EFDSS and competitions

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: Peace
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 02:45 PM

Man, I love you guys--in a platonic one-guy-to-another kinda way.

I'd love to read what you both write about music in Ireland. I have never had the pleasure of visiting the British Isles or IRELAND. (And I apologize to you both, because I really didn't know you were in Ireland.)

I have heard Dick Miles work on the i'net, and I was wondering if there is a place to hear Jim. Truthfully, I have heard much about Jim Carroll (all good) and I want to hear the man himself. Despite me being a songwriter, I was and still am aware of the importance of traditional music in the lives of us all. It seems to mean something different in every country, and I can live with that. But I want to hear singers of the songs in a way with which they are comfortable presenting themselves.

If I insulted either of you two, I hereby apologize. If I haven't, save the apology until such time as I do. (That's a joke. I'm a colonial!) And thank you both very much for 'letting it go'.

Bruce

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 03:01 PM

Bruce,
No insult taken.
I don't sing any more I collect and research, but I really don't want to get into a pissing competition with Dick as to whose work is the most important - it really doesn't matter (and maybe we'd have to call in an adjudicator to decide!!!!)
Nuff sed that we all try to do our bit.
Dick and I have been arguing for yonks - put it down to our being stubborn old gits.
Nice to hear from you again Mick - are the dancers in your part of the world into the wigs yet; been trying to drive the thought of some of our singers competing in ringlets.
Best to you all,
Jim Carroll
PS Just one more argument and we'll quit - promise.

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 03:55 PM

Jim,I agree with you about the wigs.

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 05:17 PM

I hate those damn things, but I bought one for my daughter. The damned adjudicators seem to think that that one is not properly attired without it. We have one school that uses a very plain uniform, and doesn't dress their dancers like little mannequins. Despite the fact that their instructor is an excellent dancer, choreographer, and teacher; despite the fact that their kids can step it out with the best of them, and technically are right on the mark, they lose points for not wearing certain things. Much of the dance scene here is about getting yourself noticed, so the thinking goes, so the kids all seek the edge in these useless accoutrements.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:52 AM

It is not a question of importance.,we work in different but related fields.
Jim Carroll is a collector,his work is outside the Folk Revival.
I am a musician/singer,my living comes from the Folk Revival.
Those people[adults or children]who wish to enter musical competetions should be catered for,those who dont should not be forced.
My experience is that a large majority of competitors,enter competitions willingly.
I believe Comhaltas and any other organisation that runs competitions,should state in their rules,that the wearing of wigs is forbidden,the emphasis should be on musical content,or in the case of dance,abilty to dance.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:31 AM

"Jim Carroll is a collector,his work is outside the Folk Revival."
Cap'n - if you are going to insist on taking my name in vain!!! please, please, please try and get your facts right.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 07:41 AM

Jim and Cap'n: now, never mind the EFDSS competitions. I have been examining a map and the Boat Band schedules, and the nearest I am going to get to you gentleman in the immediate future is Sixmilebridge Festival, Co Clare, in Jan 09.A bit nearer Jim than the Cap'n, but I guess you wouldn't mind a litle hike, Dick? Anyway, I will sponsor the Pan-European Arguing Competition, we will find a suitable pub in Sixmilebridge, I'll stand you each of couple of pints to get you going, and from then on the floor's your own. I will judge the winner, and supply the prize. Costumes etc will be entirely at the discretion of the entrants, so Jim is welcome to wear a ringletted wig if he reckons it will enhance his chances, and as Cap'n Birdseye so loves that kind of thing, maybe a little green dress with leprechauns, bodhrans and Celtic knots stitched on lovingly? As '09 is a bit of a trial run, entries will be limited to Jim and the Captain. If it goes well, I may broaden it out a bit in 2010, and perhaps invite Diane Easeby and Lizzie Cornish.Not sure about suitable trans-Atlantic entrants, Gargoyle doesn't seem to be around much these days. Big Mick's a bit nimby-pimby placatory. Perhaps CarolC or Spaw?
Anyway, Jim and Dick, how about it, gentlemen?

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: Banjiman
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 07:44 AM

I'd pay to see it!

As long as Dick promises to sing a few (chosen by Jim) to soothe frayed nerves afterwards.

Great idea.

Paul

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 07:59 AM

Jim, do you collect within the folk revival?

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:14 AM

Cap'n
"Jim, do you collect within the folk revival?"
No we don't, but we were still involved right up to leaving the UK, visiting clubs and quite often taking the singers we were recording around to them for bookings.
Since then we have been involved over here, attending singing and music week-ends, both as singers and speakers - we are doing talks on Travellers at The Clare Festival of Traditional Singing and at Knockcroghery (Roscommon) later this year.
We've helped organise a number of music events here in Miltown and hope to be doing so in the near future.
Our main interest has always been, and continues to be the song revival - hence our Clare and Traveller CDs, and others we have contributed material to.
Look Cap'n
I honestly don't want these arguments with you - and I'm sure innocent bystanders enjoy them even less than I do. I find them embarrassing and totally unnecessary - but your bulldozer approach really doesn't help.
Greg and Paul,
What a great idea - as long as I get the dress and the ringlets.
Greg,
Don't know where I'll be in Jan, but would like to be at Sixmilbridge (always assuming I'm not floating face-down in a lough somewhere in Kerry!
Best to all,
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: Banjiman
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 01:13 PM

Greg,

Which set of rules will you be judging this with?

The traditional ones or the contemporary ones?

As we know (well if you don't you should!) the traditional ones date back in an unbroken line to Ethelblood the Dirger, the arguist champion of King Arthur (though clearly they have been adopted and modified by the Arguist community since then).

The contemporary ones were invented by 4 bearded chaps (with tankards) from Loughborough University Arguist club back in the 1960's .... and though accepted by the populous as "Real Arguing" some authorities (admittedly who have scoured the terraces and pubs of England looking for true arguments)   reject these rules as just not argumentative enough.

Both of these arguments end up sounding the same but the true "trad arguer" would argue that you just know which set of rules contestants are arguing to....most of us couldn't give a monkeys though.....as long as the argument is a good one.





I wished they hadn't cancelled Pickering Festival then we would be playing there, instead I'm sitting in front of the computer writing sh*te!

Paul

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 01:29 PM

I will certainly not be allowing any "contemporary" or "relevant" arguing. Strictly 1954 definition arguing only; phrases and techniques that have stood the test of time will earn bonus points. If people want to write new arguments, they can sod off as far as I am concerned.
Kicking will be allowed, eye-gouging not. Any reference to (a) horses, or (b) Ewan McColl, will earn instant disqualification.
When I give the final adjudication, I shall say "And the winner is....," and then pause for a long long time so the camera can linger on the taut and worried faces of Jim and Dick. Then I will annmounce the winner, and he will expected to jump up and down and shout a lot. The loser will be required to burst into tears.
I think this has got a lot of potential as a spectator event, better than what they normally have at Sixmilebridge Festival; in previous years it has just been a load of old timers playing fiddles and mouth organs and singing and drinking black stuff and all that malarkey. There may actually have been a bit of freelance impromptu arguing going on in some of the pubs, but nothing properly organised ,as this is going to be.

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 06:25 AM

Greg,

Chris here. Thanks for your message a while back. I haven't been ignoring you - my computer at home's been on the blink and I can't get on the mudcat at work. We're off to Ireland for 2 weeks - I'll give you a shout when we get back.

Cheers,

Chris