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George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music
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Subject: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Rick Fielding Date: 01 Jun 99 - 12:45 PM In the "Dirty Old Man" song thread, George the fourth's name has come up, and it got me to thinking. He's all but forgotten in most music circles these days but for over 20 years was a wonderful transitional artist bringing folk-style music to country audiences. I got to know him in the late sixties and he was truly one of the nicest people I've met in the business. Considering he'd had two "monster hits" (A Rose and a Baby Ruth, and Abilene) and several other number one country songs, he could have had quite an attitude, and nobody would have minded. Instead, he was tremendously supportive of the "folky" songwriters, and if you met him on tour, and were polite (as he was) he'd invite you to visit him in North Carolina - and he meant it! I think his son George the Fifth, is reasonably big in country circles now, but I'm afraid "New Country" never grabbed me so I'm not up to speed with the "Hat" crew. If someone ever writes a biography of this artist, they won't have to scramble for nice things to say about him. He is a class act. |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Rick Fielding Date: 01 Jun 99 - 12:49 PM Sorry, Joe kindly provided this link. clink here |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Craig Date: 02 Jun 99 - 12:56 AM If you really like George Hamilton IV, you can get all of his ABC, RCA, and every live recording of he ever did on a box set from the Bear Family. It has 5 CDs and a nice biography of him by Dale Vinicur. Craig |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Art Thieme Date: 02 Jun 99 - 10:09 AM Does anyone know why "ABILENE" isn't credited to Bob Gibson by Hamilton?? Bob told me he'd most assuradly written the song. Art |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Frank of Toledo Date: 03 Jun 99 - 12:42 AM I don't know the answer as to why Bob Gibson wasn't credited with authorship by George Hamilton the IVth, "Stops Along The Way", and he accepts authorship. Yet I have a 1971 LP recorded by John D. Loudermilk and he takes credit for writing the song. Jerry Silverman's 1975 Folk Song Encyclopedia Volume II has no author at all for the song.. As ol' Sherlock would ""very interesting"" |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Frank of Toledo Date: 03 Jun 99 - 12:56 AM Sorry but something happened on my last message. Somehow this ancient equipment of mine seems to want to leave a line out when it damn well pleases. What I meant to say is I have an early 80's tape of Bob Gibson called Stops Along The Way and Abilene is on it and Bob takes credit for the song. And I guess the rest is self explanatory. If I confused everybody it doesn't surprise me, knowing my lack of computer know'how (no'how)....... |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Rick Fielding Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:40 AM The story I heard was that Gibson had been singing it and when it became a hit for George the 4th, he said "hey wait a minute!" and claimed part authorship. Loudermilk is more likely George's source. Anybody know what the first recording was? |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Pete Peterson Date: 03 Jun 99 - 12:17 PM If it's the same song I have an vinyl recording of erik Darling singing it back in 1957 or so; long our of print Elektra record. Like so many other things wonder if Woody Guthried had a hand in this one. Should the title of the thread be changed? PETE |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Rick Fielding Date: 03 Jun 99 - 03:58 PM Thats the earliest that I've heard of, but Woody would never have used the 1 , 3 , 4 , 1 , 2 , 5 , 1,4,1,5. chord structure. Bet we find that the words are pretty traditional though. Now Bob Gibson LIVED with that chord structure! |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Sandy Paton Date: 03 Jun 99 - 09:05 PM I dunno, folks. Gibson told me the same thing he told Art, namely that the song was his. Wouldn't be the first time a songmaker was invited to share his composer credits (and royalties) with the artist that made the "hit" of a song he/she had written. Look at the credits for "Thunder Road" (from the movie). Do you really believe that Robert Mitchum co-wrote the song that he sang in the film? I'm dubious! Sandy (the cynic) |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: DonMeixner Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:26 PM Sandy, I believe it. Anyone who knows "Whats for dinner." ought to be able to write a part of a song. After all, Mitchum also put out a calypso album. Do you really believe that the Governor of some western state wrote You Are My Sunshine and another Governor was once a pro wrestler? If those two are possible then Bob Mitchum could have written a song. Hedy Lamar holds a patent for a sonic direction finder and arming device that was used on torpedos in WWII. Ronald Reagan was a president. Its an amazing world. Don |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Sandy Paton Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:43 PM Okay, Don. I believe everything but that part about "Ronald Reagan was a president." There's some doubt in my mind about that one. I think he was asleep and dreaming through the whole thing. Actually, I have a lot of respect for Mitchum. He was married and loyal to one woman throughout his career, a rarity anywhere, but especially in Hollywood. Makes me think he was a real person, not just an actor. He also sang in Night of the Hunter, didn't he? And Joe Hickerson learned the hymn and recorded it for us. I take back my unkind remark about Thunder Road. Ya got me! A repentant Sandy |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Dale Rose Date: 04 Jun 99 - 12:11 AM Actually it would be governor of some Southern state, specifically Louisiana. Jimmie Davis wrote You Are My Sunshine in 1940 and served two terms as governor, in 1944 and again in 1960. He is 99 years old now; his birthday is September 11. I don't suppose that the song hurt his campaigning, though.
As to disputed authorship, look at the Oklahoma Hills story. Who wrote it depends on who you were talking to, but it seems pretty clear that both Woody Guthrie and Jack Guthrie should share the credit, as they (eventually)did the royalties. |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Rick Fielding Date: 04 Jun 99 - 02:34 AM Now, I gotta tell you, I'm a huge fan of Bob Gibson, but if you've got any of his albums, take a look at the number of songs he claimed he "wrote"! I won't go into details, but Bob made "Paul Cambell" the Lomaxes and the Kingston Trio look like pikers, when it came to "fastest copyright in the west". |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Jun 99 - 03:10 AM Hey Sandy, I think you're wrong about Reagan. During the years in question Reagan was COMATOSE...it was all of US who were "asleep and dreaming." BTW, there's a connector highway in Cincinnati that doesn't really go anywhere that the city father's appropriately named after Reagan. catspaw |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Rick Fielding Date: 04 Jun 99 - 03:15 AM Catspaw. Go to bed...have a good sleep...and when you wake up Jesse (the bawdy) Ventura will be president. |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Jun 99 - 03:23 AM Rick, were it not for it's potential TRUTH, there would be nothing funny about your post. Sign of a true comic genius and I salute you!!!! catspaw |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Rick Fielding Date: 04 Jun 99 - 03:34 AM Wait a minute Paw, are you tellin' me that wrestlin...I mean politics is fake?! I'm a settin here in snowshoe land jest a waiting for Prez-a-mania 14, whut's gonna be held at the Whitehousedome in 2008. Lookin' fer that Jesse guy to body slam that Clinton gal right back to Roosha whar she come from. In the mean time, guess I gots to be satisfied with that Gore Vidal guy and the Bushwhacker. Have to tell you though I like that Dole's pineapples! |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Ferrara Date: 04 Jun 99 - 07:17 AM Umm, I apologize for changing the subject, but I want to talk about George Hamilton IV for a minute or two. Rick, I got Server Not Responsing when I clinked on your link. I'll try again later, but was very disappointed. I loved GH IV in the 50's. My favorite song was "The Long Black Veil," which I've never liked as well by anyone else. Flip side was "The Cheat." [Help -- have I got that right? I've always thought it was GH IV that sang it but my memory for such things was poor even before I could claim to be a senior.] Can't remember the names of my other favorites, I was hoping to find them on the linked site, although I remember "A Rose and a Baby Ruth." I remember listening to his songs on the radio while I did my homework. |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Jun 99 - 09:40 AM Ya' got a lot of damn gall there Rita...changing the subject back to the original thread topic...like, where do you come off talkin' about GHIV when we were just gettin' goin' on the merits "Nasty Newt, the Rotten Peach" vs. "Demented Dan, the Indiana Quail," and a potential preliminary bout!!! How dare you counteract thread creep (or the more blatant "Thread Blown All to Hell) in such a simple and effective way? catspaw |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: JOField Date: 04 Jun 99 - 01:39 PM Is not "A Rose and A Baby Ruth" one of the sappiest, coolest, most surreal, tunes of the Golden Age of Rock 'n Roll? I used to interject it into country jams -- sounds great with steel. James. P.S. -- Anybody remember another weird, infectious tune called "Poco Loco"? |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Rick Fielding Date: 04 Jun 99 - 02:54 PM Hi Ferarra, please excuse. Even at half speed Catspaw is a terrible influence on me. I tried the clicky and it worked, so good luck. George also recorded "Break My Mind" which became one of my faves as well. I got to know him a bit and he was totally nice! Hank Snow? well, he wasn't so nice! |
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Subject: RE: Fresh From: Mark Clark Date: 21 Jan 02 - 11:40 PM |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Cappuccino Date: 22 Jan 02 - 10:51 AM This was started by Rock, a year and a half ago, mentioning that 'if someone wrote his biography...' Well, they have - an English guy, Paul Davis. It's a bit over-respectful, if you know what I mean, but it's OK. I meet George IV every five years or so, and my favourite recollection is being at a country music festival where my press pass didn't let me backstage, and wondering how I could get round there. A big limo pulled up and George poked his head out and said 'Hi, Ian - like a lift backstage?' And the very security guys who had barred my way saluted respectfully...!!! He's a lovely guy. - Ian B |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Cappuccino Date: 22 Jan 02 - 10:52 AM "Rock"???? Sorry Rick - turned you into a TV wrestler by mistake. Apologies from a safe distance. - Ian |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Gary T Date: 22 Jan 02 - 10:57 AM The first version of Joni Mitchell's "The Urge For Going" that I heard was George's, and he did a fine job of it. I wouldn't mind having a recording of it. |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Rick Fielding Date: 22 Jan 02 - 11:17 AM No problem Ian. "Rock" is better than "Dick". Upon further reflection, George IV is still one of the nicest folks I've met in the business. I wish him well. Rock |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Art Thieme Date: 22 Jan 02 - 11:55 AM Bob Gibson recorded "Abilene" on Riverside Records in 1959. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Dharmabum Date: 22 Jan 02 - 12:58 PM George Hamilton IV will be playing at Merlefest in April www.merlefest.org. I'm looking forward to seeing him. DB. |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Mr Red Date: 22 Jan 02 - 12:59 PM In the twenties & Thirties the singer invariably got half royalites on the premise of poularising the song. AND didn't Sammy Cahn pay Nat King Cole $50K to record and popularise a song that Nat admitted later he would have paid himself for the opportunity of setting the benchmark on such a prize. Can't remeber the Title but it was a biggie. Itsa funny old music world innit? Why someone will claim, not only the authorship, but the arrangement thereof of Scarborough Fair next. |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: GUEST,Frogmore Date: 22 Jan 02 - 01:06 PM George Hamilton IV came down to Florida to help us with a memorial concert for our friend Gamble Rogers in 1991. What a nice guy. It was easy to understand why they had been good friends. They are both the finest example of "Souhern Gentleman" you could ever hope to find. |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: BlueFolk Date: 22 Jan 02 - 02:32 PM Yes, George did the very first version of Break My Mind, in 1967. Before Jerry Lee, Glen C or Flyin' B. Brothers. And Mitchum... he really was a creative, multi talented man. Besides the Calypso LP he did a nice 'That Man' LP in the late 60s. Rereleased on Bear. And Abilene... been a lot said about it, but ended up as a Brown/Gibson/Loudermilk/Stanton song, check the BMI. |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: tar_heel Date: 22 Jan 02 - 04:02 PM george is my dear friend...we grew up together picking guitars and singing together in out own little band during out high school days during the 50's in winston-salem,n.c..i was 13 years old and playing my guitar and singing on a locale radio station,WAIR...heck,i knew maybe 5 or 6 good chords,but i could play and sing the country songs of that time and a lot of old gospel songs...one saturday morning this young kid,2 years younger than me,showed up at the radio station to see and hear me play and sing live...in person...we became good friends from that day on...i taught him his first chords on the guitar...was his lead guitar picker in our band of high school buddies...picked and sang for groups,kids at the childrens home and on the first tv station to come on the air in town in 1953,wtob-tv...george got his first taste of country gospel music from my family(the 2nd generation of HEMRICK FAMILY SINGERS)which was my mom,dad,older sister and me....we sang mostly the old time gospel songs and many of the Chuck Wagon Gang,gospel songs.... george,to this day will tell you this same story anytime you ask him...certainly one of the great country artist of our time and a true dear friend...chuck hemrick...aka,tar_heel |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Cappuccino Date: 22 Jan 02 - 04:37 PM George was doing a tour of churches here in England a couple of years ago, and came to our little town, so not only did we get the chance to meet up again, but I was asked to introduce him on stage, which was nice. He has one very wonderful habit - whenever you see him, you can be sure that sometime in the following months, you will get a letter or a note from somewhere in the world, just saying 'hello'. - IanB |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: late 'n short 2 Date: 23 Jan 02 - 02:09 PM I've tried every search I know for the chords to "A Rose and a Baby Ruth" without any success. Can someone post them? Thanks |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: GUEST Date: 23 Jan 02 - 09:13 PM Aye Rick,Geordie is Mr Nice personified.Unfortunately ah thocht his singin wis awfy "blah",an' that wee guitar made him look like a comedy act.Him an' Pat Boone wid hae mad a fine duo.In fact add Anne Murray an' ye could hae a grand snooze. ljc |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: GUEST,little john cameron Date: 23 Jan 02 - 09:16 PM Oops, ah forgot mah name. ljc |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Ebbie Date: 24 Jan 02 - 12:04 AM Are we talking about George Hamilton, IV? TAN George? The one who went out with LBJ's daughter, Lucie? The actor? Who'd a thunk. Eb |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Art Thieme Date: 24 Jan 02 - 12:53 AM Johm D.--- You and all the others have a right to "Abilene"---however it happened. I was just standing in for my old friend, Bob Gibson, taking his role 'cause he ain't here now to tell it. John, you are a fine songwriter--and we are truly glad to have you participating at our little forum. It's a fun place to hang out and to get and give our insights--and our oversights as well. "ABILENE" is a grand song and folks all over love it. Thanks for your part in it. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Mark Clark Date: 24 Jan 02 - 01:34 AM You can listen to “A Rose and a Baby Ruth” here in RealAudio. I found the lyrics posted here. And this is purported to be a tab of Marilyn Manson's cover of the song. - Mark
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: CRANKY YANKEE Date: 24 Jan 02 - 04:55 AM I played rythm guitar for #IV when he did the "Brooklyn Paramount", Aln Freed Live Sjhow in 1957. My Manager was Freed's Son in Law. I was in the Air Force stationed at Suffolk County AFB on Long Island (N.Y.) and I took some annual leave. I met III and Mrs. III and you know what? the whole family is gracious, without being condescending and very friendly. It was some experience, Fats Domino, Screaming Jay Hawkins, The Moonglows, etc. Nice folks, all. I recorded "If You Don't Know" (the other side of "A Rose and A Baby Ruth) for George Martin when he was A&R for Parlophone, when I was stationed in England. The "A" side was another "B" side, "So You Think You've Got Troubles" the other side of Marvin Rainwater's "Gonna Find Me A Bluebird. We sold more of them in Holland and Scandinavia than we did in the U.K. because the line, "MY DOCTOR TOLD ME NOT TO SMOKE, DRINK NOTHING STRONGER THAN A COKE" got right by everyone (including Sir George) and the B.B.C. couldn't play it on the radio. (Mentions a commercial product) and the only play we got was the "Pirate" radio stations anchored outside the UK's territorial waters, and a TV. "lip Syn" for ITV's "Music Parade" The had me sitting in a bathtub, out on the ocean, my guitar plugged into the fucet, dressed in my "neon" cowboy suit" and stetson hat, When I'd finished, they "Special Effected" the bathtub spinning around and sinking.
It's on my CD "Spanning the Decades" |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: SINSULL Date: 24 Jan 02 - 09:44 PM I sang "A Rose And A Baby Ruth" at the Getaway. No one even recalled it but Allan. And it was at that point that David kicked me out of his bed. The song? Or my rendition? The Brooklyn Paramount, Cranky Yankee? I gave out flyers for Murray the K (circa 1960)and got free passes and a backstage tour. Murray himself stepped on my toe. Somewhere I still have my "Submarine Race Watchers Membership Card". Then came Joan Baez and Bob Dylan... |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Ebbie Date: 25 Jan 02 - 02:04 PM Well. I am properly humbled. I looked up George Hamilton and there are two of them, no relation to each other. (I was thinking that the TAN one used the IV designation- obviously I have heard the CANADIAN one mentioned.) Chalk it up to my ignorance, please. Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: GUEST,Andy Date: 25 Jan 02 - 07:39 PM I remember a Bob Gibson show where he said, "When I wrote 'Abilene', I had never been there - it was just easy to rhyme. Since then I've been to Abilene (Texas). It's NOT the prettiest town I've ever seen." |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: GUEST,CJB Date: 16 Aug 16 - 04:56 AM He appeared regularly on Country Meets Folk - I've just digitised a reel-reel tape of CMF featuring George Hamilton 4th & The Lorne Gibson Trio. |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: GUEST,John from "Elsie`s Band" Date: 16 Aug 16 - 05:54 AM There is, to this day, a portrait of George in "The Queens Arms", Cowden Pound, Kent, signed with loving comments to the late "Elsie Maynard", ex-tenant of this pub. He held her in high regard and there a many photos of George performing in a local church to be seen at "Elsie`s". |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: GUEST Date: 16 Aug 16 - 05:54 AM Elvis was guilty of 'co-writing' some of his hits. Also, the John Philips composition "Kokomo" was 'co-written by the Beach Boys. Stephen Foster had never seen the Swanee River before he wroote about it. Apparently, he was in a train going over a bridge years later and a friend said "Hey Stephen, there's that river you wrote about" |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 16 Aug 16 - 03:48 PM Yes John, I well remember Elsie telling me at great length what a wonderful singer and overall good egg was George Hamilton IV - never met him, but Elsie's opinion is god enough for me.... see you in a few weeks, John |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: PHJim Date: 17 Aug 16 - 12:21 AM During the "Joseph Scriven weekend in Port Hope, Ontario a few years back, George, who was a fan of Joseph Scriven's song, "What A Friend We Have In Jesus", came to Port Hope to perform. He had no problem mixing with the local musicians and even mentioned our performance and had a little story to tell about how Joseph Scriven would have appreciated one of the songs we sang. During the Great Folk Scare, there was a truly awful movie called "Hootenanny Hoot" that took advantage of the popularity of folk music and must have been written by someone who had very little knowledge about the genre. They somehow talked several folkies into performing in the movie and most of them managed to embarrass themselves thoroughly. Johnny Cash and Judy Henske were pretty bad, but George sang a great Abilene, without having to goof around for the story line. Check out Hootenanny Hoot on YouTube for some pretty bad acting, but some good singing from George. |
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Subject: RE: George Hamilton IV, a friend of folk music From: Megan L Date: 17 Aug 16 - 04:28 AM Sadly George passed away on 17th September 2014 I met him many times on his visits to the UK. On his last visit to Orkney he was bemoaning young Georges taste in music that modern pop stuff, at the end of the evening I gave him a hug and told him I remembered a young pop fellow singing 'a rose and a baby ruth' He was as warm and genuine of stage as he was on a truly gentle man. |
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