BS: Palin VP McCain choice

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:03 PM

Sounds like you're willing to listen to both sides in a reasonably fair way, jimmyt. That's rare.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:02 PM

Looking through her images, I found this. It has occurred to others as well.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:57 PM

Good article, Ebbie, thanks!

You know, if they wanted a qualified Republican woman who really does have some chops, they should have gotten Kay Bailey Hutchison, Senator from Texas. I don't care for her stance on a lot of things (same as Palin), she's a member of the NRA (same as Palin), her beauty has also been remarked upon (they called her the "Breck Girl" when she was running for Senator), and Hutchison is elegant. I don't think you can quite Palin of that.

In popular culture terms it's like Pamela Anderson vs Kathryn Hepburn.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: jimmyt
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:54 PM

I watched the speech last night, and I found her to be witty, intelligent, and generally a breath of fresh air to the campaign. I also noted that listening to most commentators on several networks, the consensus was that she hit a home run. Whether the commentator agreed with her politics, there seemed to be a general agreement that she delivered a great speech.

Maybe I was watching something different than most of this thread, but I thought it was superb. I also thought Ted Kennedy gave an inspired speech and Obama and his wife also delivered excellent speeches. I thought Fred Thompson gave a very excellent speech as well as Rudy Guliani. Of course, I was trying to be objective.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:43 PM

Well, McCain must have heard Bobert call him (McCain) "butt ugly"

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:37 PM

"1984: Palin wins "Miss Wasilla" pageant and places second in statewide beauty contest."

She'd have my vote then.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:30 PM

Her's a look comparing Obama's and Palin's careers:

http://www.startribune.com/nation/27823014.html?page=1&c=y

Supporters of Republican vice presidential pick Sarah Palin argue her experience tops that of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama. Here's a look at some major achievements in the lives of both:

1979: Obama a backbencher on high school basketball team that wins state championship

1982: Palin captain on high school basketball team that wins state championship

1983: Obama graduates from Columbia University. Works for a business research company, then becomes community organizer in poor section of Chicago.

1984: Palin wins "Miss Wasilla" pageant and places second in statewide beauty contest.

1987: Palin graduates from University of Idaho, works in television sports and family fishing business.

1988: Obama enters Harvard Law School.

1990: Obama becomes first black editor of prestigious Harvard Law Review.

1992: Obama runs Project Vote!, which registers 150,000 new voters in Chicago, then begins teaching law at University of Chicago.

1992: Palin wins city council seat in Wasilla, an Alaska town of about 5,500.

1993: Obama joins law firm specializing in civil rights cases.

1995: Obama publishes "Dreams from My Father," a well-reviewed memoir about growing up in America with an absent African father.

1996: Obama elected a state senator.
1996: Palin elected mayor of Wasilla.

2000: Obama defeated in effort to unseat U.S. Rep. Bobby Rush.

2002: Obama speaks out against invading Iraq.
2002: Palin loses Republican primary for Alaska lieutenant governor

2003: In biggest year of his legislative career, Obama passes legislation requiring police to record interrogations in murder cases, collect data on race of drivers they pull over.
2003: Palin appointed to Oil and Gas Conservation Commission.

2004: Obama delivers keynote address at Democratic convention, elected to U.S. Senate.
2004: Palin investigates conduct of a commission member, who ultimately resigns. She later files ethics complaint against state's Republican attorney general, who also resigns.

2006: Obama publishes "The Audacity of Hope," a book detailing his views on national affairs. Works with Senate Republicans to limit nuclear proliferation and shed light on wasteful government spending.
2006: Palin elected first female governor of Alaska.

2007: Obama launches presidential campaign.
2007: Palin overhauls state ethics laws, pushes to build a natural gas pipeline despite opposition from oil industry.

2008: Obama wins marathon Democratic primary against Hillary Rodham Clinton and raises record amounts of money
2008: Alaska legislators probe whether Palin improperly pressured officials to fire her sister's ex-husband, a state trooper. {Palin named VP Candidate in Republican presidential race} Addition mine, Eb


.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: irishenglish
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:29 PM

Now, you ask is there some reason I feel the need to attack McCain and Palin's policies rather than just being satisfied with supporting the policies of the ones they agree with? Um...yes there is. Its called politics. Discussion, discourse, whatever. Or as Monty Python said once, I can't argue with you unless I take up a contrary position. I know what you mean beardedbruce, you are talking about the more personal type of attacks. But in all fairness, the process itself has gotten more mean spirited, and non partisan pundits, and talk show hosts slinging more mud 24/7 on the airwaves and tv does little to make us sound like our founding fathers. I feel a lot of us have lost the notion of a spirited debate, and I'm not talking about mudcat. As a nation, too many of us rely on distorted information, and not enough on rational thought.We refuse to acknowledge hard evidence that should sway our opinion. We would rather hear everythings ok, than pull up your bootstraps, we're in for a long haul. Despite that however, the one thing I will not do is avoid arguing, discussing, attacking what I feel is a wrong, or a mistake. I'm going to guess I'm not going to make you change your mind bb, but I'll still try. All I can do is try. All you can do is try. I'm just not going to run to the high road when I want to be above it all, and the low road when I want to attack. I'll stay on the shoulder, thank you very much!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:28 PM

My initial question and above postings were in response to this from Doug:

It's interesting to me that so many women have been so anxious to see a woman elected to a responsible national position but when it becomes possible, that's really not what they want at all. They only want a LIBERAL woman to be elected to such a position. Is there a bit of hypocrisy there or what?

By that reckoning Doug, you would vote for Barack if he were the only MAN on any ticket?

Do you realise you are saying, in essence, "Oh, you silly women. We finally let one of yours in the club and now you don't want her?! Why, not, she's just like you...got tits and an arse."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:25 PM

irishenglish, I agree with your posting about how Biden will handle things.

DOug, it's no more of a stupid question than your assuming all women would want to vote for Palin just because she has a vagina, to be quite blunt about it. Talk about stupid, insulting, and sexist.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:21 PM

"What I have learned on this thread is that there's gonna be an election and someone will be elected. "

Well, the election part is correct.


No certainty that anyone will actually win, or that the other side will accept it, even if they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:16 PM

And there ya have it, folks. What I have learned on this thread is that there's gonna be an election and someone will be elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:10 PM

Yes, there is. I told Bobert that if he continued to use McXXXX in the manner that he has ( for any that have ideas he does not aprove of) I would use O'Bomber. Talk to him about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: irishenglish
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:06 PM

Is there some reason beardedbruce that you named 3 people by their proper name and resorted to a joke name for Barack Obama, the Democratic Party's nominee for President of the United States?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:59 PM

First of all, I find McBobert's and a number of other posts to reflect Democratic partisanship and taliking points.

There are comments that Palin's speech was negative- yet when Biden did the same, THAT was fine. I guess women aren't supposed to be uppity and actually criticise the opposition.

Now, let us look at the candidates- ALL of them are qualified to be preseident- US citizens, over 35, etc. We may have opinions as to whether they would be GOOD presidents, but that is why we vote- to get those WE AGREE with into office. O'Bomber would be a good president- except that in my opinion his policies ( as stated, AND based on what little he has supported) would not be the way I want the US to be going. Others disagree.

Joe Offer has been one of the few reasonable voices here- though I disagree with him on who would be best for the US as a whole. I doubt if Palin will pick up any "left coast" or "Northeast" liberals- ( which O'Bomber did)- but she WILL energize the conservative base to come out and support a candidate ( McCain) that had only their lukewarm ( ie, better of two bad choices) support. The attacks ( such as here and in the media) serve only to get MORE conservatives to become involved and vote.

I think that O'Bomber has shown himself to be a decent person ( re his comment of the families) but I do not see him having any more control over the liberal attack dogs than McCain has over the conservative ones.

Is there some reason that most here have to attack the opposition candidates personally, instead of just being satified with supporting the policies of the ones they agree with?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: irishenglish
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:56 PM

Moscow Idaho? Ah...of course...it all makes sense now. They weren't talking about her foreign policy experience because she is geographically near Russia, its because she was in Moscow! Of course! How silly of us all.







Kidding, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:55 PM

How opportunistic.

SO!!! She vuz edyerkated in MOSCOW, da??? Chust vat ve need in der Vight Hause!!



A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:51 PM

If you google the University of Idaho, you'll find it is in Moscow, which could prove troubling.

             The other thing is, when McCain first announced his choice of VP, nobody at the U-of-I could remember who she was (is?), but now they've got her pictured plastered all over their web-site, and are calling her "their native daughter."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:35 PM

Tartly? I don't think you're supposed to say "tartly."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:21 PM

"To question her readiness is not to doubt her talent or intelligence; nor is it a reflection of gender bias, snobbery or any of the other sins that have been ascribed to those who worry about Ms. Palin as vice president. Ms. Palin last night noted tartly "that if you're not a member in good standing of the Washington elite, then some in the media consider a candidate unqualified for that reason alone." It is a good applause line. But the fact is that Ms. Palin has an astonishingly thin résumé -- mayor of a small town, governor of a sparsely populated state for less than two years -- for someone hoping to ascend to national leadership. The country will need to hear much more from Ms. Palin before being convinced of the soundness of Mr. McCain's judgment.
" (WaPo)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:16 PM

Not to feaqr, Bruce... Palin will not turn out to be an assest for McCain but a major liability... Sure the repubs in that convention hall are parroting the company fight song... What choice do they really have??? They desperately want to hold power...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: irishenglish
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:16 PM

I just saw an article which mentioned that last night, may be considered the easy part. She was preaching to the choir of delegates in an auditorium. She now has to go out on the road, and have solid answers about issues that matter to the nation, not to Alaskans. Also, whatever one thinks of it, Wolf Blitzer made a good point last night when he said the Obama people by this point do have experience in dealing with a woman candidate. ( Before you criticize me, that's what he said) I think they know when they can jab, and when they can strike, which they will do. Also, any notion that Joe Biden is nervous about debating her is weak in my estimation. Biden will get up there and use his experience on the floor of the Senate and in commitees to show-this is what WE have done, this is what WE recommended, and so on. He will do it in a way that does not belittle or underestimate Sarah Palin, but he will come across as much more resolute, and succinct. I do not think this will be another Quayle/Bentsen moment either, although I'm sure that's what the pundits will be looking for. If you really think about it, Biden has a counter for just about anything Palin can throw at HIM. The key will be how well Biden can defend Obama. My feeling is, he's more than up for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:06 PM

Folks, in political campaigns, facts do not matter. What matters is voters' perceptions. Doug, my buddy with who I often trade barbs or outright have fights is getting some flak he really doesn't deserve. Besides, the day after the election I intend to message him and say

"Hey, Doug, the sky FELL!"

I still think Obama is gonna take it, but where before Palin I thought it would be by about 7%, now I think it'll be closer to 2 or 3%. Too close for comfort afaic.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:57 PM

Thanks, Eb...

But where did Palin come down on this??? Didn't she inherit most of this money??? Seems that seein' as budgets are for the coming fiscal year that those funds would have been spent under her governorship??? Am I wrong???

Yo, Doug,

If you have so much respect for the womenz then you'd turn away from McCain's choice which is a thinly disguised attemtp to corral Clinton's women supporters...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:53 PM

The choice of Palin is the only thing about McCain's campaign that worries me. Because now he has a chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:50 PM

I gather that because Alaska IS near Russia, Palin got some regular briefings on the status of Russian installations and would be expected to notify Washington if anyone in her administration noticed any unusual activity. She was simply kept 'in the loop' about a few issues, just in case Alaska 'might' need to do anything......

This hardly makes her **knowledgeable** about basic foreign affairs, much less about serious Russian issues!!! Joe Biden knows everything she does, plus a thousand times more about the rest of the world......and I expect he'll make that clear when they debate. *little smile*


and yes, Dani, I'll vote with you for Barry Finn.... Hey..maybe Barry can write speechs for Biden?


Seriously...what Barry says is sad, but pretty durn close to how it is. The Republicans are making 'displayed religious fervor' a campaign issue, and that OUGHT to be as off-limits as Palin's daughter's pregnancy.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: DougR
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:40 PM

Ebbie:WRONG! I have great respect for women. Even married TWO of them (not at the same time of course).

kat: I've never given much thought to whether or not our presidents had (or have) a penis. I assume that they did (do). Other wise they would probably be terribly stooped over from being unable to urinate. I do think it's a pretty dumb question though.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:38 PM

Bobert, Alaska got to keep the money because Senator Ted Stevens had a hissy fit saying that he'd quit in that event..

Never mind that a good many Alaskans applauded the sentiment but Frank Murkowski was governor then and the Repubs do stick together, doncha know.

"A freshman senator from Oklahoma, saying he was answering America's call to stop wasteful spending, tried Thursday to divert $452 million from two massive Alaska bridge projects and spend some of it on a hurricane-damaged bridge in New Orleans.

"Republican Sen. Tom Coburn's amendment to rescind federal money from the Knik and Gravina bridges won him the fury of Sen. Ted Stevens and only a smattering of votes.

"His attempt failed 82-15 after fist-pounding arguments from Stevens, R-Alaska.

"Stevens threatened to quit, to become a "wounded bull on the floor of this Senate," and he vowed that if his colleagues passed the bill, "I will be taken out of here on a stretcher."

"I will put the Senate on notice -- and I don't kid people -- if the Senate decides to discriminate against our state, to take money only from our state, I'll resign from this body," he said. "This is not the Senate I came to. This is not the Senate I've devoted 37 years to, if one senator can decide he'll take all the money from one state to solve a problem of another."

Here's a Link

Classy guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:26 PM

This is the part of the speech that offended me:

"To the families of special-needs children all across this country, I have a message: For years, you sought to make America a more welcoming place for your sons and daughters.I pledge to you that if we are elected, you will have a friend and advocate in the White House."

First off - someone tell her that she won't be living in the White House. She'll be living down the street and invited over for meetings and coffee.

Second - If she was an advocate for special needs children it would be something special indeed. Esp since she would be bucking the system created by the other 99.99 percent of her party. As Obama said - "You're on your own".

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:54 AM

Just one more comment on experience and then I will follow my own advice and leave it alone and that is...

...if you buy into the Rpub spin then of all the Presidental and Vice Presidential candidates, Plain is the best qualified to be president and if you extend that logic to all Republicans, which for argument sake we'll asy is roughly half the country then if you follow the Repub logic then Palin is better qualified than all the current batch of Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates plus roughly 150,000,000 other Americans???

I think that is the most rediculous spin that a poltical party has ever mustered up...

BTW, I'm still waiting for one of the Palin-ites to tell me why Alaska still got to keep the dough??? Is she on the Halliburton Board of Directors, or what???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:40 AM

CBS on the "KNowledge by Proximity" argument:

"...For those keeping score at home, the first person to make this argument was Fox News' Steve Doocy, who said, with a straight face, that Palin does know about international relations because she is right up there in Alaska right next door to Russia." Cindy McCain was second, telling George Stephanopoulos, in response to a question about national security experience, "[R]emember, Alaska is the closest part of our continent to Russia. It's not as if she doesn't understand what's at stake here."

U.S. News' Michael Barone was third, defending Palin's credentials by insisting, "Foreign policy experience? Well, Alaska is the only state with a border with Russia." Fourth was conservative writer Frank Gaffney, who said Palin has learned foreign policy "by osmosis," because of Alaska's physical location.

John McCain, then, is fifth. Remember, when Doocy first made the argument, it was so laughable on its face that Jon Stewart called him a "moron." Now, the Republican nominee for president is making the same pitch, hoping people are just stupid enough to believe it.

Palin has never been to Russia. She's never demonstrated any expertise on U.S. policy towards Russia. She doesn't have any background in international relations at any level. But for Republicans, the fact that she's lived in a state near Russia is somehow a qualification for national office.

It's the dumbest argument I've ever heard." (Steve Benen)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Acorn4
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:58 AM

Sorry, licky doesn't seem to want to work. Here is the article by Brian Reade in today's "Daily Mirror":-

Sarah Palin: She ticks every box in the "Neo-Con book" and then some
By Brian Reade 4/09/2008
Taking an interest in British politics may seem as pointless as giving a manic depressive a 10-year subscription to Suicide Monthly, but it could be worse.
Imagine if your mum or gran had swooned at a GI's offer of some nylons in the 40s and you were now watching your country's Presidential election on the TV over a box of Dunkin' Donuts propped on your 56in gut.
Imagine witnessing a people incapable of letting a politician start a sentence without thumping their left nipple and weeping, or end a sentence without shrieking like a boyband groupie who's just stood on a nail.
How could you take seriously big business pumping billions of dollars into the coffers of political puppets schooled to say nothing controversial, just words like "choice" and "change"?
It's bad enough watching Democrats con themselves into believing that if a black First Lady gets to choose the White House drapes the world will be turned on its head.
But the Republicans have truly exposed the American electoral system for the sham it is. Has a more frightening political photofit than Sarah Palin ever been manufactured by spin doctors?
She ticks every box in the Neo-Con book and then some. She could not be more of an evangelical right-winger if she banged her tambourine on a white hood.
Advertisement - article continues below »
She's a gun fanatic who is a lifetime member of the National Rifle Association. An abortion-hater, who has five kids. A God-fearing Christian who backs teaching creationism in schools. A hardnosed careerist who was so driven at school they called her Sarah Barracuda. An unflinching patriot whose soldier son Track (like siblings Trig, Bristol, Willow and Piper, given a dog name in best redneck tradition) may soon be fighting for Uncle Sam in Iraq.
The Miss Congeniality beauty pageant runner-up who married her high school Action Man and turned hockey mom is aimed at the hearts of all-American women. Not to mention the loins of all-American men, due to looking like a secretary strip-a-gram who, once the door's shut, will lose the glasses and straddle you.
The fact that she's done nothing but govern, for five minutes, a state with the same population as Bristol (that's the city, not her daughter) is irrelevant.
Her inexperience like her skeletons have been ignored because, sat next to the grey pensioner John McCain, they look like a Fox News anchor team. The sage and the eyecandy. Reassuring and homely.
And here, in a nutshell, is the pointlessness of the race for the White House. The nation's ruling party has teamed up a couple who had met only once before and who have little in common, apart from being anti-Commie and ProLife. And they are selling them as the best people to run the world for the next four years because they have the same age/gender balance as Trevor McDonald and Julie Etchingham.
Suddenly hearing Gordon Brown and Hazel Blears droning on about 30 per cent five-year loans for first-time buyers all seems quaintly reassuring.
McCain is the sage and she is the eye-candy

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Acorn4
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:53 AM

From Today's "Daily Mirror".

Sarah Palin: She ticks every box in the "Neo-Con book" and then some

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:52 AM

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform _ not even in the state senate."

THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.

Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state _ by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right _ change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington _ throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:50 AM

Yeah, this lady has lived for earmarks... They oughtta rename her "Earmarks Palin"...

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:46 AM

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere.

Remember too, that when she brags about AK having a surplus budget, she omits to mention how many millions of Federal dollars are part of that; the bridge earmarks went back into AK's general fund.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:40 AM

Not to over-emphasize the point, but why have none of the major media pointed out that she was lying to the public through her teeth during her acceptance speech?

In 2006 she said in a different sort of speech, "God bless" the state's congressional lobbyiong team for their success in bringing home such fine earmarks.

She supported the Bridge in 2006, too. The picture she painted in hat speech was just disingenuous fabrication.

Ptui.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:39 AM

First of all, I find GUEST from Sanity's posts to reflect GOP partisanship... Yeah, he or she tries to sound like an independent but seems more willing to take up the Repub talking points as if they are factual, which they are not...

Second, and this is a shocker:

Straight talk isn't what we are getting out of either McCain or McCalin when it comes to earmarks... Remember the "Bridge to Nowhere"??? Well, Palin pushed for it until it was apparent that the politics had turned against it...

Oh, the shocker, you might ask???

Well according to NPR this morning, Alaska still got to ******keep***** the entire $223M in federal dollars for the "Bridge to Nowhere"!!!! Yeah, we don't hear Palin apologiozing for bilking the US taxpayers out of $223,000,000.00!!!

She is a hypocrit and so is John McHypocrit for selecting another good 'ol boy with her hands so deep in my pockets that she should be ashamed to get up on heer soapbox and spew lies... They ougghtta hook up a poligraph meter to the microphone at the Repub Convention so that the casual observers would see for themselvers the outright lies that are being slung by these crooks...

Yes, that was ************$223,000,000.00***************!!!

Thieves...and worse...lieing thieves...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:38 AM

"Speaking before an audience that knew little about her or her state, Palin used the opportunity to spin some Alaska issues in ways that would likely be well received by Republicans elsewhere.

"I protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending," she said, claiming credit for nearly half a billion dollars in vetoes.
The audience loved it, but in reality Alaska has essentially no taxes to protect the people from. And in Palin's time as governor, spending and the budget shot up dramatically as oil money came gushing in.

"Republicans who love cutting government jobs cheered when Palin said she drove herself to work and laid off the Governor's Mansion chef.

"I thought I could muddle through without the governor's personal chef," she said, though her children didn't always like the idea.
Those in Juneau know another reason for the dismissal: Palin mostly lives in Wasilla, not the capital, and there's little for the chef to do.

Ebbie: The governor's "mansion" (Not. It is only a large, nice house) is less than four (4) blocks from where she works. She drives? Previous governors did not.   

"Palin also bragged about putting the state's jet - the controversial acquisition of former Gov. Frank Murkowski that likely played a large role in Palin's becoming governor - up for sale on eBay. She didn't mention that when it failed to sell, she sold it the way most such aircraft are sold - through a commissioned broker.

"Palin joins McCain in running as a Washington, D.C., outsider and reformer, based in party on her challenging a culture of corruption within her own party in Alaska. "We put the government of our state back on the side of the people," she said.

"While even Palin's ideological opponents in Alaska acknowledge Palin's strong ethical stands, Palin failed to mention that her ethics reforms were successful only after the revelation of a U.S. Department of Justice investigation that has sent numerous legislators, lobbyists and oil executives on their way to prison.

http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/090408/sta_328511816.shtml

Incidentally, the governor's laying off of household staff (not just the chef) has consequences. These are all state workers who work under procedural rules regarding hiring, firing and layoffs.

Traditionally the govenor holds an Open House during the Christmas season. Long lines snake down the sidewalk for several blocks and Governor's staff parade up and down the line delivering coffee and hot chocolate in the bitter cold.

Staff, traditionally, start baking cookies two months before the day making and freezing 24,000 cookies for the event.

Last year Governor Palin hired a private contractor, Larraine Derr, to make the cookies. It cost thousands. (Still cheaper than keeping people on staff, I grant you, but the ambiance is gone.)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:29 AM

And now we know why Rig isn't working on the Sunday morning news magazines--delusional doesn't go over well. McCain as centrist? No way. :-/

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:22 AM

Obama would be way out in left field, if it wasn't for religion--maybe it's something he picked up in a 12 step program, or something--but McCain is pretty centrist. Palin is far right.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:21 AM

I heard a lot of lies and nothing of substance. Notice how all the insiders claim to not be from the inside AND have tried to co-op the Dems call for "change" etc., etc.? They made it sound as if McCain never was in DC yet single-handedly brought about miraculous change and the past eight years have been WONDERFUL, but wait, not really because the Dems are in charge by 1-2 votes for the past couple of years.

Arrgghhh...she looks good, sounds good, and can present herself, but that was to the party loyals. When she gets out there and has to wing it against Biden, etc. I don't think she will be able to hold it together. If she weren't a social extremist, I might even like her and she does have good looking kids. Having been a pregnant teen I felt very sorry for her dau. and his boyfriend...it must seem a bit like a scarlet letter to have to stand up there for all the world to see. It reminds me of the shaming some churches would/do practice against kids who get in the "family way." I've seen it and it is ugly, hateful, and twisted.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:19 AM

DougR, do you vote for a man just because he has a penis?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:06 AM

The Republicans are throwing out labels as fast as they can, trying to find something that sticks with the portion of the American population who are registered to vote but who can't be troubled to actually learn anything about the facts of their candidates. Find a catchy slogan and they'll remember that at the ballot box.

This nonsense of "angry liberals" is one of those labels--trying to characterize the anger as an idiopathic aspect of the Democratic party, attempting to surgically remove it from the source--the ill-considered acts of Dubya in his presidency.

The experience question is never going to be resolved if you try to slap it on a scale and weigh it. The ability to think is what makes the difference. Qualitatively, Palin is a joke, and the disingenuous Miss Alaska speech last night doesn't make me feel secure, should McCain's melanoma come back and take him out. Do you want Palin to be the one to answer that call at 3am? I don't think so!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:56 AM

Left? You're suggesting that Obama or Biden are left?   Good grief.

Tricky thing for Biden in any debates with Palin is that, if he comes on heavy, he's a bullying swine and no gentleman. If he doesn't he's a patronising MCP.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:53 AM

Good morning, Ebbie
Being as you are an Alaskan, or at least live there...How was Palin, as governor?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:47 AM

From Googling 'Wasilla AK'

"According to the census bureau, the definitive source of US population figures, the last census tally, in 2000, revealed a population of 5,469. The bureau's 2007 population estimate, which I cited in my story, had the town at 9,780 residents. The difference between the two figures is huge, approximately 79% growth, but there is no disputing it's a small town, approximately one twentieth the size of Barack Obama's Illinois state senate district."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:43 AM

I think one of the problems we have in this election, is that the two supposedly different parties are running candidates that are both, too far to the right, or too far to the left..with nothing much in the center. Put that together with all the inexperience, and celebrity-like
hoopla, and we get the emotion packed nothing, that leaves most Americans frustrated and disappointed, and non Americans laughing at our buffoonery.
None the less, it was a great performance. Now can we get on with some patriotic American leadership???

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:07 AM

It seemed to me that you could tell the parts that were scripted and the parts that were her own material. I thought her own stuff was better, and that's what Biden has to look forward to in the VP debate. I suspect he's a little nervous.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:02 AM

This theme goes back to Daddy Bush and has been used effectively by both Jeb and George...

No, it goes back to the saintly 'Great Prestigitator', Ronnie Ray-Gun, the U.S.'s first senile chief executive since the last days of Woodrow Wilson.