WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival

Subject: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Aug 08 - 05:17 AM

2008 WVA – Winfield Acoustic Music Festival
Officially the 37th year

Time is growing short, and I'm not packed yet.
[I copied that from last year's report]

In reverse order of happening - last first.

Official Festival Dates: September 17 – 21, 2008 (Wed thru Sun)

The official festival is when all the hired guns get there and put on their acts, and the hobby and craft people are set up to sell their stuff to pay the mortgages. A few music vendors bring their really high priced stuff – good place to look them over if you can look rich enough.

Landrush September 11, 2008 (approximately 07:00)

All campers must exit the campground and re-enter in lineup order as part of, or after, landrush to try to get their favored campsites and electrical and water hookups as needed. When you get to camp after landrush, you're "at the festival" even though it doesn't start for about a week. (The sole discernible purpose of this exercise is to tear up your camping gear in the hope that you won't come back next year, and to avoid the requirement for anyone associated with organizing the festival having to actually do any organizing associated with those who camp, but it's sort of a "tradition," I guess.)

Lineup 07:00 September 4, 2008

The WVA takes over the fairground and you're "allowed" to line up for the big Landrush. No permanent setup – it's just to get in line and wait, but the pickin' sort of gets started pretty regularly then. The OFFICIAL WVA announcement is that nobody is allowed to arrive before this time and that ALL CAMPERS must enter throught the back gate after 07:00 on this date.

Based on past experience, if you actually do arrive at this time, the "locals" (and some not so local, but who know the local back alleys) will have blocked all the public roads to the entrance to allow their "friends" from the pre-lineup (and elsewhere) to enter ahead of "the public" so you can expect about 300 – 400 campers to be in line ahead of you.

Pre-Lineup: 07:00 am 21 August 2008

Unofficially, you can camp in the RV park for 14 consecutive days, if the grounds haven't been reserved by someone. So far as is known, the campground will be open this year, but there are no guarantees. Since this happens before the festival assn "takes possession" they WILL NOT provide any information. In the early years of the festival, by "gentlemen's agreement" people lined up in fairly nice order during this period and proceeded to the official Lineup in good order. REFUSAL of the festival organizers to talk to the fairground people, or perhaps refusal by the fairground people to cooperate, has led to a "competitive" attitude on the part of some, with results that I find "annoying" but that some of the competitors seem to enjoy.

While posted park rules state that any "camping unit" left unattended for more than 24 hours will be impounded and removed, by tradition, for this festival, you may mark your "place in line" with a small brick, any hunk of junk, or an old T-shirt staked to the ground (all used last year), and may leave it unattended until Lineup day, as long as your "marker" has a "camping sticker" attached showing that you paid to camp.

It is, in fact, something of a handicap to actually be present in line as for those of us who require "medical provisions" securing an electrical connection during this period invariably (six years straight now) will result in "diversion" to a "more convenient location" some 50 to 100 "places" after your actual time of arrival. Since in past years approximately 30 – 50 campers have actually "camped" in line (of about 400 "spaces reserved" in line) the campground pickin' is irregular during this time, but some of it is pretty good, and you get more time to get acquainted with the folk who are there.

BUT DO CHECK THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE FOR LAST-MINUTE CHANGES.

For Reference: Previous Threads:

Winfield 2007 WVA Festival (36th year)12-16 Sept (first 50 of 105 posts)
Winfield (35th Annual) 2006 WVA Festival (first 50 posts, of 75)
Winfield (WVA) 2005
Winfield (WVA) Festival 2004

The Official website: Walnut Valley Festival. Check here for the lists of performers, contests, and schedules.

The "unofficial" site where all the good stuff is: Don Shorock's Unofficial WVA – Pickers' Paradise

Far too many pictures from past years on Lin's site at http://waterhole.smugmug.com/.
(Several other camps, and some mudcatters, have websites – see the WVA and/or Pickers' Paradise for links, or perhaps some of our people will add links here to their braggin' spaces.)

With less than three weeks to finish packing and get down there, my time is short; but with any luck we'll manage to get in. If all goes as hoped, "Thumper" (our camper's brand name, which is unique and well known) will be in the "Pecan Grove" for the festival.

Stop by and say "Howdy" if you get a chance.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: WyoWoman
Date: 03 Aug 08 - 12:22 PM

Hi, John--

I won't be able to attend -- again! -- but two members of my band will, and I'm sure they'll stop by and pick a few with you.

--WyoWoman

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Aug 08 - 10:51 PM

One more year...can't get back. :(

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 12:27 AM

Two replies.

Two gorgeous gals.

Both "waiting another year" and hoping I'll be too old to make it again next time.

(sniff) (sob) (whine)

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 12:34 AM

"Next year in 'Jerusalem'" I hope....

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:10 PM

Damn, John, if you keep running off gorgeous gals at this rate I'll be forced to bring my own...again. More later.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 11:19 PM

I wonder how I'd have dealt with the 'land rush' situation if I'd stayed in Wichita. I'm not real keen on spending 3-4 WEEKS elbowing my way into a situation when the object is supposedly fun & sharing.
I guess I'll just meditate on the great memories of the first 10 years...and a couple more.

Y'all take it easy now...

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:54 AM

The Land Rush and all the lineups aren't really a problem if you're young and healthy enough to get by without 1.) an electrical hookup, and 2.) easy access to water.

A secondary reason for going through the miseries would be if you are part of an "established camp." If a group wants/needs to camp together, and especially if they have a preferred place, a sufficient percentage of their people have to "get there first" to stake out the site.

I find it "astonishing" (in lieu of more appropriate but possibly offensive words?) that WVA awards "best campsite" trophies, but 35 years into doing this offers NO WAY that a camp can be assured of being able to setup their campsite in any appropriate place. Some (a couple of dozen) of the camps have very elaborate "setups" involving multi-K$ in "community" equipment, and can find themselves with no appropriate place to set up.

In our case, an electrical hookup is mandatory if we are to be at the festival. Lin requires insulin (3 or 4 different kinds) that must be refrigerated. When it's >$100 per bottle, and when undetected spoilage can be fatal, relying on ice chests is NOT AN OPTION. She also requires a mobility scooter if she's to be able to get more than about 100' from our site, which means frequent recharging of batteries. I'm supposed to use an oxygen concentrator while sleeping, which requires electrical power for four or five hours per day, at least. (I should be using a scooter to get around the campground, according to my doctors, but I can't figure out how to get another one in the van.)

If I'm not one of the first 40 through the gate at landrush - to the Pecan Grove - we will NOT (legally) have a hookup and will not be able to stay. This means, usually, being in about the first 250 total in the lineup, and there will be at least that many rocks, tarps, tree limbs, inoperable utility trailers, etc., unattended but with "camping permits" in the pre-pre-lineup on the first "legal" day when you can enter for the "Pre-lineup."

If you are part of a group that can secure their area, you probably - if you camp light and don't need electricity - can come in and be "squeezed in" at almost any time, without doing the lineup and landrush. That depends largely on how friendly your camp is, and how many "rules" the group is willing to break.

If you don't need the electrical hookup, you can bring a (small-to-medium) tent in at anytime, and can find a place to camp.

Water connections, via "community" garden hoses, frequently are extended far beyond where the electricity goes, although the pressure may be almost undetectable at the down-end; and (if we're there) I can probably loan you a garden cart if you need to "lug it" from a more remote water tap - if you can supply the bucket. (I do need the cart back, during the festival, since I use it to portage my blackwater to the dump - but I don't usually spill much on the cart.)

There are on-site "public showers" if you feel the urge to smell less bad.

There are on-site "fast food" vendors of a sort during "business hours," and the town has several "acceptable" restaurants. The Wally converted to a "super store" a year ago, so you can get some groceries there, and they seem to have an unusually good stock of camping and RV gear not carried by most WMs. It's next door to a Dillons market, and back down a different road there's another small market.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 11:33 PM

Put the coffee pot on. We'll get to Winfield sometime on the 12th, the Friday before the Festival, so we can go to the Great Plains Dulcimer Alliance picnic on Saturday.

We'll have to split time between the fairgrounds and family stuff, but it's nice having family in Winfield so we can roll into town without a lot of gear. I expect we'll pay the rent by spneding a day helping with the Downtown Association's fund raiser as usual.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 12:13 AM

Phil -

We enjoyed your pics from the downtown activities recently, but there was an argument here about whether you were pourin' or guzzlin'.

Maybe we'll look for some clarification this year.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 12:25 AM

Probably some of both since I don't remember it too clearly.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 04:26 AM

Uncle Phil and the Beutiful Girl You Bring Along--

Looking forward to seeing you again this year. I'm planning to be there by Land Rush day, but as you probably know, John's vacation starts when he leaves me at home all alone (sob) and goes off into the wilds of the fairground to "mark our space," usually the end of August.

Bring cool clothes this year; we've had several days over 100 degrees in the last couple of weeks. Of course, September may be a whole different story, too. John always tells me to pack for all four seasons, and most times he's right. We're bound to get rained on at least once...

Sorcha and Wyo, sorry you can't be there this year. We'll keep an eye out for the band members--names or nicknames, please?

LEJ, are you coming this year? Please stop in for a howdy and a beer.

Getting restless already,
Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST,wlisk
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 10:00 AM

Deanna and I enjoy "The Line-up". We meet lots of new people as you camp in line in the order that you get there. We can bring our dog too (he likes to sing Old Blue). We just took the cover off of the Casita and opened it up and it smelled like Winfield.
See you in a few weeks John.

Bill & Deanna

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 07:32 PM

Bill--

So that's whose dog was singing last year! I thought I recognized the tune!

We sure enjoyed being near the Casita in lineup last year; hope we're close enough to hear y'all again this year. See you soon!

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 09:07 PM

Hey, Lin. When you see Bill get his license plate number. He owes me a beer from NTIF this might be a good chance to collect without him having to come back to Texas or me go to Arkansas.

Michelle says howdy and to tell you she is still planning to bring her sewing machine this year -- even if she has to Fed Ex her clothes to make room.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 11:35 PM

Uncle Phil--

I can probably wrest your beer from Bill somewhere along the line...however, that does leave you the problem of getting it away from me. Bring wine and I'll trade ya.

Michelle, me too. I have plans for setting up a mini-sewing room under the canopy again and several projects I'm bringing along, just to make sure I keep busy, you know. As if . And who needs all those clothes anyway??

Looking forward to seeing you two again.

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: wlisk
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 09:28 AM

Uncle Phil
We usually camp across the street and north a little from the Front Porch Radio tent, come by anytime for that beer. Well anytime after 10am and before 3am! We're in a little Casita trailer that looks like a small plastic egg with Arkansas plates. We'll see Lin and John in the preline and have that beer/wine.

Bill

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: WyoWoman
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 10:09 PM

Aw, man. I wish I could meet you folks there.

Next year in Jerusalem, for sure ...

No, really...

--WW

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Al
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:01 PM

Al and Barbara will be there playing old time music at CAMP NOWHERE.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Gary T
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 12:10 AM

I plan to get there sometime during the weekend preceding the festival proper. Most likely camping spot is on 14th St. between the Pecan Grove central oval and the re-entry gate, on the high-ground (south) side, but we'll see what I find when I arrive. My cell phone # is 816-812-1405.

I sure am looking forward to seeing all of you. I might enjoy the festival, too. :-)

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 06:54 AM

Al, Barbara, and Gary:

YAY! The crew is gathering! I hunted up Camp Nowhere last year, but y'all weren't home--I'll try it again this year, and listen close for dulcet strains of old-timey songs.

Gary, we'll (hopefully) be in the same place; as always, you're welcome anytime. Will try to find you on one of my "roll-abouts" in my little red scooter...or failing that, give you a call.

And BTW, y'all, don't miss going to hear Buddy Greene, the only (to my knowledge) guy to ever play harmonica in Carnegie Hall. See on You Tube.

Also highly recommended: the David Munnelly Band, The Wiyos, The Old 78s. See here for a full listing.

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 06:12 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 01:43 PM

What advice do you old timers have for a first timer? Im driving up from Texas for the festival weekend mostly to see the Greencards My wife thinks we should get a motel room since its only a couple days, but I say bring the Boy Scout gear and camp out. I have not checked on motels yet, but would be surprised if we could find one on that weekend. Are there lots of camping places? How are camping spots assigned? How far is the camping from the stages? Thank you.

---

Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 02:44 PM

Guest

Motels really close are frequently booked a year in advance. The closest you can be reasonably sure of getting into may be in Wichita, about 40 or 50 miles northwest of Winfield. (Distance varies depending on whether you believe the publicists, the maps, or the odometer. Wichita is sprawled out about 20 miles wide, so location in Wichita can add some clicks on the odometer.)

At the first post in this thread, the 5th link: Official WVA website, I believe in the "Camping" section, theres a list of some "Alternatives to Camping" that some some possibles where you might find a closer one, but I'd recommend calling ahead as soon as possible to try to get a confirmed reservation if you want a hotel/motel. The list includes "alternative camping" at the County Lake about 15 miles north, but it's almost certain to be full by the time you arrive.

Camping is NOT ASSIGNED. It's first come, first planted, with the "Land Rush" to prevent anyone from getting in ahead of the crowd. A "Lineup for Landrush" starts a week earlier to decide who gets in first on Landrush morning, and you can "camp out" for up to two weeks ahead of that to try to be "early into Lineup."

If you have a tent and are reasonably self-sufficient, you can find a place to pitch a tent almost anytime, but you may have to poke about a bit and squeeze in.

There's a crude map at a subpage of Picker's Paradise that may give some idea of how things are spread out. There's no scale shown on the map; but you'll enter at the ticket booth off Highway 106 which is 7th Avenue out of Winfield. 14th Avenue is shown down toward the bottom of the map, so you can apply "seven small-town city blocks" as a dimension for the distance between those two.

The "purple" patch in the middle is the grandstand area. No vehicles (and no booze or other contraband) allowed there. Walk-in only and all persons entering will be "inspected," which may include looking in purses and any "carried items."

The green and yellow areas at top left are the regular park campground, which is equipped with numerous electrical hookups and pletiful water taps; but you're unlikely even to find a place to pitch a tent there if you arrive at the final weekend. The two "trails" that run under the bridge are "overflow" camping areas, and might have space left, technically in the "green" area.

The blue and peach areas near the bottom are in what is normally a "day park" where camping is "only during the Festival." A few electrical hookups are added and removed in the small oval, but they will be long gone. There are three water taps inside the oval, but outside it there's no immediately accessible water. You can probably carry enough water to get you through a couple of days, but bringing a good bucket (water can) is recommended.

The white area on the right (East) between Highway 106 (7th Ave) and 14th Ave isn't shown as a camp area on the map, but is being used in recent years. There is no electricity, no water, no shade, and campfires are banned there; but it's not too bad once it begins to fill up and a few RVs spread their canopies. Quite a few who were forced there in recent past years now just go there by choice.

You'll need a "camping permit" for each tent pitched. There's been an attempt to require an additional "camping permit" for each shade shelter people set up, but enforcement is "variable." Each camping permit gets you a "parking sticker" that allows one vehicle in the area for which you get the camping permit. The parking sticker does not assure you of finding a place to park in the campground, but "local arrangements" can usually squeeze in most of the people who need a vehicle close to camp. Lots of campers park in the "Day Parking" area, north of the grandstand, and walk in, or back in after they get setup, due to parking congestion in the camp areas.

How far it is to the grandstand and stages depends entirely on where you find your camping site, but do plan on doing some walking.

If you get "inside" one of the major camp areas, do watch which road you follow getting to the grandstand or to other camps. The camping area really isn't all that big, but it's "unorganized" and people have been known to get lost going back to camp, especially after dark.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 03:10 PM

All that said, people are usually friendly and helpful to those who just want to pitch a tent. It's a huge place and upward of 18,000 (yes, eighteen THOUSAND) people camp there on the weekend of the Festival, so as John says, no matter where you find a spot, be prepared to do some walking to get to the grandstand and all the shows.

It's still the funnest thing we do all year long. [smile] Hope you make it there and enjoy the Greencards and other performers--there are some really good ones, on all four stages, not to mention some darned good pickers in the campgrounds. Go to the official website for a list and short biographies of those performing.

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 04:38 PM

Wow! Thanks for the quick answer and all the info. Everyone Ive met who has been there says how awesome it is.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 01:15 AM

Sorcha and Wyo Woman, hope to see you next year. But, hey, if you do manage to catch a ride this year I think I know where we can score us some beers.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 05:12 AM

Refresh, as I've got just a week to finish packing and won't see comments after that.

Lin will probably go down about 1 to 2 weeks after I go, and may bring me later updates.

We'll likely also make "spot visits" back home to look in on the critters, so may be able to check in briefly at random times during the festival.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 04:21 AM

Time to panic at our house.

The camper is partly loaded, moved to the back drive where it's more accessible than at the "storage" spot in the back yard. Except for the requirement to mow the two-foot high weeds to get to the camper, and hack a hole in the wisteria that was blocking the back door to the house, the movement was "uneventful."

The tow van, as usually, is bursting at the seams and sagging in the a** with my usual overload of "essentials." Left to load, or to organize for Lin to truck down later:

- - Her sewing table (she can take care of the sewing machine, material, threads, needles and other girly stuff).
- - Camp decorations (mostly lights we're in the habit of stringing).
- - The rumble seat for her "mobility" scooter. - necessary because tail lights are required at night in the campground, and the rear basket that I added is the only place to put them.

- - Oh yeah ... maybe an instrument or two, and I haven't picked out the pair of britches to wear for the next month.

Refrigerator turned on to cool down about an hour ago. It takes several hours to "stabilize" at safe temp when it runs off electric, and will do much better when I get parked and turn on the gas. Due to the slope in the driveway, and the necessity to "level" the camper to operate the reefer safely, the rear of the van is jacked up about two feet, so neighbors giggle when they jog past, but it should work.

Since I got such a late start packing up (almost nothing done before May 15 this year) I've got most of the repair parts to restore life to "defective and marginal" trailer systems after last year's outing; so I'll have something to do in the pre-lineup.

Some shopping to do tomorrow, largely for "perishable food" basics.

I've also barely started organizing the stuff that Lin will need to load when she comes down. The main problem is finding a place to "organize" where she won't be tripping over things before she's ready to come down, but where she absolutely will trip over them when it's time for her to load up.

Target TOA is 07:00 or slightly before, Wednesday morning for me. Lin is guessing she'll come down (to stay) about 01 Sept.

Lin suggests a warning for Bill and Deanna that Glenn (Murph/Murphy) dropped by and said he's anxious to play with them (he mentioned "in lineup"). He didn't comment on whether it's his dulcimer or his spoons he has in mind. If that merits special camouflage for the egg, let the rest of us know how to recognize it, or if you hide it from us let him know. (Plastic flamingos are still available, but does anybody make a plastic ostrich. A large bird would be a perfect and appropriate addition to the Lisk campsite, I'd think.)

Murph said that he intends to "dump his trailer" in the pre-lineup Wednesday, but will make "occasional visits" the keep an eye on things - if the jury summons he got a couple of days ago doesn't upset things. I got a similar one at about this time last year, but my doctor happily certified that I was incontipent, incontinept, inepticant. %#$@^@!! not healthy enough to participate.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 09:34 AM

I think the word you were looking for is incontinent. I'll be thinking about all the fun ya'll'll be having 'in line' for the next few weeks while I'm toiling away at the day job. We still plan to drive up on the 12th so no serious packing yet, though I'd be willing to bet real American money that Michelle is already making lists.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 11:29 AM

Uncle Phil -

She plans ahead and you don't have to start packing in March?

Lin only makes lists so she can tell me what I forgot to pack after she gets there. Documentary evidence and all that. (But I think sometimes she makes stuff up and back-dates the lists. I certainly don't remember anything I've forgot.)

I don't think "incontinent" was a word that the doc used. Winfield's only about 55 miles from the house so I don't have to leave the country, let alone the continent, even if it is a different world there.

The interesting thing was that the doc told the judge I've got problems she hadn't told me I have - and that I didn't think she'd noticed.

She explained later that "we didn't want to worry you 'till we got the serious stuff under control." Now I'm really worried. What if they're not telling me about something serious just 'cause they can't do anything about it? (There is a cure for decrepitus celeritus isn't there?)

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: wlisk
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 02:48 PM

Don't forget your tickets - hope there is room for them!

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 04:41 PM

Bill--The tickets have been packed since the day we got 'em--John just has to remember to give me mine from wherever he's got them stashed...along with some cash so I can buy groceries while he's gone, I hope.

And I could make lists till the cows come home (and do) but they don't mean a thing unless they contain something that John believes is essential. So usually I just make lists for MY stuff and try to remember to bring all that. And maybe some extra clothes for the man (he isn't kidding about the one pair of pants until I get there).

Getting downright antsy to get there, I am. See y'all soon!

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 10:31 AM

'Murph said that he intends to "dump his trailer" in the pre-lineup Wednesday, but will make "occasional visits" the keep an eye on things - if the jury summons he got a couple of days ago doesn't upset things.'


Once I had a trip to Scotland planned and the airline tickets bought. Then I got a jury summons for the same time. I called the office and they said, 'No problem. We'll take your name out and call you some other time. Thanks for calling!'

So much for all those rumors that you absolutely can't get out of jury service.


Have fun at the festival.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 11:54 AM

Leenia -

In most places in the US the rumors are pretty much true. It's impossible to generalize, since the real situation is different for each court, and may vary from county to county, or even city precinct to precinct.

Here, where Murphy is affected, there are a very few statutory "excuses," that can be applied simply by presenting authoritative and credible statements that the specific causes apply - such as that you are "medically unsuited to perform jury service" as my doctor affirmed.

The judge here may excuse anyone else, but is not required to do so for any reason not listed in the jury rules of the specific court's jurisdiction. "Vacation plans" would not typically qualify for quick consideration and a rapid excusing of the victim potential juror here, although there is a mechanism for asking.

Even to present a reason for wanting to be excused often requires an appearance when the jury pool is assembled, where the judge may consider excuses. In a worst case, regardless of "excuse," the potential juror may have to wait "until called for examination" when a plausible argument may cause one of the attorneys to request that the judge excuse the juror "for cause." It's not uncommon for a potential juror to be required to sit in the "jury pool" area for a week, and never be called to serve on a jury - and never get an opportunity to ask to be excused. It's also not extremely rare for a prospective juror who offers an "unacceptable" objection to be threatened with contempt of court and a night or two in jail.

Your experience really is no cause for optimism here. What matters more here is which judge presides and what kind of day(s) (s)he's been having - - - and how many others have offered "lame excuses" before yours gets viewed.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 03:27 PM

Surely it's worth one phone call. It certainly was in my case. I was excused even before setting foot in the courtroom.

In any event, I was going to face whatever penalties they dished out rather than cancel my trip.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 06:55 PM

leenia -

Glenn's a big boy, and he's got the number to call if he wants to. He's almost as old as I am and maybe at least half as cute. He may be even better than me at the sweet talkin' - but I don't know if he intends to ask to be excused from the jury.

One thing in favor of him not having quite the usual difficulty, if he wants to try to opt out, is that he's apparently in a "standby pool." If he doesn't try to make arrangements to be excused, he has to call in, sometimes several days in a row, to see if they've used up the primary pool and then has a day to make arrangements to go in if his pool ( I think there may be more than one of "standbys") is needed.

Since he doesn't actually wait in line for the festival - just dumps his trailer and goes home until the fest actually starts - he has a couple of weeks to argue with them and could still make it to the festival when he needs to be there unless he's assigned to a jury that starts trial soon and runs more than a few days.

If he gets his trailer in line on 21 August, he doesn't need to be back there until 06 Sept to get his official "lineup position," and then has to be there 11 Sept to get his camping spot in the Landrush. Then the actual festival starts 17 Sept and runs through the weekend.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 07:17 PM

If anyone loses their ticket, they can have mine. Who knows, it might be a collectors item!

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 08:59 PM

Bill D - I'll admit it's the oldest one I've seen.

The problem with it being a collectible is that the only people much interested in those kinds of collections are the ones who've been there, and they've all got their own collections. (Scars, rashes, and huge stashes of outrageous lies, mostly?)

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 01:17 PM

Yep...I have a few of those, too!( and a few outrageous truths!)

Some where, I 'think' I have a ticket from the first one, where they issued tickets for individual days. I taped mine to my autoharp case, and removed the previous....so the one I had saved was from Sunday. It finally came loose, and I stashed it away with the one I posted...I thought.

I think there were only a couple thousand that 1st year, and I had #900 or so.

The 2nd year, I talked it up and several friends came down with me. I gotta find the slides of those years and get them converted to JPEGs.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 01:57 PM

When I dug out my old photos a few years ago, they were starting to fade so badly that I just scanned them all and shredded the originals. A fair percent of them are on our "camp site" at http://waterhole.smugmug.com/.

I believe pics there through 2004 and some of the 2005 were originally film. There are a couple of years when I took fewer pictures, and they apparently got misplaced so there are a couple of "blank" years. (Having nothing to do with my participation in the festivities, of course.)

There were several photos in the early years that looked - and scanned - as blank black rectangles, but that Photoshop Elements pulled fairly decent pictures out of. If I'd know a little bit about how to drive PE back then they migh have looked even better, but even if they didn't look better it would have been a lot easier.

Growth of the WVA festival was pretty slow in the early years, since it was known almost exclusively by the local college/juco students (and a few of their boyfriends at other nearby schools). They had to graduate, spread out, and form clusters of drunken/drinkin' buddies^** to drag into it. They didn't reach critical mass and start to grow rapidly until ca 1985 - '90(?) or so - based on how hard it suddenly became to snag the good camp spots (personal observation, FWIW).

** Someone once tried to bet that more than half of the first-timers in the early years "came with a nurse" on their first trip. My first group had four nurses, one drug dealer (really - a legit professional) and a couple of bartenders. The local Winfield college did train (or at least start) lots of RNs and LPNs.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 03:29 PM

Well, John's off to the wilds of Winfield, dragging the camper and half the house with him. He called this morning (hey! the cell phones work there now!) to tell me he's parked, hooked up, and having his first beer, so things are going well. Wow, the house is sure quiet though... I expect to hear from him again in a couple of days, with a list of the rest of the things I'm supposed to bring when I go on Sept. 1st.

He says there are about 300 campers in "line" so far. They're separating the groups into Walnut Grove and Pecan Grove this year, which may help at Land Rush.

Bill D., if you find your ticket, for gosh sakes, frame the thing! And hang it on a wall where people will notice, so you can tell them all your outrageous lies (and some of the truths). Half the fun of wearing a Winfield tee-shirt is having people ask you, "where's Winfield?" so you can tell 'em what they're missing.

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 06:40 PM

Lin...one outrageous 'lie' is the Winfield Festival tee-shirt a local (Wash DC) friend found for me in a thrift store several years ago. It is from 1989, and above the logo, in red letters, it says 'CREW'.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 03:58 AM

Bill, that's too cool! Treasure that shirt; there likely weren't a whole bunch of them in 1989!

John told me today that he was on his way to a jam with some friends just down the road. I am jealous. Only a couple of weeks and another 100 pages, and I'll be there too. Can't wait.

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Art Thieme
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 07:52 PM

The slides I took at Winfield (the good ones anyway), plus the rest of my folk scene slides, are all now ensconced at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of American History.

Once again, I wilkl not to be there with y'all. Have a fine time.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 10:01 PM

Hee hee....Mr has a whole BUNCH of Winfield shirts that say CREW...they lie too. His mom gave them to him. She IS CREW!

Sure wish we were going but I have dogs to take care of. 'Should' be down to just 3 by that weekend but still......

My 'best' camping spot in the early years was my HOME....315 West 14th. Just 3 blocks from the 'dike' and Pecan Grove! Hell, in the early years we could sit on the front porch and listen to the music and get high just from the drifing smoke from the fairgrounds.....Oh, sorry. Right, we didn't 'do' that stuff, did we?????

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Tom James
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 02:56 PM

Hi John. I'm new to the cafe, still learning the ropes. Where are you from in Kansas? I don't run into too many other bones and spoons players around Wichita.

Way too long since Mr. Thieme has been around. Please come back sometime.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 01:10 AM

Tom -
John's not snubbing you. He's already camped out on the fairgrounds in Winfield, most likely with no internet access.
- Phil

Glen Murphy(left)on Dulcimer

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 04:09 PM

Art, we sure wish you were feeling well enough to come to the Festival again. It would be a treat and an honor to meet you. We will think of you often while raising hell the next three weeks.

Tom, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner! Phil's right; John's been camped out at Winfield for a week already, and though his computer's there, he's got no Internet (withdrawals are imminent).

Phil's photo shows Glen, who is from Newton KS, and plays one heck of a set of spoons in addition to his dulcimer. John and I are from Wichita. If you are too, do you know about the Monday night jams at Old Chicago Restaurant on Kellogg East? They play lots of Irish and folk, and Glen is usually there with dulcie and spoons. All listeners and most players are welcome!

Also, don't know if you've ever been to the Festival, but Winfield is a great place to meet players of all kinds of instruments, including cicadas (yes, I mean the bugs).

Sorcha, of course we never did that stuff. That's why we're all old, gray, wrinkled, and tired today!

Phil, looking forward to seeing you and Michele there! John and I BOTH got new cameras this last year, but he still says you cheat and take pictures in the daylight...gotta do something about that weird streak of yours.

Working madly to get my proof job finished so I can go out there and stay,

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 03:01 PM

DONE! Out to Winfield for the duration, except quick trips back (like today) to feed the Brat Cats.

Hope to see a bunch of ya out in the Pecan Grove makin' music. (Or whatever...) There are about 300-400 campers, RVs, invisible blue tarps, fifth wheels, etc. parked out there waiting for Land Rush on Thursday, Sept. 11th.

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 04:45 PM

Put the coffee pot on and ice down some beer, we'll be there as quick as we can.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 11:16 AM

Phil, you got it. See ya soon!

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST,Al no cookie
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 09:09 PM

The official festival site reports flooding. They request nobody show up this weekend. Forecast for later in the week is sunny.
Al

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 09:17 PM

Friday, 12 September, 2008

(Thursday was Land Rush, and we all proceeded to our campsites and "pitched tents and circled the wagons" - in an all-day rain/drizzle/rain/drizzle/rain.)

Vague rumors beginning in early morning hours following approximately 5.2 inches of rain overnight indicated that some parts of the campground notoriously subject to flooding were "being moved." Some people were quoting "radio and TV reports" that a crest on the Walnut River at about 18 feet (flood stage is 18 feet) was predicted by Friday afternoon.

The "official" WVA radio station, 105.7 FM, continued to broadcast the information than only selected areas were to be evacuated, but began adding information(?) on "re-assembly areas" people could go to.

By about noon, unofficial rumors were that the USGS hydrological unit had predicted a crest at ~34 feet for the Walnut river at Winfield on Saturday. A few hours later the radio began confirming the USGS estimate, and suggested "some people may need to move."

An official US Meteorological report repeated by the radio station indicated an expected crest on Friday at about 18 feet, to be followed on Saturday by another crest at 34.2 feet.

An "apparently official" announcement by the radio station early in the afternoon stated that the park was ordered closed, and that evacuation by EVERYONE, by midnight, was mandatory.

About the only sign of actual "preparedness" was the sudden appearance of a number of very large tractors who worked their way fairly methodially from low points up to higher ground, extracting rigs that would otherwise be lost in the mud. Utility crews also appeared and proceeded with the "normal" elevation of all the electrical outlet boxes to their "off-season" height (15 or 20 feet above ground level?).

At least five "re-assembly" locations were given by the radio station, but with only vague directions regarding their locations. No information was ever provided suggesting where people from given park locations should reassemble. We were informed that "instructions would be given" at the main entrance as we left the park, however police directing traffic would NOT PERMIT US TO GO TO THE MAIN ENTRANCE. (Academic comment, as at least one who evaded the police and made it to the main entrance was told there were no instructions available. One other, who claims to have "argued vigorously" was finally given a sheet with a bad map on it but with no other information.)

In the absence of useful information, a small group from our camp met at the Walmart parking lot (after a multi-mile detour at the direction of police and sheriff dept officers). This was one of the "re-assembly" locations listed. After some discussion, we all left with a variety of destinations.

The more rational of us seemed inclined to return home (mostly to Wichita - ~50 miles from the park) and await further information.

With the exception of confirmation via the USGS hydro website that the river was at 18.1 feet at 19:00 (7:00 pm Central US Time Zone) no further information has been accessible (to me).

The "official statement" from the WVA website is that the "Festival will proceed as scheduled," but there is as yet no information on when and how people will be permitted to return to the campground (if at all).

A possibly valid rumor is that the USGS "projection" was that the river will return to "at or below flood stage" by "sometime Monday." It is also projected that hurricane Ivan will produce copious rain in the area during the next week or so.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST,Al no cookie
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 10:16 PM

http://www.winfieldcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=26042

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 11:54 PM

Yep, guest Al - I saw the Courier article, and it describes just the kind of info we needed:

"Stone said depending on where campers are located, they will be diverted to one of five locations."

The problem was that that's NOT WHAT HAPPENED.

There were several places "listed" as gathering spots, beginning at first with two, then going to five, then with three omitted, then with one added back:

The city lake is booked months in advance for this festival by people who choose to camp offsite - according to WVA prior information, so it might not be a good spot to go to if it's already full.

The county lake is also booked months in advance by those who choose to camp there while attending the festival, and info said there was a fishing tournament also booked for this weekend, so all the existing camp sites were already full.

Only one of these two lakes was listed, but there was considerable confusion so people went to both. Early arrivals at both lakes phoned back reports of "seas of mud" with no stable sites, no power, and no water. The weather forecast includes up to 5 or 6 inches of additional rain in the next day or two.

The Walmart parking lot (the FIRST SITE GIVEN) lacks both water and electrical hookups. Some big campers carry a lot of water and have generators, but those of us in smaller units have very limited "carry with" supplies of water, and some of us REQUIRE electrical power for medical reasons. It's also incredibly difficult, and not approved practice, to drive tent stakes in an asphalt parking lot.

The "auction barn" location is unknown to most people, and the location was only vaguely described, with NO INFORMATION on what facilities were available there.

Nobody was told where or how to assemble to be ready to go back to the fairgrounds. They were just told to get out, with vague suggestions of some places they might go. There was no indication of when (if) camping might resume, so going to a "remote" campsite with uncertain facilities is not an inviting prospect, especially given the absence of any estimate of how long you might be there.

Instructions from the radio on how to get out were countermanded by police and sheriff deputies directing traffic, so
I wouldn't be surprised if some people are still wandering around on back roads in unfamiliar territory. The roads that the "official" radio told us to take were blocked by police.

Being FM, and essentially line-of-sight reception, the "official" station can't be received by most people even in the places it was suggested we go. A shortest-distance tour of the sites listed, to see if one was "habitable" would appear to be about a 50 mile trip.

After spending three weeks sitting there just to get a space and with no indication that it will be possible to return, or even any indication of whether "there's a plan" it's a little confusing.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:43 AM

John -
Howdy from Winfield where it is raining hard at 6:30 local time on Saturday morning. From what we could see last night about 11 the Walnut Grove was completely flooded and the water was approaching the barns. They had all the doors open so the water could flow through. We're warm and dry at the rel's farm out in Wilmot.

We rolled in from Dallas around supper time yesterday. We've spent the last week and a half trying to reason with hurricane season. Family in Baton Rouge is still without electric, and we evacuated my 92 year old mom to my sister's home in Dallas. She was planning to return to Baton Rouge yesterday, but only managed to fly from Dallas to Dallas when to BR aerodrome closed because weather while she was in the air. Dallas is more-or-less in the path of Hurricane Ike so it should be an interesting few days there. I'm guessing that Houston is already a mess.

The first rain we saw yesterday was in Ark City while crossing the Arkansas River which looked to be a flood stage. We came into Winfield on Hwy 77, saw all the campers in the Walmart parking lot, and figured that something was going on. We met the relatives at Greenbush Merchantile and got the story. Drove past the fairgrounds before heading to the farm to unload after supper. They were still tractoring out a few caravans but it was mostly empty. The lower parts of the Walnut Grove were already flooded.

We unloaded, and then Michelle's cousin and I went off to search the refugee camps to see if we could find you. There was still some room, but conditions varied. The Walmart parking lot was dry , but no water or electric. The livestock barn is a sea of mud. The campgrounds on the Wilmont side of the lake are pretty muddy, and the roads on that side are a muddy disaster. I was glad we drove up in my Jeep instead of Michelle's van. Most of the caravans seem to have electric for the moment, don't know about water. The Winfield side of the lake is better, but still pretty muddy.

We ran into Bill and Deana on that side. They went to the Walmart parking lot earlier, then moved out to the lake to get electric and water. Folks out there got the margarita machine working and we got a pretty good jam session going before the rains came again.
Everyone seemed content to just wait and see what is going to happen about the festival. The locals seem to think the water will go down quickly when the rains stop and that there's a good chance that the festival will happen next weekend. Hope that's not just wishful thinking. We'll keep you posted if I can get messages out over this chancy, dialup connection.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:11 AM

I've seen the Walnut within a foot of the top of the dike/levee on West 14th Street. I'll leave it to your imagination just how much of the Fairgrounds was under water then.

This happens every few years, it has just never happened DURING the Festival before.

If someone is TRULY desperate, contact me by PM. I have relatives there who MIGHT be induced to open their homes, or provide camper space with water and electric.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JedMarum
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 11:23 AM

It only looks like more weather headed your way tonight. I hope y'all can stay dry and free of mud! The good news is, it ought to clear over the next few days.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 11:42 AM

Hi y'all--

Uncle Phil, glad you and Michelle made it all right and had a safe trip. Not such a great welcome to the Festival, though, huh? Glad you guys have shelter and can stay warm and dry.

Sorcha, I think all the townspeople have probably barricaded their doors and windows to keep out the riff-raff, as no one was allowed even to exit 14th street since they "didn't want the traffic through town." So instead the cops routed us all the way out to 33rd, then to Hwy. 77, so we could drive ALL the way down the main drag to get out south...

Jed, as one camper I spoke with told me, "I've been wet and muddy for three days now." Poor guy looked it, too. Hope Ike leaves us out of its left-overs!

Watching NOAA and the WVF web site closely, and hoping for the best,

Lin and John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 01:57 PM

Well, Lin, yes, sadly that is probably true....has always been that way. And what a HORRIBLE route to have to take! Since I lived in the 300 block of W. 14th, I'd have said, "**** YOU, buddy, I'm going HOME!" LOL.


I'm just a little ray of sunshine today, aren't I?

On a serious note, tho, the Fairgrounds DOES dry out pretty fast once the water recedes. If you know of any place to get wheat straw, get it NOW! The price is just about to go UP. It's great for filling in mud holes and stuff.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 05:05 PM

USGS Hydrological Data for Winfield KS gives apparently accurate information on the measured depth of the Walnut River at Winfield, updated about twice daily. At the present time (09-13-2008 15:30) the river depth is shown as 27.20 feet. This site gives good information on current conditions, but makes no predictions.

US Weather Service for Winfield KS shows the same measured information at "fuzzy" resolution, up to the dotted vertical "current time" line, with a predicted extrapolation for the next few days. The "actual value" is updated more frequently than the "prediction" so there frequently is some mismatch – a break at the current time – between actual and predicted. They erase the "predictions before now" information so you won't notice how accurately(?) they predicted what has happened in the recent past. Since this site is maintained by the Weather Service office in Wichita (a fairly big city) where they appear to have only a vague notion of where Winfield (a tiny town) actually is, and Winfield is only one of many sites reported by this office, the "predictions" have about the same accuracy as the local TV weather reports for "surrounding areas."

A useful bit of information at this site is the section on "Flood Impacts" a little way down the page, where the "depths" are translated into what areas water will invade.

At the time of our expulsion from the park, it was reported that a crest at 34.2 feet was being predicted, about 4 feet above the level that probably would close US 77 north of Winfield – the only way many people know of for getting in and out of town.

When we arrived back at Wichita where I could access the site, the prediction was still for a crest of 34.2 feet, but the actual current value was about 4 feet below the value predicted for that time, and appeared to be "leveling off." The predicted maximum was dropped to 29.9 feet, but the last current value then was almost 2 feet above what was predicted, and rising fairly rapidly. The latest prediction has changed three times while I've been previewing this post, from 29.4 to 31 plus, and is now 31.6 ft (if I post quickly), close to crossing US 77 highway north of Winfield.

The earlier prediction was that water would recede to "flood stage" (18 feet) by early Monday morning. The current prediction indicates late Monday before that depth is obtained. It will be necessary for the river to fall below "action level" (16 feet – now predicted for Tuesday afternoon) before any natural drainage (including seepage) of most affected park areas can occur, and even with efficient pumping out of low spots some "drying" time – probably one or two days under good conditions – will be needed before "wheels" of any kind can be permitted in most of the camping areas at the park.

Those who found adequate alternate camping spots quite probably should expect to remain there for the duration of the festival. IF THEY HAVE TRANSPORTATION that permits it, "commuting" to the festival may be an option; but several people we know who were "going to the lake" (either one) had "hitched in" and had no transport of their own. I suspect most in that circumstance will simply hold "alternative festivals" in the camps where they've settled, for the most part – assuming a sufficient "picker density" to keep the jam sessions going.

While "commuting" from Wichita would involve only about 100 miles per day, neither Lin nor I are able to walk the distances required to get from day parking to any worthwhile centers of activity, or to remain "on our feet" for extended times. The nutritional qualities of vendor food at the festival are also mostly incompatible with recommendations by our medical advisors, so personal food preparation facilities are needed.

We are awaiting further information, but prospects are not good.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 05:12 PM

4:00 PM Rain slacking off. The river was not in the buildings at lunch time, but I don't know if it has crested yet. Cold front tomorrow is supposed to push the rain off to the east.

No point in heading back south until things improve here because of the remnants of hurricane Ike, so spent a productive afternoon coloring with cousin's great grand-daughter. More family stuff tonight including a birthday party.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Art Thieme
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 12:47 AM

I used to enjoy either coming or going from Winfield on a 2-lane road----#16 I think it was; it ran parallel to Hwy 77---along the Chisholm Trail. I know it went through Wellington where Art & Leota Coats were living---and it swung left at one point to pass the Chisholm Trail Drive-In Theater.. The late Art Coats ran the festival---along with Bob Redford in those days. I do hope that Bob is feeling better of late. I'm still in touch with Leota once in a while. --- More good memories of festivals past.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 02:23 AM

The hydro station reports about another 5 foot rise since Uncle Phil's 4:00 pm report. 30.90 feet, 09-14-2008 at 00:30. That likely will put it into several of the park buildings.

According to the predicting site, 30.5 feet will be across the road on Hwy 77 north of Winfield, so the highway may have about 0.4 feet (4 inches) of water running across it now. Predicted crest remains at 32.7 feet in the next few hours, which could put it 2 feet deep across the highway.

According to the official prediction, it will take about a day before the highway is clear again, assuming no washout damage.

The description says only "north of Winfield." Since some friends are intending to visit the city lake later today, it would be of interest whether the low spot is north or south of the exit to the lake (?). (The lake road is reported as "8 miles north of Winfield.")

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST,al no cookie
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 10:37 AM

John, thanks very much for the updates. Please keep them coming. We're up in Ottawa, still deciding when and if to come down. Your reports are much appreciated.
Al

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 11:03 AM

10:00 Sunday, Winfield Lake. Sunny, windy, and pleasantly cool out by the lake this morning. The park roads are drying out and are easily passable this morning. Small band scramble last night at the marina; we are headed for a hymn sing at one of the refugee camps in a few minutes. Nice to see the festival proceding without benefit of organizers, tickets, etc.

We'll be in town in another hour or two. I'll look and see what the deal is with the river. It was on the road behind the concert barn yesterday PM and in part of the vendor barn. No offical communiques from the festival office yet today.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 12:28 PM

Uncle Phil, bless you. You're saving us a 100-mile round trip with your "notes from the field." We're thinking of making a move to the lake if our friends who are headed there can let us know about availability (or not) of electricity.

The other worrisome thing is the "water over the roadway" report--is the roadway water between the lake and Winfield, or between Wichita and the lake? Hopefully, someone can let us know the answer to that also.

All the WVF website says is "the show will go on." No word on where, what, or who yet, Al. I think Uncle Phil has it right: the festival is going on at the refugee camps right now without benefit of any outside interf--uh, help.

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST,Al no cookie
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 02:48 PM

Our current plan is to go to the stockyards monday or tuesday. Any reports from there?
Is there space available at the lake?
Al

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 04:35 PM

3:30 Sunday. I haven't heard anything about 77 being closed. In know the bridge over the Walnut on 160 between Winfield and I35 is open because I was standing on it 30 minutes ago.

The fairgrounds are completely flooded since this morning, apparently because they had to open the floodgates up stream at El Dorado. I wish I had the bandwidth to post some pictures. The Pecan and Walnut Groves are both completely submerged. There's water in stage areas all the way up to the base of the 14th Street levee. As of about 3:00 the water has fallen a couple inches judging from the watermark on utility poles. Locals say it should go down rapidly unless they open the floodgates upstream again.

The plan is to bring a fire engine in to wash everything down once the river falls and go on with the stage shows. There seems to be no chance of camping on the fairgrounds again this year.

The campgrounds on the lake continue to fill up as more folks arrive from out of town. There is still plenty of space at the lake, but, Lin, I imagine all the hookups are long since gone. Your best shot is someone with a hookup with whom you can camp.

One plan being discussed for the shows is to use the high school for parking and shuttle people to and from the fair grounds on school buses.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:13 PM

The Winfield Courier has at least one new pic up, even on a Sunday morning. Water is up to the Box seats in the grand stand. Here is a link to the article.... Courier

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:16 PM

It's not looking good for the Home Team Campers anywhere. PM me if you really NEED a place to park a camper or sleep. My relatives are Finns Electric (do all the electric for the festival) and other 'stewards'.

Pretty sure that my mother in law would let someone put a camper in her yard, use the electric and hose. She had her camper parked in her yard for years. Also, a cousin is half way between Winfield and Ark City. HUGE yard with lots of parking, electric outlets, etc. Just PM me for more info.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:40 PM

The Courier also has a pic of the Auction Barn parking lot, that doesn't look too inviting.

The Ranger station said (by phone) about an hour ago that there is still space available at city lake, and there are some hookups. A phone call from one of our friends who has been there implies that all (available) hookups are 30 amp, so make sure you've got a plug converter before getting there if you're carrying only "ordinary" cords.

Still no indication of where the water might be across highway 77. The ranger said she had no idea, but friends going in a little before it would have encroached didn't see any likely places coming from the north.

All attempts to locate a decent topo map of the area lead to FEMA websites, none of which "answer" or have phony (non-existing) URLs listed by Google.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:54 PM

Another option for a group is the Quail Valley Fun Barn (great name)south of town. They've got 52 spaces with water and electric, but, as of yesterday evening, they only had 11 campers. I don't have a phone number, and you can Google them faster than I can from out here on the farm.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 06:21 PM

I can't see the picture, but covering the box seats sounds about right, with some white water where the water drops from the midway to the track. Speaking of pictures, there was a picture showing me cooking at last years Main Street Assn hamburger dinner in this morning's paper which was a little startling before the first cup of coffee.

Al, the stockyards are west of thr fairgrounds on 160. I still haven't heard anything about 77 being closed. I know it's open from Winfield to Ks Hwy 8 having driven it today, so if there's a closure it is north of there. The river is continuing to fall so, hopefully, it won't be a concern by morning.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 06:50 PM

One of the rels just stopped by the farm on his way back from the lake. Stage 5 and Stage 7 are set up by the lake. His anecdotal report is that there may be hookups still available near the marina. He's all excited because he will be able to listen to all the campground music without springing for a fairground ticket. Howdyed with Dave Firestine a while ago so I expect Carp Camp will spring up somewhere soon.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 12:12 AM

I have been in Winfield for a week. First time. I have a motorhome sitting in the ball field complex east of walmart.
I think this is a very good place to be. There is room for tents and motorhomes and campers. Lotssa grass . No electric left available. Water is available .The waste truck and ice guy drive thru.
folks here are making the best of the situation and there is a full moon and howlin music in the air !

Bill

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:56 AM

The river was down by a foot by last night at sunset when we drove past the fairgrounds. There was plenty of camping room at the livestock barn and at Walmart. Several people I talked to last night moved from there to the lake. In spite of the hassles a lot of familar "camps" now set up around the lake and festival amenities, like port-a-johns, keep appearing out there. Most camps are centered around the stone bathrooms and showers.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:19 PM

John and Lin arrived in the middle of the night last night and are camped with the Water Hole Gang on the north side of the lake. They had no problems with water on 77. Bill and Deana are camped on the south shore with a congenial group from Texas. Beaucoup electric hookups have been added out at the lake. Lots of good campground music in Kansas tonight.

The water is falling rapidly; the midway was above water by early afternoon and they have hosed out the buildings that were flooded. There won't be any camping on the fairgrounds, but the stage shows, contests, workshops, and vendor areas should operate more or less normally.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:27 PM

The show MUST go on!

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:10 PM

I believe that a week after the 1st or 2nd festival WAY back when, the campgrounds were under 2 ft. or water. It's amazing they have gone so many years without this happening festival weekend.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:22 PM

Yes, Bill, it really is. Happens every few years, but never this close to the festival. And WAY back when, 1st or 2nd festival, the campgrounds weren't used like they are now! Not even close!

Me, I usually just walked (read staggered) home. And hoped my parents were already asleep.....LOL. Those were the days, my friend...

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST,Steve Bell at KCUR
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 01:34 AM

Hey, Al... or anybody! My sister and I are still planning on coming down. Leaving KC Thursday before noon. Where IS the Camp Nowhere gang? At the lake? If so, did you all cluster together at the lake? Is Nowhere anywhere or is it everywhere? In other words, we'd like to find you guys if we can because we enjoyed you so much last year (and for me in the past three years). I'm even ready to play some old time.

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: astro
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 01:42 AM

Carp camp will be very appropriate this year it seems....Dave may not need to wear his Carp hat for a carp to land on his head....

Astro in Tucson and LA....

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:12 PM

Hi all--I'm home to feed the cats again. Here's a small update on the camping situation:

SOUTH side of Winfield Lake:
    Nowhere Camp (I'm pretty sure I saw a sign for them yesterday)
    Bill and Deanna ("Scamp Camp") and friends
    Comfortable Shoes
    Rainbow Camp
    Terry and the Pirates

NORTH Side of Winfield lake:
    Watering Hole
    remnants of the Metaphysical Camp--they had an old-fashioned hillbilly hoedown last night ("free your inner hillbilly")
    Gary T. and some more of the K.C. crew
    At last knowledge, there were still some electrical hookups, and campers are sharing the water hookups, no problem. City of Winfield put in THREE NEW ELECTRIC POLES on the North Side yesterday; the CSSI trucks are making regular runs to suck s*(^t for the campers and set up more Port-A-Pots; and I think I heard the Ice Truck yesterday, too.

Oxford City Park in Oxford:
    Carp Camp (at a large pavillion) and many of their followers
    Haven't heard who else, but could assume lots of Irish music there. The Oxford Mayor is treating them all like royalty, from rumors cast abroad! Also heard, although can't vouch for truth, that the Giant Carp was left floating in their big tree in the Fairgrounds, on the lookout for its mate cruising down the Walnut River. I think Dave DID get his hat, though I don't think he's been trolling with it for any new carp. Rumor also says the traditional Carp Camp Parade will be held in Oxford this year...bring your weird hats and join in. Don't know where the Rat Camp wound up, so their band scramble may not be interrupted this year with "Harmonium."

Haven't heard any camp names for Wal-Mart or for the Auction Barn, sorry. The Wednesday Workshops are being held in town--check with the entry gate at the Fairgrounds or call the Headquarters (620-221-3250)to find out where. The Weds. evening concert with Bill Barwick and the Diamond W Wranglers is being planned for Stage 4 (where the contests are held) instead of Stage 3, so it will be inside tonight, starting at 7:30.

That's just a sniff, of course--people are scattered all over the place. City of Winfield is being very helpful, everyone is cooperating, and the groups at the Lake are having a wonderful time with absolutely no one in charge! It's been quite an adventure, but I think folks are settling in now and EVERYONE is ready to party.

Vendors are supposed to be setting up under the grandstands as usual, and entertainers are poised to do what they do best. Yes, Sorcha, the Show Must Go On!!

Here's a link to the main WVF page, with updates: click here

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:45 PM

Short additional note:

Front Porch Radio is apparently out at Oxford City Park also.

Here's a link to Don Shorock's photos. He's linked some other folks (Joe Tholan in particular has nice pics), too. Pretty impressive, old Mama Nature is.

Click to view

And you bet, Bill D. and Sorcha, it's a wonder it hasn't happened many times before. It usually does, just not at Festival time!

I'll post photos to our Smugmug site AFTER the Festival, as usual, and will give y'all a link then. I've got the critters fed and am heading back to camp. Anyone who isn't here yet is missing a lot of fun and great music!

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 09:12 PM

Well, honestly, City of Winfield SHOULD be very helpful considering the MONEY this festival has brought in over the years!

(and you can bet yer bottom dollar that they didn't USED to be helpful at all...riff raff you know)

I 'assume' (we all know what THAT really means) that the yard sales on W. 9th and W. 14th are still as usual? :)

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: WyoWoman
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 10:42 PM

So glad to hear that you're all going to be able to get SOME Winfield fix at least. Takes more than a few feet of water to keep that spirit down.

Besides, my K.C. friends and band mates would be unbearable if they had to go for an entire year with no WVA. My motives for hoping the show goes on are at least half unselfish.

ww

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:04 PM

Thurs PM. We are one day into the actual festival. Everything is up and running. So far it looks like numbers are down some. All the workshops went on as scheduled Wednesday, albeit with fewer students than expected. We fed 350 at the hamburger dinner after planning for 500. The cowboy concert Wednesday night had a good crowd that filled the Stage 4 barn.

There are shuttle buses running from the fairgrounds to places like the lake and they are parking cars where the infield camping has been in other years. Fairground crowds were OK today on Thursday. The lake is rocking with, as Lin says, absolutely no one in charge. Mudcatters Bill and Deana Lisk (wlisk) were on front porch radio this afternoon.

Off to the lake...
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 12:36 AM

Mandolin Cafe has a link to some lovely pictures of the moisture... also, today's "spotlight MP3" was a track featuring Dave Firestine and Round the House, from their latest cd.

~ Becky in Sunny Tucson

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 08:19 AM

Back home in Texas, here are weather pictures that I couldn't post last week.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST,wlisk
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 01:39 PM

Well it could have been a disaster but ended up being the best one yet! We spent alot of time with Phil & Michelle, saw John and Lin at the Lake, and ran into Gary at the festival. The jam sessions were great. The grand finale for us was Saturday night at our campsite (Scamp Camp) with the David Munnely Band, the Old 78's and the Wiyos-what fun! Posted some pics on www.myspace.com/wlisk
We really enjoyed Phil & Michelle, seems like we saw them at every performance that Deanna and I went to! And Phil makes a great wood fairy. Thanks again Phil see you at NTIF.
Bill & Deanna

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 10:03 PM

Bill, what a fantastic lineup for your Saturday night jam! We were pickin' on the other side of the lake, but wish we could have been at your place too--where are those cloning facilities when you need 'em?

Gary T. stopped by to serenade us with a wonderful parody of Ragtime Cowboy Joe that we think needs posted on the DT. Thanks, Gary! And we got to see Phil several timees (he says Michele was sewing and resting at the rels' house) and enjoyed talking with him.

As Bill says, it was a terrific Festival, flood and all. Certainly one we'll remember long after some of the others are forgotten! Signing off until next year...

Lin

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 09:26 AM

Finally got non-flood pics off the camera and posted here.

It should be interesting to see what happens next year. I missed being able to stroll from camp to camp with everyone jumbled up together on the fairgrounds, and missed the variety of music that we've enjoyed in past years. We're planning to be back on the fairgrounds next year.

Winfield Lake and the park in Oxford, however, weren't bad, especially when you consider that you didn't have to buy pricey festival tickets to camp there. I wonder how many folks, especially those who never go to the main stage shows anyway, will elect to camp away from the fairgrounds next year?

Not to be crass, but I also wonder how the artists and vendors, who did not do as well as expected financially, will feel about next year. We bought enough food to feed hamburgers to 500 at the Wed night music crawl, but only fed 350 (leftovers to the firefighters, etc like every year). I expect that the other vendors were down by at least that much and CD sales were off as well.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 01:05 PM

Uncle Phil -

The upset in the routine was substantial, but in my case it wasn't (perhaps) entirely the fault of mother nature (the b**ch) and WVA.

Our usual trip there runs about $1K for the two of us, with

Tickets $160
Camping fees, ~32 days with hookup for one $320
Camping fees ~32 days without hookup for one $160
Food, repairs, maintenance/repairs for stuff busted in landrush, etc., the rest of about a thousand.

Extra expenses of in-and-out for the evacuation and relocation ran the bill up this year to about $1,800 before we got back to the lake (fees all paid by then), and by the time we got back home our grand total was somewhere around $21,600^** for the whole trip. (With a few hundred $ of "cleanup" fixes remaining.)

^** There was the minor added expense of replacing both Lin's scooter, which she killed by trying to drive it through a swamp, and replacing our tow vehicle, which suffered near total failure getting in and out of the lake and had to be replaced on the way home. The latter was a "totally unexpected" expense, since the old puller had less than 100,000 miles on it (although it was 14 years old). The radio went out about 6 years ago, the air conditioning died three years back, and the ABS module crapped out (for the second time) about a year ago; but aside from those minor blemishes it was in great shape.

The usual good fun was had by all. (???)

See y'all next year.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 07:56 PM

Hanging out in Winfield picking parlor in a sharp-looking new hat – priceless.

Sorry to hear about the van. I hope you gave it a decent burial. We saved on camping fees because we never actually camped, but we spent a fortune on gas traveling between the house/camps and the main stages at the fairgrounds. Our own fault, I suppose, for going to Winfield and actually going to shows.

Howdy to Lin and John son of John. Michelle has started a list of the stuff we used and didn't use on this trip to use when planning next year's trip.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 10:11 PM

Uncle Phil -

John son of John has been to WVA a couple of times, but came in late and pretended to be a "virgin."¹ He lugged his banjo around the lakeside for several hours and then collapsed in his car and spent most of the night² with his head hanging out of the dooor so he wouldn't mess up the upholstery. Of course he claimed it was "that slop he ate at the last truck stop." (?)

The old truck actually got us home, with the trailer parked in the back yard; but I skipped the dump station due to the marginal capabilities. The replacement was on the lot at the Winfield dealer where I had the last emergency repairs done, so I made preliminary arrangements Monday and had to nurse the old hunk back on Thursday after the Seattle bank cut the check and got it to them for the new one. The worst part was that I had to unload the old one in only two days - including removing all the stuff like the brake control, CB, and other "add-ons," and putting the 5 seats back in (removed and stored for about 12 years). Two weeks is a more normal time for getting all the camping stuff out.

The old one had factory installed heavy trailer equipment, so it was actually quite adequate for our little trailer with a rated trailer capacity at 6,000 lb - and the dealer did all the hitch work when we bought the trailer. All the "new" Chevy trucks have "trailer wiring" pre-installed, but this one is a "farm truck" without fancy factory stuff, so I still have to get a hitch on it and get the brake control wiring done. It's rated to tow a paltry 4,300 lb, so it's "adequate" for our trailer if we don't go out often; but it was something of a puzzle as to how much I'll be able to put in the truck while towing our 3,600 lb (<4,200 lb loaded, I think) house.

I managed to measure an accurate "tongue load" with a bathroom scale and some blocks and boards yesterday, and found (after much searching) a "public scale³" where I got "curb weight" and axle loads measured on the new truck today, and it all looks workable. Truck payload (in the bed) with the trailer on will only be about 790 lb if I observe the axle load ratings (to keep the warranties good) but I could go 1,850 lb and be within GCWR to keep the ICC and NTHSC guys happy. It's the smallest "full-size" pick'emup Chevy sold for 2008, I think - 1500 Silverado WT. With the same little 6-banger engine as in the old truck, even with 14 years of "evolutionary improvements" I will not be "towing briskly."

Once I get the hitch on the truck, I'll intend to go back to the scale and get an accurate trailer weight, so if there are no unexpected delays in hitching up I'll leave it loaded until then. I've never bothered to do that, since the old van had fairly safe margins; but will feel guilty if I don't since the new truck is closer to limits. If my estimates turn out to be less accurate than I think they are, I suppose I'll just claim I don't know any better like most of the rest of the people who pull something.

The real point though is that I can't unload from Winfield until I get hitched up and in motion, and I'm already into the "loading" stage for next year.

¹ For those who haven't been there, "Winfield Virgins" - those there for the first time - are a sort of special tradition of the campgrounds. They are treated with very special (dis)respect, and are the victims beneficiaries of every lie bit of historical fact and advice more seasoned campers can invent. Lin says that "virginity grows back if you don't use it for six years." (She claimed to be one when I met her.) John s. o. John hadn't gone quite six years without a Winfield, but maybe that form grows back quicker.

² In the Winfield campgrounds, "night" usually begins sometime after 2 am, for those there to "enjoy." I think he made it to about 03:00.

³ Interestingly, the instructions at the public scale were to drive on the scale and push the "red button" to notify the people inside that you needed weighed. The "red button" was about 11 feet above ground level (window height on most semi tractors, I guess?) and far above what I could jump to from scale level. I had to find a three foot long board to whack the button in order to get weighed. Next time I'll be sure I take a ladder or at least a long walkin' stick.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST,East Texas Red
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 10:19 PM

I didn't go for the first time in years because of the weather and have been kicking myself ever since. It sounds like a missed a good one.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Art Thieme
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 10:27 PM

Red, a few years back I recorded Woody's song about you! I'd thought you had died!? From all I hears, the weather never would've stopped you...

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: GUEST,mn
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 10:46 AM

June

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 07:38 PM

Hey folks --

I finally got the 2008 Winfield photos up on our Website. Phil has much better flood pictures, but you may enjoy paging through these, just for the flavor.

Enjoy!

Lin

Click here.

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 08:31 AM

Thanks, Lin. Some handsome couples out there by the lake, but I liked James' tee shirt the best. The pictures of the evacuation were interesting to see after hearing so many stories about it.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 09:33 PM

Epilog: Muchelle's cousin from Winfield was here in Texas recently and he says that the city council is determined not to have another "Woodstock at the Lake" in 2009. They plan to enforce all the normal park rules – paid camping in designated spot only, quiet time after 10 PM, and a curfew.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 10:35 PM

That would be what I'd expected, and the "designated spot only" bit means that all the designated spots have already been reserved for next year's time period, if few enough of the regulars weren't completely demoralized by our invasion. Tenters might get in, but anything with wheels has to have the wheels on a slab in normal times; and all the slabs were full before anyone from WVA arrived last year.

We're still running into some who claim they intend to go back to Oxford instead of the the fairgrounds next year. They're all "really sure" that Oxford will welcome them back, but I haven't heard from the ones(?) who've actually checked that out with Oxford.

I don't think I've heard anyone hoping to go back to the auction barn though.

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 10:36 PM

lol, I don't think you'll hear of anyone intentionally setting out to camp and the auction barn, though it was a good port in a storm this year. The folks who camped in Oxford only have nice things to say about it, and cuz says the good citizens of Oxford were happy to have so may tourists in town so who knows. I certainly expect Carp Camp and Front Porch Radio to be back on the Fairgrounds, but also expect some of the people who discovered Oxford this year to camp there next year.
- Phil

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 02:49 AM

Uncle Phil -

It actually has been people from the "Irish establishment" - including some from Carp Camp - that we've heard talking the most about camping at Oxford. (That could be because most of the people we've talked to are Carpers or "associated fringe-Irish loiterers.")

Rumors about this were circulating at the KBA outing (at Winfield in October) with one or two people asserting that "someone" is already making reservations for "a group" at Oxford. The only problem was that the various sources didn't show much agreement on who "someone" is or which group was making the plans, so it was hard to tell who knew something, who only "heard something" and who was just hoping out loud.

The lake might be attractive to some, since pets are allowed there; and a few people who've found out that it's a fairly comfortable campsite might try it for that reason. Pet boarding near Winfield is somewhat limited relative to the demand, and fairly expensive. We were told a few years back when we considered it for that reason that there was no space available - for that year or for the next.

I wouldn't expect significant numbers to be able to camp at the lake under "ordinary rules," due to the full-booking of available spaces by regular lake "residents." Oxford could draw a fairly large group, but it will depend on whether Oxford is organized enough to do some realistic planning and get the necessary community agreement on what the rules are (and which of them will be enforced).

John

Subject: RE: WVA 2008 - Winfield Festival
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 09:57 AM

John -
There should be a lot of "associated fringe-Irish loiterers" here in March for NTIF. I'll ask around then.

Oxford does have advantages including two big, concrete-floor picnic pavillions and is only 10 minutes from the fairgrounds (half the the time it takes me to drive into town to work everyday). I expect you are right, Oxford could draw a good crowd but only if they get organized and work it.
- Phil