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Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle

GUEST,Charlie in Brooklyn 29 Jul 08 - 01:25 PM
MartinRyan 29 Jul 08 - 01:46 PM
Charley Noble 29 Jul 08 - 08:07 PM
Melissa 29 Jul 08 - 08:34 PM
Arkie 29 Jul 08 - 08:50 PM
Mark Ross 29 Jul 08 - 10:07 PM
Melissa 30 Jul 08 - 12:49 AM
Charley Noble 30 Jul 08 - 08:51 AM
Louie Roy 30 Jul 08 - 04:22 PM
katlaughing 30 Jul 08 - 04:28 PM
Mark Ross 30 Jul 08 - 04:56 PM
Arkie 30 Jul 08 - 06:09 PM
Louie Roy 30 Jul 08 - 08:18 PM
Melissa 30 Jul 08 - 08:46 PM
Arkie 31 Jul 08 - 12:42 PM
Charley Noble 31 Jul 08 - 12:56 PM
MissouriMud 31 Jul 08 - 04:42 PM
Charley Noble 31 Jul 08 - 05:08 PM
Arkie 31 Jul 08 - 07:12 PM
Stringsinger 01 Aug 08 - 04:50 PM
Charley Noble 01 Aug 08 - 06:57 PM
John Hardly 01 Aug 08 - 07:27 PM
GUEST,RSteve 12 Nov 10 - 03:46 PM
Jim Dixon 16 Nov 10 - 02:36 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: GUEST,Charlie in Brooklyn
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 01:25 PM

Hmmm, I created this same thread a few weeks ago, but it seems to have fallen inot a black hole..... Anyone know lyrics for Lost Indian, AKA Cherokee Shuffle? Thanks, fellow folkie freaks...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 01:46 PM

Hi GUESTCharlie

If you put "Indian" into the thread filter and set the time to , say, 30 days, you'll find your old thread and some others that might be of interest!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 08:07 PM

There are lyrics to "Cherokee Shuffle"?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Melissa
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 08:34 PM

the two I know with those titles don't sound anything alike...are they the same out there in the bigger world?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Arkie
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 08:50 PM

I have heard fiddlers in the Ozarks play a tune they called Lost Indian and sometimes Gone Indian. Some fiddlers would let out a whoop at a certain part of the tune. Dulcimer players coming to Mountain View, Arkansas for dulcimer contests would play the Cherokee Shuffle which did sound a bit like Lost Indian. Somewhere I heard that Bob Wills played a variation of Lost Indian called the Cherokee Shuffle, but I never checked that out. Other than the whoop, I have heard no lyrics to the tune. Would be interested if any turn up.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Mark Ross
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 10:07 PM

LOST INDIAN is the first part of CHEROKEE SHUFFLE played in D. CHEROKEE SHUFFLE is a two part tune played in A.

Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Melissa
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 12:49 AM

Thanks..I guess my ears work differently.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 08:51 AM

Mark-

That makes sense to me.

Stan Rogers used "Cherokee Shuffle for his song "Watching the Apples Grow." I also used the tune for singing "Hastings Mill" by C. Fox Smith which you can listen to at my website: Click here for lyrics and MP3 Sample!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Louie Roy
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:22 PM

Lost Indian is a fiddle tune and it doesn't sound anything like Cherokee Shuffle. I can send a midi of the Lost Indian to anyone who wants it but I don't know how to put it on Mudcat.Maybe one of you with the knowledge can put it on Mudcat.One other thing I been backing up this tune for many years and I never ever heard any words


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:28 PM

Charley, nicely done on that. Thanks for the link.

Louie, if you send it to Joe Offer or MMario, I think one of them could put it up. Joe is at joe@mudcat.org I'd like to hear you playing it!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Mark Ross
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:56 PM

Louie,
CHEROKEE SHUFFLE is a fiddle tune also. Now, titles bounce around all the time. for instance there is a song WIND THAT SHAKES THE BARLEY, and there is a different and distinct fiddle tune by that name as well.


Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Arkie
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 06:09 PM

There are apparently a number of tunes identified by the title "Lost Indian". The Fiddler's Companion refers to a family of tunes related by tuning rather then melodic similarities and has eight listings for the tune. I am not sure what that means.

Fiddler's Companion

Another source indicated that the "A" parts of Lost Indian and Cherokee Shuffle was similar but that the "B" parts of the tunes differed and that the two were played in different keys as Mark has mentioned.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Louie Roy
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 08:18 PM

I'll send Joe Offer a modi of the tune I know Lost Indian and maybe he'll post it


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Melissa
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 08:46 PM

Louie Roy, I'd appreciate a copy of your version too--it'll be interesting to see if it's like the one I'm familiar with.

thanks,
Melissa


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Arkie
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:42 PM

Here is a condensed recap of what The Fiddler's Companion has to say about Cherokee Shuffle.

CHEROKEE SHUFFLE.
Banjo player Howard Bursen, fiddler Kerry Blech and others, identify the tune as a West Coast version of "Lonesome Indian," and that it was derived from fiddler Tommy Magness who recorded the "Indian" tune in the 1930's. Tommy Jackson is generally credited with transforming Magness's "Lonesome Indian" (in the key of 'D') into "Cherokee Shuffle" (in the key of 'A'). Jackson also added a distinctive second part. The Magness tune also became known as "Lost Indian" subsequently, says Kerry Blech, especially among older fiddlers in North Carolina and Virginia—"Some of these folks even took Tommy Jackson's addition and stuck it onto the Magness tune, after transposing, of course." To add to the confusion between the two tunes, "Cherokee Shuffle" is also sometimes played in the key of 'D', although the 'A' version seems more common. Regarding the form of the tune, there appears to be two versions of "Cherokee Suffle" in current circulation, one "square" (with the 'A' and 'B' parts the same length) and one not. Along with "Lonesome Indian" (or "Lost Indian [3]" as it is sometimes known), the melody "Colored Aristocracy" bears some resemblance to "Cherokee Shuffle."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:56 PM

Arkie-

Thanks for the info.

For contradances we always performed "Colored Aristocracy" and "Cherokee Shuffle" together as a medley, because they seemed to belong to the same family.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: MissouriMud
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 04:42 PM

There are several fiddle tunes called Lost Indian that are nothing like Cherokee Shuffle (John Hartford did one such from Ed Hailey I think) and there is one fiddle tune called Lost Indian that is almost exactly like the A part of Cherokee Shuffle (except commonly played in D) with a B part that is similar to the A but an octave above. However the two tunes are frequently confused and I have heard Lost Indian played (and recorded) in D with its A and B parts followed by the B part of Cherokee Shuffle - except substituting the 4 chord for the relative minors that are often used in Cherokee Shuffle. I've also seen Cherokee Shuffle played and recorded in D - so I guess there is no end to the variations. As for words - I've never heard anything except John Hartford's stream of conscious vocal accompaniment, which I doubt had any origin prior to him.

Charlie - when you medlify Colored Aristocracy and Cherokee Shuffle do you do both in G? Normally we play them separately with Colored Aristocracy in G and the Cherokee Shuffle in A but I have played Cherokee Shuffle in G.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 05:08 PM

We certainly played Colored Aristocracy in G and I believe we did Cherokee Shuffle in G as well. I play banjo and that worked well for me (capoed up two and playing F chords with the 2nd string tuned up half a tone).

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Arkie
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 07:12 PM

If this link works you can go to Emusic.com and listen to 30 second samples of 15 versions of Lost Indian. I did not listen to all but did try most of them. I recognized three as being versions of the tune I know as Lost Indian.

Lost Indian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 04:50 PM

If you can play a tune in D, you can play it in A or G or C. The idea that a tune
has to be in a certain key doesn't make sense.

Of course it's harder for fiddlers to do flat keys but some can.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 06:57 PM

Frank-

Very true but we always chased the lead fiddle.

Most of our contradance tunes were in D, G, or A which is why I capoed and turned my banjo in a way that I could switch rapidly between those keys.

I'm no longer playing with a contradance band but I'm still playing most of my tunes out of the "mountain model" tuning.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: John Hardly
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 07:27 PM

Another echo here that Lost Indian is virtually the same melody as Cherokee Shuffle, except that there is a four-beat measure in the B part in Cherokee Shuffle that is not in Lost Indian.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: GUEST,RSteve
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:46 PM

LOL...just googled for Lost Indian lyrics and only found this old thread.   

FYI...I just listened to a cd from a book called Ozarks Fiddle Music where I heard Lost Indian played and sang (commented he had known it for 50 yrs).   The melody was not like the Lost Indian and Cherokee Shuffle I know (two different tunes, similar A part, but in LI, B part played an octave up).   It reminded me of Rye Whiskey.   The singer did a verse or two in what I would call a falsetto whoop.   Couldnt make out the words well so I googled...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: lost indian / cherokee shuffle
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 02:36 PM

RSteve: Can you tell us the name of the performer on that CD you're referring to? Just in case his recording can be found somewhere else.

Allmusic.com lists 114 recordings of LOST INDIAN. It would be rather tedious to play them all to try to find one that has lyrics.


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