What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 05:14 PM

Er - yeah, WLD, which ones actually existed then?

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Suffet
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 05:29 PM

Greetings:

Once again, there are many examples of non-melodic music. Hasn't anyone heard Billy Jonas? I've heard him once at the Clearwater Hudson River Revival and another time at the University of North Carolina in Asheville. He uses all sorts of homemade rhythm instruments (for example, drums made from empty barrels) to create very complex, multi-layered music, all without the sequence of tones that vary in pitch and duration that we call melody.

And what about Gene Krupa with his remarkable extended jazz drum solos? Or Babatunde Olatunji, the Nigerian born drummer who did the music for the Broadway production of A Raisin in the Sun? I count myself lucky to be old enough to have heard both of them live.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 05:30 PM

No: it's a different genre - one of the American genres; and certainly not one of my favourites.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 05:31 PM

"So we no longer need the folk to produce folk music, mother earth we'll do it for us?"

Wow, now I know how a pretzel must feel when it gets twisted and turned. The response I wrote was about "tone", not folk music.   Barry, did you get that job working for McCain's PR department??? :)

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 05:32 PM

"Next we'll be singing folk songs by horses & horses asses "

come to think of it, I once did a whole show on that topic! It stunk!

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 05:39 PM

I inadvertenly heard a rap song on Saturday night.I had just finished a gig,and was returning to my vehicle in a peaceful and tranquil manner.
I passed another vehicle in which the wireless had been left on:over the airwaves came this rap piece,it was good,all about Tony Blair and George Bush and their war mongering.
it was a bit like a modern talking blues,now whether its folk or not ,again I dont care a Fiddlers Fart,but it was good.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 07:40 PM

"Barry, did you get that job working for McCain's PR department"

Thanks Ron, with that type of spin, if I could land the job doing PR for the old War Wimp, I'd love to sink him.

"come to think of it, I once did a whole show on that topic! It stunk!

Horse shit???

Barry

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 08:30 PM

a folk is a rap and it is a new folk a folk is a tool and a man and women adnd girl and a boy i am a folk

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 09:17 PM

Sorry, that wasn't me--

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 11:19 AM

And in a way Nintendo is like the Copper family - a repository for all that we mean by the English traditions since Game Boy.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 06:27 AM

Have put a bit of blog on recent Boat Band rap/folk interface activity here (I hope)

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 08:11 AM

"No: it's a different genre - one of the American genres; and certainly not one of my favourites."

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? If it's American it can't be folk???????????

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 09:56 AM

A lot of posters here are wary(or hostile) to rap. We have just finished another phase of our ongoing rap collaboaration project, and you can hear another couple of samples on
Boat Band Myspace .

Highly non-threatening, and totally acoustic, these particular recordings! I-Deal's singing is a very gospelly, Meistro's rapping has no guns or ho's in it, so I'm sure folkies will find it endearing. Well, hopefully so, have a listen and tell me what you think. I have just put two new tracks up,Shallow Brown and Manchester Hornpipe, both with "rap" in the title. I won't leave them there for ever, but they should be around for a couple of months from the date of this post. I would be most grateful for any comments.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:07 AM

All very commendable, Greg - but what would Tim Westwood make of it?

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:12 AM

Hi Greg - I enjoyed both tracks. I suppose it's not really the language of rapping that puts me off - though much of it has its fair share of hos and bitches - but, in many cases, the complete absence of any melody and harmony. And I love melody and harmonies. The songs you've put up on your Myspace page are full of melody and harmony, not just drum'n bass or other backings - and the vocals are not simple monotone chants.

So, it was good stuff - but was it actually rap? (@$^£&*) :-) (Only kidding - not another debate...)

:-)

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:52 AM

Yes, I think we are working with rap, and it is rap. The blend of rapping and slow singing is identical to what is used in lots of hiphop etc music. Those acoustic tracks merely have the drum, bass and computer generated stuff stripped out(though on other tracks we are working with it all in). More importantly, the people we are working with are young urban artists who work out in the clubs DJing and rapping. They are not music teachers, they have not got degrees in Rapology Studies, they are the real deal. Very exciting stuff.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:18 AM

Greg - what prompted the idea of combining the two genres (trad./Boat Band and rap artists)? Just curious. Mmm... Boat Band with Sly and Robbie - now THAT would be a great idea.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Jayto
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:48 AM

We performed a rap song the other night in a folk/alt country setting. We did Gin and Juice by Snoop Dogg and Dr.Dre. We sung it and played guitar and mandolin with it. The crowd went through the roof. We did not come up with this arrangement though I am not trying to steal anyone's thunder lol. I played a gig with a band called the Gourds and it was an arrangement that they have of the song. Alot of people credit the jam band Fish with recording it but it wasn't Fish it was the Gourds. I think in the future some of the rap will be viewed as folk. Rage Against the Machine addressed current social issues straight forward and without pulling any punches. Tupac Shakur was another that rapped about social injustices and the good and bad of both sides of the economic and social lines. I am not a rap fan (although I do love Rage Against the Machine) but they (some of them not all) do chronicle what is going on in modern society better than most music forms that are popular today. Most of mainstream music today is worried about writing and delivering a big hook line that will sale umpteen million copies. They are more worried about the package that is delivering the hook (looks, marketability) than the actual content of the package being delivered. So I think (whether I like it or not) Rap is more of a source for social documentation than other popular forms of music today. For that reason I think rap will be the next folk. Even punk which has a reputation for social observations has failed to step up to bat. Then is you think about how many young people know the words to tons of rap songs by heart it becomes very clear to me. Remeber today's youth is tomorrows elderly that will be passing on thier way of life. I belive it will become the next folk even more. If the youth of today was around alot of folk when they were younger though that would make a big difference. Alot of times it seems that as people age they like to search out things that remind them of the past. Things that offered them happiness in thier younger days and provided them fond memories. So I think we could see some kind of resurgence on the music scene (not sure what). I know my son (he's 10) and alot of kids on their early teens around here are into 80's heavy metal instead of rap. I know that is not a saving characteristic for many on this board. My son is into folk though he has grown up listening to it from me and alot of different family members. He has a TON of friends that have grown up listening to it by always being around me and my brother playing music and listening to it. So they are aware of it and like some of the songs. I guess that is why we all have to do our parts to keep our music alive. If not Rap will take over without a doubt. I Think it is anyway but I have time to breath so I have time to fight lol.
cya
JT

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:00 PM

Will Fly: you were asking what prompted the mix. I've been exploring links between black and white music for a long time, and the evolving of African and Bahamian/Caribbean music into rap is another very interesting story. Also the traditional dance music of NW England, and how it interacted via sailing ships with other cultures since 1700. Add the explosion of dance music in Manchester in the last twenty years, link that to the fact there are seven different tunes all called Mancahster Hornpipe, and you have an idea worth pursuing. There are lots of young urabn musicians in Manchester, and they have a powerful musical culture which is evolving quickly and well-positioned to comment on the changes happening in our society. And the urban musicians, let's face it, are a bit more streety on average than most of the youngsters in the current post-revival folk scen: so you get a rather different slant on music. More "folk" in fact, perhaps?(In the old meaning of the word).
ANyway, this project, ongoing in Manchester and Liverpool, is proving very inspiring, to us in the band and to some other young musicians.