Folklore: Art's new thought...

Subject: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Art Thieme
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 07:20 PM

Contemplating the thread about the whereabouts of American folk audiences, this popped into my head recently.

If we keep on getting nostalgic about things which are more and more recent, pretty soon we'll all be forced to live in the present.

Art

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Peace
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 07:23 PM

And not long after that--in relative terms--we'll all be nostalgic for the future.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 07:30 PM

So it's best to just "Be Here Now!"??

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 07:45 PM

Which reminds me of that movie Back To The Future. In that movie, the "present" of the main character's family is significantly changed for the better because the character's father {as a teenager} faced a challenge and {as I recall it} confronted a bully instead of wimping out.

Is it worth wondering how today's folk scene/s would have been different {better?} if certain challenges were faced differently?

For instance, in the Philly Folk Festival thread thread.cfm?threadid=113341&messages=33#2418046 I posted a comment asking whether there were a significant number of non-White attendees at that folk festival and if not, whether people knew of any USA or British folk festival where there were a significant number of Black and other non-White attendees.

I wonder what, if anything, could have been done differently so that "folk music" wouldn't be considered by many non-White people {imo} to be "White music".

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 08:07 PM

Azizi - I think an early sign that there was a problem was that "Blues" was considered a genre unto itself instead of folk music, which it really is.

If you have a chance, watch the movie "Festival", the brilliant documentary on the original Newport Folk Festival of the early 1960's. You will see a number of African-American performers, but not too many are noticed in the audience.

I always live by Satchel Paige's motto - don't look back, the past might be gaining on you!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 08:22 PM

Good point, Art about not looking back.

But...one of the most popular symbols that African Americans use to represent pride in African culture is Sankofa, a symbol that represents the importance of learning from the past. The proverb for Sankofa is that "It's never too late to go back and claim it" {which is interpreted as having pride in and going back and reclaiming African heritage}.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but even if Blues had been considered part of the "folk genre", when Blues became separated from its dance performances {and I think for other reasons having to do with African American preferences for new styles in music, dance, languaging, fashion etc and {generally speaking] what appears to me to be our disregard for and disrespect of what is considered "old"} I think that most African Americans still would have turned their backs on Blues music.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 12:26 AM

Azizi,
I think you must hear Andrew Calhoun's latest CD---BOUND TO GO--Folk Songs and Spirituals. To say that I sincerely recommend this to you is a massive understatement. I think that even you might find pieces of lore and songs from the Afro American traditions that hadn't been detected by your radar. And I would definitely love to hear your feelings about this CD. I could be off the mark here, but I think not. The CD is on Andrew's Waterbug Records label at:

www.waterbug.com

Art

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 01:30 AM

Let me apologize to Ron & Art for attributing Ron's quote of Satchel Paige's motto - don't look back, the past might be gaining on you! to Ron.

And sorry about that sentence...I tried to make it clearer but it's early/late so that's the best I could do.

**

Art, thanks for recommending that CD to me and to others, in the process, I'm sure. I'm definitely interested in purchasing it.

Here is more information about that CD and the song list from that CD's page on that website:
http://waterbug.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=404&osCsid=dcfd5cdf3578377e72e90128542bdc0f


"Bound to Go includes authentic spirituals, shout songs from the Sea Islands, prison ballads and rare secular folk songs. "Run to Jesus" is the song that first gave Frederick Douglass the notion of escaping from slavery. With an essay and historical/folklore notes on the songs. Recorded with trumpet, fretless gourd and 5-string banjo, guitars, fiddle, cello, harmonica, piano, percussion and many wonderful singers! 72 minutes running time. Cover painting by Gullah artist Jonathan Green. In memory of Joy Calhoun, who worked for justice in the Civil Rights movement, 10% of income from sales goes to support programs for children, half to College of Charleston's African-American history camps, half to Williams Preparatory Academy Arts programs, 2710 S. Dearborn in Chicago.(www.jonathangreenstudios.com)

Blow Your Trumpet Gabriel (featuring Runako Robinson, vocals)
Roll, Jordan, Roll
Turkle Dove (featuring Casey Calhoun, vocals)
Bound to Go
O'er the Crossing
Come & Go with Me
Run to Jesus
Patrol Gonna Catch You (featuring Bob Soper, fiddle)
Molly Cottontail
Old Man's Song
Sandy Land
Jaybird & Sparrow
Sheep and Goat (featuring Darwin Walton, hambone)
Them Ol' Black Gnats (featuring Big Llou Johnson, vocals)
Milly Biggers (featuring Katherine Davis, vocals)
Go to Sleep, My Baby (featuring Tyisha Williams, vocals)
Rough and Rolling Sea (featuring Valerie Carter-Brown, vocals)
Four and Twenty Elders
Wake Up Jacob (featuring Darwin McBeth Walton, vocals)
Anchor Line (featuring Dave Moore, harmonica)
Sun Don't Set in the Morning (featuring Tyisha Williams, vocals)
Way Up on the Mountain (featuring Big Llou Johnson, vocals)
Hammerin' Judgment
Ol' Egyp' (featuring Fred Campeau, fretless gourd banjo)
Calvary
Run Mary Run (featuring Runako Robinson, vocals)
Uncle Billy
Ol' Elder Brown (featuring Erwin Helfer, piano)
No More Cane on the Brazos
Lost John
Back Home in Georgia
I'll Hear the Trumpet Sound (featuring Lana Ferrante Lupiani, cello)
Open the Window, Noah
Michael Haul the Boat Ashore (featuring Sue Demel, vocals)
Tree of Life (featuring Katherine Davis and Tony Dale, vocals, and David Young, trumpet)

**
Since there are lots of "authentic spirituals, shout songs from the Sea Islands, prison ballads and rare secular folk songs" from African American traditions that I don't know, I'm not surprised to find out that I don't know all the songs on that CD. But I am surprised to learn that I don't know most of the songs listed.

I'm excited about hearing this CD. It "sounds" like it will sound wonderful and the community efforts that a portion of the sales price supports are definitely worthwhile.

After I listen to this CD, I'll post a comment on this thread about it. And, hopefully, others will too.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: kendall
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 06:12 AM

Steve Romanoff of the trio, Schooner Fare once commented on nostalgia saying, "Can't you just picture the teen agers of today in 30 years or so, what will they have for nostalgia? standing around the old upright synthecizer trying to remember three words from Twisted Sister".

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 07:30 AM

Who was it said "Nostalgia isnt what it used to be" ?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: kendall
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 09:09 AM

Yogi Bara

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Mark Ross
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 09:28 AM

Lead, that was Lee Hayes. He said, "Nostalgia isn't what it used to be, and what's more it never was!"

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 10:06 AM

Lee Hays said, "The future ain't what it's cracked up to be and once more it never was."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 10:32 AM

I think Lee Hays might have been paraphrasing Will Rogers..."Things ain't what they used to be - and probably never was."

It seems to me that many people get nostalgic about a lot of things they weren't so crazy about the first time around!

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 11:41 AM

"It seems to me that many people get nostalgic about a lot of things they weren't so crazy about the first time around!"

Kind of like the 50s. *g*

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: M.Ted
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 02:55 PM

"Twisted Sister" broke up twenty one years ago, Kendall, but the prophecy won't come true--no one tries to remember the words to anything anymore, they just google them.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 05:44 PM

"Can't you just picture the teen agers of today in 30 years or so, what will they have for nostalgia?"

Along the same lines, kendall, I ask myself, 'Do damsels of today sigh with love and then compose an air called 'Purple-haired Boy.'?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 08:17 PM

You folks might recall that I called my own CD on Andrew's Waterbug label The Older I Get, The Better I Was! -- Such is life.

-- Someone once said, "I have outlived my own context." --- I don't recall who said it though.

Art

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 10:29 PM

"Oh, how I yearn for the days before all this nostalgia"

    Bill D

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 11:31 PM

If people don't want to come to the game there's nothing you can do to stop 'em. (Yogi Berra)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Peace
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 11:41 PM

I never realized how funny Yogi Berra was until I was in my early fifties. I think I just long for a simpler time. Brings to mind that Merle Haggart song:

I wish a buck was still silver and it was back when the country was strong.
Back before Elvis and before the Vietnam war came along.
Before the Beatles and yesterday when a man could still work and still would.
Is the best of the free life behind us now and are the good times really over for good ?

Are we rollin' downhill like a snowball headed for hell?
With no kind of chance for the flag or the liberty bell?
I wish a Ford or a Chevy would still last ten years like they should.
Is the best of the free life behind us now and are the good times really over for good?

I wish Coke was still cola and a joint was a bad place to be.
It was back before Nixon lied to us all on TV.
Before Microwave ovens when a girl could still cook, and still would.
Is the best of the free life behind us now and are the good times really over for good ?

Are we rollin' downhill like a snowball headed for hell?
With no kind of chance for the flag or the liberty bell?
I wish a Ford or a Chevy would still last ten years like they should.
Is the best of the free life behind us now and are the good times really over for good?

Stop rollin' downhill like a snowball headed for hell.
Standup for the flag, and let's all ring the liberty bell.
Let's make a Ford and a Chevy that'll still last ten years like they should...
The best of the free life is still yet to come and the good times ain't really

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: GUEST,Marymac90
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 02:24 AM

Interesting comments, Azizi...

An African-American singer I like, Vance Gilbert, performs at
folk fests, (notably Falcon Ridge, for one), and frequently
uses a line about "being one of the few choco;ate chips in
the cookie" from the stage.

As a white social worker who works in a majority African-
American setting, I have a fairly good vantage point to view
the cultural differences. I think the dislike of what's "old"
is very noticable among African-Americans. We show a movie
each week, and "old" movies, even if they feature African-
American actors, are not highly favored.

I think for festivals to draw a noticable number of African-Americans, a substantial amount of attention must be paid to
how to make that happen. One cultural difference is that the
great majority of African-Americans do not have fond memories
of tent camping with their families or scout troops. Some do
have memories of it in re: to military service, but that may
not be a "fond" memory. If I were trying to plan a fest that
might attract a substantial number of African-Americans, I
would either plan a one-day festival, or plan one in an urban
area where there are hotels, or where people might have a
friend whom they could ask to put them up overnight.

Secondly, I think one would need to have a certain number of
"known" African-American performers on the bill. Since jazz festivals do draw a substantial number of African-Americans,
I would suggest branching out in that direction.

One thing to remember is that while we focus on race and
racism, another factor that slides through almost invisibly
in the US, (not so invisibly in the UK, I think) is class and classism. People who are just scraping by don't have the
money for expensive tickets. People who use public transit
have no way to get to a fest that's out in the country. Then
if you do get to a festival somehow, if they don't have the
kinds of food you're used to eating, you're not going to feel
very much at home.

Pete and Toshi Seeger and other Clearwater festival planners
have done a lot of work to make their fest accessible and
inviting to people with disabilities. The fact that it is accessible by train from NYC also makes it possible for people
who don't have cars. And I think they do cross over into jazz
with some of the acts on their bill. (I haven't been to
Clearwater lately, so I don't know for sure who they've had in recent years.)

Common Ground on the Hill, the music and dance "camp" at the \college that used to be called Western Maryland University,
has also made a concerted effort. They offer courses in
African dance and gospel singing that are taken by many white attendees. They give svcholarshios to African-American
children fromm the town, and they often take Appalachian dance. They always feature a course called Martin and Malcolm, which
looks at social change from their perspectives and others.

To appeal to people of all races takes more than just
repealing Jim Crow Laws, it takes cultivating cultural
understanding and PLANNING.

Marymac

Subject: RE: Folklore: Art's new thought...
From: Art Thieme
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 10:14 AM

Marymac,
Yours are wise and practical "new thoughts" for what has become a better thread than I thought it might. Well planned festivals (venue folks in general) are, sadly, often undervalued and taken for granted.

Art Thieme