BS: Palin VP McCain choice

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 10:18 AM

In any event, isn't it all kind of pointless now?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 10:13 AM

So a bipartisan body of elected officials found her to be in violation, and another body appointed by the governor's office found her to not be in violation. Hmmm...

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 09:39 AM

ANCHORAGE — A report released on Monday by a state board found that Gov. Sarah Palin did not apply improper pressure to try to dismiss a state trooper who was her former brother-in-law and did not violate state ethics laws in the firing of her public safety commissioner.

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The report by the Alaska Personnel Board contradicts the conclusions last month of a separate inquiry into the matter overseen by a bipartisan legislative panel. The earlier inquiry found that Ms. Palin had breached a state ethics act by pressing to have the trooper, Mike Wooten, fired. The panel said, however, that the governor was within her rights to fire the public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan.

The personnel board's report, based on an investigation led by an independent counsel, Timothy J. Petumenos, concluded that there was no evidence to prove Ms. Palin or any state employee had acted improperly in Mr. Monegan's dismissal.

(NYT)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 10:18 AM

"Can't every 7th grader say Dred Scott?"


                     Yes, but they might not disagree with it!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 12:02 AM

Charley, Her self proclaimed area of expertise is big oil!

She did not want to touch the hot potato.

In Republican speak: She did not need to discuss the hot potatoe.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 11:57 PM

The Couric question was 'what Supreme Court decisions (other than Roe v Wade' might you also disagree with'?


Can't every 7th grader say Dred Scott?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 08:49 PM

I was reviewing some reaction in the press to Palin's apparent ignorance of Supreme Court decisions and came across this case which she probably knew about and might have mentioned:

... a Supreme Court ruling came down in a case known as Baker v. Exxon. Most of you will recall the devastating oil spill that occurred in Alaska in 1989 when the supertanker Exxon Valdez slammed into Bligh Reef, pouring 11 million gallons (some say over 30 million gallons) of crude oil into the pristine waters of Alaska's Prince William Sound. Many of those in Alaska at the time probably either know someone affected, or were themselves affected personally by the spill. Many of you who were out of state, cut up your Exxon credit cards, watched footage of oil-soaked otters and sea birds, and deeply mourned the loss of a place you'd never even seen.

The Alaska Natives in the area, and those who fished the Sound lost their livelihoods, and their 'holy place'. The loss on many levels cannot be overestimated. Today, in 2008, if you dig down about 8 inches into the sandy beaches of many islands in the Sound you will find thick black crude oil.

Well, the extremely predictable ruling came down from the U.S. Supreme Court today. In a 5-3 vote the court decided to hack and slash the original $5 billion settlement, which had already been hacked and slashed to $2.5 billion in punitive damages. Now the Supreme Court says the amount owed to Prince William Sound fishermen and Alaska Natives affected by the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill is $507.5 million.

So did Palin blink or did she have a lapse of memory?

Beats me!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 07:44 PM

Well, Charley H, I noticed that Palin, while saying that she opposed abortion in all circumstances, said that in the case of a 15 year old becoming pregnant from rape that she would "counsel" the girl to "choose" the carry the child and to explore adoption...

That sounds to me like "pro-choice" and I think the Dems should make an issue out of it...

Then when she falls back on the rest of her answer that abortion is best left up to the states (overturning of Roe v. Wade) then I would ask her if she would support vaginal inspection stations at state borders... That would torque her purdy little head...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 07:21 PM

Well, hopefully she'll tear up Biden and get things back on track.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 05:21 PM

I found the segment on Supreme Court decisions enlightening. In the Palin interview series with Katie Couric, she responded to a question about Roe vrs Wade and was somewhat vague about what her position was. However, Couric then asked her repeatedly what other Supreme Court decisions she considered important and she couldn't mention one specific case or one specific issue. Nothing about capital punishment, school prayer, discrimination, labor rights, corporate rights. Nothing except to say she was for the state courts making such decisions rather than the Federal Supreme Court.

That lady has got a lot of homework to do before she could even pass a high school civics course. But she looks great!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 04:11 PM

Because I have seen Russia of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 03:17 PM

Fugue of fancy in F minor

McCain admitted yesterday that he tells thetruth 100% of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 11:43 AM

Bruce:

I think your analogy is a bit desperate.    Palin started this fugue of humor by saying something ridiculous. A very different situation.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 11:28 AM

YES

Now, what is your answer?


                Why would you think we could trust you?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Oct 08 - 11:09 AM

"I have nt accused Ms. Palin of saying something she didn't say--I merely forwarded for public amusement the latest fugue of fancy started by her own ridiculous claim.
"


Remember this when I post some right-wing blog about Obama and the madrassa he went to... Just forwarding for public amusement, you know...

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: TIA
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:14 PM

"Were you working undercover for Isreali Intelligence?"

NO

Now, what is your answer?


.........

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: TIA
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:14 PM

"Were you working undercover for Isreali Intelligence?"

YES

Now, what is your answer?


.........

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:12 PM

Excerpted from
As Governor, Palin Was Quiet on Many Key Issues
By WILLIAM YARDLEY, New York Times
Published: October 1, 2008

TRADE Ms. Palin does not appear to have made any trade missions since taking office, and former state officials said the state's trade staff had been reduced under her watch.

Alaska has also sharply reduced its role in the Northern Forum, an association of state and regional governments from countries including Canada, Russia, Japan and China that works on common issues in northern regions like economic development, flooding and global warming.

Under Mr. Murkowski, Ms. Palin's predecessor, the state sent senior administration officials to the forum's meetings and contributed $60,000 to $100,000 to the forum each year, according to the forum's executive director, Priscilla Wohl.

Under Ms. Palin, the state has reduced its spending to the base-level membership dues, $15,000, and the administration has not attended any forum meetings, including one last fall in Russia.

"Had she participated, in the last 18 months she would have met ambassadors, governors, heads of the European Union's programs, of United Nations programs," Ms. Wohl said.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:01 PM

Were you working undercover for Isreali Intelligence?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: TIA
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 10:39 PM

Drop the BS literalist arguments.

No matter how it is phrased, is being able to "see Russia" qualification to be veep?

I have been to Moscow several times.
Will BB and Rig be willing to support me as Veep based on this alone?

Yes or No will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 10:28 PM

Women are just as much candidates for affirmative action as are ethnic and racial minorities. And the way Palin acts, she seems to think she needs it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 09:30 PM

"When Putin rears his little head I'll ask him if thats a ICBM in his pocket or is he just glad to see me, cuz there is only one thing he wants and thats the whole world. So whatchu gonna ask Putin Joe, well whatcha gonna say? cat gotyer tongue?"

I ahh ah I wouldn't have said what You just said

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 07:00 PM

Hey, Ms. Sarah ain't no lightweight... Misguided??? Yeah.. But she will give Biden all he wants with her little well honed folksie tricks...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 06:55 PM

"The comparison between Ms Palin's experience and Obama's is an inept one. They just don't match up--"


                   Sarah Palin was never a candidate for affirmative action!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 06:35 PM

Amos governess is now on the sexist list, just like the word actress instead of actor

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 06:34 PM

answer John McCain
Palin shovel

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 06:07 PM

Bruce:

The comparison between Ms Palin's experience and Obama's is an inept one. They just don't match up--Obama's demonstrated competency far exceeds Ms. Palin's even if she is the governess of a small State. I have nt accused Ms. Palin of saying something she didn't say--I merely forwarded for public amusement the latest fugue of fancy started by her own ridiculous claim.

Make no mountain out of a molehill.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 05:32 PM

A rose by any other name...picture

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 04:57 PM

I would have never imagined that I would have to admit that Harriet Myers is more qualified to be VP or President than the actual Repuiblican 'selectee'.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 04:14 PM

"IF she had spoken sensibly she would have been much less vulnerable to such attempts."


                  And the expectations would be much higher for her to perform well in the debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:50 PM

"What has laid Ms Palin open to ridicule on this statement is not the detailed veracity of the literal statement but the fact that she brought it up to suppoert an argument that proximity is the same as understanding, "

THAT is not what you have been saying-

""Just when you thought the whole "I can see Russia from Alaska" thing couldn't get any funnier...CNN's Gary Tuchman delivers the goods: it turns out that Sarah Palin has never seen Russia from Alaska.

Tuchman went up to the part of Alaska from which you can actually see Russia, a remote island called Little Diomede located just 2.4 miles from it's Russian twin, Big Diomede.

It turns out Gary Tuchman's trip to Little Diomede sets him apart from Sarah Palin -- because she's never actually been there, nor has she set eyes on its neighbor in Russia.

...

It's going to be fun watching McCain-land spin this one, and it's going to be even more fun watching Tina Fey parody it. "

Feel free to criticize her experience- as I will Obama's- but your statements are that she should be criticized for saying something that Tuchman has proven wrong- EVEN IF SHE DID NOT SAY IT!


So, Obama can get the same treatment, and you have no reason to complain.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:34 PM

And protect us from witches, ya know?


And Bruce, I am fully aware that her statement "You can see Russia from land in ALaska" is perfectly truwe as long as you limit the statement to include islands. What has laid Ms Palin open to ridicule on this statement is not the detailed veracity of the literal statement but the fact that she brought it up to suppoert an argument that proximity is the same as understanding, which is a ludicrous claim, especially since the entire context of political discussions involving "Russia" does mean the foreshore on the Bering Strait, or some uninhabited island mid-strait, but the machinations of political intrigue occurring thousands of miles away in Moscow. The patent ridicuous disingenuous of her pert little assertion left her wide open to be a laughing stock because it was so laughable on the face of it.

Furthermore (and I don't know why I even need to explain this to someone of your usual intelligence) the post I relayed concerning putting her claim to restr by measuring the altitude her house would have to reach to be able to view Russian land is itself so silly as to simply add to the humour, and was clearly intended to compound the sarcasm, not be a rebuttal of her actual statement.

The ground truth is that you can see a Russian island from an ALaskan island in the middle of the Strait.

The TIna Fey parody and all the hoohawe surrounding it is irony, parody, horseplay and sarcasm. IF she had spoken sensibly she would have been much less vulnerable to such attempts.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:33 PM

No one is doubting that one can see some part of the Russian federation from some part of Alaska. One cannot see Russia from there. One can see a Siberian island. What people have trouble with is whether this counts a foreign policy experience. In fact if she could see Russia from he back yard then it would be better experience than theoretically being able to see some part of Siberia 550 miles from her back yard which she has never visited.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:30 PM

For Chrissakes...just take a few moments and listen (or read) what she has to say. The only justifucation for her being a VP candidate is the old Carswell theory.......even incompetents are entitle to representation.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:22 PM

Here is the data of contributions from oil company employees (and in McCain's case, PAC, Political Action Committees, too) to the presidential campaigns.

http://prezoilmoney.oilchangeusa.org/index.php?type=search

Choose the candidate and then click on TABLE VIEW and then click on each company icon and you can see the contributor who donated and listed their employer as that company.

The RELATIONSHIP VIEW page that first comes up is very confusing. TABLE VIEW is easier to read and lists each person's name.

Total Obama as of creation of that table: Accepted $404,160 in oil contributions to election campaigns since 2000. $0 of those dollars were from industry PACS.

Total McCain as of creation of that table: Accepted $1,196,680 in oil contributions to election campaigns since 2000. $32,900 of those dollars were from industry PACS.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:22 PM

ooops - correction 'some English' :)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:20 PM

Don't bother- Amos has shown no interest in the truth when it comes to criticism of those he is opposed to.


But he sure is certain the rest of us should doublecheck everything we say that is critical of those he supports.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:18 PM

Well it's never really possible to explain a joke is it to someone who obviously doesn't 'get it'

However it's good to know that Gary Tuchman, in his umflinching journalistic search for the TRUTH, was prepared to take all the trouble and expense of visiting Little Diomede to find out what he could have discovered at the touch of a mouse courtesy of Erik

I have watched the interview with Couric and agree that mere proximity (I believe that was Palin's actual word) across a channel or shared border doesn't give one an insight into a foreign country.

There are some Brits, would you believe it, that claim to understand French politics or even what makes the Scots tick! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:17 PM

Sarah Palin never said she could see Alaska from her house (that was a Tina Fey joke in the SNL skit).
Palin said Russia could be seen from a location in Alaska, which is true.
She was not joking - she was trying to claim international security experience because of Alaska's close proximity to Russia.
There are plenty of videos online of her statement in the Couric interview.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:16 PM

"Palin's foreign policy experience came up when she gave her first major interview, on Sept. 11 to ABC News. Asked what insight she had gained from living so close to Russia, she said: "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska."

The comment met with derision from Palin's critics and was turned into a punch line for a "Saturday Night Live" skit featuring actress Tina Fey. Appearing as Palin, she proclaimed, "I can see Russia from my house!""

So now, Amos will hold Palin to account for the statements made by Tina Fey in spoofing Palin. I will remember that this is permissable, and start to work on various proofs that Obama is whatever his critics have said about him, according to the standards as given by Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:09 PM

Amos,


"CNN's Gary Tuchman delivers the goods: it turns out that Sarah Palin has never seen Russia from Alaska."


The real Palin quote is: "They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska."

So who is the sleaze, stating that someone said something, then proved it false, WHEN THEY NEVER SAID IT TO BEGIN WITH?

Same as you have done with the Bush Impeachment thread- YOU claim Bush said something that he did not, then hold him to account for YOUR statement being false.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:02 PM

She is a literalist with a lilt of country in her words.

Nuance is lost on the woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 01:49 PM

No Emma she was not Joking. She tried to elaborate and explain it AND she brought Canada into it.

Have you seen the Couric interviews?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM

To quote an ex pat American blogger who apparently understands a joke......

'Any intelligent person knows that Sarah Palin was joking when she said that she could Russia from her house.
It's pure hyperbole.
But everyone in the media keeps repeating it over and over, and I'm certain that some people probably actually believe it to be true.
I bet that even the people that understand the hyperbole probably don't realize just how much of an exaggeration it really is.'

It seems those folks over at The Huffington Post must be having a bad day for real news however as this 'shock, horror revelation' made their frontpage today.

'The town's residents barely knew who Palin was, and one of them didn't know she was the VP nominee.'

Nothing like throwing in a little amusement at the expemse of the ignorant 'yokels' to titilate the readers while you're at it!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 01:35 PM

"Sarah Palin said she does not support the morning after pill as a form of contraception, strongly implied that homosexuality was a choice, and could not name a single source of news that she turns to for information, in yet another installment of her interview series with Katie Couric.

Appearing on CBS Evening News, the Alaska Governor seemed calmer than she had been in previous sit downs. But while she only occasionally provided the type of befuddled responses that had even conservatives scratching their heads, her interview was nevertheless shaky.

Asked what newspapers and magazines she reads, Palin - a journalism major in college - could not name one publication.

"I've read most of them, again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media," she said at first. Couric responded, "What, specifically?"

"Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of me all these years."

"Can you name a few?"

"I have a vast variety of source where we get our news," Palin said. "Alaska isn't a foreign country, where it's kind of suggested, 'wow, how could you keep in touch with what the rest of Washington, D.C., may be thinking when you live up there in Alaska?' Believe me, Alaska is like a microcosm of America."

"

(Huffington)

(What IS it about Sarah and specifics???? Does she think her face will break if she names a fact, a time and place, a particular?)


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 01:31 PM

"Just when you thought the whole "I can see Russia from Alaska" thing couldn't get any funnier...CNN's Gary Tuchman delivers the goods: it turns out that Sarah Palin has never seen Russia from Alaska.

Tuchman went up to the part of Alaska from which you can actually see Russia, a remote island called Little Diomede located just 2.4 miles from it's Russian twin, Big Diomede.

It turns out Gary Tuchman's trip to Little Diomede sets him apart from Sarah Palin -- because she's never actually been there, nor has she set eyes on its neighbor in Russia.

Here's the video of Tuchman's report:

Click.

Tuchman says that only 150 people live on Little Diomede, and that the town of Diomede has no streets and no cars. The poverty rate is over 40%, there is no television, and the only practical way to reach it is by helicopter. Anchorage (near Palin's hometown) is 550 miles away.

No Alaskan governor has ever visited Little Diomede, though indicted U.S. Senator Ted Stevens has made the trip. The town's residents barely knew who Palin was, and one of them didn't know she was the VP nominee.

It's going to be fun watching McCain-land spin this one, and it's going to be even more fun watching Tina Fey parody it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 01:11 PM

Well, "Americans all" should be amended... lots of Americans are ignorant of the geography and news of the states. But, since the building of the trans-Alaska oil pipeline in the 1970s, the drilling controversies, the Exxon Valdez spill... Alaska and "Big Oil" are words well connected in our history.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 12:55 PM

I think the Big Oil reference is not to campaign contributions, but rather the courting of "Big Oil" to drill, drill, drill in Alaska. It is part of Alaska history that Americans are all familiar with. A google of "Alaska Palin Big Oil" will bring up lots of news accounts about her policy in governing Alaska.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 12:42 PM

NO candidate takes money from oil companies because corporate contributions are illegal!

But Obama, like Clinton and John McCain, has accepted donations from oil and gas company employees — $222,309 in Obama's case from donors from Exxon, Shell, Chevron and others, according to campaign-finance data.
Two oil company CEOs have pledged to raise at least $50,000 each as part of Obama's fundraising team.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 12:22 PM

She is more than likely to be guided by Rapture beliefs as sataed by Donuel 'noted provocateur'

It pays to be paid by mining and big oil.