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Palindromes

NormanD 04 Aug 08 - 08:22 AM
NormanD 04 Aug 08 - 08:24 AM
GUEST,neovo 04 Aug 08 - 08:30 AM
GUEST,Gerry 04 Aug 08 - 08:34 AM
Jack Blandiver 04 Aug 08 - 08:45 AM
NormanD 04 Aug 08 - 09:29 AM
Linda Kelly 04 Aug 08 - 09:45 AM
Georgiansilver 04 Aug 08 - 09:57 AM
NormanD 04 Aug 08 - 10:32 AM
John on the Sunset Coast 04 Aug 08 - 11:37 AM
katlaughing 04 Aug 08 - 11:43 AM
GUEST,woodsie 04 Aug 08 - 12:58 PM
Nigel Parsons 04 Aug 08 - 01:20 PM
Nigel Parsons 04 Aug 08 - 01:27 PM
semi-submersible 04 Aug 08 - 02:16 PM
Georgiansilver 04 Aug 08 - 03:56 PM
Phil Edwards 04 Aug 08 - 04:07 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 04 Aug 08 - 04:17 PM
GUEST,rich 04 Aug 08 - 09:25 PM
semi-submersible 05 Aug 08 - 04:27 AM
Jack Blandiver 05 Aug 08 - 04:46 AM
Phil Edwards 05 Aug 08 - 05:52 AM
Liz the Squeak 05 Aug 08 - 06:35 AM
Jack Blandiver 05 Aug 08 - 07:02 AM
Newport Boy 05 Aug 08 - 07:12 AM
George Papavgeris 05 Aug 08 - 10:16 AM
Georgiansilver 05 Aug 08 - 11:53 AM
George Papavgeris 05 Aug 08 - 12:07 PM
iancarterb 05 Aug 08 - 05:24 PM
Georgiansilver 05 Aug 08 - 06:49 PM
Rowan 05 Aug 08 - 07:52 PM
Don Firth 05 Aug 08 - 08:34 PM
GUEST,John Gray in Oz ( at work ) 06 Aug 08 - 02:59 AM
pavane 06 Aug 08 - 03:40 AM
GUEST,baladeer 06 Aug 08 - 09:58 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 07 Aug 08 - 02:06 PM
GUEST,Robert le Diable 07 Aug 08 - 02:20 PM
Mr Red 07 Aug 08 - 06:30 PM
GUEST,Simon 07 Aug 08 - 06:43 PM
GUEST 07 Aug 08 - 06:44 PM
GUEST,leeneia 10 Aug 08 - 08:53 PM
GUEST,Dave Hatton 05 May 09 - 06:48 PM
Jack Campin 05 May 09 - 07:00 PM
Tug the Cox 05 May 09 - 07:57 PM
GUEST,Bethany 05 May 09 - 10:01 PM
Tug the Cox 06 May 09 - 11:16 AM
fretless 06 May 09 - 11:23 AM
fretless 06 May 09 - 11:24 AM
Nigel Parsons 06 May 09 - 11:52 AM
GUEST,Ken Brock 06 May 09 - 03:49 PM
GUEST,Ken Brock 06 May 09 - 03:49 PM
Tug the Cox 07 May 09 - 05:37 AM
Cod Fiddler 07 May 09 - 08:54 AM
GUEST,Slag 07 May 09 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 07 May 09 - 04:31 PM
Allen in Oz 07 May 09 - 10:01 PM
Eve Goldberg 07 May 09 - 10:48 PM
Slag 08 May 09 - 12:49 AM
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Subject: Palindromes
From: NormanD
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 08:22 AM

Maybe this will get covered to exhaustion in the current thread re. Baby Gramps. And apologies if this theme has previously been mentioned / squeezed dry....

Are there any songs that include palindromes - successive words rather than just single words (eg using the name Eve)?

I've often thought of a singing group called The Palindromes. With a name like that they would have to be a doo-wop group. They could start with:
Lead singer "Woo woo"
Harmony    "Oow woo"

etc etc


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: NormanD
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 08:24 AM

Sorry, I should have checked that one before posting.

The response, of course, should be "Oow oow"

Anyway, real examples sought.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,neovo
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 08:30 AM

I'm confused! I thought a palindrome was a word that spells the same in both directions eg "madam" and ~"rotor".


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 08:34 AM

Somewhere on YouTube there's a Weird Al Yankovic parody of an early Dylan video clip where Weird Al does a song to the tune of Dylan's 115th Dream but with every line a palindrome. I think there's a link to it in some thread here that you could probably find easily enough with a search for some keyword.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 08:45 AM

My favourite sung palindrome has to be:

Peel's foe, not a set animal, laminates a tone of sleep

From the classic Kew: Rhone album by John Greaves and Peter Blegvad.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: NormanD
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:29 AM

Quote:
"I'm confused! I thought a palindrome was a word that spells the same in both directions eg "madam" and ~"rotor"."

OK, should be "Woo oow".

The Palindromes have just been dropped from their record label for not living up to their promising name. Singers Hannah, Bob, Viv, Lil, Anna and Nitin are severely disappointed.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:45 AM

Napoleon -Able I was ere I saw Elba


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:57 AM

A man, a plan, a canal, Panama.
Sit on a potato pan Otis.
Rats live on no evil star.
satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
Mr owl ate my metal worm.
Was it a rat I saw?


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: NormanD
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 10:32 AM

Have any of these palindromic sentences ever appeared in songs? That's what I'm looking for, please.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 11:37 AM

Palindromes are fields from which palins take off and land.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 11:43 AM

Linda, isn't the first "I" out of place when you read it back? I don't do these very well, but I *think* I am reading it right.:-)


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,woodsie
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 12:58 PM

That excellent Grateful Dead album "Aoxomoxoa"


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 01:20 PM

Kat,
Yes, it should read "Able was I, ere I saw Elba"


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 01:27 PM

A palindrome is a word or phrase where the letter sequence reads the same from either end. Or, to put it another way, when the sides are reversed it remains the same. Thus:
"Able was I, ere I saw Elba" sides reversed is "Able was I, ere I saw Elba"
Ia a palindrome almost 3 times the size of the original!


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: semi-submersible
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 02:16 PM

A musical phrase or a number like "1001" can also be a palindrome. On a road trip my family sometimes used to watch the odometer at a moment when either a round number, or a palindrome was about to be displayed.

"palins take off and land" - good one!


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 03:56 PM

So What is a Hippodrome then?


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 04:07 PM

Hey, someone's mentioned Peter Blegvad!

I find Peter Blegvad the most fascinating but also the most frustrating artist. For me his albums divide into two groups, "play until they wear out" and "play once or twice, go Hmmm, leave to gather dust" - and for me Kew.Rhone is in the second group. I saw an interview with him once where he was talking about what a difficult album it was to make, & at one point he says something like "Plus I was going mad at the time" - which is pretty much what it sounds like to me. I should probably give it another go. (And Orpheus. And Camera.)

Back when I used to do covers, incidentally, I did more songs by Blegvad than anyone else - 10 in all, or 11 if you count "I don't believe you've met my baby" (which I know from his version).

Weird Al's 'Bob' is here. Peel's foe isn't here, but plenty of longish palindromes are.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 04:17 PM

Otto = toot
Oppo = poop


Words that are palindromes which, when everted, become different palindromes.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,rich
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:25 PM

Doc note: I dissent. A fast never prevents a fatness. I diet on cod.


Lew Otto has a hot towel


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: semi-submersible
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 04:27 AM

"What is a Hippodrome then?"

A place for horses to take off and run: from Greek hippos = horse, dromos = course. According to Wikipedia the ancient Greeks ran more than ten chariots abreast sometimes; what a brutal pile-up rounding the posts!

Sorry I can't manage to make a palindrome of any of it.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 04:46 AM

Kew.Rhone, legendarily released on the same day as Never Mind the Bollocks - and I bought it that day too, eagerly awaited etc. being utterly dispirited by punk by that point, when The Fall were just getting their shit together before blowing us all away in 1979 with the astonishing Live at the Witch Trials, which, along with Unknown Pleasures, restored my faith in popular music. So Kew.Rhone in context, Autumn 1977, prog's last defiant stand, though we still had the Art Bears albums to come, and a couple of belters from National Health, and all that other RIO shit which is maybe best forgotten, though I still harbour affections for Univers Zero. All I remember of Kew.Rhone, however, is the Peel's Foe palindrome and John Greaves perfect delivery of What have I to do with Bradshaw's Windmill?. Can't have heard it in over 25 years...

If you've got a copy, you couldn't burn me one for tomorrow night could you?


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 05:52 AM

No problem.

Art Bears - that brings back memories. I got Hopes and Fears and immediately wrote a play about power and lies throughout human history - it began in the garden of Eden and ended in a psychiatric hospital, on a perversely positive note ("Given time she can think it through...") Never produced, perhaps fortunately. I sold the album shortly after that.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 06:35 AM

Malayalam is the only language that is a palindrome.

That's today's useless information.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:02 AM

What larks, Pip! I'll look forward to that.

And talking of larks, it's been an absolute joy unearthing piles of my old vinyl of late, seeing what's extant, and what is sadly missing. Hopes & Fears is still there, and still looking (and sounding) glorious, as is the follow up Winter Songs which for all intents and purposes might be considered a folk album, as CC eschews the usual polemics for a genuinely poetic interpretation of certain medieval carvings. I've even got their third album, which shows a degree of commitment, or just a love of Dagmar... Odd how I never got any of this on CD though, unlike Soft Machine, whose classic incarnations have been perfectly served by some choice live & session releases over the last decade, so much so their actual album history has been rather belittled, saving the first two of course which are about as perfect as it gets. I did pick up the Casablanca Moon / Desperate Straights CD for a fiver in Action Records a few weeks back though; two more classic Blegvads!

From Hopes & Fears: Self-love deals in force and reaction; love of others in self-criticism and revolution. And I quote that without referring to the cover!


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Newport Boy
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:12 AM

LTS - not useless, but not quite true. I knew of Aja, and when I looked it up I also found Ewe. I suspect there's a few more among the 2000 African languages.

Extract from Wikipedia:

Ewe (native name: Eʋegbe) is a Kwa language spoken in Ghana, Togo and Benin by approximately five million people. Ewe is part of a cluster of related languages commonly called Gbe, stretching from eastern Ghana to western Nigeria. Other Gbe languages include Fon and Aja. Like other Gbe languages, Ewe is a tonal language.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 10:16 AM

Mum. Dad. Sis. Pop. Tit. LOL.
Palin = again, hence palindrome = "repeating course". I only know a Byzantine good one, which every Greek knows, as it was inscribed around a small fountain at the entrance to the Aghia Sophia church in Istanbul, and dates (I believe) from the 14th century AD:

NI@ON ANOMIMATA MI MONAN O@IN

(where @ = the Greek letter for the sound "ps")
It means "Wash the sins, not just the face"

Then again, there is Monty Python's Notlob....


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 11:53 AM

Earliest according to Wikipedia is from Herculaneum in 79 ad    and consists of "Sator arepo tenet operas rotas" which I believe was carved into a building or a rock.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:07 PM

Fascinating, Georgiansilver. But it has one S too many - it should be "SATOR AREPO OPERA ROTAS", otherwise it doesn't work out. Indeed, in the picture on this page you can see the spelling clearly. The thing about this phrase is that it is a "square palindrome"; when written one word below the other, it reads the same left to right, right to left, top to bottom and bottom to top.

S A T O R
A R E P O
T E N E T
O P E R A
R O T A S

Apparently (I just read the accompanying text on that page) the early Christians used it as a secret communication between them, as it contains the letters for "PATER NOSTER" (our Father) twice, leaving over only the letters A and O twiice (as in "the Alpha and the Omega", referring to God).
And though it appears in Naturalis Historia by Pliny (who died in 79AD), it looks like the inscripition is somewhat earlier.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: iancarterb
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 05:24 PM

I have never heard or seen in print a song with more than accidental palindromes, not even from Baby Gramps. I did see (in print only) a 2 page drama by a now deceased judge on a King County (Seattle) Superior Court bench of which he apparently wrote snippets when the testimony got more repetitive than usual. He was apparently regarded as extremely attentive, always taking notes.:) If I could lay hands on it again perhaps it could be made into a teeny-weeny opera. It made as much sense as most lengthy palindromes- you have to be willing to draw the pictures as the description goes, to play it where it lies.
Carter


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 06:49 PM

OOPS yes George.. that was my error of course... thank you. Fascinating how they make up into the square


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Rowan
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:52 PM

leaving over only the letters A and O twiice (as in "the Alpha and the Omega",

The ego's "i" doubling up in such a sentence was really sweet, George; good one!

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:34 PM

The world's first palindrome:

"Madam, I'm Adam."

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,John Gray in Oz ( at work )
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 02:59 AM

We manufacture a liquid level measuring device called a " Magnetic Rotor Level Indicator."

JG / FME


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: pavane
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 03:40 AM

I think the point about Monty Python's Notlob was Michael Palin's name!

Maybe, as above, "Palindromes are fields from which palins take off and "land.

(As they discussed in the sketch, Notlob is not a palindrome of Bolton)


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,baladeer
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 09:58 PM

On the CD titled "A Great Big Western Howdy!" by Riders in the Sky, there is a song called "The Ballad of Palindrome", done as one of those radio serial dramas, with music that parodies the theme song from "Palladin", where the main character (Palindrome, of course), only speaks in, well .... guess what?! It's a real hoot! Although there are many of the "classic" ones already mentioned, the whole 3 minute, 51 second piece is just filled with them, like when asked if he ponders theological questions, he answers "Do geese see God?, or when the barmaid (Lil)asks him if he wants to come back to her room, he says "sex at noon taxes!". Enjoy!
Rich Bala


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 02:06 PM

For all you high rollers out there, the name Harrah should ring a bell or two. How many proper names are palindromes?


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,Robert le Diable
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 02:20 PM

With a bit of mis-spelling, there's also "lewd did I live & evil I did dwel". That one seems a likely contender for easiest to use as a line in a song.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 06:30 PM

Abba


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,Simon
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 06:43 PM

Dennis, Nell, Edna, Leon, Nedra, Anita, Rolf, Nora, Alice, Carol, Leo, Jane, Reed, Dena, Dale, Basil, Rae, Penny, Lana, Dave, Denny, Lena, Ida, Bernadette, Ben, Ray, Lila, Nina, Jo, Ira, Mara, Sara, Mario, Jan, Ina, Lily, Arne, Bette, Dan, Reba, Diane, Lynn, Ed, Eva, Dana, Lynne, Pearl, Isabel, Ada, Ned, Dee, Rena, Joel, Lora, Cecil, Aaron, Flora, Tina, Arden, Noel, and Ellen sinned


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 06:44 PM

Gateman sees name, garageman sees nametag.
I roamed uned it as a tired, nude Maori.

iirc Hofstedler has some references to musical palindrones in Bach in "Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Thread".


    Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
    Thanks.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 08:53 PM

This is fun. It helps to know that there was once a cowboy show on TV called 'Paladin.' (Few people knew at the time that a paladin is a wandering knight.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIew2cksMv8&feature=related


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,Dave Hatton
Date: 05 May 09 - 06:48 PM

Interesting to see Blegvad's albums discussed here; I too fall into the 'what on earth is Kew.Rhone for' camp and yet I love most of Peter Blegvad's work. I'm afraid that I'd rather have a warning on the front of his albums, telling me if the CD inside is an avant-garde experiment in atonalism rather than a delightful folk-rock experience.
Hey-ho. Each to their own!


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 May 09 - 07:00 PM

I can cite you a TV show in Croatian:

Ana voli Milovana

or a book/film with the title a Latin palindrome:

In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 05 May 09 - 07:57 PM

For all you p[ooch lovers.


Dog as a devil deified,
deified lived as a god.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,Bethany
Date: 05 May 09 - 10:01 PM

P[ooch? Tug, I think you need to improve your typing.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 06 May 09 - 11:16 AM

No, its the only way to guarantee a reponse. LOL.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: fretless
Date: 06 May 09 - 11:23 AM

Just found this thread -- George (with apologies for a delayed response to your postings from last summer), I would usually transcribe the Greek plaindrome with an "e" rather than an "i" to reflect the letter eta (Íßøïí áíïìÞìáôá ìç ìüíáí üøéí); or nipson anomemata me monan opsin.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: fretless
Date: 06 May 09 - 11:24 AM

Wow! The Greek text (in brackets) looked fine before I hit the submit button.


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 May 09 - 11:52 AM

Tug:

I thought your name was the best way to ensure a response!


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,Ken Brock
Date: 06 May 09 - 03:49 PM

Whatever Beatles song immediately preceeded "The One After 909", which of course would have the alternate title "909".


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,Ken Brock
Date: 06 May 09 - 03:49 PM

maybe it was "Anna"


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 07 May 09 - 05:37 AM

Nigel, whatever can you mean?


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Cod Fiddler
Date: 07 May 09 - 08:54 AM

A pallindromic riddle in latin for good measure:

In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

At night we go round in circles and are consumed by fire

Answer: Moths


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 07 May 09 - 03:52 PM

I have sometimes used the name, Core de Roc, in online gaming. A few get it.

WOW MOM! Invert and read.

The last episode of Twin Peaks used "Wow Bob Wow."

Palin Drone, a Sarah Palin speech?

Paladins roam.

Pallid chrome, or...home or ...foam, etc.

emit time


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 07 May 09 - 04:31 PM

Wasn't that the big hangar in Orange County where they stored blimps during WWII?? Some horn player named Otto told me that....


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Allen in Oz
Date: 07 May 09 - 10:01 PM

In Australia we have two towns which are palindromic ,viz.

Glenelg and Tumut


Mum and Dad told me that

Allen in Oz


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Eve Goldberg
Date: 07 May 09 - 10:48 PM

The song "UFO Tofu" on Bela Fleck and the Flecktone's album of the same name is supposedly a musical palindrome. I think that means if you played the melody backwards it would be exactly the same song. No words, though!


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Subject: RE: Palindromes
From: Slag
Date: 08 May 09 - 12:49 AM

I love word play and often read things backwards or anagram words that appear to have potential. One day in the TV listings I came across "Hoop Dreams"! Except for the "e" and the "a" it looks very messy.


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