recording fretted dulcimer

Subject: recording fretted dulcimer
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 01:01 PM

I want to make a recording of my dulcimer playing for a friend. This will be a one-time thing, just for him. I plan to use my tape deck to do the recording and then copy the tape onto a CD. Yes, I know that is old technology! But I own it all and it works.

The instument is a fretted-lap-mountain-Appalachian dulcimer, the one with many names. Not a hammered dulcimer. I use a thumbpick, so the tone is crisp.

How far away should I have the microphone from the dulcimer? How can I minimize tiny noises from the instrument while getting a good tone? Any tips will be appreciated.

I already know about turning off things in the house (fridge, a/c, cuckoo clock) to minimize hiss.

Subject: RE: recording fretted dulcimer
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 02:55 PM

I've only done a little hobbyist-type recording so a more experienced person might give better suggestions, but here are a couple of thoughts:

1. use the best-quality microphones you can beg, borrow, or steal, that you can make work with your system. (there are adaptors if you have a plug of one size & a socket of a different size). When you say "tape deck", I don't know if it's a multi-track recording deck or a standard cassette player with one or two jacks for microphones.

2. If possible, use at least 2 mics

3. Putting the mics close to the instrument will give you the strongest signal to override the noise of the tape. However that means the mic will only pick up sounds from one part of the instrument, and a mountain dulcimer emits sound from a large area. That's why multiple mics are better.

4. Play around with mic placement and angles to get the best possible sound. As a starting point, try one mic aimed at where the strings are being strummed, and another aimed about halfway along the soundbox, about a foot away, both mics angled about 45 degrees from perpendicular to the soundboard. Play with angles as well as distance - most mics are somewhat directional and you can use this to emphasize or reduce certain sounds.

5. If you're stuck with only one mic, you might need to back it farther away to capture the sound from the whole instrument. Maybe 4-6 feet? But then you'll pick up all the other noises in the room, and the signal going onto the tape might not be strong enough.

Good luck! Getting a faithful recording of a quiet acoustic instrument is quite a challenge.

Subject: RE: recording fretted dulcimer
From: GUEST,highlandman at work
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 03:19 PM

(First try at answering went into the cyberdump.)

The mountain dulcimer hits you with a double whammy when recording: it is very soft, but the sound doesn't bloom until you get about 3 feet away from it.
So my suggestion is to try recording, with the mic about 4 feet back, in a small, live room. Like (no kidding!) the loo.
If that's too much organic reverb, try moving to a stairway, or maybe drape some blankets over the tub to damp it down a little.
You probably won't be happy with all direct sound, like you'd get from close-miking or in a soft-furnished room like a bedroom or living room. You'll want at least a little room ambience (not just stray noise, I mean the subtle echoes and frequency tweaking the room does to the sound).
Experiment. Good luck!
-Glenn
PS don't forget to turn off the #@*! phone. :-(

Subject: RE: recording fretted dulcimer
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 06:02 PM

Thanks, Glenn and Val.

When I say tape deck, I mean a thing that has two reels and one plug for a mic (1/4 inch.) It has Dolby B and C and something called CompuCal which I don't understand, even after reading the manual. The manual tells how to turn it on but doesn't say what it does.

Fortunately, we don't have carpeting and drapes are minimal, so our rooms are 'live.' The loo is simply too far away - on another floor.

That's a good tip about the phone.

I think I'll start with the mic about 3 feet away. I like the term 'bloom.' Get too close to the dulcimer, and you hear more than you want to.

Subject: RE: recording fretted dulcimer
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 09:56 PM

leenia,

Although I have a little experience with reel to reel (the time spent in the pub doesn't count!) the very basics of recording apply no matter what the recording device is

1) all recording devices make external noise - or at least the operators do - which is why the pros stick all that stuff in another room! :-) so you need to try and distance the gadget acoustically from the source being recorded. that a very general statement - on purpose...

2) while the actual mics WILL affect the sound, and WHERE they are placed does also, if you are restricted by funds or whatever, keep trying with what you have for the best you can get - make a note of it and stick to that.

3) you can get mics with a 'long throw' or intended to be used at a distance and ignore much other ambient sound - these are usually called 'unidirectional' mics - other mices are intended for 'close up' use. If the instrument is best sounding form a distance, consider one of these, but they do intentionally have a narrow band or 'cone', so you may in fact lose some input from other parts of the instrument.

4) most recording devices make 'internal noise' eg reel to reel tapes can have hiss - it helps to use a fairly new tape or one wiped properly.

5) phones, doorbells, other residents in the house, cats, etc. can 'interfere'.... :-)

Keep trying things - and it can help if you make brief written notes - eg 3 ft - 45 deg above to left - old battered brown mic - input level set at 3, treble cut -2 (etc) - bathroom tub stuffed with towels, etc...

This way if you chance on something that works well, you have some notes to start with in 3 years time... :-)

Remember - Don't Fret!

oh... ah...   :-E|

Subject: RE: recording fretted dulcimer
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 10:17 PM

So far I have found that a distance of three feet is far better than one foot, something that surprises me. I have also changed the strings.

I have a mic with a very long cord, and I'll stretch that cord out. That is a good tip - to keep the mic far away from the tape deck.

Since the friend I am recording for misses all of us (he had to move away,) I would not mind it if the cat mewed. It will be part of the sound of home.

I bought some new tapes. To my sorrow, I have a couple pieces by a whole gang of people which were ruined because an old tape stretched and warped.

My biggest problem is the hum of the computer. It has a hinky on-off switch, and I don't want to turn it off. Does anybody know what are the best sound-absorbing materials around the house?

Subject: RE: recording fretted dulcimer
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 10:51 PM

You can buy special acoustical tiles, and we have a place called "Clark Rubber" in Oz that sells that black foam in the tiles with all the little pyramids on, that works - to a degree - only 6 feet of lead insulates entirely - well almost... some computer speciality shops and car radio shops sell such materials to line PC cases and car doors.

It things are bright and shiny, they reflect sound (wood, ceramic tiles, etc) - if rough surfaced they can ablate the sound by reflecting less. Carpets, cloth curtains, the heavier fabric, the better... for a start.

You might try a large cardboard box with carpet or foam (sound absorbing type, not the 'heat insulating' type) etc inside around the recorder itself - but do NOT obstruct the air flow!

If you want a few 'home sounds' like cats, etc, then that is ok and your choice - but the RSPCA probably disapproves of the needle trick.... :-)

In that case, you mainly want to try to hide the actual recorder noise, hums, etc, and you could try to put some 'walls' or cloth or carpet around the instrument too to cut down sound reflected in various directions, which will cut back the liveliness of the room - easier and cheaper than carpeting the whole room.

Subject: RE: recording fretted dulcimer
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 11:23 AM

Okay. Now here's a whole nother issue.

For the first time in my life, I find myself wishing to use a remote. My tape deck is brand new, and a remote came with it. (It is not mentioned in the owner's manual.)

So there I am in the dining room, a nice live room with wood floor and no drapes. The tape deck and its buttons are 14 feet away in the living rooj. Wouldn't it be nice if, when I finish a song, I could use the remote to pause the tape deck?

unf'ly, only two buttons on the remote do anything. One button turns the receiver on and off, and the volume control turns the sound up and down. There are buttons for controlling Decks A and B on the tape deck, but those buttons do nothing. The tape deck has a little red Standby light, which I believe means that it is capable of responding to a remote, but it isn't responding.

Is there some trick to making a remote work? Remember, I have never bothered with one before.

Strangely enough, when we hooked up the new tape deck acc to mfcr's instructions, we have to put the tuner on CD to hear a tape. That might be a factor.

Don't tell me to ask JVC, the mfcr. They will just send me an e-mail message telling me to read my manual.

Subject: RE: recording fretted dulcimer
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:38 AM

Is the remote a corded plug in or a wireless type? the latter will require a battery.

It might be infra red so you will need a clear line of sight - and that may have a limit.

If you can quote us the exact model number, we may be able to find a copy of the manual (if you can't find yours) on the web.

"have to put the tuner on CD to hear a tape"

That doesn't quite make sense...

Subject: RE: recording fretted dulcimer
From: dulcimerjohn
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 12:31 PM

I made a recording for dulcimer players magazine a couple years ago. I just used a stick on mic as well as recording it with a pro for a couple hours. Cost a couple hundred bucks but the sound quality is very nice. I think with digital stuff you can do it yoursolf these days but I'm not up on all the tech stuff. Lata, j

Subject: RE: recording fretted dulcimer
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 02:48 AM

Hi, Foolstroope. It's got a battery. It manages to turn the receiver on and off, so it's functioning.

have to put the tuner on CD to hear a tape"

That doesn't quite make sense...

Right. Maybe I should call it the receiver. You know, the thing that sends the music to the speakers. You can push a button on it for CD, TAPE 1 PHONO, AM, FM or TAPE 2. Strangely enough, the new tape deck doesn't put out any sound unless the receiver is on CD. (The previous deck, by the same company, worked on TAPE 1.)

I was hoping there was a little button or something that everybody knows about but me that would solve the problem of the remote, but apparently there is not.

I think we are seeing another example of the deterioration of consumer goods which has been going on for so long. There's no cure.
There never was a manual, either. (I may see if I can find one online. Thanks for the tip.)
=======
Hello, dulcimerjohn. Nice to hear from you. I'm glad to hear from somebody else who plays, but I don't want to spend much money on this. Actually, the recording has been going rather well, although the end product is quiet. Still, it works if the volume is turned up high.

I decided to do the playing in my front hallway. Nothing but wood and plaster, so it's a nice, live environment.

As for digital recording, I sent for a DVD on that topic recommended by a 'catter. I felt that the DVD only told half of what I needed to know. And it sure seemed to take a lot of equipment.

Subject: RE: recording fretted dulcimer
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 11:51 AM

"...have to put the tuner on CD..."

Sounds to me like the output wires from your tape deck are plugged into the wrong input jacks on your tuner/amp.

Hopefully the input jacks are clearly labeled. If not, and if you have the manual from your tuner/amp, perhaps it will have a diagram of which plug-ins are associated with which menu choice.