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BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia

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GUEST,Penguin Egg 24 Aug 08 - 06:01 AM
GUEST,Miner633 24 Aug 08 - 06:02 AM
Folk Form # 1 24 Aug 08 - 06:30 AM
kendall 24 Aug 08 - 06:44 AM
GUEST,Miner633 24 Aug 08 - 06:46 AM
GUEST,Miner633 24 Aug 08 - 06:50 AM
Ythanside 24 Aug 08 - 07:39 AM
Georgiansilver 24 Aug 08 - 08:37 AM
Georgiansilver 24 Aug 08 - 08:40 AM
Dave Hanson 24 Aug 08 - 10:22 AM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 24 Aug 08 - 10:25 AM
Megan L 24 Aug 08 - 11:04 AM
Big Al Whittle 24 Aug 08 - 12:11 PM
akenaton 24 Aug 08 - 12:34 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Aug 08 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 24 Aug 08 - 12:55 PM
The Villan 24 Aug 08 - 02:13 PM
The Villan 24 Aug 08 - 02:13 PM
Betsy 24 Aug 08 - 04:02 PM
Emma B 24 Aug 08 - 04:39 PM
Geoff the Duck 24 Aug 08 - 04:47 PM
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Rapparee 24 Aug 08 - 06:09 PM
Doc John 24 Aug 08 - 06:13 PM
GUEST,A Regular. 24 Aug 08 - 07:18 PM
Peace 24 Aug 08 - 07:24 PM
Emma B 24 Aug 08 - 07:28 PM
Peace 24 Aug 08 - 08:01 PM
Nigel Parsons 24 Aug 08 - 08:24 PM
Richard Bridge 24 Aug 08 - 08:55 PM
Nigel Parsons 24 Aug 08 - 09:08 PM
GUEST,Miner633 25 Aug 08 - 03:26 AM
Big Al Whittle 25 Aug 08 - 03:55 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 25 Aug 08 - 05:28 AM
Georgiansilver 25 Aug 08 - 07:29 AM
Nigel Parsons 25 Aug 08 - 07:36 AM
Greg F. 25 Aug 08 - 08:08 AM
Big Al Whittle 25 Aug 08 - 08:25 AM
GUEST,Miner633 25 Aug 08 - 08:38 AM
Folk Form # 1 25 Aug 08 - 10:47 AM
Georgiansilver 25 Aug 08 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,Miner633 25 Aug 08 - 11:22 AM
Big Al Whittle 25 Aug 08 - 11:36 AM
John MacKenzie 25 Aug 08 - 12:01 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 25 Aug 08 - 12:28 PM
The Villan 25 Aug 08 - 02:34 PM
Backwoodsman 25 Aug 08 - 03:13 PM
jacqui.c 25 Aug 08 - 03:33 PM
Peace 25 Aug 08 - 03:36 PM
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Kampervan 25 Aug 08 - 04:03 PM
Big Al Whittle 25 Aug 08 - 04:06 PM
GUEST,Miner633 25 Aug 08 - 05:00 PM
Richard Bridge 25 Aug 08 - 05:03 PM
The Sandman 25 Aug 08 - 06:40 PM
Richard Bridge 25 Aug 08 - 08:43 PM
GUEST,Miner633 26 Aug 08 - 02:22 AM
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GUEST,Miner633 26 Aug 08 - 03:33 AM
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Big Al Whittle 26 Aug 08 - 04:17 AM
Backwoodsman 26 Aug 08 - 04:24 AM
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Doc John 26 Aug 08 - 08:50 AM
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Subject: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Penguin Egg
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:01 AM

I found this news item today. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/itn/20080824/tuk-carol-thatcher-reveals-mother-s-deme-dba1618.html
Very sad. My mother has dementia and it is soul destroying to see someone you love slowly die inside. I was never a fan of Mrs Thatcher - far from it - but no-one deserves this.


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Subject: BS: Great news for a Sunday morning
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:02 AM

Just going through the papers and I see Thatcher's daughter Carol has revealed details of her mother's dementia.

It would appear she has totally lost the plot and can't even remember Denis !

Well we remember her and the evil she brought to this nation. I hope she lives for a long long time yet.

Rejoice, there is a God !
    Two threads combined. -Forum Moderator-


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Subject: RE: BS: Great news for a Sunday morning
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:30 AM

I personally hate Margaret Thatcher. She is a war criminal who sank the Belgrano. However, we should not gloat over her dementia. She is a person with feelings and with a family.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: kendall
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:44 AM

Both my Mother and her Mother went that way. It's a heart breaker.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great news for a Sunday morning
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:46 AM

Any chance of directing me to a link which confirms she has feelings ?

Ummmmmmm, has a family, ah yes Sir Mark admitted breaking anti-mercenary legislation in South Africa. If he had been successful it would have resulted in the loss of possibly thousands of lives.

Such a lovely family.

Save your pity PE, It's lost on me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:50 AM

I also watched it in my own family. Understand and take some comfort from the fact suffers die oblivious to their ills.

I dearly hope Margaret will regain her marbles and live for a long time aware of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Ythanside
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 07:39 AM

Ditto.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great news for a Sunday morning
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:37 AM

Each one of us enters this sad world... not by choice or we would not bother coming... but we also each try to make our way through it in the best possible way we can. I am sure Margaret Thatcher thought she was doing her best and maybe even acknowledged making mistakes to those close to her. Who made any of us Judge and Jury over her or anyone else for that matter??? I am sure even a Guest who calls theirself Miner633 has made some bad mistakes through life..... doesn't mean that people won't be charitable when that person gets old and maybe needs help for serious illness or just the ageing process......... Maggie did many good things whilst in office and will sadly be remembered more for her mistakes... such is the way of our human world....... Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..........


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:40 AM

Guest Miner633.... your comment are differing
from those on the "Good news for a Sunday Morning" thread... why is that please????


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Subject: RE: BS: Great news for a Sunday morning
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 10:22 AM

Oh yeah ? she taught a whole generation that greed and selfishness are GOOD, this was not a mistake, like Ewan MacColl I hated her with a vengance, but I wouldnt wish dementia on her.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 10:25 AM

Its not Mrs. Thatcher's fault. She was part of a world wide groundswell of so called conservatism which resulted from a backlash against '60s protesters and two oil crises in the 1970's. If she hadn't been Prime Minister someone else would have done the same thing.

One might say that God is punishing her. One might say that it is more than coincidence that she and Reagan have suffered similar afflictions. But I say it is coincidence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Megan L
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 11:04 AM

Some of us also remember all the striking sons of bitches miners teachers and the like who destroyed the education of many young people in the seventies and were to wraped up in them selves to see young people being bullied and injured. My parents spent time taking hot food to old folk in our area that the miners didny gie a damb wheteher they lived or died. Folk were doing a pretty good job of being selfish without one womans help.

Meg who dislikes polititians of any coat and whose uncles were real miners wie a pick crawlin on their bellys.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 12:11 PM

well she got the miners crawling again....if that's what turns you on.

I'm sorry if anyone's ill. Vladimir Putin, The Yorkshire Ripper, anybody. Other peoples misery doesn't make the world nicer for anyone else.

Misery is a great corruptor and despoiler. Life should be good for all of us. Anyway that should be the aim and wish for everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 12:34 PM

Jack's right again....that's twice!! not bad for a yank :0)

Thatcher was a symptom of the disease that most people support and were willing to die for, in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan,Korea,etc etc.

Even here, on what is purported to be a "left wing" site few are prepared to look deeper at the cause of all the political ills which afflict us.

We are still starstruck by Obama,McCain, Blair, Brown, but they are only the bacteria that live on the putrifying beast.

I fear it will be another century before we see the "change" which is so glibly offered by Obama and his like, but surely to christ we can start to look a little further than the bottom of our wage/dole slip......Ake


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 12:38 PM

"...Oh yeah ? she taught a whole generation that greed and selfishness are GOOD..."

No, many people **chose** to live by her values, that was all. They were entirely free NOT to do so.

I didn't.

Tony and Cherie Blair did though.

And the beat goes on......

....within New Labour.

I feel nothing but sympathy for her daughter, for to nurse anyone with dementia is soul destroying, and she is, after all, Carol's mother.




"...Oh yeah ? she taught a whole generation that greed and selfishness are GOOD..."

And Tony and Cherie Blair didn't? How soon we forget.

Just one example

All those speeches she gave, for vast fees? All the freebie clothes she took advantage of? The life of a political spouse 'celebrity' dressed to kill, with her fashion guru, Carol, *always* to hand, with photos of the two of them choosing which clothes she should wear, whilst sitting on Cherie's bed in Downing St.

Oh purleeze!

They thought they were the Posh and Becks of politicians (and politicians' wives) whilst behind them both, skulking in the shadows, lay Alistair Campbell, pulling all the strings he'd so easily been able to attach to The Tony Puppet he'd found, designing his Designer Britain, with the label of 'Orwell 1984' being embossed upon everything he touched...

With the Blairs came 'Cool Britannia' and The Age of the Celebrity, who they hung out with at every given opportunity. It was the age of the Luvvies..mwa mwa kisses and Cherie posing at any and every opportunity that came her way.

And yet, Tony promised us all a more 'compassionate Britain' when he first came into 'power'...

Yeah, right...

They all sicken me....as does Gordon, who, despite losing/messing up the pensions of millions of people, leaving them struggling for the rest of their lives, is now 'our leader'...And we're all supposed to conveniently forget what a catastrophe he created in the lives of so many? Sheesh! WHERE have our brains gone? Maybe the country is suffering from Dementia En Masse?

Blame Mrs. Thatcher for her part, but not without blaming those who came after..right alongside any of those who follow/followed them all, with 'eyes wide shut'


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 12:55 PM

Keep in mind that when given the chance people will vote for easy answers and others, especially the next generations, paying the tab.

That is the main appeal of Reagan/Thatcher/Mulrooney "conservatism".


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: The Villan
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 02:13 PM

Well she was a darn sight better than that [rat called Brown, who is leading us to destruction.

My mother has just been upped on nursing to dementia. Its not nice, but I would wish it on Brown more than Thatcher. I wouldn't wish it on anybody really.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: The Villan
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 02:13 PM

{rat should have been prat


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Betsy
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 04:02 PM

She is and was social vandal . She probably can't remember Belgrano, stopping free milk for children and turning much of the nation into selfish individuals.
Where are we now when we are getting held to ransom on Gas/fuel prices?
She shit on a hard working bunch of miners - and we'll never get those lads down a hole again.
She may have forgotten - but Britain will remember her misdeeds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 04:39 PM

In 1987, the Thatcher ministry proposed to impose charges for periodic dental and eye checkups.
The proposal was seen as a violation of the principles of preventive medicine that might be further extended in the future.
The British Medical Association declared its opposition.
They complained that the Health Service was 'under funded, undermined and under threat'
The nurses made well justified claims for pay increases, many were leaving the NHS for the private sector.

The nurses resort to a strike to protest their low pay'

From The Thatcher Revolution by Earl Aaron Reitan

1988
"
Health workers totally demoralised and dejected"
Rodney Bickerstaffe, general secretary Nupe

Nurses protest for better pay
Nurses across the UK have taken part in a day of industrial action to secure more money for themselves AND the NHS.

In London, they were joined by patients, pensioner groups and Labour MPs in the 40 hospitals across the capital.

In the House of Commons Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher condemned the health workers' strike saying it was prolonging waiting lists and deserting patients

A South Yorkshire pit, Frickley Colliery, was brought to a standstill when nearly 200 day-shift workers refused to cross the nurses' picket line at the pit gate.'

BBC 'on this day' 3rd Feb


"Some of us also remember all the striking sons of bitches miners teachers and the like"
- like those very nurses who care for patients with dementia !


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 04:47 PM

So Carol Thatcher is using her mother's dementia to sell books.

VERY ADMIRABLE, I am am sure.

She is obviously just as heartless and unprincipled as her mother was.

Qack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 05:08 PM

Hang on!
Who was it shut down all the old folks homes and care facilities which looked after ordinary people who had dementia?
Oh Yes - Margaret Bloody Thatcher! Because it cost taxpayers money, and poor people didn't deserve to be cared for because "there was no such thing as society" and only rich people who could pay for medical care deserved to be treated.
I expect that she will be in private care with one to one nursing 24/7 unlike the people she robbed of any chance of dying with dignity under NHS hospitals or local council care.

Actually, I cannot feel any sympathy for her or her family. They are just as bad as she was. At least when My Grandmother had dementia, we were under an old style true Labour council, who hadn't at that time been forced by the Tories to sell off the local care homes. The homes don't exist any more, so I DO feel pity for the poor people who no longer have the option.

Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:09 PM

I feel true sorrow for those in the US who don't have health insurance every time I have to pick up a prescription or see a doctor (both are all too frequent these days).


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Doc John
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:13 PM

Hitler, Stalin etc thought what they were doing was for the best too and they too may be considered victims of their times. Thatcher was an admirer of Pinochet and Blair and Brown admirers of Thatcher, and the latter is planning a state funeral for her. As most of the army is occupied with illegal wars, perhaps the route could be lined by former miners. Steve Bell's recent series of cartoons about Thatcher and dementia are very distasteful and superb!


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,A Regular.
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 07:18 PM

There are only three people I hate badly enough to wish dementia on them, and she ain't one of 'em.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Peace
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 07:24 PM

Y'all might want to get pissed off at the folks who voted for her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 07:28 PM

Peace, it's kinda like Bush! - no one will actually own up to it :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Peace
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:01 PM

Yeah. I've been looking for one person who voted for Stephen Harper. No luck so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:24 PM

"Peace, it's kinda like Bush! - no one will actually own up to it :) "

I'll 'own up' to it. (in fact, I'm proud of it)
Prior to Maggie (and I'll admit she was no saint) we had a country working a three day week because of stikes by the miners meaning there was insufficient coal to run the power stations.
The miners were taken to strike action without a vote/mandate from the workers themselves.

Post Maggie there is a requirement for any union to ballot its workers before taking serious industrial action, and that by secret ballot (as with the election of politicians) so that no one is coerced by the militant members of their unions calling for a 'show of hands'.

I find it rather sad that we have people on this site who would wish illness on anyone, irrespective of their political leanings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:55 PM

Thatcher was not a reflection but a cause. There is nothing too bad for her to deserve. She had no sympathy for anyone else. Why should we have any for her now? When one considers the suffering she deliberately caused there is a long long way to go before there is balance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 09:08 PM

"She had no sympathy for anyone else. Why should we have any for her now? "

If, as you seem to claim, she was inhumane, that means (to you) that you, in turn must also be inhumane.

It seems it is not only Maggie that needs our sympathy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 03:26 AM

I want this old buzzard to live until she is 100. I want her to have periods of remission and regain her senses. I want her to reflect on her hate of the working class, the Irish and the Argentinians.

She was a bastard, simple as that, she ensured a bunch of thieves in white shirts fleeced the country and feathered their nests.

As for the support she has on this thread, Christ look who it's from !

Washed up and jumped up come to mind.

F. her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 03:55 AM

Strangely enough she ignited something within the tory party. My Aunt, was a tory councillor for years, and was quite apalled by her - and longed for a return to the 'one nation' toryism of MacMillan and co. But the die was cast.

However what every other tory you speak to, seems to find inadequate about every subsequent leader is that they are NOT Thatcherite enough.

I go along with Richard Bridge. She was an extremely charismatic person.

And I use 'charismatic' in the sense my old sociology lecturer did - someone who changes society.

None of the other leaders available at the time (whom it has to be said she only narrowly defeated by means of dirty tricks from the Spycatcher gang) would have done things her way.

I think her biggest tragedy was that she was unable to work with the men of talent and integrity in her party - Hesseltine, John MacGregor, 'the Wets' - and she coralled alot of yesmen and no hopers to act as cyphers for for her policies Keith Joseph, Kenny Baker, Lawson, Whitelaw - absolute tripehounds the lot. So when she did go - there was a total vacuum at the top in the tory party. Also - surely better people around her would have moderated the disatrous social effects of her reign.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 05:28 AM

I hope she's paying her way and not depending on the State and the taxpayer to look after her!


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 07:29 AM

Amazing the comments that crawl out of the woodwork on threads like this.... I feel sorry for the woman and moreso her family.... whatever she did in the past.. As the saying goes... "There but for the grace of God go I".... I wonder how many people in her position would have done exactly the same... or perhaps messed up even worse????????
I hope Maggie and her family cope with this problem adequately... Best wishes to them all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 07:36 AM

GuestMiner633:
"As for the support she has on this thread, Christ look who it's from !"

If you're referring to me perhaps you can share what you think you know about me. Or are you just making assumptions based on the fact that I have voted Conservative?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 08:08 AM

Has dementia NOW? To quote Dorothy Parker on Coolidge:

"How can you tell?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 08:25 AM

' I wonder how many people in her position would have done exactly the same'

I think very few. When I worked at British Leyland in the late 1960's, the workmen complained that they were having to work with 60 year old plant.

There was a choice - what to do with with once in a millenium bonanza money from North sea oil.

We have yet to really to get to grips with Thatcher's legacy. Instead of updating British manufacturing industry with all its archaic practices and attitudes - she had the idea of discarding it totally.

Now whether this works in the long term - we have a long time to find out. No use casting Blair and Brown as disciples of Thatcher - they are just living in her shadow. - living with what she destroyed and created.

A friend of mine is a buyer and deals with the Chines and Indonesian and New Zealand factories all the time. Could such high tech, high skilled jobs have been created in England - the sad truth is that we never even tried.

Those old attitudes beat us from every direction. Thatcher was part of that. But a revolutionary thinker of the process.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 08:38 AM

Georgiansilver "I feel sorry for the woman and moreso her family.... whatever she did in the past.."

Sorry it doesn't work that way in life. A few old guys from Europe headed to South America and Britain sixty years ago and people pursued them. A certain bearded guy was issuing rubs for aches and pains in the mountains of Bosnia up until recently. Please don't give this serpent respectability.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 10:47 AM

Her legacy is that she broke with the concensus, which needed doing, but not in her way. That is my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 11:20 AM

Guest Miner633 I guess that's where we differ as people.... whatever someones politics were or whatever their mistakes in life... I don't see fit to judge or condemn them.... I tend also to look at Politics as a seperate issue to peoples health.... I feel sorry for anyone who is suffering, or a member of whose family is suffering from dementia or any other serious illness.... whoever they are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 11:22 AM

Georgiansilver, you may recall what SHE did to the health service in the mid eighties.

It's payback.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 11:36 AM

There is no payback ....suffering is just suffering. we don't need it for anybody.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 12:01 PM

There are some real poisonous bastards posting on this thread. I hope it happens to you too, those who rejoice at the suffering of a fellow human.
Let he/she, who is without sin cast the first stone!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 12:28 PM

I think this thread should be closed.

What purpose is it serving, other than to encourage those who love to hate, over to Mudcat?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: The Villan
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 02:34 PM

>>Let he/she, who is without sin cast the first stone!!! <<

What is a sin, if you are not religious?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 03:13 PM

Here we go again. Guest poster winds up the members by the use of bile and vitriol, applied in liberal quantities. Come on guys, we've been around here long enough to know the answer - ignore the flamer.

FWIW, I'm with WLD and Georgiansilver. She has a far higher power than us to answer to when she finally gets there. Rather her than me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: jacqui.c
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 03:33 PM

I think that she did what she thought was right at the time. Whether that was correct I don't know but I would like to see those who slate her so much do better.

Having seen two beloved grandparents go through this I would not wish this on any family. If I ever get to that stage and are aware, at times of what is happening, I will do my best to take myself out as painlessly as possible.

I hope I never get nasty enough to wish such a fate on anyone else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Peace
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 03:36 PM

Ditto.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Wesley S
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 03:54 PM

Expressing joy in someone elses pain shows us more about who the troll is than the quality of the person suffering.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Kampervan
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 04:03 PM

Mrs T did a lot of things that history will judge either good or bad in the fullness of time.


Whatever your views on anyone's politics, when they are affected by something such as this, then that is the time for some compassion.

Whether you agreed with her or not, the means to stop her was the ballot box. And she was repeatedly re-elected.

The fact that she is now suffering from something that affects so many of us is not something to gloat over. Its a time to show some humanity.

And if you disagreed with her then maybe by doing that you make yourself bigger than she was.

If we ever start to rejoice in suffering then that really is the end for the human race.

Well that's what I think anyway.

K/van


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 04:06 PM

I'm sure Backwoodsman and myself and anybody who lived through those times in a mining community don't really have much time for Thatcher apologists.

You'd think even less of her - if you'd seen the way she used inflation to cut your allownces by 30% and you were supporting a disabled person.

But even so, her suffering does me no good and it doesn't give me threepence back on the bottle for all the years she polluted.

I'm genuinely sorry for her predicament now, and I wish her family well in the trials that lie aheaad. If you've known suffering first hand, you don't wish it on anyone else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 05:00 PM

I have read though a lot of excellent "older" posts this evening on the site. It is amazing how some of those above seem to alter their way of thinking and their level of compassion. Interesting, but not surprising.

WTF is this about "She has a far higher power than us to answer to when she finally gets there" Backwoodsman ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 05:03 PM

Never try to pet a mad dog (or bitch) - it will only savage you. If you let it do it twice - more fool you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 06:40 PM

I prefer to forget her.
remember the miners, who were killed during the miners strike.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 08:43 PM

Even the fools who forgive her the unforgivable should remember her: a dreadful warning how the lunatic right can turn on their own nation, starve it, disenfranchise it, and leave the sick to die and the mad to wander the streets and kill or be killed. It is through forgetfulness and lack of watchfulness that we see the dreadful spectre of Cameron and his Etonian slickers poised through lies and blandishments to bring back tax cuts and thus service cuts to England. If there were a God, would that he would save us, for we will not save ourselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 02:22 AM

Well said Richard, an excellent post.
Now get ready for the resident fruitcakes and terminal bores on the site to attack you. Don't take them under your notice, I read the first two lines of their posts, laugh and skip the rest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 03:01 AM

Quote " she has a far higher power to answer to " my arse, justice must not only be done, it must be SEEN to be done, that can only happen on earth, not some ficticious heaven.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 03:33 AM

Well said Eric. So happy to see the voice of reason arrive. Some of the the comments of support and understanding for her from resident fair-weather socialists and certain individuals who once banged a gong against her evil ways have amazed me. Did you note some asked for the thread to be closed as it was insulting to her !!!

I suppose no thread is complete without a light scattering of crackpots.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: sapper82
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 03:53 AM

I think the vitriol of the majority of the above posts speak volumes more about the mentalities of the posters themselves than about Mrs.Thatcher's time in office.

It is strange how someone so apparently universaly unpopular was elected so many times.
Perhaps ordinary people, those without a political axe to grind, saw things differently?

As has been pointed out and argued MANY times, when she was elected the average "man (and woman) in the street" was totally pissed off with the state the Unions and successive Labour Government had got the country in.

That she did so much to reverse the creaping tide of Socialism can be likened to the use of chemo- or radiotherapy to destroy cancer, for that is the one thing she did achieve, she reversed the cancer of Socialism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 03:55 AM

As I said before, I think this thread should be closed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 04:17 AM

Sapper

The tory constituencies were taken care of very well. We had relations in Cambridgeshire (Thatcher fans) who said recession - what recession? that's how she got re-elected - taking care of that 39% and letting the rest of the country go to hell.

This was while Birmngham and Liverpool were going up in flames and the only industry taking off round Nottingham was the hard drugs trade. It was the first time we had seen beggars on our streets - mostly casualties of the families and ways of life she had broken up.

the gun crime and the knife crime that we hear about today - are all the legacy of the hard drugs industry she imported. when you were a teacher in the inner city in Nottingham - you could see those values taking hold of the young men. people say - oh I understand about Thatcherite values of greed - and they think its about a few yuppies in red braces. At its most feral level - it was about drugs and street life.

No one can deny her her achievements.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 04:24 AM

"WTF is this about "She has a far higher power than us to answer to when she finally gets there" Backwoodsman ?"

If you have to ask the question, you probably don't have the intellect to understand the answer. And your neanderthal need to vent your spleen on a sick old woman confirms it.

I hated her politics, I've never voted Tory and never will, but I'm not the kind of pathetic weed who needs to pour vitriol on someone who is suffering in the worst imaginable way in order to feel good about himself.

Lizzie's right Joe. Time to close this one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 04:33 AM

This thread is about the life of a woman who brought pain misery and suffering to a nation for decades, no one can deny that. Why would anyone wish to close it ?

What is the problem? Can the backward one or the Thatcher Supporters not take the truth ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: sapper82
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 05:29 AM

So what is the Truth Miner?

In 1979 a country brought to it's knees by incompetant Socialist government and trade union intransigence?

A huge steel industry breaking production records but still producing a 2nd class product for which there was no market?

A miners' union led by a socialist demagogue with an inferiority complex about his predecessor that led him to formulate a poorly planned and even worse led strike for which there was NO justification whatsoever?

A Semi-Nationalised car industry that, when the major plants were not on strike, was producing cars so badly constructed that no one wanted to buy them?

I do not deny that Mrs. Thatcher made mistakes, but at least she tried and succeeded, at least for a time, in turning back the cancerous infection of Socialist policies that had all but crippled this country.

The current Socialist shower of crap we have took over an ecconomy that possibly the strongest in Europe and spent the next decade destroying it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Stu
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 06:23 AM

"The current Socialist shower of crap we have took over an ecconomy that possibly the strongest in Europe and spent the next decade destroying "

B.lair and his colleagues are not socialists in any shape or form, but the pathetic, simpering spawn of Thatcher's worst excesses as a destroyer of the social and manufacturing fabric of this country.

History will not judge Thatcher kindly and whilst I don't wish suffering on any person, I'm not going to shed a tear for the fact this old cow is suffering from dementia; as a form of justice it has a certain black irony about it.

Because she's a wealthy old harridan who will get better care than those who have only the health service she destroyed. As my Grandmother spent her final years suffering from alzheimer's disease my grandfather, alone and struggling with great patience, love and fortitude to nurse her in the face of a disintegrating NHS was having to find the money to pay the two lots of poll tax that was levied on him by the Thatcher government; no relief even though she was utterly unable to look after herself. She ended her days on a mixed ward in pretty distressing conditions: a direct result of this foul woman's decision to allow free market economic run institutions that need to be run for patients, not profit.

So bollocks to her, although I have some sympathy with Carol T, but not her criminal brother. What goes around comes around (hey - us real socialists will be back too - Conservatism has been shown as an utter failure).


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 06:27 AM

'she tried and succeeded, at least for a time...'

no she just had the north sea oil money. most of which she squandered on total rubbish like the National Curriculum and the Poll tax.

Running a country like England with the outrageous levels of unemployment like she did - is not really on. It doesn't work, because it brings with it so many social evils. All of which cost money to sort out.

she was lucky - there were a series of unelectable halfwits at the head of the labour party.

anyway we'll see. if you notice there is a definite backlash started against Cameron - now that its starting to sink in that he really does look like getting elected. No one really wants the tories back. apart from the daily mail no one wants the responsibility of having put the bugger in charge.

And despite being rabidly anti-tory I still feel sorry for the Thatcher family and its present difficulties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: sapper82
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 06:39 AM

Stigward:-
"The current Socialist shower of crap we have took over an ecconomy that possibly the strongest in Europe and spent the next decade destroying "

"B.lair and his colleagues are not socialists in any shape or form, but the pathetic, simpering spawn of Thatcher's worst excesses as a destroyer of the social and manufacturing fabric of this country."


T. Bliar was the leader of the LABOUR party, which just happens to be the largest Socialist party in this country.
OK, so he got rid of a bit of outdated Marxist claptrap. So what? He was still a typical socialist leader of The Labour Party.
I.E. Middle Class, privately educated, riding on the backs of the working class without ANY idea at all of what the working class really stands for.


Al, The Community Charge, to give it it's proper name, was brought in because the old fashioned Rates system was past it's sell by date and needed replacement.
The faults of the new tax were that it was awkward to collect, brought into the local taxpaying regime people who had never contributed and it was the tories who brought it in. Other than that, what is wrong with everybody paying something?

As for the NC, Mrs T. was the fist prime minister to accept that the education system was in a mess and was (still is) getting worse. The NC and OFTURD were mistakes, but a bigger mistake would have been to follow the example of her predecessors and do nothing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 07:03 AM

People are going through the same thing now eric.

"no she just had the north sea oil money. most of which she squandered on total rubbish like the National Curriculum and the Poll tax."

North Sea Oil was mortgaged by a Labour government before a barrel had been pumped, and they are STILL mucking about with the national curriculum.

Poll Tax I agree was a poorly thought out disaster.

JM


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 07:03 AM

'as a form of justice it has a certain black irony about it.'
sure does

General Pinochet was detained in London on 17 October 1998 following a request for his arrest and extradition by two Spanish judges investigating some of the 4,000-plus political murders believed to have been committed during his 1973-1990 rule.

Baroness Thatcher demanded his immediate release in a letter to the Times newspaper...........

General Pinochet snatched power from the socialist/democratic government of chile in 1973.

The Guardian, reporting at the time, outlined how the coup had been supported by outside interests


'Having failed to prevent his (Allende) election, and having failed to provoke a military coup to prevent his assuming office, American corporations, led by the International Telephone and Telegraph Company, and aided and abetted by the Nixon administration, set out to destroy Allende by economic means.
The "Anderson Papers" document the calculated steps taken to create a financial crisis. What happened in the end was very close to what was planned in 1970.
"A more realistic hope among those who want to block Allende," the ITT man reported in September of that year, "is that a swiftly deteriorating economy (bank runs, plant bankruptcies etc) will touch off a wave of violence resulting in a military coup." '
Another ITT report said: "Undercover efforts are being made to bring about the bankruptcy of one or two of the major savings and loans associations. This is expected to trigger a run on banks and the closure of some factories, resulting in more unemployment.
"Massive unemployment and unrest might produce enough violence to force the military to move."
The US government joined in these efforts, although cautiously, by cutting off economic assistance to Chile and using its dominant influence on the international development banks to block loans to Allende.
At the same time, it continued to pour in military assistance and maintain close links with the Chilean armed forces. In an off-the-record press briefing in September 1970,
Dr Henry Kissinger told reporters: "I don't think we should delude ourselves that an Allende takeover in Chile would not present massive problems for us, and for democratic forces and pro-US forces in Latin America, and indeed to the whole western hemisphere'

Almost immediately after the military's seizure of power, the junta banned all the leftist parties that had constituted Allende's UP coalition. All other parties were placed in "indefinite recess," and were later banned outright. The dictatorship's violence was directed not only against dissidents, but also against their families and other civilians.
The Rettig Report concluded that 2,279 persons who disappeared during the military government were killed for political reasons, and approximately 30,000 tortured according to the later Valech Report, while several thousand were exiled. The latter were chased all over the world in the frame of Operation Condor, a cooperation plan between the various intelligence agencies of South American countries, assisted by a US communication base in Panama. Pinochet believed these operations were necessary in order to "save the country from communism
- Wikipedia



On October 17, 1998, while visiting the United Kingdom, Pinochet was arrested on a Spanish provisional warrant for the murder in Chile of Spanish citizens while he was president.
Five days later, Pinochet was served with a second provisional arrest warrant from the Spanish judge Baltasar Garzón, charging him with systematic torture, murder, illegal detention, and forced disappearances.

Just two weeks before his arrest, General Pinochet was entertained by the Thatchers at their Chester Square address in London.

While General Pinochet was staying in the rented mansion during his legal battle to avoid extradition to Spain Lady Thatcher thanked her old friend for being an ally during the 1982 Falklands War - and for "bringing democracy to Chile".

After having been placed under house arrest in Britain and initiating a judicial battle, he was eventually released in March 2000 on 'medical grounds' by the then Home Secretary Jack Straw without facing trial.

With friends like that.....!


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 07:15 AM

I really am amazed at the support this old lizard has on this site. Some fine examples of her legacy (above excellent) exposed and still a hand full of tossers who clearly made a quid or two off the backs of the poor openly show support for her !

Hell won't be full until she is in it.

I see the few crackpots above have gone to ground or prayer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Peace
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 07:27 AM

In addition, very few people on this thread--if any--have defended Thatcher's policies. It IS unfortunate that your countrymen and women were foolish enough to keep voting her into power. Have a good look at yourselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Doc John
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 08:50 AM

Whatever one thinks of 'King' Arthur Scargill's style and methods, he has been proved to be right. Attempts by a television 'do-gooder' to discredit him all failed and no appology was ever issued. Inferiority complex about his predecessor, Joe Gormley? I think not, judging from later relevations about Gormley. The Conservatives were always banging on about the looney left, bogieman Wedgie Benn etc; why did Labour not talk about the loony right? Is it for the same reason that the West (and even a pope) were happy enough effect or to see the downfall of Communism while exteme right wing governments in South America were ignored? The greatest medical-political tradgedy in recent times must surely be the early death of John Smith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 09:07 AM

Scargill was totally right in his predictions and his detractors were proved to be scoundrels. I can remember Tebbit coming on the box and saying - not a single miner would lose his job.

Defend that, if you will.

However without knowing it - Scargill helped Thatcher immeasurably by his short sightedness. She promised free collective baraining , and so when she was elected AS put in for huge wage claims. At this point, disability payments and mobility allowances were frozen. It ammounted to a 30% cut which no government has since made good.

In short, he was a bit of a prat - but he had her number.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 09:12 AM

"The greatest medico-political tragedy . . . must surely be the early death of John Smith." (Doc John).

My sentiments entirely, Doc John.

The Romans used free food and free entertainment as a means of social control.

This lot - Left and Right - manage it with unlimited Coronation Street ; unlimited ale ; unlimited football, and unlimited nookie.

She broke the miners. What price the rest of us ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 09:30 AM

What fazes me, too, is this wonderful suggestion from some "think-tank" closely associated with Mr Cameron has suggested that, since the North is fucked, thanks to Thatcher and her mates, it should be

abandoned, and all its denizens should move to Oxfordshire.

What will they think of next ? Soup kitchens, for itinerant Northeners ? Human chimley sweeps ? Or will a deal be cut with Australia and New Zealand, so that Britain's social effluent can once again take a

long journey by sea ?

I would get on my bike, if |I could afford one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: jacqui.c
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 10:15 AM

GUEST,Miner633 - If you don't like the opinions expressed by other people on this site why come here? You really aren't going to change any minds with your rudeness so why not find a website where everyone agrees with your own rather extreme views.

There are as many points of view as there are people and we are all entitled to hold our own view on any given subject. Many of those that you have castigated are highly intelligent, clear thinking individuals, as can be seen from the many threads to which they have contributed.

In my experience those who need to behave in a foul mouthed way, using insulting and derogatory language tend not to have the intellect to hold up a reasoned discussion, which is why they rely on insults and nastiness. All they do IMHO is leave a bad taste in the mouth.

I don't often agree with Lizzie but do think that this thread should be closed as it certainly isn't going anywhere sensible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 10:28 AM

I think the one thing that trolls can't figure out is that their anger only harms themselves. The intended victim is totally unaware of the hatred directed at them. Esp in this case.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Stu
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 10:31 AM

"OK, so he got rid of a bit of outdated Marxist claptrap. So what? He was still a typical socialist leader of The Labour Party."

Well, he got rid of the socialists and embraced the unjust and immoral system that is unregulated capitalism.

Marxism hasn't had it's day at all. In fact, I would go as far as to say the real influence of Marxism is still to come; let's hope we haven't sold everything else off first . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 10:37 AM

'As for the NC, Mrs T. was the fist prime minister to accept that the education system was in a mess and was (still is) getting worse.'

They were reforming it when I started teaching (Plowden and Newsom reports), and they're still bloody reforming it. On the contrary -its the soft option - education, education, education. The kids can't complain. everybody reforms education.

I think you're going a little crazy - saying we should close the thread down. You've forgotten what Thatch was like. She relished a good fight. Certainly gave Kinnock a good biffing in debate every time I listened to Today in Parliament with my head in my hands. I bet she'd quite enjoy the thought that she was still drawing blood all these years after her fall from power.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 11:32 AM

What on earth is the point of 'hating' Margaret Thatcher?

I hate and despise some of the things she did when in office but wishing her ill in her old age will not change one single thing that she did, or thought, in the past.

Perhaps we should now show some of the compassion she singularly failed to show all those years ago?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 11:57 AM

'What on earth is the point of 'hating' Margaret Thatcher?
I hate and despise some of the things she did when in office'

I agree with the sentiment but lest we allow compassion to cloud our memory and fail to learn what her legacy did....…


'A chemical plant which the US says is a key component in Iraq's chemical warfare arsenal was secretly built by Britain in 1985

Documents show British ministers knew at the time that the £14m plant, called Falluja 2, was likely to be used for mustard and nerve gas production.
Senior officials recorded in writing that Saddam Hussein was actively gassing his opponents and that there was a "strong possibility" that the chlorine plant was intended by the Iraqis to make mustard gas. At the time, Saddam was known to be gassing Iranian troops in their thousands in the Iran-Iraq war.

But ministers in the then Thatcher government none the less secretly gave financial backing to the British company involved, Uhde Ltd, through insurance guarantees

Mr Channon, ( then trade minister) in line with Mrs Thatcher's policy of propping up the dictator, said: "A ban would do our other trade prospects in Iraq no good".

The Guardian, Thursday March 6 2003


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 12:21 PM

I've always believed that the real reason that Thatcher got elected was because she appealed to a really rather sick aspect of British culture - that aspect composed of snobishness and envy. In my local paper I remember endless letters from those who believed that their perceived 'social inferiors' were 'getting more that they deserved'. Immigrants, the unemployed, manual workers etc., etc. were all 'spongeing' off of 'respectable' people and it was believed that (rightly or wrongly) Thatcher would punish the 'spongers'. I still regularly meet people who think like that today - and that is as far as their 'politics' ever goes! That is the real reason that she got elected and re-elected and probably why the Tories will get in again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Becca72
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 12:32 PM

To put a different spin on it, dementia was the best thing that happened to my mother. She was an angry, bitter, mean woman most of her adult life. The only time I ever saw her genuinely smile or laugh was after dementia had set in. She forgot what she was so pissed off about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 01:01 PM

according to press reports,it is debatable,whether she has dementia.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: bobad
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 01:13 PM

Miner633, sniping from behind the cloak of anonymity is cowardly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 01:45 PM

What, like you Bobad?

Bryn, you said "unlimited Coronation Street ; unlimited ale ; unlimited football, and unlimited nookie"

Where can I get the second and fourth please?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: bobad
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 02:42 PM

The post to which I was referring in my previous post was deleted leaving mine flapping in the breeze, as it were. The post was a vitriolic attack on another member by someone who is most likely a member here but too cowardly to say these things under his member's name. I'll leave it to you to figure out just who that may be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 03:00 PM

Quote (GuestMiner 03:33 am): Well said Eric. So happy to see the voice of reason arrive.
Quote (GuestMiner 02:22)
Don't take them under your notice, I read the first two lines of their posts, laugh and skip the rest.

So, for reasoned debate you only read the comments which agree with your own views.
Clearly (what you consider) a sound basis for rational debate.

I agree with LizzieCornish (and others), it is time this discussion was locked.
Sorry, but I agree that this thread isn't going anywhere good. -Mod


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This Thread Is Closed.


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