BS: Change is what we need?

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Amos
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 05:15 PM

Todays RCP aggregate of polls shows everyone leaning toward Barack Obama except CNN's:

RCP Average        08/18 - 08/29        --        47.7        43.8        Obama +3.9
Gallup Tracking        08/27 - 08/29        2709 RV        49        41        Obama +8
Rasmussen Tracking        08/27 - 08/29        3000 LV        49        45        Obama +4
CNN        08/23 - 08/24        909 RV        47        47        Tie
USA Today/Gallup        08/21 - 08/23        765 LV        48        45        Obama +3
Hotline/FD        08/18 - 08/24        1022 RV        44        40        Obama +4
ABC News/Wash Post        08/19 - 08/22        LV        49        45        Obama +4

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 04:23 PM

I agree she's more of the same. However, it's got zip to do with her abilities and everything to do with what her abilities are perceived to be by the voting public. It just became a very close reace between Obama and McCain. That is, IMO, McCain's handlers made a brilliant choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Alice
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 04:22 PM

Why would a man running on "experience" choose an unexperienced unknown.. that is the current question on the CNN tv news. "Many in Washington shaking their heads".

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Alice
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 04:20 PM

Sarah Palin = Anti-Change (more of G. W. Bushism)

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 04:13 PM

And just how do you know she wears a bra?

Well, I am WAY ting . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Amos
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 02:47 PM

Change? Palin?

A far-right religious nutjob has already had a crack at ruining the country.

The only change involved is the bra size.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 01:52 PM

She's definitely more of the status quo. If she and McCain get elected, expect the oil industry to continue to dictate energy and foreign policy in this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 01:27 PM

What change does Sarah Palin bring? She is an under-qualified, blustering, pawn of the oil companies.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 12:59 PM

"Change is what we need?"


                   And change is what Sarah Palin gives us!

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 09:31 PM

Hey, Sawed-Off--

UBL hadn't killed 3000 AMericans when that occurred, IF it occurred.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 07:33 PM

"We took our eye off the real threat of a major terrorists act and consequently had over 3000 of our citizens killed.."

This "WE" myth goes back more than 8 years to when BJ Clinton refused to take UBL into custody when he was offered by Sudan.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 06:28 PM

Speaking of which, thanks, Hubby.

Need to change to a synthetic in the car. Winter on the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: pdq
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 06:20 PM

The idea that habeas corpus was damaged in any way (in the last 7 years) is silly. As far as I can tell, exactly one terror suspect was an American citizen arrested on American soil: Jose Padilla. He was stepping off a plane from a foreign country where he had met with al-Qaeda operatives. Padilla's name was quickly released to the public and relatives were informed. His case was eventually adjudicated (he plead guilty) and he had legal council.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 06:20 PM

Tell ya' what Hubbybubbablubby.......You got change you don't want, I'll take it off your sorry ass. Wanna' hand over a C note for a pack of Juicy Fruit, I'll take the change. Wanna' finance a few thousand extra on your new SUV, I'll take the change!

And if Obama, his wife, his kids, or any other Democrat with the brains to drain urine from a Tony Lama, can replace that dubious, jerkwad, limpdick, piece of shit in the White House..........well, THAT is a change I really want!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 05:56 PM

"Change is what we need?"

Folding money is easier to carry . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 05:46 PM

Trashing habeas corpus is a crime.

W, as the current practitioner, should be hauled before the courts first for it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 05:25 PM

"We trashed an 800 year old internationally recognized principle of habeas corpes..."

Is Abraham Lincoln's actions exempted from this earth shattering truth?

Or FDR's detention of hundreds of thousands of Japanese, German and Italian Citizens of the USA with no charges or trials?

I know Abe's and FDR's actions do not justify GWB's actions but you cannot make believe that no one as over ridden Habeas Corpus for 800 years before GWB came along. How about the policy of Special Rendition that Clinton created? Did those guys get a lawyer and a trial in Civil court before being hauled off for torture in a foreign country?

Amos should be beating on you right now with his "out of context" stick.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:57 AM

There's a smell of sulphur and rotting flesh emanating from those to links.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:46 AM

Ammo for su su http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/birt_dees.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:44 AM

Bobert you seem to have a good grasp of what we have lost.
Was that list extemporaneous?

A wonderful chew toy for hubby...this will keep him busy for weeks

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:43 AM

And that is real change for you!

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:35 AM

McCain has chosen Alaska governor Sarah Palin to be his running mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 07:55 AM

Ahhhhhh, yes, Kendall, "privacy" is not explicitely mentioned in the Bill of Rights but if one reads thru the 4th ammendment privacy is inferrred... Subsequent Supreme Court rulings over the years have used "privacy" in their opinions...

BTW, Hubster, how did you like the list of changes that Bush & Co. have made to our country???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: kendall
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 07:37 AM

Bobert, that was very well stated. Question, where is the word privacy in the constitution?

It will do little good to just put a democrat in the White House We also need a filibuster proof congress. Otherwise, it's just 4 more years of gridlock.

In my not so humble opinion, the neo cons have ruined my country, and the democrats have helped by doing nothing.9 trillion dollars...three times as much money as there is in circulation in every country in the world! A Pox on both their houses!

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 01:34 AM

Olddude, I think you have it right...except for one thing...Obama is their guy, too. The only change there is going to be, is in the public's mind..that things are going to get better, and Obama will make it easier.....ok, now pick yourself off the floor from laughing..that is, if you're not a dummy! Bill D has it absolutely correct!..and don't kid yourself otherwise!

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 11:26 PM

Well, shit. Susu's Hubby is back and starting political threads. Just in time for a busy season.

Is there a way to block posts by individuals? His are calculated to cause arguments and bad feelings. He's one of those bottom-feeders who seems to spend all of his time trying to generate bad feelings for other people.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 11:20 PM

Thank you, Bill and artbrooks.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 11:18 PM

The stimulus checks that Bush sent out changed a few mumbers, but we are in a sorry state. Poverty levels remain steady is something to be proud of?

Even worse, we borrowed the money for the rebate from China. Deficit spending - you can get away with it if the debt is held internally, when you owe foreign governments like the massive debt we owe China for the Iraq war and then borrow more for the incentive check is not the act of a responsible leadership. Our dollar is in the toilet because of the foreign debt. What a mess we have. Please God let it be Obama this time, please

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 10:48 PM

The "Democratic majority" in Congress is a myth. The Senate is evenly divided (49 Democrats, 49 Republicans and 2 Independents), so exactly nothing can or will happen that the Republicans don't approve.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 10:18 PM

"...they are normal and actually helpful,..."

Oh sure...if they are not continuously used as a ploy and end run to shove down our throats what would NEVER pass scrutiny if he tried to pass it normally!

Bush has used them to do things which one professor of Constitutional law has suggested are probably illegal.

Most presidents have used them VERY sparingly...Bush uses them almost every week to just enact any whim.

You have no idea..........

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 08:31 PM

Yes, Hubby, you are right... The House has not been able to get much done so...

...we need alot more Dems to defeat the Repub tricks...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: pdq
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 08:19 PM

George W. Bush and those big bad signing statements...

here is what Bernard Nussbaum (Clinton adm lawyer) had to say (hint: they are normal and actually helpful, besides showing that the president is "involved"):

"...appropriate occasions perform useful and legally significant functions. These functions include (1) explaining to the public, and particularly to constituencies interested in the bill, what the President believes to be the likely effects of its adoption, (2) directing subordinate officers within the Executive Branch how to interpret or administer the enactment, and (3) informing Congress and the public that the Executive believes that a particular provision would be unconstitutional in certain of its applications, or that it is unconstitutional on its face, and that the provision will not be given effect by the Executive Branch to the extent that such enforcement would create an unconstitutional condition."

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Alice
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 08:17 PM

change - Health Care for Everyone
change - develop alternative energy to a non-fossil fuel future
change - design energy efficiency into everything, from transportation to appliances to buildings to city planning to the energy grid

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 08:13 PM

Google search, McCain rino...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mccain+rino&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=


Google search, "McCain is a commie...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22mccain+is+a+commie%22&btnG=Search


..."McCain is a liberal"...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22mccain+is+a+liberal%22&btnG=Search


..."McCain is a socialist"...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22mccain+is+a+socialist%22&btnG=Search


..."McCain is a pinko"...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22mccain+is+a+pinko%22&btnG=Search


LOL. That was fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 08:04 PM

Many of my Republican friends and acquaintances were calling him those things back then. This was after I told them the I was considering voting for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 08:02 PM

Well, McCan't sure has done a lot for his home state...it's #4 in the most home foreclosures in July 2008. I reckon those folks might want a change.

My Rog would like a change. He'd like to be able to retire this October without worrying about how we could keep/afford any healthcare with my pre-existing and the group rates we get now through his employment.

No one has had a raise or bonus in several years, that we know...the rate of inflation keeps rising. Yep, we'd like a change.

Oh, and that pesky Congress? Well, yeah, some of them needed to grow a backbone and I don't just mean the Dems. The others could have stood up to the RoveR machine, too. But, then his puppet would just use Signing Statements to negate what he didn't like anyway. Also, it helps to have a good, solid majority in order to be effective!

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: pdq
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 08:00 PM

"...they were calling him back in the 2000 election (socialist, commie, rino, etc.)."

Source, please. You can make up quotes all day long, but that only makes them fiction, not fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:49 PM

And I find it ironic that Republicans are now calling McCain a conservative, considering what they were calling him back in the 2000 election (socialist, commie, rino, etc.).

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: pdq
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:48 PM

Months ago I predicted that McCain would choose "Governor Tim" Pawlenty of Minnesota as VP candidate. I now believe it will be Mitt Romney who is better accepted by the Republican's conservative base.

Pawalenty will not be able to bring liberal Mennesota to McCain anyway, and Bob Barr probably will not drop out if a liberal like Pawlenty is the nominee. Last polls I saw showed Obama and McCain at about 43-44% each with Bob Barr pulling about 8-10% is some states. There are probably fewer than 10 states that are really "in play" (no Republican can ever win California or New York again, for example) and Barr may do what Ross P-Rot did in 1992: hand the Democrats a victory with only 43.01% of the vote. Hopefully, Barr will feel he did OK and pushed the choice of VP right, and drop out.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:48 PM

There's nothing conservative about George W Bush. He's a radical, not a conservative.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:46 PM

The Democrats in Congress are definitely a dissapointment. They haven't done the things we elected them to do (and which the Republicans definitely don't want them to do). However, the approval numbers for the Democrats in Congress are higher those for the Republicans in Congress.

So using the same logic as has been displayed above, I guess that would mean that it's the Republicans that need to be voted out of office.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:26 PM

Well,

I do think change is needed.

I think we need to change leadership in the house. House polls are dreadful. In the lower teens, I think. Yep, the democrats have done absolutely nothing in the last two years. But then again, whenever the republicans had the majority, they were too concerned with trying to appease the screaming dems and trying to "share" leadership since the numbers were so close. That was mistake number 1.

Although, I'm not real excited about McCain, he'll be the most welcome change if we can't have a truly conservative president. Although, Bush was the closest thing we've had to "conservative" since Reagan. That's really not saying much. (Yes...I said it.)

I'm really expecting McCain to pick a conservative running mate. That would really make things exciting considering McCain's age. But McCain's age adds some stability to the experience argument considering the threats going on in the world.

But those are a few changes that I'd like to see.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 06:24 PM

Wake up? Gee..I suspect all those Ambien CR ads are plots to keep us snoozing! ☺

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: irishenglish
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 06:06 PM

As a wise man said the other night-WAKE UP AMERICA!

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 06:01 PM

*tsk*..Hubby is validating just what I have been predicting for 2-3 years. The Republicans are using every trick in the book to create well-timed short term 'progress' -- just in time for the elections.

They are 'proposing' troop withdrawal on a vague schedule, sending checks out to provide a bit of good will and some bumps in the 'economic progress' graph, promising 'more oil drilling' while engineering some brief reduction in gas prices to 'only' $3.50 or so.

Stuff like this is being used to distract us from the HUGE scandals of the last 8 years...(many of which Bobert has kindly noted). They are counting on 'short attention span' and, again, targeting single-issue voters with scary predictions about abortions, gun laws, banned prayer, teaching of *gasp* EVOLUTION, and vague hints of 'those' people getting too much power in our white led society....and more.

George Bush has less than a 30% approval rating, but Republicans are pretending that if we just REelect them, it will be all better! CRAP! Bush was a disaster, but he didn't do all this totally by himself! In 8 years, the administration OF Republicans has put in place a bureaucracy dedicated to TRYING to ensure that conservative...VERY conservative... ideas will gain something like self-perpetuating entrenchment! They want to CONTROL the courts, DEFINE the rules so that anything a Republican president does is ruled "ok by definition", turn 'democracy' into a lip-service JOKE, and rattle sabers and flex our muscles at our 'enemies' as if we can just "establish democracies" by fiat!

No...not every Republican buys into this charade, but the inner group that has gotten settled in has given the hold-outs just enough to make most of them *sigh* and promise to try one more time....THAT is why the race seems so close, even though everyone knows that they are taking a chance following a debacle with hollow words about 'improvement'..


who me? cynical? naawwwwwww....

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: irishenglish
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 05:39 PM

A scant handful of articles makes you believe everything is rosy? In case you hadn't noticed, getting two economists to agree on anything is about the same odds as an ice hockey team from Ecuador winning the Olympics. I shudder to think how you feel when there is solid proof regarding the sorry state the following are in: Iraq, education, energy, gas prices, insurance, social security......................................you get the idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 05:32 PM

I'd LIKE it if Pocatello were annexed by Canada (i.e., Alberta). They've got all that oil money and we're a have-not Province.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 05:29 PM

Watch Clinton's Speech Susu's hubby. He deftly and accurately compares the difference in results from good government and what McCain is offering to continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 05:10 PM

Getting annexed by Canada would be an improvement.

Subject: RE: BS: Change is what we need?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 05:09 PM

You already HAVE been. Ya just don't know it yet.