The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 12:22 PM

"I have friends who express their beliefs, generally down at the pub, in their cups, spouting all sorts of racist bullshit" (IB)...I don't have friends like that, I'm not like that and, at the singarounds that we've both been at, IB, I've never heard any of that.
By the way, I've just noticed on the news an English swimmer being welcomed home with Union Jack waving, but Scots doing the same for a Scottish cyclist with Scottish flags - God's speed to the latter: I hate imperialism.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 12:32 PM

Ya' know this thread just gets nutsier all the time.

I can't tell for the life of me what Wavy really means because he never answers diddly squat with any kind of answer. The "Master Baiter" guy sort of tried for him but the Wavy Dude can't seem to figure any of it out himself.

The Insane One does an admirable job holding Wav's feet to the fire but he can't seem to really anser him either. I gave up questioning him for lack of straight answers.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: mandotim
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 01:19 PM

Hi Wav. Many of your interlocutors seem to struggle with your tendency to avoid straight questions, so I thought I'd ask a couple that only require numbers as answers.
First simple question WAV; since it can easily be demonstrated that all cultures (however isolated) have contributions from others, for how many years does a cultural artefact (using Schein and/or Hofstede's definition of 'artefact', which I am sure your degree in humanities covered) have to be practised before it becomes indigenous, in your view? Simple, numerical answer please, to the nearest 10 years or so, without referring to your website; I've checked that, and it doesn't answer the question. This isn't a mischievous question, so please don't treat it as such; I am genuinely trying to understand the basis of your belief in a homogenous, static and identifiable 'English' culture.
Second simple question; what percentage of a population have to practise a cultural artefact before you would accept that it is part of the culture of the whole population? (For example, what percentage of the people would have to sing folk songs?) Again, a simple numerical answer will be fine.
Thanks.
Best wishes
Tim

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 02:00 PM

In short, self-published, no editors involved, no payment. Beyond that, posting stuff on web sites and reading stuff at poetry readings and poetry slams.

I know a number of self-proclaimed poets who go that circuit. They never send their stuff in to established publishers (book publishers, even poetry magazines). Why not? I'm pretty sure it's because their egos can't handle a possibly negative evaluation by a professional editor. Without that, they can go on living in their dream world of being an undiscovered genius, but right up there with Yeats or Dickinson.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: irishenglish
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 02:14 PM

True, true Don. And on the other side of it, you have people like a friend of mine, who has, in essence, self published his own poetry in small book form, who is an amazing, amazing talent. He's so shy about it though, that he doesn't seem to be able to submit anything to any major sources. At best, maybe a few small time poetry publications, but nothing major, even though it should be, even despite the urgings of several of his friends.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 05:56 AM

wav,might I suggest you read Kipling.
your poetry lacks rhythym.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 06:17 AM

Don - I'm sure you and yours are also aware, but may need reminding, that most poetry publishers would only publish a collection of 230 poems, or more, if it was a "best of", or suchlike, from one or more of those "big names" that you and CB just mentioned. Also, you just ignored the journals (written and oral) I gave you; further, my aim was, and my preference still is, to be an amateaur folkie and poet - but, yes, if offered payment, I'd take it: I'm obliged to as I'm presently unemployed from manaufacturing or other work.
Mandotim - your questions may not be "mischievous", or derived from oneupmanship, but I think they are far from "simple"...I'm knocking, sorry.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:55 PM

A collection of 230 poems or more? I know of no such thing, WAV. There are dozens, hundreds, thousands of books of around thirty or so poems published by big name publishers. And there are piles of small poetry magazines to be found in bookstores and well-stocked magazine stands, most of which are quarterlies, but many monthly publications.

I'm not a poet myself (I am a published—and paid—prose writer, however), but I am no stranger to the world of poetry. Within the past couple of years, I have been part of a group called "Miscellany" (Nancy Quensé, guitarist and singer, Isla Ross, violinist, my wife Barbara, singer and keyboardist, and myself, singer and guitarist) that provides background and incidental music for readings by award-winning poet Jana Harris. She has seven books of poems published along with a couple of novels, one of which was a Book of the Month Club alternate selection.

Jana has a large group of slides appropriate to her poems, and Nancy has researched music and songs, and although Jana does most of the reading, she has us all read (I read the "guy" poems). Between the readings, the slides, and the music, the presentations are somewhat reminiscent of the Ken Burns television specials. We've given these presentations at a number of bookstores and at book fairs. No presentations right now because Jana is busy writing another thematic group of poems for a new collection. There is the possibility that in the near future, we may give the presentation on television.

I have also recorded several poems for local poet and old friend Richard Gibbons for a planned web site and audio CDs of his poems. He has a few other people recording his poems as well, because he wants a variety of voices in addition to his own. He is also a published poet and writer, and is best known here on Mudcat as having written "Sully's Pail," a song recorded by Tom Paxton.

If you are unemployed, I'm quite sure it would be nice to have a few checks coming in, especially royalty checks, where the work has been done, but the checks just keep on coming.

There are plenty of publishers out there if you are courageous enough to submit your poetry to the scrutiny of editors.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 06:19 AM

"A collection of 230 poems or more? I know of no such thing, WAV. There are dozens, hundreds, thousands of books of around thirty or so poems published by big name publishers. And there are piles of small poetry magazines to be found in bookstores and well-stocked magazine stands, most of which are quarterlies, but many monthly publications." (Don)...agreed - and, thus, if I do wish to keep the 230 together, and turn pro., probably the best thing to do would be to take my master copy, and my home-made version, to a printer, rather than a publisher. I've made 10s of copies (gifted out, as above) using an inexpensive portable photocopier - the problem is, though, the replacement cartridges for it are very expensive.
Some, as you say, like to add other media to their poems; whilst others think the challenge is to say things WITHIN the framework of just poems - I'm with the latter, but some of my myspace (Top) friends have experimented with the former.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Stu
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 07:44 AM

There's quite an industry in self-publishing amongst poets and artists alike these days, and not all of it's shite.

Ian Hamilton-Finlay's Wild Hawthorn Press published many small cards and fold-outs that otherwise would never have seen the light of day and certainly deserved too, and I have a signed copy of an early self-published collection by Ian McMillian, the Bard of Barnsley.

I've self-published some of my concrete poetry, and actually installed (well, placed on a chair) a small folded piece in Tate Liverpool long before Banksy hit upon the idea of adding his own work to galleries guerrilla-style. It lasted about 20 mins before a security guard found it and screwed it up, and was 'enjoyed' by several visitors (it was next to a rather fine Picasso as I remember).

I'm completely in favour of it, however questionable the results. Before Waterstone's became the corporate shifting-house of crap it is now the poetry section carried a fair amount of self-published stuff. I always look out for it when I'm in Manchester as some can be good, and if it's not at least someone's taken the trouble to out their work out and invited critique.

Publish and be damned!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 01:50 PM

I'm all in favor of guerilla publishing and guerilla recording. This takes it out of the hands of the Arbiters of Taste and Determiners of What Sells—big name publishers and recording companies, who won't publish or issue anything unless it has strong "best-seller" or "gold record" potential, which often means its appeal is to the lowest common denominator.

But these are not the only publishers there are. At least in my area, there are several smaller local publishing companies that, nevertheless, are big enough to have national distributorships, and depending upon the nature of the work, there are the university presses. The book I'm currently working on (about the folk music "scene" in the Pacific Northwest from the early 1950s to the present) is aimed at one of these. And most of my articles on folk music have been submitted to and published in a local music magazine.

I see little point in working on a piece of writing only to have it languish in a bottom desk drawer or reside in bits and bytes on a disk, and although self-publishing is always an option, this is certainly not the first route I would take. There are some real gems out there that have been self-published. But there is an incredible amount of dross, and all too often, to find the gems, you have to wade knee-deep through garbage. The imprimatur of an editor, or at the very least, a second pair of fairly objective eyes can help to separate the worthwhile from the rubbish and save potential readers a lot of time and aggravation.

####

To do justice to Jana Harris (pronounced "YAH-nah"), and lest there be any misunderstanding of my comments regarding our recent "multi-media" presentations, Jana's poems were not written with multi-media in mind. They stand alone.

I believe it was Nancy Quensé's idea to add the multi-media aspects to them, since some of the collections of Jana's poems tend to be thematic. For many of her poems (and novels) Jana drew much of her inspiration from the diaries and journals of pioneer women in the Westward Movement in the late 1800s. Nancy (a Pacific Northwest folk singer with concerts and television to her credit) researched both folk and popular songs of the period, and Jana was able to find many old photographs that she had made into slides.

In addition to her poetry and novels, Jana teaches Creative Writing in the English Department at the University of Washington. She was also editor and founder of Switched-on Gutenberg, one of the first electronic poetry journals of the English-speaking world. Her seventh book of poems, The Dust of Everyday Life, an epic concerning the lives of forgotten Northwest pioneers, (Sasquatch) won the 1998 Andres Berger Award. Her second novel, The Pearl of Ruby City was released from St. Martin's Press. In 2001, she won a Pushcart Prize for poetry. Jana is a member of the National Book Critics Circle, PEN, Poetry Society of America, and AWP.   Recently she has been writer-in-residence at the University of Wyoming, St. Catherine's College (St. Paul, MN), and Washington State University. Her eighth collection of poetry, We Never Speak of It, Idaho-Wyoming Poems, 1889 (Ontario), was published in 2003 and nominated for the Kingsley Tufts Award. She won a Reader's Choice Award in poetry from Prairie Schooner in 2004.

She's also a charming person and it's been a privilege to work with her.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 06:33 PM

Walky, what Don is politely suggesting is that you ain't got the balls to send your stuff to a legit publisher out in the real world. If you haven't submitted to a professional editor for a critique, your collection and life's work isn't worth spit except as wasted bandwidth.

You don't have to try to get it published but why not find out what a pro's opinion might be. After all, you're not going to go that way so find out if you could. Can't hurt can it? I know you have balls but it may be that one is the size of a pea and the other is real tiny.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 12:05 AM

But...how can we possibly know that unless official measurements are taken under controlled lab conditions, and the results published in a reputable science periodical?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 03:54 AM

(Go play with your peas in your kitty litter, Catspaw.)

THE WEEKLY WALKABOUT, E.G.

Poem 33 of 230: TO CARE AND SHARE

(This is also 1 of my 17 "Chants from Walkabouts" CD.)

Within sunny California
    (Just a wisp of smog arriba),
Not far from L.A's Chinatown,
    A rich driver looks, with a frown,
At a beggar sat on a crate:
    Gaunt, it seems long since she last ate.
As the driver stops at the light,
    The beggar moves her hand upright.
But, though the cap clasped holds small cash,
    The rich man shares not his large stash.

Yet, to all it is plain to see,
This beggar lives in poverty.
But, like a fifth of humankind,
Little help this woman will find.
For too selfish the wealthy fare
To help the poor - to care and share.

And, in Tijuana, Mexico,
    Another has no place to go -
It's an hour before midnight,
    And he's curled outside a shopping site:
"He is sick," I'm told, passing by;
    "Him and the system," I reply.
Then my hand to my pocket goes
    For all my coins - sixteen pesos.
Enough for three meals - beans, rice;
    But, for a home, it won't suffice.

Yet, to all it is plain to see,
This pauper dwells in poverty.
But, like one fifth of humankind,
Small help this sick hombre will find.
'Cause too competitive most fare
To change the scheme - to care and share.

In Bangkok and Barcelona,
    Bombay, Melbourne and Manila -
Such woes exist all round the globe:
    Poor food, poor clothes and no abode.
These are Maslov's essential needs,

    And they can be met - with good deeds.
The beggars all could leave the street -
    With some kit for body and feet.
But voted leaders cut the aid
    From which much housing could be made.

Yet, to all it is plain to see,
Too many live in poverty.
But, from the rest of humankind,
A lack of help they tend to find.
For too greedy most snug-ones fare
To fix the need - to care and share.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 11:36 AM

Now there's one you definitely need to send in.................oh yeah.....that's a piece of work........................................................or something..............................................

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 01:07 PM

...thanks heaps, Spaw!.............and there's not meant to be a space between the "Maslov" and the "good deeds" lines, by the way.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Joseph P
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 04:42 AM

'of all the trades in England a-begging is the best' or so they say!!

Have you pndered on the thought that most of the money given directly to beggars goes on drugs and alcohol?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 11:07 AM

It was Abraham Maslow, not Maslov, who developed a theory on the heirarchy of needs.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: olddude
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 11:30 AM

:-(
   I have a headache

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 01:54 PM

"Have you pondered on the thought that most of the money given directly to beggars goes on drugs and alcohol?"

Yes, I have, but what worries me more is where the money given to bankers and politicians goes... ;-)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 01:57 PM

I'm getting tired of trying to lead people out of the wilderness. I'm gonna go have a beer!

Moses

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 02:16 PM

After your beer Don, or Ruth, could you confirm that it is pronounced "MaZloV" - if not I'll have to change it on my CD, as well as my site and book (and thanks for the correction, Ruth).

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 02:31 PM

Abraham Maslow

Re:   pronunciation, the consensus seems to be "Mas-low" rather than "Mas-lov."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 02:37 PM

That was all I was able to find, but further checking might be in order. I would assume that it might have been pronounced "Mas-lov" orginally in the "old country," but since he was born in the United States (one of those pesky immigrant families), it's quite likely that the pronunciation was Anglicised (or Americanised) to "Mas-low."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 02:42 PM

When I learned the theory (and indeed taught it at university level) it was pronounced Maslow. But that was in the UK.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 02:57 PM

Caesar was pronounced "Kye-sar" by the Romans. (similar to the German word Kaiser).

Jesus name was most likely pronounced "Yeshua" in his own time.

These things all change as they move from place to place.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:08 AM

Yeah.........I spell my name JABLONSKI but pronounce it JOE.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Joseph P
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 04:31 AM

Was Maslow the boke that got pissed before and during his public seminars? Or was that Herzberg? It was one of the business related theorists anyway.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Stu
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 05:28 AM

Featherstonehaugh = Fanshaw

Cholmondley = Chumley

I love these!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 05:47 AM

..if we put Maslov into Google, it does come up with Maslow; and if we put "pronounce Maslow" into the same place, it gives at least 4 opinions; and, to a tennis fan, both the spelling and the pronunciation still seem questionable - Dmitry TursunoV is among many players of Russian origin (he has actually lived in America for several years) with a V rather than a W in their name...for what it's worth, I intend to check my local library's encyclopedia before making changes.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Joseph P
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 06:53 AM

So his name was Maslow? So why not change 'Maslov' to 'Maslow'? on phonetic grounds?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:16 AM

His name was Maslow, WAV, no matter how you decide to pronounce it.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:20 AM

Do you know what the funny thing is? I pointed out this rather minor factual innacuracy to see whether WAV would argue the toss - just to see whether,as I suspect, he really cannot bear to be wrong about ANYTHING.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:50 AM

...if you look, Ruth, I'm not the only one still questioning this matter (as I say, I began thinking of the Russian tennis players I konw of) but, after my visit to the local library, I probably will change it to Maslow, as you say.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: s&r
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:17 PM

Just another indefensible clanger WAV - just accept it's Maslow. He's not a Russian tennis player.

Do you think essential needs is a tautology?

And who needs poor food, poor clothes and no abode?

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:55 PM

...I'm into tennis, S&R, but go through composers or any other Russians you may know of and there are many Vs, rather than Ws, yes?...Was his family name changed at some point from Maslov to Maslow..?...And, speaking of Vs, I'm a tad surprised Volgadon hasn't posted on this matter..?...But, either way, as I say, I'm going to check in the library before making changes.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: s&r
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:15 PM

There is no W in the Russian alphabet. Maslow was American. The pronunciation is Maslow.

Isaac Asimov chose to transliterate his name to end with a V. Maslow didn't.

The terminal consonant in these names in Russian is a labiodental voiced fricative. The pronunciation can vary from between close to a V to close to a W. It depends on the closeness of the lips to the teeth.

Russian Alphabet

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:18 PM

WAV,You seem an affable cove.
I find your views on immigration, nonsensical.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:58 PM

Because some of the "Conclusions" in my "Walkabouts: travels and conclusions in verse" are heavily against the status quo, CB, I tried some introductory, frank, blank verse, in "0 - 19," to try and let people know "where I'm coming from" (here).
And, as much as I enjoyed visiting Ireland, I, in turn, find it hard to understand why you and your repertoire left England..?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:11 PM

No, Captain Birdseye. You don't find them, nonsensical. You find them nonsensical.

(It's so much fun being a pedant....) ;-)

Do, you, follow, me?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:15 PM

"And, as much as I enjoyed visiting Ireland, I, in turn, find it hard to understand why you and your repertoire left England..? "

Because he wanted to? Because it made him happy? For the same reasons that I and my lack of repertoire left new Jersey?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: olddude
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:19 PM

Spaw
Sick headache got any aspirin?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:37 PM

Perhaps he left England to get away from Olive Whatnoll. He would not be the first to have done so.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:38 PM

...my headaches, OD, are nearly always caused by low sleep-hours...but then there's the Maslov/ws, who left W-less Russia (thanks Stu) for (V AND W) America and, it seems, became Maslows!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:48 PM

I don't think this is an episode of Who Do You Think You Are...no matter how many generations ago his family may or may not have changed the spelling of their name, or how many Russian tennis players it takes to change a light bulb, it doesn't change the fact that you misspelt it.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 04:05 PM

...I wonder if he liked VW..?..I certainly enjoyed his 9th symphony on The Proms the other night.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 06:39 AM

THE WEEKLY WALKABOUT, E.G.

Poem 54 of 230: HOBSON'S CHOICE

During a day trip to Cambridge,
    My uncle showed the confined space
That left punters no choice to face -
    Using Hobson's trade of carriage.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:21 AM

Further to Maslow, above, I just made a check of 2 library encyclopedias: one gave no mention; and the other spelt it as Maslow, and gave the pronunciation as MaZlO - thus, shortly I'll change my sites and my recording.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:18 PM

Germanic language currently pronounces the letters V & W different to English... seems Old English was closer to modern German...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:46 AM

THE WEEKLY WALKAOUT, E.G.

Poem 149 of 230: FOR BETTER OR WORSE

Largely due to America,
    English - to use Italian -
Is now the world's lingua franca,
    Where, it seems, it once was Latin;
But, while brogues are a good thing,
    I doubt American spelling.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com