BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets

Subject: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Rowan
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 07:29 PM

This morning's (Oz time) news carried this info. Industry wallies described Starbucks' success in the US as due to entering a market where the coffee had been substandard "poorly roasted and overbrewed" with a much improved product but that, in Oz there was already a well entrenched cafe scene with excellent coffee and Starbucks had not coped; its coffee was substandard by comparison and its marketting model was inadequate.

A bit harsh, even if true.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 07:35 PM

Within a 5 or 6 miles span along the boulevard or just off it are 7 Starbucks outlets, either free standing or inside of food markets. Would you like to have 3 or 4 of them sent lock, stock and barrel to your world, Rowan?

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 08:19 PM

Regarding your kind offer John on the Sunset Coast

To quote my young goddaughter

"Thank you, but No!"

:-)


In Brisbane several good individual outlets closed - I just might suspect some jiggery pokery regarding leases and offered higher rates - and were replaced by Starbucks.

The best thing they sell is their HUGE mug... that size unobtainable anywhere else, but overpriced, in my opinion, as is all their product range :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 08:29 PM

There are huge mugs nearly everywhere in The US. Most Gas stations have them.

Is Brisbane one of the cities that will still have Starbucks? I read that they will be eliminated from all but three cities.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 08:50 PM

"There are huge mugs nearly everywhere in The US"

Yes, most Aussies will accept that baLD statement :-) , but the drinking vessels of that capacity are rarely available in Australia. :-)

"Is Brisbane one of the cities that will still have Starbucks"

from

Twenty-three stores will remain open in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.

Brisbane (capital of Queensland!) IS considered a 'major city' these days, especially on the East Coast, and since EXPO 88, has grown massively in size of population!

How dare you insult my home!!!!!!...   :-P


"in Oz there was already a well entrenched cafe scene with excellent coffee"

After WWII, a large number of Greeks and Italians settled here, and introduced that sort of scene here - Aussie coffee drinkers enjoy some of the finest coffee in the world (and we are growing great coffee locally too!) and our baristas are highly rained and well respected world wide. Our Supermarket shelves have many dozens of varieties of coffee, of many international brands (including Italian, Greek, Turkish, etc), in all forms, powder, granules (MOCCONA!), liquid, unground and ground beans, coffe & chicory essence, coffee flavoured condensed milk, etc. So if you are expected to pay several bucks for a coffe, you want GOOD! Starbucks 'pseudo coffee in 97 combinations' is crap - honestly! You can buy better instant in the supermarkets!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Gulliver
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 09:07 PM

Foulstroupe wrote our baristas are highly rained and well respected

Our baristas in Dublin are certainly rained upon--you'd expect that with Ireland's climate, but not in sunny Australia!

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Rowan
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 10:39 PM

Would you like to have 3 or 4 of them?

Well, John, as Robin quoted his goddaughter "Thanks, but no thanks."

My only experience of Starbucks was in Columbia, SC. I had been living in Columbia for about six months in 1992 and had noticed that the only place where one could get a decent coffee was in the cafe next to the cinema that showed the art films. When I revisited a friend there (to whom I'd been conversing about the Oz scene) I was taken to Starbucks to check it out.

Now, I'm the sort of person who avoids Macdonald's like the plague, preferring various forms of local variety wherever I go, rather than uniformity and conformity so, while I recognised the Starbucks offering as an improvement on the more frequent versions of coffee I'd experienced in the US, Starbucks couldn't quite come up to the standard I can get in Armidale. Where we don't have a Starbucks but do have a similar franchise called "Gloria Jeans"; I don't usually frequent that franchise either.

Cheers, Rowan.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 10:46 PM

Frankly, I just can't get over the fact that anybody would pay that much for a cup of coffee. The only times I've ever patronized them was in airports when they were the only game in town.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 10:53 PM

Jeepers!

I was just telling you that there are plenty of big mugs here.

Insulting your home?!?! I simply asked if it was one of the three cities. To me the availability of overpriced coffee or indeed the lack of it says nothing about the quality or size of a city.

I have ambiguous feelings about Starbucks.

I've been to Starbucks exactly three times and twice left with the distinct impression that the barista was hitting on me. Not only do I question that level of familiarity with the customers. I also seriously question the men's taste, and their eyesight.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 11:00 PM

I won't pay that much for coffee...in packages OR mixed up with funny flavors added. The daughter of a friend works at Starbucks sometimes, and has brought me several gifts of beans from her discount allowance, and it was decent coffee...but I can get decent coffee much cheaper.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Rowan
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 11:04 PM

Don't worry about it Jack. Sydneysiders and Melbournians take it for granted that they're the centre of the Oz universe, while sandgropers and croweaters (Perth and Adelaide, respectively) acknowledge there's no point even trying to compete with such attitude. And everyone forgets Hobart; the whole state drops off many maps!

But bananabenders (Brisbane, especially) seem to believe that there ought to be an automatic acknowledgement that they're "here", so to speak, and they get a bit twitchy when they feel that acknowledgement hasn't been given.

And, yeah! While there are big mugs everywhere, those for drinking coffee in Oz are much smaller than the routine in the US. If you used a US mug to drink Oz coffee you'd likely be spaced out for a few days.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: John O'L
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:58 AM

About a year ago my wife and I were at Darling Harbour starving (long story) and found a Starbucks where, for $7 each we could have had a coffee and a doughnut that had been all day sitting in the glass shelf going stale. We were both reluctant to pay that much money for crap like that, but not knowing our way around that area, were thinking seriously about forking out when I spotted a sign outside a pub just accross the street. "Counter Lunch Specials". We both got a beautiful steak smothered in mushroom sauce with mashed potato and a cup of coffee for $6 each.

And you say the're closing down.! Who'd have thought ...

I suppose that one at Darling Harbour will be one of the 23 to stay open. The pub's probably closed down.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: JennieG
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 03:47 AM

According to the story in the local rag, each time a new $tarbucks opens it is not far from an already existing outlet - and draws 25-30% of business away from the existing outlet. Wouldn't that say to anyone with half a brain that there are too many outlets???

Rowan, I don't patronise Gloria Jean's because, apart from the fact that I don't really like their coffee, the blokes who own it are Hillsong churchgoers and a percentage (quite a large one if I remember rightly - article in Business Review Weekly 2-3 years ago) goes directly to Hillsong. For the non-Sydneysiders among us, Hillsong is a huge pentacostal church, quite wealthy now and getting wealthier by the minute.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 03:55 AM

John O'L

Pub 'Counter Lunches' are one of the great Aussie traditions still hanging in there - about $10-12 for a main - smaller meals for under $10 - a 'seafood basket' for under $20. Yearsz ago you could get obne for $2-5...

"Darling Harbour will be one of the 23 to stay open"

Well since they are shutting the 'underperforming ones' - I'd say that you may not have been the only one to by pass them, what with all the local competition!

"I was just telling you that there are plenty of big mugs here."

ROFL! Airforce flying today! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Helen
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:51 AM

Guest,Jack the Sailor, it may help you to know that a "mug" is an Oz word for someone who is a fool, or easily duped. So Foolestroupe was probably making a sly dig at Americans when he replied to your comment:

"There are huge mugs nearly everywhere in The US"

Yes, most Aussies will accept that baLD statement :-) , but the drinking vessels of that capacity are rarely available in Australia. :-)


Sorry to spoil your fun, Robin.


I have had a couple of coffees from Gloria Jean's but only because my previous co-workers went there because it was just across the road from work. BTW, the first coffee I had there was free, so I didn't complain about that. I don't frequent that franchise either, because there are so many good cafés everywhere.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 05:14 AM

Yes Helen, I figured it was something like that. I was playing along.

If I may make an observation... In my opinion, by that definition, anywhere there is a solvent Starbucks there must be plenty of big mugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 11:33 AM

Frankly, I just can't get over the fact that anybody would pay that much for a cup of coffee. The only times I've ever patronized them was in airports when they were the only game in town.

I always feel like I'm being held hostage when I'm stuck in the airport and have only expensive food and drink choices. Or in a hotel in a part of town I don't know and it is an off hour for going out to find food. That is when the Starbucks might get my business.

I had a wonderful orange and cranberry scone at one of the restaurants in Seattle, and went home and worked out the recipe, so it isn't completely without merit. But I don't drink coffee, I am a tea drinker, and when you get a 16 ounce cup of water they offer you two tea bags. I always pocket one for later. I suppose this averages out to a more affordable cup of tea. :)

News was out yesterday that in the US two "casual dining" chains closed and will immediately liquidate (Chapter 7 bankruptcy). Bennigan's and Steak and Ale. They arose in the Dallas area, and each restaurant has at least 60 employees, who are not only out of a job as of yesterday, but who won't get their last paycheck (they stand in line with all of the other creditors). The franchises will continue, at least for a while, but there is no telling how they stand up versus the company restaurants. Dallas Morning News story.

I can't afford to eat out often, though I try to take my son out for a meal at least once a month so we can enjoy a visit and no one has to clear the table and cook or do dishes that evening. We have eaten in the casual dining venues, though our preference is generally for the local restaurants that may have three or four locations, but are family-owned.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 11:55 AM

>>They arose in the Dallas area, and each restaurant has at least 60 employees, who are not only out of a job as of yesterday, but who won't get their last paycheck (they stand in line with all of the other creditors)<<

That sucks. The labor laws in Texas apparently need improvement.

One thing that bugs me is the prices at normally cheap restaurants at airports. But remember that a big part of the price is fees paid to the airport. Its part of the price of using the airport.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: heric
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 12:05 PM

When Starbucks had fallen almost 60% to $22.00 in November, I persuaded my young son to transfer his $1,000 savings into it, to teach him a lesson about investing. Man, did he get a lesson, having now lost 30% of his money in a few months. (And the theory was that strong overseas openings would counter-act the US saturation. . . . )

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Gulliver
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 12:57 PM

Stilly River Sage wrote: I always feel like I'm being held hostage when I'm stuck in the airport and have only expensive food and drink choices.

A few years ago, after having experienced flight delays on a number of occasions and having had to buy the expensive and not particularly good food available at the airport, I added "food for the journey" to my packing list. Just like the Italian families, for example, who wouldn't dream of taking a train journey without their packed lunch. I've a small thermos flask for a cup or two of coffee as well.

I've only been to Starbucks twice, in Seoul, where we spent the local equivalent of a day's pay for our drinks, and NY, where they twice got our order wrong.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:04 PM

If you're in the U.S. I don't think you can take that liquid on the planes now in your thermos, they would take the thermos away from you. You can only take small amounts of liquid on (like lotions, medicines, etc.) in bottles in a plastic bag. I haven't flown in quite a while, so don't quote me on this. Haven't they banned drink cups, bottles, and other containers?

The restaurant headquarters are in Texas but they are a national chain, and anyone anywhere who works for them will go unpaid for the work this week. It isn't a Texas law thing, it's a creditors lining up in bankruptcy court thing. Employees are at the bottom of the list after the big guys--banks and food providers, utility bills, etc.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Gulliver
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:35 PM

In Europe it's the same, no liquid on planes, so I have to make sure the thermos is empty, then I can take it. Then I use it for cold (or hot, depending on the climate) drinks at my destination. Don

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 02:00 PM

There are both a Steak & Ale and a Bennigan's within a half-mile or so from my workplace. I've never gone to either for lunch, but I'm sure that many people working in this area do so.

Appleby's (another similar chain) should pick up a lot of new business. They're in the area, too, sharing a parking lot with a Barnes & Noble bookstore which has a (guess what?) Starbucks inside.

I work out in the suburbs (as you may already have concluded), where nothing is local and seemingly every business catering to the public is a cookie-cutter duplicate of hundreds of other members of the same chain.

I'm fortunate to live in town, in a city with many very excellent one-of-a-kind locally-owned eateries, from expensive haute-cuisine showplaces to very modest neighborhood joints.

Commuting is great. Morning and evening, I'm usualy able to sail along unobstructed while watching the folks on the other side of the road, heading in the opposite direction, sit and crawl in stop-and-go traffic.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Rowan
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 07:50 PM

Thanks for the 'heads up' on Gloria Jean's, JennieG, but Armidale is singularly blessed for alternatives that do great coffee and I take my business to non-franchised cafes; Caffiends is a Saturday morning ritual but there's also the Goldfish Bowl.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanaity
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 03:57 PM

I was horrified!!!...I got so mad, that I threw my Martini across the swimming pool!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 04:30 PM

good one Sanaity !!!!!   LOL !!!

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:00 PM

Applebee's is another one that is "at risk," I read somewhere. It is owned by the IHOP folks, I think. They have a rather busy menu, but I've had some good hamburgers and excellent baked fish meals there. My daughter lives in a college town so sometimes if friends come to visit us we all drive up there to take she and her boyfriend to lunch, and Applebee's has worked out pretty well.

The one that surprised me some months back was Denny's--they also had a couple of good baked fish dishes, served with rice and veggies that weren't swimming in salt and butter.

I should have mentioned earlier that one place I DO go into Starbuck's is in New York City. I will buy a pastry or a cup of tea as a thank you--they have clean bathrooms. That is sometimes difficult to find in the Big Apple. Same reason I'll go into MacDonald's in NYC. I'll eat my meals in the good local restaurants, but I'll buy something small when I go in to use the loo.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:19 AM

"I will buy a pastry or a cup of tea as a thank you--they have clean bathrooms"

You can take a bath at Starbucks in NYC? Jeez, that's service! In the UK they only have toilets with a small hand-basin, so you can take a leak and wash your hands (and face if you're so inclined), but the bathing has to wait till you get home.

There's nothing I like better than a cup o'tea whilst lying in the bath. :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:34 AM

Separated by a common language once again. . .

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Helen
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 02:46 AM

SRS,

A couple of decades ago I read a book called The Apple of My Eye by Helene Hanff (the author of 84 Charing Cross Rd) . She wrote it as a resident of New York, but looking at NY as a tourist/visitor would see it. She said in the book that we take for granted the place we live in and don't make the time to see the really interesting sights and attractions.

She also wrote at length about how difficult it is in NY to find clean loos and washrooms. A very enjoyable book. I may never get to NY but after I read it I started making a point of seeing the local attractions here.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 11:42 PM

There is a book available for New York City now called Where to Go, and that is what it catalogs.

I loved the story of 84 Charing Cross Road. I saw the film and have had my eye out for the book.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 12:21 AM

"There is a book available for New York City now called Where to Go,"

When people ask Aussies "Where to go" - we tell 'em!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closes 61 of 84 Oz outlets
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 12:27 AM

When people ask Canadians, we ask them what they like, then politely give directions.