Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?

Subject: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 10:05 AM

The PC recorders and software these days are so powerful, attached to a lap top with a quality mike and bam .. you have a professional recording. I have a friend who does bluegrass, Amazing CD and they are selling quite a lot. They recorded it at home in their living room with a notebook and some GNU free editing software. Made the CD covers themselves and stamped out their own CD's originally. Now they shipped them off to be duplicated due to time. So my question is this, why do we need to spend the dollars on a professional studio. One session will cost more than the hardware and software you need on your PC? I am not being cute here, just asking the question. My ear cannot tell the difference. I am not talking about what I do and that is plug a cheap mike into a PC. I am talking about the new firewire recorder and decent mikes. I swear I could not tell that my friends did their CD at home. It is perfect. What are your thoughts? Or tell me why my thinking is wrong?

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 10:28 AM

It's certainly possible to produce your own music - and video - by yourself. What you do have to have - and no amount of equipment will do it for you - is an ear for what sounds right and how to get the best from the instruments/vocals being recorded. Sound studio technique is an art, like anything else, and a good sound engineer can make the most of the raw material.

I do my own CD and DVD recordings - and sell them in small quantities - but I don't care for the quality of the stuff I first recorded (and didn't sell). It's taken many years of trial, error, experiment and practice to get to a point where I think what I do is half decent. Your friends sound as though they're quite clued up and can do a good job. Not all musicians can do the same - and that's where the sensitive sound engineer can help. Mind you, I've also known some crap sound engineers and producers...

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: greg stephens
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 10:39 AM

Now, I know absolutely nothing about sound stuff, but surely with one mic and a computer you can't record, and then edit,and overdub, a live band recording?You need lots of mics to get everything on different channels, don't you. One mic and a computer is fine for a solo bedroom performance, and adding layers and layers of overdubs,but you can't mix a band.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: john f weldon
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 10:52 AM

Why, indeed. At this point it's easy to set up a home studio that beats any pro studio of 1970. The only catch is that the pro studios of today have grown too. We used to mix films from 8-track to mono, and now you go from hundreds of tracks to 5, 6 or more of surround!

We used to spend half a day mixing a 10-minute cartoon, now it takes a week.

Bah, humbug! It's all Parkinson's Law, as far as I'm concerned.

The chief difficulties are soundproofing & sound baffling, and a good mike.   After that, your own skill and experience.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 10:58 AM

Right indeed, Greg - and that's why I don't use a mic and a computer. I use an 8-track digital recorder with mixer desk and other gizmos. What IS good about using a computer is the ability to burn the CD and DVD master - which wasn't possible cheaply until recently.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:03 AM

I agree. It is possible to to do it on my home computer with my current hard and software.

However, I live within half a mile of a major highway in a development with cars going by at unpredictable intervals, under a major flight path and with construction going on near by.

All of these noises would need to be removed for my work to sound professional on the final product. I suspect it would be cheaper to go into an anechoic chamber and do it right in the first place.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:20 PM

a good recording studio and engineer is the industry standard. Also there are the great producers - who wouldn't love to have an album recoded and mixed by Lenny Waronker.

About five hundred music legends can't be wrong.

i think also - it has to be said - early albums like Frost and Fire done in someones kitchen on a revox - its all very well. But a good studio might have got it better.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: john f weldon
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:24 PM

EB-
By a strange coincidence someone started breaking up pavement with a pneumatic drill outside my window just as I read this post, so point taken.

A friend who is a pro built himself a fairly soundproof one-man booth that sits on rubber tires and can be rolled around the studio; a "floating" studio as they call it. A bit of a job, though.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Acorn4
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:37 PM

Lately I've been going over to the idea of doing the recording and mixing at home, meaning that I can do as many takes as I want, and getting the final mastering professionally done -a second pair of ears and a bit of polish in the latter stages!

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: john f weldon
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:49 PM

I freely admit that as a musician I suck. So every track is cut together from about 8 takes. The software makes it easy. And it sure is fun.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Nick
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:52 PM

I think there was another thread with some comments by Tom Bliss on Mudcat which was a sort of half house between the benefits of the ears and ability of an outside producer/engineer and the ability to record some tracks at home and then add them to the professional mix in the studio which seemed sensible

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Simon G
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 01:01 PM

Quote from Tom Bliss's newsletter which arrived in my inbox as I read this thread

"I spent most of August recording in a tent made of duvets and matresses in the bunk room of my house in Alderney - and it's worked a treat, I might add. This still left time for plenty of swimming, sailing, walking and other adventures."

Now that is the way to record. First off you need to acquire a house in Alderney (very small UK island off the coast of France) or maybe we just pick the right week and squat at Tom's place whilst he is away.

Obviously worked as Tom says "This really is my best album yet"

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 01:05 PM

You don't. There is no requirement to record. However, if you want to preserve something, you need a studio.

"At this point it's easy to set up a home studio that beats any pro studio of 1970. "

Which is probably why I receive a number of CD's that sound as if they were recorded in 1970 and sounds awful to the modern ear.

You CAN make wonderful recordings in a home studio. IF you do it right and are prepared to spend some money. A studio does not come off the shelf. Mark Dann built a home studio that was a center for recording of the Fast Folk crowd in the 1980's and 1990's. A number of similar studios were built as combination hobby/professional endeavour.

Too often, people are mislead to feel that all they have to do is plug in a microphone to a computer and they can sell 50,000 CD's with the results.

You also need an engineer that understands audio - more than what the average person hears.

Olddude described a sitution that APPEARS to be a studio setup the right way in a home. While it might sound good to Olddude's ears (without testing Olddude), there might be issues that make the final output less than desirable.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: john f weldon
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 01:12 PM

Jeez, many of my favourite recordings were made at Folkways studios with a single mike! Is this a folk music blog or the Philharmonic?

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Timo_Tuokkola
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 01:46 PM

I completely agree. If you have a decent space to record in (i.e. very little outside noise), and spend the money on half decent equipment, there is really no need to use an expensive studio to record a cd anymore. One thing I have found to be a pain though is trying to adjust the gain when I'm recording myself (that old inability to be in two places at once. Someday somebody will fix that...)

For mastering however it is probably worthwhile to use a professional mastering studio. They tend to have a lot of very expensive gear that isn't worth buying for a home studio, as well as extensive experience which allows them to give the recording the best final polish possible.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: john f weldon
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 01:57 PM

Timo-
A cordless mouse and a good set of middle-distance spectacles to see the screen.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:05 PM

"Jeez, many of my favourite recordings were made at Folkways studios with a single mike! Is this a folk music blog or the Philharmonic?"

It depends on what you are listening for. I too have many favorite recordings from Folkways - as well as field recordings - but we listen with a different set of criteria.   Moses Asch also recorded in a different age and the sonic differences were less perceptible.

With technology advances, the acceptance of poor quality recordings is more evident. A scratchy Woody Guthrie recording, true gems to people over the age of 50, are harder for most people under the age of 50 to listen to for great lengths. Sure, there are scholars and devoted fans where content means more than quality, but that is not the case for most people.

I remember hearing a story of a group of performers at a benefit. Pete Seeger was among the performers. A young woman was havning trouble tuning her guitar and she said "close enough for folk".   Pete shook his head diapprovingly.   IF you care enough enough about the music, you will take the care to present it in the best possible light. If you accept flaws that can easily be overcome, you are just giving a half hearted effort.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: john f weldon
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:35 PM

As to extreme old age (63) I plead guilty! So how come my 29-yr old son loves Skip James, 60's Leonard Cohen, and Bernard Wrigley's earliest recordings? And no, he didn't get it from me, they were all independent discoveries.

Saint Pete was probably shaking his head at the tired old joke. I've got some recording of his, where... ...ah, heck, don't get me knocking one of my heroes.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:01 PM

I think this is a great thread. One thing I would consider though is what folks mean by 'recording studio'.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Acorn4
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:05 PM

I remember sometime in the late seventies, when music systems took a great leap forward, a teacher colleague of mine went out and bought recordings of engine locomotives so that he could show off his stereo system to its greatest advantage.

I think where n music is concerneed, if it's good enough it will overcome a few shortcomings in recording quality!

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: john f weldon
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:09 PM

Hi Peace! I was about to drop out, it was starting to sound theological!
Also my "recording studio" is hitting about 36 degrees C., which, along with the roadwork outside is gonna drive me looney!

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Cool Beans
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:10 PM

I do my recording in a studio. One of the first things I noticed there was that I didn't hear the heat going on (in winter). In my house the furnace is most audible, as is the air conditioning. So unless I buy a whole bunch of good computer equipment, pay for a course in how to use the stuff and record only in October I'm better off in the studio every five years.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:22 PM

"So how come my 29-yr old son loves Skip James, 60's Leonard Cohen, and Bernard Wrigley's earliest recordings? "

Your son has good taste! People with good ears can hear beyond the pops and scratches and realize what constitutes an outstanding performance.   If the majority of people could appreciate music that way, I think our entertainment industry would be in different shape.

Tell the truth - if you had an opportunity to put Woody Guthrie into a modern studio with equipment that could capture more of the nuances, wouldn't you?    I cherish the Asch recordings, as do most folkies, but times change.

I record and edit many of my radio programs in my den. I use a freeware editing program called Audacity, a Shure mic and a Marantz recorder, and a HP PC. On a shoestring, I've been able to put together a "studio"(which seems high falutin to call it that) and I have produced material that has aired on satellite radio as well as other non-com stations like WFDU. I'm proud of the quality I have created, and I am thankful that I have had some good advice and a bit of knowledge from the pros to help me.

I've heard some exceptional recordings made in similar setups, and I've heard some awful recordings made in professional studios.   It comes down to talent, budget and expected use.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:37 PM

I've participated in recording sessions done in a living room live to 2 track analogue tape, or to DAT. I've also done sessions in studios. We've released a lot of it on CD. The sound quality is good, I'd stand by any of the performances. The key to all this was someone else tweaking the knobs, so that we could play. I bought a home multi-track unit a couple years back. It was easy to use, but it mostly collects dust at the house. I figured I didn't have a patience to try playing something with the mic in one position, than play it again with the mic moved two inches further, or closer, to figure out where the best placement was. I've met some people who already figured that out. Like Ron, I've heard some self-recorded things that sound great. But that's not a skill I have currently. I wouldn't tell anyone they were wrong for taking the home recording approach, but you do have to make sure the sound quality is good. I can handle ragged but right, but don't have a whole lot of patience with ragged but ragged.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: bankley
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:42 PM

"if it sounds good, ,,,,it is good"   Duke Ellington

depends on what your personal standards are..... I have a KorgPXR4 that I call the 'ham sandwich' cuz that's how big it is... 4 faders, 32 virtual trax, digital, FX for days, great editing, USB port... sounds fine...I can do a lot with it and have....

but I use it in conjunction with bigger studio(s)... for better, isolation, separation, 'headroom', EQ.. all of that... and it's nice to work with a good engineer, in an pro-environment set-up esp. if you're the performer... there's also a huge difference in a $200 mic and a Telefunken U47 tube mic... and not just the $7800 difference...

go with whatever works, but as Ron Olesko said...there are 1000s of new releases every week... so it's important to make it sound the very best you can, if you're intending to market the final 'product'

If you're just fooling around, experimenting, having fun... then who cares ?

I took a photo of the wee Korg 'studio' sitting like a flea on a 24 Track ,2 inch tape Studer.... sure the Studer has a great 'warm' sound... but at 750 lbs.. it's difficult to slip into my back pocket

so use it all, if you have the chance... try different things.. find out what works best for you... they don't call it the Recording Arts for nothing....

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:48 PM

It sounds to me through the discussion then, perhaps the best and most cost effective means would be to work it up at home, get it to where you think it is very good, then have it mastered and tweeked at a professional studio. You would then have the best you can without the endless hourly studio charges. Am I wrong in my thinking? There are so many good songwriters that just don't have the money for the hourly studio charge. Wouldn't this approach be the best perhaps or are their drawbacks to it

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: john f weldon
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:50 PM

Ron- Sounds like we don't disagree on as much as I thought. I've run the gamut from hi-end to low-est. Hi means they ripped out all the theatrical recording and mixing studios at the NFB in the nineties and rebuilt them from scratch. Huge "floating" theaters for theatrical surround mixing. Low, strangely doesn't even mean home; I think a small "professional" studio with a noisy fridge and a whiney dog was the winner there.

I, however, believe that it is possible to do pro-level home recording these days. (My own are NOT an ideal example, I'm far too lazy for that.)

Little things make a big difference! Getting rid of two metal filing cabinets in my "Studio" (otherwise known as "the attic") improved the sound greatly.
Cripes,it's hot up here...
...gotta take a break!~

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:00 PM

I think not. What's most important imo is the initial take. GIGO.

If the initial recording is done on a poor quality microphone, then all the tweeking on earth won't improve it much--unless you don't mind spending days on the mix.

There are basically three parts to a project.

1) Recording

2) Mixing

3) Mastering


If you record with a good set of microphones, then you're assured of basic clarity and sound. Mixing will take the various tracks (let's say there are four) and get them balanced in relation to each other.

Bring up the voice, drop the rhythm guitar, increase the lead guitar and give som spazz to the mandolin. (I opted for some reverb on two songs and liked the effect. However, a full CD worth of reverb would be a drag.

Mastering is the process where all the finished takes are set so that they are the same loudness. Say ya play cut one and it is comfortable to listen to at 6/10 on your sound system. Then cut two comes on and your system is still set to 6/10. And BLOOOOOOOOOOM, you get knocked outta yer chair because it's way too loud. Mastering makes all the tracks play well at 6/10 (or seven or . . .).

If you don't have something good to begin with, all the mixing and mastering in the world ain't gonna help it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:05 PM

Also, there's a difference between duplication and replication. But that's at the production end and beyond the scope of this thread.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:11 PM

Bruce

I see your point, just trying to understand how it all works
thank you

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: bankley
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:25 PM

Old Dude, it's good to be curious... it wasn't that long ago, that people didn't have the kind of freedom of choice that's available today... and you're right about pre-production... you can work out most of the ideas at home on the cheap, and either take some trax to a bigger facility to be transferred, or start from scratch, but at least being well-prepared...

I remember some sessions for the 2nd Ville Emard LP... we'd walk in the control room, get handed a hunk of hash, get set up and 'prepared' and just jam ...see what happens... the record turned out great, just 'smokin' , you might say, sold quite a bit too... but I'm glad I wasn't producing..

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:33 PM

Thanks Ron
I never understood the process. I appreciate the information. I won't ever be doing a CD except something I hack out for my kids at home, but I didn't understand how the real process works

dan

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM

Ron's nailed it in one, I think.

That first paragraph.

I personally have never smoked illegal substances and never would.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: bankley
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:39 PM

yeah, you and the Marley boys, I'm sure...

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:44 PM

"I, however, believe that it is possible to do pro-level home recording these days."

Absolutely! It all depends on what you are willing to put into it and the knowledge you can rely on.

There is something to be said for a reliable engineer who has done it professionally. They know the nuances as well as fixes and tweaks that the hobbyist may not have come in contact with. It is the same with any job. I can do a decent job of painting the bathroom, but I know a pro can do it faster and it will look better. Still, we do what we enjoy.

"I won't ever be doing a CD except something I hack out for my kids at home, but I didn't understand how the real process works"
For that, you will succeed. Your kids will enjoy hearing your voice and songs and the love for you will fill in any sonic imperfections. Not every recording needs to hit Amazon.com.

At the same time, if you do wish to attempt some degree of commercial success, consider where you spend your money and what you will get out of it. You can pay $1000 to get some decent equipment at home, or you can find a decent recording studio that can provide a superior product without the hassles of setting up on your own. It is an individual call, but please do not expect to walk into Staples and buy a pieceo of software and a $20 mic and come up with a pristine sounding recording that everyone will rush to buy.

As Peace mentioned - you need to have something good going in.   (And Peace recorded an exceptional CD!!!)

Best advice - be prepared - remember, you can't polish a turd!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: oggie
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:54 PM

One, because of the sound proofing.

Two, because of the experience of the engineer who can set up the right mike at the right distance etc etc

Three, because the learning curve on decent software is hellish steep and how mant hours are you going to spend learning to do what a pro can do in minutes?

"remember, you can't polish a turd!!!"

But you can roll it in glitter if you have enough time to spend!

Steve

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 05:04 PM

(Thank you, Ron.)

Ron Olesko has just said something that's very important to the process: the thing about a reliable engineer. They will know what mistakes can be corrected. Some can and some can't.

Rule one (well, a rule anyway) in studio--with recording--is NEVER throw anything away. Another thing to keep in mind is that you best record stuff in key. That is, A440 or something relative, because if you decide to put a keyboard guy/gal in there and they are overdubbing, well, if you are 1/4 tone out, the twains will never meet.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 05:14 PM

Hi Kids: I'm pretty much in agreement with bankley, Ron and Peace on this one. Get the best that you can afford. It seems to me that if your focus is on music, then the helping hand of a great engineer/big studio can work wonders...I know a guy they call "Ears" because he can pick out the slightest detail in a recording. There was a guy in film whose name I can't recall at the moment, but he could watch a film and stop the camera guy, and tell him "there was a hand in one of the frames" STOP rolling... Sure enough, there it was. I think I got that story from Jack Nissenson.

Personally, I like to experiment, and spent a LOT of time, and money on my set-up. I didn't want to chew up cash in a large studio and spend major bucks per hour, since what I had was basically IDEAS that had to be produced. And I have been through the deal where you are trying to relate your concept of the final product to musicians WHO JUST DON'T GET IT! One size does NOT fit all...I don't want to hear your version of Clapton, I want you to LISTEN. If you are CAREFUL, you can put together an amazing rig...Do you want to work IN the computer or OUTSIDE of it? Got drummers, vocalists, etc. you might want to go with Pro Tools...Since I am basically a one-man operation I went with multiple DAW's for learning and experimentation...GarageBand(Respect. If you have tamed this puppy, you know what I'm talking about), Logic Express, aka Logic 8(read the manuals and get back to me, serious WOW with this one guys; check out SFLogic Ninja on YouTube/Pyramind Recording School, San Francisco), Cubase, and REASON.

Main Mic? Audio-Technica AT-2020 and a bunch of others...

Got to mention Spectrasonics Stylus RMX MWAH HA HA HA, just because I FEEL like it...

My soundcard is 24bit/96K Firewire...Yes, there will be a difference between the big guys and me, but not to the point where the listener will say, "Hey, what's that, it wasn't recorded in a million dollar studio..."

If you strike a balance between all the factors involved, you can come up with some fine MUSIC..

Then you have to get it to the people...A whole other Art in itself...
bob/West Island Recording

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 05:15 PM

"But you can roll it in glitter if you have enough time to spend!"

It will still stink

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: bankley
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 05:24 PM

now there's a band name..   "Laminated Turds"....

we stink but you might not notice...

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: treewind
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 05:27 PM

Of course you can make a recording at home with equipment that is now incredibly cheap where the equivalent would have cost thousands a few years ago, but there's still a lot of skill to making a really good recording, and much of is is skill you aren't even aware of until you try it, start learning and find that the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know.

As with other walks of life - buying a high performance car doesn't make you a good driver, buying a Steinway doesn't make you a concert pianist, installing a DTP package doesn't make you a graphic designer.

A good sound engineer can also make a good recording with cheap gear. Whatever you've got, it's about making the best of what you have available (and that applies to the "talent" behind the mic as well!)

A good professional sound engineer can have incredibly accurate ears. Some mastering engineers can listen to a mixdown and correctly guess what brand of monitoring speakers were used for mixing. You can't fake that level of skill with fancy digital equipment, and somebody with that experience could identify a recording made in someone's untreated home room instantly. There'll be some CD purchasers out there who can tell the difference too, even if they can't be sure exactly what's wrong or why one recording sound better than another.

Incidentally, sound treatment to make a good room is often the last thing an amateur recordist wants to spend money on, but it's often what's needed most. Anechoic isn't best, but the right amount of reverb and equally at all frequencies, which is really hard to do.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 05:32 PM

Hey, what ever happened to Florian Munday and the Mondos with their Monster hit..."You gotta be Mondo?"

Never heard of them? They was BIG for a very short time way back when..."You gotta be Mondo from your head to your feet..."

See kids, at one time, you were either Mondo(Greaser type) or Colleege(Clean-cut College boy) YA HAD TO BE THERE! O.K.?!

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 06:37 PM

Was in a studio once where the echo chamber was the stair well. Eight flights of cement. Talk talk about about yer yer echo echo!

Some damned good advice on this thread.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: JedMarum
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 06:57 PM

Why do we need symphony halls? My daughter plays the violin really well and we had the neighbors in just last week while she played a concert for us in the living room.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: JedMarum
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 07:10 PM

Ron is right on.

Some people can make good records in their living room. Most cannot. It ain't the space so much as it is the gear and the expertise - and that's NOT just engineering expertise; it is managing the project. If the price of a Stradivarius came down to the point where I could buy one, it wouldn't make me Itzach Perlman.

Record engineering and record producing are two distinct sets of skills (of course some people have both) but they are at least one third of the value of any recording.

Good performances can be captured poorly and the listener may still enjoy the music - but if you want to make a record that will have real value and will preserve the quality of the performance, your engineer, your recording space and gear (studio) and your producer (even if that's you) all must be as good or better then the performer.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 07:25 PM

Couldn't agree more, Jed.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: JedMarum
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 07:30 PM

Gear?

Mics - are extremely important. The right mic for the right job.
Mic placement is extremely important. How many mics, what does the room sound like? What else does the mic hear? Is that OK?
Pre-amps and other electronic gear are extremely important. What are the setting you use for the pre-amps? What about compression, or limiters? How do you adjust their settings?
Mix? What about EQ for the instruments? How do you carve out the frequency range where each of the instruments "live" within the mix and can blend with one another without "muddying" the sound or detracting from another instrument?
What is the proper reverb to use or other treatment to be used and how they adjusted for each track?
How do we fix various errors - such as groove or beat errors? pitch errors? vocals errors etc???

There are so many many little factors that make a great performance become a great recording that you cannot learn them in your living, working only on your own music in a short period of time. No matter how good the gear is, how cheap it has become and how much of a "knack" you have for this sort of thing. It takes years to get good at this. Lots of them and lots of hard work - just like learning play music in the first place.

I'm a pretty good guitar player, but I wouldn't dream of taking a pro gig as a bass player next week. I know enough to know that I don't know enough to do the job well.

I've worked on a number of recordings. I could probably "produce" a small and simple project on my own - but I'm a musician. I want my recording to be as good as it can be. I want a pro working the engineering and the producer roles when I make a recording.

Mark Twain said the difference between right word and almost the right word is like the difference between lightning and lightning bug! I think the difference between what most of us can do at home and what we can do in the studio is along the lines of Mark Twain's comment.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 07:39 PM

A good producer and good engineer can provide that which the adage says:

Aye that he'd the pow'r to gie us
To hear ourselves as others hear us

with apologies to Mr Burns. It involves a great deal of trust on the performer's part.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 09:38 PM

JOE MEEK...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxdTq67MRdE&feature=related

For me, the studio is THE instrument...
bob

Subject: RE: Tech: Why do we need Recording Studios?
From: 4themax.com
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 10:30 PM

Someone on the mudchat strongly suggested that I weigh in on this matter.

I am the Borderline Folk Music Club's webmaster and media person.
http://www.borderlinefolkmusic.4themax.com

I have 20+ years of experience in professional video.audio.photo.web

With Borderline, I am offering the: "Maximize yourself" CIYH.
http://concertsinyourhome.com/host_result.html?uid=akent

My website is http://www.4themax.com


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This is an old issue since the Dawn of Time - either DIY ("Do it yourself") vs. hire a professional. The saying goes, "You get what you pay for."

So should you run down to Radio Shack or Guitar Center, and now you can DIY, or should you use a RECORDING studio?

Sure, you can make a recording in your LIVING room. But will it be a QUALITY recording? Similarly, you could have your Uncle Joe video your daughter's wedding. Pass out some of some of those disposable cameras on each table, and you'll save money on the photographer. Oh yeah! You could get the guys to do some BBQ instead of the caterer, buy some flowers at the local grocery, etc.

If it was so easy, why are there recording studios to begin with? And what exactly is a RECORDING studio? and should MUSICIANS do their own recording just like they might do their own publicity, accounting, managment, booking, tuning, etc. or should they do what they do BEST, music?

What do RECORDING studios have that LIVING rooms don't? Not only do the walls have acoustic treatment (no don't save you egg cartons instead and O.D. on cholesterol!), they are built of acoustically-engineered materials, acoustically dimensioned rooms (think of blowing into pop bottle and resonating), electrically isolated/filtered circuits (fluorescent and halogen lights induce a nasty hum), but they also have PROFESSIONAL quality equipment and PROFESSIONALLY-knowledgeable and trained audio engineers who know how to use them? What's the difference between a $3000 Neumann U87 tube mic and a $50 on sale mic you got at Radio Shack?

And equipment manufacturers, music stores, etc. are in the BUSINESS of selling equipment so THEY can make money on you DIYers.

Even if you could buy some quality recording gear. You could get away with recording keyboards or other line level musical or MIDI instruments. But what do you do about vocals and acoustic instruments? How do you isolate the noise of the recording gear from being recording and listen to it {monitors, oh - I need a control room)while it's being recorded?

There are so many issues which why there are architects, schools, etc. for recording PROFESSIONALS using PROFESSIONAL gear and PROFESSIONAL recording environments.

If home-recorded music is good enough for your target audience, that's all right. But if you want to make a PROFESSIONAL QUALITY recording then use PROFESSIONALS instead of DIY.

And when it comes to your daughter's wedding, forget the Uncle Joe video that'll look like it was shot on the sinking Titanic - hire a professional also. Unless you don't care. It was good enough for Steve Martin in "Meet the Parents" to fantasize about the backyard BBQ instead of Frank the caterer/wedding planner!

Thank you.