'5000 Morris Dancers'

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 06:25 PM

By that way, that was 600. And I wasn't even trying. I'm laying in wait to be The Mark of the Beast.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: s&r
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 06:40 PM

Some old English examples of songs accompanied by chords

The first is a theorbo - first time Ive seen one played.

So if that's not authentic what is?

Stu

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 04:07 AM

Here is something WAV might like to consider, especially as regards his top-line melody theory.

http://www.wgma.org.uk/Articles/intro.htm

In parish records all around the country, details of the setting-up of singing groups may be found. Often this is in the form of an agreement, and this one from Alberbury in Shropshire made in 1788 is typical.


It was agreed by the Majority of a Parish Meeting of the Parishioners ... that the parish should be at the Expence of paying a Proper Person to improve and instruct any Young People that are willing to sing Psalms (to the Glory of God) in the said Church.

The next entries are for payments for meat and drink for the singers, to a Mr Michiner for instructing the psalm singers, and for the purchase of five psalm books. The only item missing from the Alberbury churchwardens' accounts is the purchase of a pitch-pipe. This was a wooden whistle or recorder-like pipe with a sliding insert which could be moved in and out to vary the pitch. Such an instrument had become necessary because the groups usually sang in three- or four-part harmony.

The early west gallery singing was, with only a few exceptions, dominated by male voices. In much of the early music the melody line is given to the tenor, with an underpinning bass harmony, contra-tenor as a counter. and a treble voice or voices above. As far as we have been able to discover, most early groups sang unaccompanied, but plainly, with limited local resources, often with little schooling, it would have been difficult for relatively untutored singers to hold their lines against other parts. This is probably the most significant single reason for the introduction of instruments. Fiddles would almost certainly have been available within village communities, but the cost of bass instruments would have been beyond the pockets of the middling tradesmen and artisans who made up the groups.

When reading old records one can almost detect a feeling of pride in the parish accounts when their subscriptions raised enough for the purchase of a bass viol, 'cello, bassoon, or serpent. Later purchases might have included an oboe (although it was more often called an hautbois, hoby, hotboy, etc.), a clarinet, and a flute, or flutes. The instruments were not grouped together as a band; instead, each instrument led a group of singers who would normally gather around the player, as in the marvellous painting of a village quire on the cover of the Watersons' 'Sound, Sound your Instruments of Joy'. In most parish accounts they remained 'the psalm singers' despite the addition of instruments, and they often cost a considerable proportion of the parish spending.

Too poor to afford a printed hymn book for each member of the quire, the musicians would lovingly copy out the words and scores into their personal tune-books, the instrumentalists often adding the dance tunes of the period in the back of the book.

There is no doubt that the mixed groups of instrumentalists and singers which we refer to as 'quires' to distinguish them for the organ-driven, surpliced latter-day groups, became very important in parish life. Those who played for the singing in church would also have played a major part in parish social life on feast days, high days and holidays. They had status within parish society, the nature of their jobs often gave them a measure of independence, and they were not infrequently in conflict with the parson or the squire. Their music often travelled far and wide, and in surprising forms.

......

Why would trad songs have necessarily been treated differently, and not sung in parts or with instruments playing more than the top-line melody? Granted, if you were singing a song whilst plowing the fields, you wouldn't have been able to play an instrument, but that's a different matter.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 05:16 AM

With all due respect, Don, you NOW seem completely "ignorant" of the "Chords in Folk?" thread.
"WAV, there is as much evidence, if not more, of chords being played than of any actual folk use of the recorder.
Cast your mind back to that pub you are so fond of picturing. The one by the river with the weeping willow and swans which glide majestically upon the silvery waters. Take your eyes off of that clog dancer for a moment, and put down your tankard of much-loved ale, I would like to draw your attention an object standing in the corner. Yes, a piano. Has nobody ever gathered round it to sing trad songs? CHords feature heavily in the use of the instrument.
So, if it was alright for them to gather round the piano in the pub and play chords, then why can't Dick Miles play chords on his concertinas?" (Volgadon)...clogs, tankards...music to my ears!...I play just the tune/top-line melody, as an accompaniment, on keyboards set to "piano" or after pleading "to play a pub's proper piano" (see myspace; "The Water is Wide" is done this way).
"And which metre would that be? Iambic pentameter, trochee, catalectic, dactylic hexameter, elegaic distich, alliterative verse, accentual, accentual-syllabic, common meter, iambic, tetrameter,alexandrine, hendecasyllable, the list goes on and on..... There are dozens, if not hundreds of ways for a poem to work, WAV. There is no 'right' way, there is no 'wrong' way, it all depends on the poet, his skill and what he set out to do. An important part of any art form is knowing HOW TO BREAK THE RULES AND WHEN." (Volgadon)...but, for centuries, NOT free verse - was it Ezra Pound who first said to hell with it, regarding traditional metre and/or rhyme? Either way, I like the challenge and effect of saying things WITHIN those limits - that's poetry.

"Anyone with half a wit can come up with a limerick, or a collection of quatrains, but something like a sonnet, esoecially one that works, takes a bit more skill." (Don)...

Poem 146 of 230: HORSES FOR COURSES?

To some, in income-anticipation,
    Horse-balking at gates is a small debase;
To me, it seems a memory/fear case
    Over the coming whip-castigation.
To some, the winning jockey's elation
    Is the highlight of an ended horserace;
To me, the horse's bulged veins and scared face
    Undermine the winners' celebration.
I can't condone a punter's desire
    To gamble rather than earn a living,
    But can acknowledge a jockey's courage;
I can't see and think as a raced sire,
    Nor feel the scrapes hedges are giving,
    But find horses choiceless in their bondage.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Finally, from that "Chords in Folk" thread, and as admitted on it, I did change my words here to "English folk-music, for centuries, has entertained people, with telling and/or dancing, via, MOSTLY, the repetition of tunes…"

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 05:43 AM

...clogs, tankards...music to my ears!...I play just the tune/top-line melody, as an accompaniment, on keyboards set to "piano" or after pleading "to play a pub's proper piano" (see myspace; "The Water is Wide" is done this way).

Stop avoiding the question. I didn't ask what YOU do, I asked you if chords were played on the pub's piano, why is Dick Miles playing them on a concertina some form of heresy.


but, for centuries, NOT free verse - was it Ezra Pound who first said to hell with it, regarding traditional metre and/or rhyme? Either way, I like the challenge and effect of saying things WITHIN those limits - that's poetry.

Again I ask, which is the proper form and meter?
I suspect that you really know very little of Ezra Pound, if you've even read him. He is very, very far from being my favourite poet, but he can't be dismissed lightly, he did have a strong grasp of the inner workings of his native tongue, which is vital for any poet. He did not come up with the concept of free verse all on his own, but drew heavily from MEDIEVAL poetry. Alliterative verse ring any bells?


Good poetry,
is not mere rhymes,
you see.


It's better to say that most songs COLLECTED in the early 20th century were sung unaccompanied, etc.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Working Radish
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 06:01 AM

Congratulations on trying to write a sonnet. But I stress 'trying'. A sonnet is 14 lines of iambic pentameter - five iambs per line, dum-DUM dum-DUM dum-DUM dum-DUM dum-DUM
("O how unlike the place from whence they fell")
Sometimes the pattern can be varied with a falling DUM-dum trochee
("Earth has not anything to show more fair", first foot)
sometimes with a flat flat dum-dum spondee
("The frost performs its secret ministry", last foot)

What you've written doesn't come close. The pattern of stresses is different in every line, and in most cases there are four rather than five. Also the rhymes are appallingly forced - 'sire' isn't a synonym for 'horse', 'debase' isn't a noun and a horse doesn't have a 'face'.

Frankly, I don't think poetry is your metier.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: pavane
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 07:16 AM

"It's better to say that most songs COLLECTED in the early 20th century were sung unaccompanied, etc. "

But again, MOST of them were half-remembered pop songs from the 1800's, which would probably have been performed with accompaniment.

See for example My Johnny was a shoemaker, written c1859 in the US by a composer and performed in a tour around Europe by his wife, presumably accompanied by the composer on piano.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Working Radish
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 08:14 AM

Here's a slightly more detailed critique (what the hell, it's lunchtime). I've marked the feet with '|'.

To some|, in in|come-anti|cipation,

Four feet, not five. Third foot is a three-syllable anapaest (dum-dum-DUM). Fourth foot also has three syllables, but we can disregard the last one and treat '-ation' as a single syllable (this is sometimes called a 'feminine rhyme').

    Horse-bal|king at gates |is a small |debase;

Four feet again, two anapaests. It's spelt 'baulking' with a U. You don't mean 'horse-baulking', which would mean the act of baulking a horse, but 'A horse baulking' or 'To see a horse baulking'. There's no such noun as 'debase', and I don't know what it's meant to mean here ('disadvantage'? 'annoyance'?).

To me, |it seems |a memo|ry/fe|ar case|

Just about works as long as you pronounce 'fear' with two syllables, which most people don't.

    Over| the com|ing whip|-castigation.

Four feet - a trochee, two iambs and a dactyl (DUM-dum-dum).

To some|, the winn|ing jock|ey's elation

Four feet - three iambs and an anapaest

    Is the |highlight| of an| ended| horserace;

Five feet, every one of them a trochee. Seriously, look at this. The only way this is iambic is if you can read 'Is the highlight' and emphasise 'the' and 'light'.

To me|, the hor|se's bulged| veins and |scared face

Three iambs and two trochees. Usually you'd say 'bulging' veins and you wouldn't refer to a horse's 'face'.

    Un|dermine| the win|ners' cel|ebration.

I'll let you call this iambic, even though there's a syllable missing at the start.

I can't |condone| a pun|ter's desire|

Four feet, last one an anapaest.

    To gam|ble ra|ther than earn| a living,

Four feet, third one an anapaest. (And is that really why punters gamble? They can't keep at it for very long if so.)

    But can |acknow|ledge a joc|key's courage;

Four feet, third one an anapaest. Maybe you've invented a new metre.

I can't |see and |think as |a raced| sire,

Two trochees and one foot with a missing syllable - and what's a 'sire' in this context?

    Nor feel |the scrapes |hedges| are giving,

Four feet, one of them a trochee.

    But find |horses |choiceless in |their bondage.

Four feet: iamb, trochee, dactyl, iamb. Also, doesn't rhyme - when you're using feminine rhymes, the rhyme needs to include the stressed syllable as well as the trailing unstressed syllable, and 'cour-' doesn't rhyme with 'bond-'.

Summary: most of the rhymes are either bad or forced, and the metre's terrible - there are only two lines of iambic pentameter in the whole thing, and both of them are debatable.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 08:29 AM

debase is not a noun ...

Main Entry:
    de·base
Function:
    transitive verb
Date:
    1565

1: to lower in status, esteem, quality, or character

2 a: to reduce the intrinsic value of (a coin) by increasing the base-metal content b: to reduce the exchange value of (a monetary unit)
— de·base·ment   noun
— de·bas·er   noun

synonyms
debase, vitiate, deprave, corrupt, debauch, pervert
mean to cause deterioration or lowering in quality or character.

debase implies a loss of position, worth, value, or dignity [commercialism has debased the holiday].
vitiate implies a destruction of purity, validity, or effectiveness by allowing entrance of a fault or defect [a foreign policy vitiated by partisanship].
deprave implies moral deterioration by evil thoughts or influences [the claim that society is depraved by pornography].
corrupt implies loss of soundness, purity, or integrity [the belief that bureaucratese corrupts the language].
debauch implies a debasing through sensual indulgence [the long stay on a tropical isle had debauched the ship's crew].
pervert implies a twisting or distorting from what is natural or normal [perverted the original goals of the institute].

mumble mumble mumble is a small debase....

seems ok to me.... :-P


(Mr Pedantic strikes again!)

Running for the door....

:-)

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 08:37 AM

Come on, give the guy a break - ok, he stuffed up the meter well and truly, but your objection of his use of some of the words you object to is most unfair for 'poetry' - and using a word for a verb as a noun, etc is highly 'Shakespearean', and still done so even today...


Surely thou wouldst have failed Shakespeare himself, mate... :-)

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 09:01 AM

Punters tend to gamble for the rush, more than anything.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,SOETO
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 09:20 AM

English Country Dancing -> European origin (Italian?)
Step Dance -> Celtic (Scots?)
Morris -> European (Spanish?)
Longsword + Rapper -> European (Germany?)
Modern Maypole with Ribbons -> European (French/Italian)?
Bagpipes (Middle East/Roman?)
Anglo Concertina (half German)
Flageolet (French)
Pipe + Tabor (French)

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 10:39 AM

Volgadon - if someone, as I do, plays just the tune/top-line melody on a piano/keys set on "piano", it may be said that they are not playing it properly/not making proper use of the instrument's full capabilities OR that they are playing it in a folkie way. I like hearing just the tune on a piano, concertina, etc...maybe that's because I'm a folkie at heart.
WR AND FT - there are different kinds of sonnets (2, from memory, in my collection). And poetry, as with music, IS subjective - some HAVE happened to like at least some of mine, which do include some POETIC LICENCE.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 11:11 AM

your objection of his use of some of the words you object to is most unfair for 'poetry'

Maybe I did go over the top a bit. As it happens, I've written sonnets in the past - and large amounts of poetry in iambic pentameter - and I've always taken pains to get it right. It's actually not that hard, if you take a bit of care over it.

there are different kinds of sonnets

True - and your use of the difficult Petrarcan rhyme scheme would certainly earn you points, if only you'd brought it off a bit better. But none of them mess around with the metre the way you do. If it's a sonnet it'll go dum-DUM, dum-DUM, dum-DUM, dum-DUM, dum-DUM, with a very few variations.

But this is Mudcat Vs Walkaboutsverse all over - we can all criticise or challenge him as much as we like, it'll all be shrugged off or ignored, even at the cost of total inconsistency. I like the challenge and effect of saying things WITHIN those limits - but when I point out he's failed to do so, that doesn't matter because poetry, as with music, IS subjective.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: s&r
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 11:42 AM

Sad, WAV that you manage to alienate so many good people on this forum. Many of them could and would help you to improve your singing, your playing, your poetry and your education.

Instead of using this wonderful resource and the friendly and erudite people herein, you prefer to hector, pontificate and preach to a population so much better qualified.

Refusing to read the wisdom that has been proffered to you makes you the poorer.

I think many of us applaud your efforts in the directions of 'folk art' and would wish you to succeed: sadly you mock the sincerity of the more helpful and corrective replies by your intransigence. This has resulted in mutual cat-calling that does Mudcat a disservice.


Sincerely

Stu

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 12:22 PM

WAV, that if says it all.

Stop avoiding the question. I didn't ask what YOU do, or like, I asked you if chords were played on the pub's piano, and there is no basis for assuming that they weren't, then why is Dick Miles playing them on a concertina some form of heresy.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 01:36 PM

It seems to me, WAV, that you believe that nations should be monocultural, i.e. that England should be full of English people doing English things, France should be full of French people doing French things, and so on around the world.

I won't bother you for a Yes or No - I'll assume this is an accurate summary of your views, unless you tell us otherwise.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 04:59 PM

"With all due respect, Don, you NOW seem completely 'ignorant' of the 'Chords in Folk?' thread."

WAV, having reread that thread, I find nothing inconsistent with anything I've also written on this thread. So, to what are you referring?

And as far as your attempt at a sonnet is concerned, others have already critiqued it, so I shall show mercy and refrain.

Perhaps I should refer you once again to something I posted on the "Chords in Folk" thread.   Note particularly the parable of the cup of tea.   CLICKY

Don Firth

P. S.   By the way, Robin, I thing "debase" is what "de-statue" stands on. . . .

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 09:23 PM

Don, I'll deal with you later - I'm off to gather the 'special' herbs now.... :-P

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 02:47 AM

"P. S.   By the way, Robin, I thing "debase" is what "de-statue" stands on. . . ."

Reminds me of an old Jewish anecdote. A husband is away on a business trip when the hospital phones him. His wife is delivering. He drops everything, hops in the car and tries to make it back, but it breaks down and he misses the birth. He calls the hospital and to his horror, the phone is answered by his brother, not the brightest of all bulbs in the box, and who still has a heavy old country accent.
-How did the birth go?
-Vent vell, you hed tvins, a boy enda gerel. I named zem for you.
At this point, the guy gets worried.
-What did you name the girl?
-Denise.
-OH, that's a pretty name! What did you name the boy?
-Denephew.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 06:29 AM

Let's sum it all up...............

yeah.....that's about it.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:03 AM

...I'm going to fix "baUlking", thanks Pip/Working Radish; and, if I can think of something, replace "debase"! But, yet again, I've read "HORSES FOR COURSES?" aloud and it SOUNDS okay...ONE (HUM)MAN'S MEAT...?!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:07 AM

You're going to fix? Baulking???
Why bother. No ones ever going to read it.
You've read something "Out Loud"?
Good job you didn't try to sing it.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:12 AM

Depends whether you want to write a 14-line poem or a sonnet, really. As ever, it's up to you what you choose to attempt - what's not up to you is judging how well you achieve it.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:16 AM

I, for one, or another, think, for whatever reason, if a reason there is, that you, the Wavylimpdick, are a racist, bigot, and chavinistic, asshole. You, for other,possibly and often many, sundry reasons, some good and some great, need to get past, or is that passed,(HAHA), the commentary with, to make a cutie here, and possibly elswhere as well, commas spliced in all, and just about everywhere, over your pathetic, gerbil-like, writing.

Spaw

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Mr Happy
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:20 AM

Mr Happy's qualis= an honours degree in humanities & driving a forklift, playing manifold musical intruments, singing, composition of poems, tunes, songs, knowledge of when to use e.g. & when not to, cycling proficiency certificate, swimming one breadth using breaststroke, Local Authority minibus driving licence, so what career move am I best suited to next?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Mr Happy
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:39 AM

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T_221BH9pNE

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:05 AM

"so what career move am I best suited to next?"

How's your left hand mate?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,We Subvert Koalas
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:08 AM

For fuck;s sake Mr Happy - let us know what the link is before you go spinging that sort of shit on us! That has to be the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. Is that WAV? Giving his cheap plastic tenor recorder fellatio? Silently? OMFG! And - it's posted as a response to THIS! Who the fuck do you think you are WAV? Something - that's for sure.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Mr Happy
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:44 AM

We Subvert Koalas = Outlaws Eva Krebs?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 11:09 AM

I've linked that questionable video before........Kinda' makes it clear why so many refer to him as "Blowboy."

Spaw

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 01:09 PM

Well, now that you've (Cough! Choke!) mastered the sonnet, WAV, how about favoring us with a vilanelle?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 02:10 PM

Or an ode, maybe even an elegy.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 02:33 PM

I sung one and read one last night, Ralphie, at a NE Poetry Journal event, and they seemed to be received okay.
I'm a tad surprised no-one knocked the quality of the recording on the link that Mr Happy happily took the liberty of posting.
So sorry, Don and Volga added on - I've retired from versification to present my life's work, along with E. trads and the odd hymn, on the folk and poetry scenes, as above.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 02:37 PM

See, that is another thing that sets you apart from true poets. None of them reached a certain number, then decided that they weren't going to write anymore, the cannon is closed.
It also shows that you are merely pushing an agenda.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 02:44 PM

Stark Vowel Abuse?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 03:06 PM

"See, that is another thing that sets you apart from true poets. None of them reached a certain number, then decided that they weren't going to write anymore" (Volgadon)..."none"?...

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 03:36 PM

None looked at their work, and went. 'Oh, think I have enough, time to do something else...'

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone (save a person who worked for someone else at a job they didn't especially like and finally retires) who said that their "life's work" is finished. That is especially true of poets, writers, artists, musicians.

A singer or ballerina may retire when they feel that they've reached an age when their physical resources are no longer up to what they should be. But even then, they frequently turn to teaching, or take up some other aspect of their art, such as Beverly Sills, who, when she retired from singing, became general manager of New York City Opera.

But poets, writers, and visual artists usually keep right on going until they shuffle off this mortal coil. Many such artists don't really feel they've hit their stride until they reach "a certain age" and have a great deal of memories and experience to draw upon.

And in the case of people who retire from jobs they worked at for income rather than pleasure and fulfillment, many feel that now that they have the time, their real life's work is about to begin.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:05 PM

First Presentation of Life's Work Delivered HERE

Folkie Presentation HERE

For His Largest Presentations Are HERE

His Life's Work!!!


Spaw

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:09 PM

Take Mozart, I feel that it wasn't until the end of his short life that he was becoming profound, musically.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:13 PM

I immediately thought of Rimbaud*, who gave up poetry at the age of 20(!) - but he gave it up to do something else with his life, not to monumentalise his "life's work".

You're one of a kind, WAV. (See also 'Strange Compliments' thread.)

*Not something I'd often say about WAV.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:25 PM

Poets do give up poetry, naturally, but for OTHER reasons than Wav's. Oftentimes it's to do with severe trauma or emotional stress, or they feel that the well of inspiration has dried up.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:51 PM

But there is another aspect to one's "life's work." Learning. That's everyone's life's work. No one starts out knowing it all. And at no point in one's life can he or she say, "I now know everything I need to know and don't have to bother learning anything more, nor do I need to re-examine what I already 'know'." Life itself is a learning process, and when one stops learning, one is as good as dead.

The immensity of the Cosmos provides an endless opportunity to provide fascinating questions and to learn about the physical universe we inhabit, and the amazing variety of the manifestations of human thought and experience (in short, culture) means that there will never be an end to new occasions to learn and expand our own knowledge—and, indeed, should make us aware of the necessity to continually re-examine what we think we know. This is not a burden as some suppose. It is one of life's greatest joys!

The problem with a carefully regulated monoculture is that it places a limit on one's chances to experience that human variety and limits one's opportunities to expand one's knowledge. Unfortunately, of course, there are those who find that new experiences, especially those that require them to question and re-evaluated what they have accepted as certainties, are very uncomfortable and unsettling, and sometimes go so far as to try to manipulate their lives and surroundings in order to avoid such disturbances.

But if one is so locked into his beliefs that he stops learning and never re-examines and re-evaluates them, then he or she is little more than an animated pile of dead meat.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 11:21 PM

"retired from versification"

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 02:31 AM

No, because he hasn't retired from repeating ad nauseum the verses he has already composed.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 06:07 AM

Don and Volgadon - I consider presenting walkaboutsverse.741.com, on the folk and poetry scenes, etc., as a part of my life's work but, as I say, have retired from actual versification.
Better known poets who did something similar...?...On the other hand, Thomas Hardy, a lover of English folk dance and music, actually focused on poetry for the rest of his life after vowing never to write another novel, I heard...

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 07:03 AM

Hardy always considered himself a poet first and foremost.

I know inspiration can dry up, but I fail to understand why anyone would write poems and then make a *decision* to stop - unless (like Rimbaud) they were abandoning poetry altogether.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 08:59 AM

For what it's worth, Pip, on the local poetry scene, I still enjoy reading and discussing the poems of others. I also read through my collection annually, and occasionally make minor changes - but, basically, I've said all I want to say, and am content with the countries and places I've visited.

Poem 199 of 230: BEDE'S WORLD - WINTER 2002/3

During Advent, I returned to Bede's World,
    Where I, already read, was further schooled -
Via walks through the museum, the farm,
    The ruins, and the church with its old arm.
With gifts, I left, after some four hours,
    To round off, at home, my thoughts on ours.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 09:08 AM

"basically, I've said all I want to say, and am content with the countries and places I've visited"

Ah - Waiting for God - there was a TV series about that - also one called One Foot in the Grave...

and while I'm in the mood...

Look at the Coffin,
Bloody great handles,
Isn't it grand boys,
To be bloody well dead!