BS: Palin VP McCain choice

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:53 PM

Ike, Rigs???Surely you jest... Ike warned of the military/industrial conmplex and John McCain is their hero... Where is the similarity other than both were bald/ing and looked old???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:42 PM

re Obama and Iran:

"Speaking on other national security matters, Obama said he would not take military action off the table in dealing with Iran, but diplomacy and sanctions can't be overlooked.

The Islamic republic is a "major threat" and it would be "unacceptable" for the rogue nation to develop a nuclear weapon, he said.

"It is unacceptable for Iran to possess a nuclear weapon, it would be a game changer," Obama said. "It's sufficient to say I would not take military action off the table and that I will never hesitate to use our military force in order to protect the homeland and the United States' interests.""



BTW, SRS, I do not teach. I deal with what happens in the real world.


My question is whether he would take the action he sees as possible in time- I have more confidence that McCain would use the minimum force at an earlier time, rather than a larger attack too late.

Just my opinion, which is what I base my decisions on.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:30 PM

Rig,

And this is a bad thing????

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:29 PM

McCain seems like Eisenhower to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:29 PM

Actually, I was not happy with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: irishenglish
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:27 PM

So did you live in fear when the Republicans had control of the House,Senate and the White HOuse?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:27 PM

Yo, I-Eng, did ya' notice that I refrained from callin' John "McCain" anyhting but John "McCain" in my last post???

I'll hold up my end of the deal as long as bb holds up his...

And, yes, I do believe that Colin Powell was correct in agreeing with Obama that talking with your adversaries decreases the chances of war... This is a ***real issue***, unlike all the puff that Palin spoke of last night...

B!~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:25 PM

No need to pardon you- I would hope that thinking individuals would want to vote for the candidate that they think will produce the best results for the country.

That is what I am doing, and what I think many here are, as well.

That DOES NOT mena that we should not try to inform other WHY we feel the way we do, and perhaps give information to those who still have open minds.


WHy do all the liberals here worry about all the "evil" things that McCain would legislate if he was president? I was under the impression that the Democrats had a lock on both the House, and Senate- one would think that they might be the legislative branch...


I fear ONE party in control of both House and Senate AND the White House MORE than I fear the words of McCain telling the Russians they have crossed a line.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: irishenglish
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:08 PM

Yes beardedbruce, and I will vote for the one whom I feel will keep us from war, rather than one who will lead us towards it. Pardon me-but thats why its a fucking democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:03 PM

Well, one thing is for sure and that is when John "McCain" used the Georgian situation politically with his "We are all Georgians" he not only did not speak for me and millions of other Americans but he stuck his big stupid finger in Putin's eye... I don't want any more of stupid cowboy foriegn policy and that is ****excatly**** what we have seen from John "McCain"... Stupid, sabre rattling, Cold War arrogant, cowboy foriegn policy!!!

Nothin' more and nothin' less...

Talk about staying in Iraq for the next 100 years??? He means it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 05:52 PM

This thread was tedious long time ago, but it's only been "four days"!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 05:50 PM

Here we go with known unknown about WMDs once again.

The only country in the Middle East which definitely has these is, of course, Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 05:35 PM

Since Bush has let the EU and UN do what they wanted ( and has stated that diplomacy was the path he was taking) I disagree with your charectorization.

Bush has goaded Iran through threats and his crony's suggestions of imminent invasion--that's not a diplomatic approach. He has directed maneuvers to take place in a threatening manner near Iran. That isn't diplomatic, or letting someone else take care of it.

You can disagree with my characterization all you want--I disagree with your view of the world and methods of arguing important issues--your approach is so flawed I'm frankly concerned that you're in a position of responsibility to be teaching others. If I had a child in your class I'd have him transferred out. When it comes to public discourse, you seem to feel it unnecessary to bother to think for yourself when you can cut and paste, assassinate characters, and throw straw men into the arena as a distraction from the subject at hand.

I generally avoid threads where you're active, and I will remove myself from this one. Your methods are calculated to infuriate, not inform.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 05:20 PM

"And you think McCain should keep doing that? "

Since Bush has let the EU and UN do what they wanted ( and has stated that diplomacy was the path he was taking) I disagree with your charectorization.

Thus, your question is meaningless. Since BUSH is not doping that , and NcCain is NOT doing that, why should I think that McCain would keep doing what Bush is NOT doing???

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 05:14 PM

. . .but the WORLD'S perception is what will determine how Iran reacts. I do not see that Obama would provide any reason for Iran to stop its WMD program: I do see that McCain MIGHT take action (possibly military, but certaionly non-nuclear) BEFORE all possibility of a non-nuclear resolution is gone.

I see four more years of stupidity, inspired by Bush's immoral example, should McCain get into office. Obama might actually TALK to the Iranians--wouldn't that be a novel concept? Bush's silent treatment accompanied by a big stick has stirred up a world of angry ants in the Middle East, attacking mindlessly. And you think McCain should keep doing that?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 05:10 PM

The Handlers for Palin are taking the Don't ask don't tell about your qualifications to be president......too far.

She played hockey and basketball.
Does she play chess, poker?

toon time = POKER HIGH STAKES

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 05:03 PM

irishenglish,

"Wouldn't, for everybodies sake, you hope that step D never happened, no matter who is elected? "

I may hope so, but don't you think I should both promote and vote for the candidate who I beleive will prevent that war, rather than the one that, IMHO will bring us much closer to that step?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 05:01 PM

Too much beer at the convention http://usera.ImageCave.com/donuel/JohnMcPain.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:58 PM

That's true. And it was not her job at the time to be sending back federal funds intender for her constituents, either.

She is All-American. She is simultaneously a cowboy and apple pie.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:53 PM

"'I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq.'"




                      That's because the war in Iraq was a waste of time, and she's a busy lady.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:52 PM

"You don't cause a nuclear war just by talking"


Well, you do cause one by allowing the development of WMD by an unstable regime that has threatened another country ( who has 80 - 400 nuclear weapons of their own). I have been watching the EU and UN "Talk" with Iran for the last 4 years- and they have accomplished nothing except tp allow the Iranians to get that much closer to having WMD.

I DID NOT say that Obama would do nothing- but the WORLD'S perception is what will determine how Iran reacts. I do not see that Obama would provide any reason for Iran to stop its WMD program: I do see that McCain MIGHT take action ( possibly military, but certaionly non-nuclear) BEFORE all possibility of a non-nuclear resolution is gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:49 PM

Asked about whether the scrutiny of Palin had been fair, Obama replied that he had been under the microscope for the 23 months of his campaign while Palin had been in the media spotlight for "what, four days."

He also said that he assumed that Palin, only the second woman on a major-party presidential ticket, would want to treated as
if she were a man.

Obama also dismissed the GOP convention as empty of vision and specifics, and full of hagiography of McCain and criticism of him. "I've been called worse on the basketball court," the Democratic nominee said.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:37 PM

The Financial Times Deutschland writes:

"McCain's hubris and irresponsibility are by now blatant. Hubris -- because only a belief in his own immortality for the next four years could justify the choice of a vice president whose only experience, aside from two years as governor of Alaska, was as mayor of a suburb of Anchorage. Irresponsibility -- because US presidents run a high risk of being attacked, as exemplified by John F. Kennedy's assassination, but also by the attack on Ronald Reagan. That occurred on March 30, 1981, 69 days after Reagan took office, and almost cost the new president his life. Imagine what would happen if a President McCain were shot on the evening of March 30, 2009. The world would wake up the next morning to a President Palin, who in an interview about the Iraq war less than two years ago said: 'I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq.'"

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:37 PM

Since the present worldview is that O'Bomber will talk while McCain will act ( even tou are claiming this) O'Bomber will cause a nuclear war.

That makes no sense. You don't cause a nuclear war just by talking, but you certainly could by acting! If talks started war we would have no need of diplomats, the UN, and a few other things.

BTW, David Kirkpatrick, from the NYTs, was on Fresh Air on NPR this morning. He's written several articles about MCCain and was talking about his research and what he had learned.

One of the things he mentioned is that the moniker of "maverick" is relatively new...came about ten years ago. The fifteen years before that, when McCain was in Congress, someone else (sorry can't remember his name) was the one known as the "Maverick."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM

The past few comments, starting with mg at 3:35, especially the exchange with SRS, and the MSNBC quote from Amos, have added to the disconcerting feeling I have had this morning that McCain's choice of Palin may have been an act of (not-really-evil) genius, throwing the course of debate off into a whirlwind. Attacking a small town, tough, articulate woman of achievement for her family tribulations (which she overcomes, very visibly), and which are common to all people, or her religion, is the road to ruin. Attack her experience and you not only revive McCain's chosen subject, but you highlight the fact that she is the penultimate Washington outsider.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:31 PM

I am confused - are you saying that McCain, by bombing the shit (possibly with nuclear weapons)out of Iran, will prevent the Iranians from bombing the shit out of everybody else (possibly with nuclear weapons)?

But Obama will just allow Iran to...well, you know.

But either way we end up with a nuclear war...

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: irishenglish
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:25 PM

Its all speculation beardedbruce. You're jumping to step D when you're talking about us getting into a nuclear war with Iran, and thats the truth. There's a whole lot of other stuff that will happen before that. Wouldn't, for everybodies sake, you hope that step D never happened, no matter who is elected?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:18 PM

irishenglish

Talk to Bobert- I will refrain if he can stop it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:17 PM

Bobert,

"how Obama, with his policy of talkin' to folks, will get US into a nuclear war with Iran while McBluster and his sabre rattling won't, bb???"

Since BOTH of them have stated the SAME policy of keeping everything on the table ( including military force) but BOTH have stated they are trying diplomacy first,


By NOT taking any action O'Bomber will allow Iran to develop WMD. WHEN they use them, there will be a nuclear war.

If action is taken to stop that develoment, war MAY result, but it need not be nuclear.

Since the present worldview is that O'Bomber will talk while McCain will act ( even tou are claiming this) O'Bomber will cause a nuclear war.


You may not agree- but try to at least talk about the point, not how ugly someone is.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:16 PM

Palin is a DEALER ! http://usera.ImageCave.com/donuel/obamapoker.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:15 PM

She chose her words carefully Amos. She said "Obama/Biden Democrats" (as opposed, I guess, to the Clinton/CLinton Democrats she hopes to win over).

The rumors that her daughter actually gave birth to Trig (why name a kid after a horse?) started on hardcore Democratic blogs. Supposedly, this convinced her and McCain that she had to make her daughter's pregnancy public. The timing of this pregnancy makes it impossible that Trig is the daughter's child.

It is of course ridiculous. How long did she expect to keept he pregnancy secret without hiding her daughter from the public eye?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: irishenglish
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:15 PM

Here's a solution then-Bobert and beardedbruce, continue with each other your cutesy names for the four candidates amongst yourselves. I on the other hand, along with many others have resorted to no such tactics, so how about not using those names when addressing us?

Sound like a deal?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:14 PM

Ebbie-

Nice summary.

It is useful to do one's homework.

I do assume that the Democratic Presidential Primary campaign has tested Obama and his team adequately so that they can more than defend themselves against McCain and Palin. And I would expect them to do more than that, mobilize a frontal assault and take no prisoners.

Oh, by the way McCain retired from the Navy as a captain in 1981. It is an honorable rank but hardly one which would qualify him as a major military administrator; I was taught that generals or admirals do that kind of work.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:10 PM

Your pit bull Cinnamon is much smarter than YOU are.


You have demonstrated your intent by saying that I am name calling ( after I explained why) but say nothing about Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:10 PM

From NBC's Aram Roston [from Anchorage] ...The GOP candidate for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, may be facing yet another ethics investigation back in her home state of Alaska.

An ethics complaint obtained by NBC News was filed yesterday by the police officers' union in Alaska, requesting a probe into possible wrongdoing by the governor or her office. It was brought on behalf of state trooper, Mike Wooten, the ex-brother in law of Palin, who is at the center of the "Troopergate" scandal.

The complaint alleges that the governor or her staff may have have improperly disclosed information from Wooten's personnel records. The complaint alleges "criminal penalties may apply."

"It seems obvious to us somebody has improperly accessed [Wooten's] personnel file," John Cyr, director of the union that filed the complaint, told NBC News.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:03 PM

On the honesty in public statements front, she's faltering more than yesterday:

"From NBC's Mark Murray
This afternoon, the McCain campaign issued a Palin fundraising solicitation for the joint McCain-Palin-RNC fund. (After this week, McCain no longer can raise money after accepting $84.1 million in public funds, but the Republican National Committee and state parties can.)

"I cannot tell you how special last night was for me and how enthused I am to be John McCain's running mate," Palin said in the email solicitation, adding: "Unfortunately, as you've seen this week, the Obama/Biden Democrats have been vicious in their attacks directed toward me, my family and John McCain. The misinformation and flat-out lies must be corrected."

Unless we're mistaken, neither Obama nor Biden nor the campaign has attacked Palin's family. In fact, Obama said this after it was revealed that Palin's 17-year-old daughter is pregnant: "I have said before and I will repeat again: I think people's families are off limits, and people's children are especially off limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics, it has no relevance to governor Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. And so I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories."

Reached for comment about the charge, RNC spokesman Danny Diaz cited a comment Obama's Florida spokesman made noting (incorrectly, it seems) that Palin supported Pat Buchanan, whom Jews -- at least according to this spokesman -- have called a "Nazi sympathizer."

But Diaz didn't cite a single Obama or Biden charge against Palin's family.
..."

A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:00 PM

She demonstrated the best modern pit-bull techniques.

That is so demeaning to pit bulls. My pit bull Cinnamon is much smarter than Palin, and she says she'd never vote for McCain or Palin.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:57 PM

The Republican Party has shown NO merit for years. But then neither have the Democrats, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:54 PM

An interesting question is "Why not?". The apparent answer is "We've been contaminated by Texas." I dunno if that's the real answer though.

Looking back at Palin's speech, I think although it was well-done in terms of showmanship, it added no substance to the national dialogue, nor did it elevate the discussion. She glorified the role of the military and gave gilded boots to John McCain (despite his lack of executive experience). She demonstrated the best modern pit-bull techniques.

So now we've been introduced, and I am afraid (mostly because of her falsiofying her own track record) that despite the surface glitter of her performance, I am unimpressed, and do not believe she has anything to add to the merits of her party.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:50 PM

Perhaps you'd like to explain how Obama, with his policy of talkin' to folks, will get US into a nuclear war with Iran while McBluster and his sabre rattling won't, bb???

Even Colin Powell says that what Obama proposes is a more realistic approach to foriegn policy than the one we have and the one that McSabreRattler proposes...

So, please, bb, in your own words can you expalin why diplomacy will fail while sabre rattling will succeed, por favor...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:48 PM

"but you can start name calling. It's what I expect of you."

As I said ( since you didn't bother to read, obviously) as long as McBobert thinks it is suitable to make fun of McCain's name, I will use O'Bomber to show that I think O'Bomber ( from his statements) will get us into a nuclear war.

You are continuing to act as I expect you to.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:42 PM

Cover your eyes then, mg, it isn't going to go away. You're being too literal when you read these posts.

BB, I see that you've resorted to playground tactics, you can't dismiss an excellent candidate but you can start name calling. It's what I expect of you.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:39 PM

Would people want her as President?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:36 PM

While O'Bomber will back us into a nuclear war with Iran.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: mg
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:35 PM

Again, why is it necessary to bring the very private parts of someone into a conversation. It is probably safe to assume, but you can never be sure and does it really matter, that people will have more or less gender-specific organs. But they are called private for a reason. It is very very offensive to me, not out of prudishness as much as a sense of privacy, which is deemed a fundamental right in the U.S. To me it is just plain wrong to assault these privacy issues. It is OK to do it for Obama. It is OK to do it for HIllary. So soon it will be OK for creeps and lechers to discuss the private plumbing of your daughters, and your sons. It is public domain now. It is horrible. Trust me, as this disease spreads, it will be less and less safe for particuarly young and adolescent people if other people feel it is OK to talk in public, very public, about the genitals of strangers. Where are our boundaries? mg

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:34 PM

No!!! She'd get US into a proxy war with Russia but then again, so will McWar...

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:34 PM

just to show:


37,244,000 WATCHED PALIN SPEECH ...
[24,029,000 WATCHED BIDEN; 38,379,000 WATCHED OBAMA]

Excuse me- O'BOMBER

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:22 PM

The question that has to be answered: Would you want her as President? Because that's what may happen, and few people think that way at election time. Too bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:18 PM

Well, first of all, McUgly didn't get that name fir nuthin', bb...lol...

Butt (pun intended) lets get real here... If we're going to compare speeches, the one that McPalin gave last night, as compared to Biden's, was sarcastic, personal and divisive... One can criticise someone elses policy decisions without being rude... Plain might have made those in the crowd happy but she was illmannered and shows just why she is not the kind of person that one wants sitting across the table from Putin...

Actually, neither McHothead or Ms.McHothead have the tempermant to be president because neither of them were brought up to be civil...

Roller Derby would have been a great career chocie for Ms. McHothead...

Oh, and before anyone jumps on me for saying this or that about the Repubs let me remind you that I am, ahhhhhhhh, not runnig for anything...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:07 PM

I thought why not Hutchinson, too, SRS.

Ebbie, you missed when she joined the PTA and/or was a PTA officer.:-)