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BS: Remember 9/11

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GUEST,Dani 11 Sep 08 - 11:01 AM
katlaughing 11 Sep 08 - 11:08 AM
Donuel 11 Sep 08 - 11:24 AM
Donuel 11 Sep 08 - 11:33 AM
Bee 11 Sep 08 - 11:40 AM
katlaughing 11 Sep 08 - 11:42 AM
katlaughing 11 Sep 08 - 11:55 AM
PoppaGator 11 Sep 08 - 12:01 PM
C. Ham 11 Sep 08 - 12:16 PM
katlaughing 11 Sep 08 - 12:18 PM
maire-aine 11 Sep 08 - 12:31 PM
gnu 11 Sep 08 - 02:13 PM
katlaughing 11 Sep 08 - 02:15 PM
Donuel 11 Sep 08 - 03:06 PM
Pseudolus 12 Sep 08 - 10:30 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 26 Mar 11 - 01:41 PM
Little Hawk 26 Mar 11 - 01:41 PM
Bill D 26 Mar 11 - 01:44 PM
Wesley S 26 Mar 11 - 01:48 PM
Wesley S 26 Mar 11 - 02:00 PM
Bill D 26 Mar 11 - 02:16 PM
Skivee 26 Mar 11 - 02:25 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 26 Mar 11 - 02:40 PM
Wesley S 26 Mar 11 - 02:51 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 26 Mar 11 - 02:55 PM
Wesley S 26 Mar 11 - 03:04 PM
michaelr 26 Mar 11 - 03:40 PM
Bill D 26 Mar 11 - 04:28 PM
Wesley S 26 Mar 11 - 04:45 PM
VirginiaTam 26 Mar 11 - 04:45 PM
Greg F. 26 Mar 11 - 04:52 PM
gnu 26 Mar 11 - 04:56 PM
Don Firth 26 Mar 11 - 05:33 PM
Bill D 26 Mar 11 - 05:38 PM
MGM·Lion 26 Mar 11 - 06:20 PM
Bill D 26 Mar 11 - 06:31 PM
Greg F. 26 Mar 11 - 06:48 PM
Don Firth 26 Mar 11 - 07:08 PM
GUEST,Skivee 26 Mar 11 - 08:46 PM
MGM·Lion 27 Mar 11 - 12:31 AM
Joe Offer 27 Mar 11 - 01:00 AM
GUEST,999 27 Mar 11 - 01:18 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 Mar 11 - 04:22 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 Mar 11 - 04:52 AM
VirginiaTam 27 Mar 11 - 06:57 AM
andrew e 27 Mar 11 - 08:50 AM
Wesley S 27 Mar 11 - 09:34 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 Mar 11 - 09:50 AM
GUEST,999 27 Mar 11 - 09:56 AM
Skivee 27 Mar 11 - 10:35 AM

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Subject: BS: Rmember 9/11
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:01 AM

I'm fortunate to be home today, and able to watch the ceremonies remembering.

Checking in when I can to the live feed of the reading of the names @ WTC.

Most moving to me is the students reading, representing their countries, each of whom also lost people: 95 of them. 95! I just saw the young man from Pakistan reading names.

Going back over the original thread, and thinking about that horrible day, it is still so confusing and frightening. What a complicated world we live in.

Dani


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Subject: RE: BS: Rmember 9/11
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:08 AM

Video footage available on MSNBC. Hard to stop the tears all over again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:24 AM

my column:

The War on Terror & the Destruction of Evil

A Jesuit teacher once told me that if your life or projects are without a strategy, you are merely a sailboat without a keel or rudder at the mercy of the wind and currents. Here we are 7 years later on the anniversery of 9-11 and at war longer than our campaign in WW 2, without one overall cohesive strategy. We have in fact completely ignored the clearly stated direct threats and strategy of our enemy.

What did our enemy say? Ossama bin Laden said as recently as 2004 that the United States would be defeated by driving them into bankruptcy. That is a single minded goal and focused strategy for victory. The rest of his rhetoric such as "the winds of Allah shall sweep our enemy from the land" is similar to our White House empty comments about victory.

If only someone in the US goverment had read Shakespeare or The Art of War we would have not merely vanquished our enemies but we could have brought them into the fold of the empire without fear, torture and killing.

We would have kept an eye on our treasury and financial Corporations, leaders and systems as the true target of enemy's invasion. We would have defended our stronghold.
We left it wide open to attack from within. The people and institutions that have attacked the United Staes and fullfilled Ossama bin Laden's strategy of bankrupting America are:
JP Morgan, Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Maning Credt Associations charging 30% interest, Lehman Bros., Billionaire Hedge Funds and the Corrupt to the core Mortgage Companies that invented the sub prime mortgage that later got bundle and sold in the the single biggest global swindle in history.

Yes the enemy was partly us. The leaders were lost in their head full of profitable dreams of Iraq oil fields. Their surge was the most far thinking strategy they could think of.
The new good of more bank bail outs, more coal, more big oil, more nuclear energy/weapons and more tax cuts for the rich will all insure more victory for Ossama bin Laden.

Who do we destroy to defeat this evil?

Who sold it out?
Who were the terrorists?
Who profited from war more than victory?
WHo could not see the forest for the trees?
Who will continue to be the traitor to our cause?
When the target was our economy, who pretended to protect it?

The whims of the ruling class has gotton us to this point and we need to take it back.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:33 AM

And why are these questions never asked in this election campaign that is being called historic?


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bee
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:40 AM

My deepest condolences to all who lost family and friends in that terrible event.

I hear a jet plane flying over my house at this very moment, and I remember those days when the skies were utterly empty of human presence. At the time I was in a campground, for a month while my husband worked in a nearby town, and had just turned on our little staticy television to watch the weather. I tuned in just in time to see the second plane hit.

Later that week, I met a vacationing couple from Iowa. They were a gentle couple, with no thoughts of revenge or hate, just stunned by the enormity of what had happened. They already knew who they had lost and who was okay, fortunately for them no one really close. I can't forget, though, the lost looks on their faces as they accepted my expression of condolences, nor can I forget their friendliness. Today, I am thinking of them and all of our neighbours south of the border.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:42 AM

Donuel, that is a powerful piece and you have my respect and agreement, but I wish this could be a thread of memory without bringing the politics in...even the candidates for president have stopped their ads for the day.

The live coverage is powerful I just wish they didn't have the strings playing...it doesn't fit...maybe a different repertoire would have been better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:55 AM

Beautiful choir singing right now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 12:01 PM

I had ESPN SportsCenter on the TV while waking up this morning, instead of the usual Today show. Not on purpose ~ I wasn't thinking about the date, I just wanted to see highlights of the Mets' victory.

So, I've missed the network-news coverage of the annniversary, so far. I'm sure there'll be plenty more on the tube this evening.

Of course, it was a sad event, well worth memorializing. I'm perhaps extra-aware because I grew up in New Jersey, home to more World Trade Center victims than any other state or nation, even New York, and three graduates of my high school were among the dead.

So, I understand the sentiment behind a desire to keep politics out of it, at least for this one day. However, on the other hand, that event on that day was the beginning of, and the excuse for, so very much evil and wrongheaded governmental activity in the months and years ever since that I con't help but feel even more political outrage today than yesterday...


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: C. Ham
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 12:16 PM

One person who died in 9/11 was Jeff Hardy, the brother and bass player of folksinger Jack Hardy. Jeff was working as a chef for one of the companies in the WTC.

I didn't really know him, but I met Jeff a couple of times when he was playing with Jack and his memory personalizes all the rest of the victims for me on this anniversary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 12:18 PM

Poppa, you are right of course, and I want to offer my apologies to Donuel. There is no other current thread to which he could have posted that excellent piece and he has every right to have done so here. Donuel, please forgive me.

There is still live coverage going on at the link I posted, but nothing is going on, on stage at the moment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: maire-aine
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 12:31 PM

Very eloquently put, Donuel. Thank you for sharing it.

Maryanne


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: gnu
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 02:13 PM

I got a half dozen phone calls already today from people that stayed with me, came home with me for washing clothes/shower/got a tour of Moncton (mostly The Real Atlantic Superstore for one-stop shopping)/whatever. Since I live alone in a bungalow with a finished basement and two bathrooms, I was able to help out stranded travellers, as did so many here in Atlantic Canada when the US airways were closed. Kind of a warm feeling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 02:15 PM

One thing I will always remember about that day is I spent it with the TV on various live news channels AND with my Mudcat family. Several of us were at home that day and posted as we watched the horrors occur. We posted descriptions and updates for our friends who were at work and didn't have access to the live coverage. We were posting as we watched, unable to do anything to help, as the second plane hit. It was one of those times which we hope only come along once in a lifetime, but lodged that much more in our memories by having spent it together. The closest thing I can liken it to is being in the same room with whomever when we found out JFK had been killed. It binds us together, this kind of terrible experience, in a way nothing else could. While I wish it had never happened, I am grateful I was here with Spaw, Mick, Alice, looking for Sinsull who lived there, and everyone else who was here. It began HERE.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 03:06 PM

As on Memorial day I planted a garden. 48 perenial bulbs and annual gold Chrys with a blue Star Aster center. I chose not to watch any TV today,   well I will watch 3 hours of House that I recorded. That irracible doctor is a kindred spirit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Pseudolus
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 10:30 AM

MSNBC aired a program last night called 9/11 As it Happened. It replayed the live coverage of all that happened that day. I couldn't believe they were showing it. I wish I could have seen the tributes all day but I could not. However, showing the live coverage? and the planes crashing into the buildings over and over as they showed on the actual day? I couldn't watch it. I went back to it several times because I just couldn't believe they were showing it but I couldn't watch it. Not because I didn't care or I was in denial...but all I could think of was if I had lost a close friend or family member on that day, would I want to revisit the "live" coverage and see the buildings before they crashed down on my friend or family member? I question the decision to run that footage and wonder just who their target audience was. It was sad....

Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 01:41 PM

It was a strange day that day..buildings falling down on their own like a pack of cards, planes vanishing into the Pentagon...seemingly wider than the holes left in the walls...so little debris to see...all those fellas who stood to make a zillion from their insurance policies..especially the part that ensured against a plane crashing into the buildings..let alone TWO of course, which brought in a double whammy for that insurance policy...

Yup, the Firefighters, the Police, the top brass Army guys are all in agreement, let alone the Architects and Engineers, that all was not as it seemed to be on that day...

But heck, what do we know, huh?

And don't even get me started on the Zionist bits abd bobs...

Very glad her case has come to Court, or is about to...thanks for letting us know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 01:41 PM

Thank you. You will now hear a frenzy of denial from those who support the government's official 911 conspiracy theory...or else they will just put their noses in the air and loftily ignore anything like this that they find disturbing to their comfortable view of things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 01:44 PM

...arrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhh!!!

(you may quote me)


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 01:48 PM

Yes - Thank goodness this will now come to trial. Afterward we can move onto other important subjects - Like Obamas Kenyan birth and Bigfoot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 02:00 PM

Question: If a court of law decided that there was no basis in fact for these allegations - would that decide it for you? I suspect it won't. Folks will just cry coverup and believe what they believe anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 02:16 PM

You have it exactly, Wesley.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Skivee
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 02:25 PM

This is bullshit.
I detested most things that Bush/Cheney did; but there is plenty to prove that they had NOTHING to do with planning, executing, of covering up the 9/11 attacks.
It is reprehensible to pretend otherwise. It's the same mindset that drives deniers to proclaim that the Apollo landings were faked; but with even less moral integrity.
I know people who were in the pentagon when it was hit. I know people who's relatives were on the plane that hit it. I know folks who lived right near the twin towers.
I heard the local news reports about the plane coming in low and smacking into the building. People who claim there was not any aircraft debris at the Pentagon are easily shown to be wrong by NUMEROUS images in local papers and local TV stations taken minutes after the impact.
The scale of the number of people who would have to be part of this supposed conspiracy would have been in the thousands. This would have had to include ( just to name a few)the military,local commuters, news agencies, cameramen, still photographers, news reporters, firefighters, air traffic controllers, medical techs, police, research scientists. Thousands would have not supported even the presidential election of Bush, let alone agreeing to be part of a plot like this that would have required their profound complicity.
The plane was seen hitting the building. A sequenced camera at an exit booth shows it hitting. The movements of the conspirators have been tracked.
I could go on, but those who refuse to believe the truth in favor of a complex lie will not be swayed.
Let me just scream this out in exasperation: JUST BECAUSE THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION WAS FULL OF ASSHOLES DOES NOT MAKE THEM CRIMINAL GENIUSES ON THE INSANELY COMPLEX LEVEL THAT THIS EFFORT WOULD HAVE REQUIRED.
I'm going to go take a pill now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 02:40 PM

What was that you were saying, Little Hawk? ;0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 02:51 PM

Here's the video that explains it all:

The Truth


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 02:55 PM

9/11 Truthers - The Military Officers Facebook page

You'll find The Firefighters, The Police and The Scholars on there too, Wesley, along with those Architects and Engineers..

But..I guess you know better, huh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 03:04 PM

Lizzie - Your best guess - how many people were involved in the plot and coverup?


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 03:40 PM

Very glad her case has come to Court, or is about to.

Thank goodness this will now come to trial.


What case are you referring to?


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 04:28 PM

The internet is funny, Lizzie... you can find 29 people who will swear that dinosaurs rode in the Ark with Noah. Once you accept certain premises, anything can be shown to follow. MOST of those "Firefighters, The Police and The Scholars" were nowhere near the WTC... and the ones who were have no particular reason to claim better expertise than the ones who did the careful digging, measuring, testing, etc. for the official reports.

You never DO explain how so many managed to hide such a huge conspiracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 04:45 PM

Bill - It's because they all pinky swore not to tell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 04:45 PM

hhmmm... I worked in legal (US Federal Code) editing pre and during 9/11. Funny how Dubya Jr, was putting protections in place, that he President could not be investigated or charged for criminal activity (Enron?) if the country was in a state of emergency and then suddenly, we had a state of emergency. Wag the Dog, anyone?

And didn't he behave quite peculiarly in the elementary school room, when he was told of the first plane hit on Trade Center? Why didn't he even look surprised?


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 04:52 PM

Jeezis, the absolute 24 katat bullshit that some people will believe is frightening. Try to live in the real world, will ya, and do your fantasy trevelling on your own time.

PS: you know the Moon Landing was faked in a TV studio in Des Moines, dontcha?


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 04:56 PM

Des Moines? No way. Nevada I could believe but, Des Moines? Yer nuts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 05:33 PM

I was told it was Disney Studios.

There are those—and they seem to be a rare breed these days—who neither accept at face value what the government or any other "official source" says, NOR do they subscribe to inevitable flurry of knee-jerk responses of the conspiracy buffs. The chronic conspiracy theorists characteristically seem to be responding more to something in their own makeup than they are to any actual evidence.

The more skeptical independent thinkers make it a point to examine the evidence. ALL of it. Then they make up their own minds. Tentatively, pending any additional evidence.

This is not to say that conspiracy theorists don't enmass a lot of detailed "evidence." But it involves intentionally ignoring a lot of evidence that does not support, or that contradicts what they WANT to believe.

When someone who actually knows about such things as whether or not a tall building will collapse into its own base or topple like a felled tree expresses what they know, and it doesn't support the conspiracy, they are vilified as being, at best, a dupe, or at worst, a sinister part of the conspiracy.

No amount of evidence will convince a conspiracy theorist that he or she is wrong. Their ego is invested in the idea that they are "in the know" and everyone else is a thickheaded, naïve dupe. OR part of the conspiracy. "Either a fool or a knave, whereas I am brilliant, certainly smarter than you, because I'm sharp enough to know the REAL truth" (patting self on back).

The reasonable person, who has essentially reached a conclusion about an issue, is perfectly willing to revise that conclusion when and if new, convincing evidence emerges. Not so with the conspiracy theory buff.

Don Firth

A couple of additions:

"Why didn't he even look surprised?    I'm sorry, but to me he looks like a man who's just felt the pit of his stomach turn to ice. And clueless as usual.

By the way. . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 05:38 PM

LOLOL.. yep..by the way...


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 06:20 PM

I associate with michaelr's question of 0340 ~~ WHOSE case? WHAT case? what is all this ABOUT, please?

& what "Zionist bits & bobs", Lizzie?

Someone please explain something. I am beginning to feel like Casey's Strawberry Blonde, whose "brain was so loaded it almost exploded"...

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 06:31 PM

When I first looked at the renewed thread, there was a post by an unnamed 'guest'. I assume it was deleted in line with standard policy.

I 'think' this is the case it referred to

It is better not to leave people wondering what the he** people are talking about.

In that link, a woman who was in the Pentagon and was injured, says she didn't see any plane or evidence of one.

I, personally, know a woman who was a Naval officer there who was knocked down by the impact, but not injured....if I remember correctly, SHE did see evidence of plane debris.

I can well understand why someone who was knocked out and in shock might miss a few details.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 06:48 PM

And then there's Fox Mulder. Go with the Flow- I Want To Believe.

Eyewitness testimony has been repeatedly proven to be - how shall we say- less than accurate?

Of course, we wouldn't want to let facts to get in the way of a good story --- the motto of the TeaBaggers.

God Help America


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 07:08 PM

Never let the dull facts   
          interfere with a good yarn.      
                   —John Jacob Niles
   
   Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST,Skivee
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 08:46 PM

So,it's 9 1/2 years after their supposed convoluted plan to kill thousands and blame it on 19 Islamic extremists.

what has been the benefit to the supposed conspirators?
Outside of a Gazillion dollars pissed away and thousands more lives been lost, little is heard from Bush/Cheney. They didn't set themseleves up as some ongoing Junta. Please remember in this discussion that I was not, and will never be a Bush supporter. I an quite happy that Obama won the election.
That doesn't change the facts that statements dear to the 911 deniers have been have been cherry-picked out of context, and that scientific facts about how building behave when exposed to thousands of degrees of heat for an extended period act are ignored.
Lizzie do you really believe that steel doesn't soften and melt at 2,000 degreesF? If so, you should look at any photo of steel being worked in a mill. It is worked when hot specifically BECUASE it is softer. Do you think that soft metal is as strong as solid?
The designers of the WTC were not surprized in the least that the framework softened and collapsed and that the upper floors destroyed the weakened sections and everything under them. Neither was Bin Laden. He counted on it. He was trying to improve on his earlier attempt.
Do you believe that literally hundreds of tons... TONS of plastic explosives can be planted in public buildings occupied continuously without members of the public being aware of it?

This very discussion is very small example of the continuation of free speech in the US. I think the anti-Bush 911 deniers are as delusional as those who think that Obama isn't a US citizen and is secretly plotting to turn the US into an Islamic nation; but no jack-booted attack squads are bursting through the doors of LittleHawk, or Lizzie because they have spilled the secret beans.
There is a view that THE GOVERNMENT is a megalithic block of demons who want nothing more than to turn us all into mindless slaves is a convenient mythos.
Many of us in the DC area personally know members of the security agencies of the government who would not support or allow such actions to go unopposed. It would not be possible to manage thousands of co-conspirators, the security forces needed to oversee them for the rest of their lives, the forces needed to oversee the overseers, to control the news media, the people who would have been forced to lie that they saw a plane hitting the Pentagon.
The bottom line of the lawsuit is that a plane never hit the building (the basic design of which was selected by General Groves because of tests that showed it to be a superior shape in resistance to explosive blast waves)So everyone who says they saw diffently must therefore be lying and be part of the plot.
Aircraft are much more fragile that most people think. There is an old saw that goes "Why don't they just make airplanes out of the stuff that they make those black boxes out of". The reason is that the plane would be so heavy that wings could not support it. A 757 at maximum TO weight is 255,000 could you imagine how much it would weigh if made of much denser material? Passenger flight would be entirely impractical. Aircraft design has always been a delicate balance between making the craft light enough for the wings to lift, while being strong enough to resist the natural forces of flight trying to rip it apart.
Aluminum will melt and burn away at temperatures well below the burning point of aviation fuels. There are photos that clearly show the remains of the most substantial sections of the Pentagon plane...the destroyed remains of the engines engines, buried deeply in the building. Pictures taken right scant minutes after impact show debris outside the building as well. Who would have put that debris there, in full view of commuters on I-395 and the George Washington Parkway in the moments after the explosion?
If you throw a soda can hard enough at a stone wall it will burst. Now imagine the wall is the thick side of the Pentagon, and that the soda can is travelling at more than 300 MPH,is full of air, aviation fuel, two ignition sources, and a bunch of innocent passengers.
Workers at the Pentagon who were horribly burned by the explosion have repeatedly tesified that the impact was from outside, and that they smelled aviation fuels as they tried to rescue themselves and their coworkers.
Could you imagine what could possibly make people lie about it after they watched the offices they had been working in explode around them, whose faces and bodies have been destroyed by third degree burns, whose coworkers died before their eyes, who tried to drag the smoldering and smashed bodies out, who saw the body parts, who have to live with not being able to rescue the screaming friends on the other side of walls of fire?
Money? Fame? A big recording contract? Yeah, that just might work.

This lie does an outragious disservice to the heroes of that terrible day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:31 AM

Many thanks, BillD; got it now.

There are those who believe in conspiracy theories more or less on principle*: like "Never A Moon Landing & Apollo was filmed by Disney", right down to "Moors Murderess Myra Hindley Not Really Dead: they were scared of the public reactions if they released her so announced her death and buried an empty coffin"

{contd p 94}

of which "Holocaust Denial" is probably the most mischievous example ~~ where, now, do those of you above who do so believe [Lizzie et al] stand on that particular unhappy example? ~ & has that anything to do with your gnomic throwaway about the "Zionist bits and bobs", Lizzie?

*And there are more {one hopes} who don't...

...including ~

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 01:00 AM

I suppose it might be worthwhile ot post the two messages that resurrected this thread. they were deleted because the person posted anonymously, which is not allowed here.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST

Date: 26 Mar 11 - 01:17 PM

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/03/military-officers-911-case-against-bush.html

April Gallop's trial against the government. It's about time.




Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 03:01 PM

My post was removed. Does that happen a lot here?

The post regarded the case of April Gallop. She was in the pentagon on 9/11. She was injured. She says no plane hit the building. She was not far removed from the point of impact. She is suing the government for contriving the event.

Why would a forum remove a post?


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 01:18 AM

"Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 03:01 PM

My post was removed. Does that happen a lot here?

The post regarded the case of April Gallop. She was in the pentagon on 9/11. She was injured. She says no plane hit the building. She was not far removed from the point of impact. She is suing the government for contriving the event.

Why would a forum remove a post?"

Your post was removed because 'unidentified' guests--that is those who use no name or handle if you're old enough to remember CB--will and do have their posts deleted. It is not personal; it's the result of folks abusing the site and stirring all kinds of sh#t. If you adopt a name such as Guest, dallyypoo or Guest, tfvjytf you won't be deleted. Capiche?


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 04:22 AM

"...Do you believe that literally hundreds of tons... TONS of plastic explosives can be planted in public buildings occupied continuously without members of the public being aware of it?.."

Yup. The building was shut down for 'maintenance' shortly before 9/11, as I recall.

You talk of the heroes of 9/11...yet, it is those VERY people themselves who are asking what the hell happened on that day, WHY they were told to destroy all the evidence, when their whole training, their whole job was about recording every single bit of evidence until the truth could be found...The Firefighters have been screaming out about it for ages.....

Sorry, but I believe the heroes, not those who can't see beyond the end of their 'don't be silly, no government would do such a thing to its own people' theorists....

It's all out there on the internet..sift through the mad stuff, get to the serious stuff. I did it.   I didn't want to believe what I was seeing, watching, reading, hearing...it made me feel ill, to be honest...but I came away knowing far more, understanding far more.

You don't get highly intelligent, believable people, experts in their field, coming together, the top guys from the military, the firefighters, the police, the ambulance crews etc..etc..etc..learned scholar, architects and engineers, ALL standing together, all demanding answers to so many questions...

All hearing nothing but.....silence.


If there is nothing to hide, then every single question can be answered...right?

If there is everything to hide, then every single question will be ignored or ridiculed...right?

Ask yourself which of those options has happened...then think on it.


I went out there into the internt and found it...you guys can too. I put a great deal on my Facebook page, but I expect it's all fallen off the other end now, as it was some time back...

It changed my perspective on many things, including Israel...and there are now Jewish people themselves demanding answers, desperate to know the real truth, for the 'Nineteen Eighty Four' version of it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 04:52 AM

Sorry, that should read 'NOT the 'Nineteen Eighty Four' version of it."


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 06:57 AM

I can't help what I know. When I worked on Federal Code at LexisNexis, Bush was moving protections into place, prior to 9/11.

I remember the news video that showed the scene of his receipt of the news. He heard it and then returned to previous activity.

And that picture Don, tells me nothing. He always looks like that. Beady eyes can show no surprise, I guess.

On the other hand I knew someone who knew someone who's father was in the Pentagon. He sustained a quite nasty leg injury and yes, it was a plane.

I don't believe in conspiracy theory that it was all set up by our own government. But, I think the government possibly had some knowledge of what was about to happen. Note the word "some." And I certainly believe that the conservatives have used the event for all it is worth in controlling the voting public and pushing what I deem to be a war motivated more by economics than by morality.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: andrew e
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:50 AM

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ppfinal.html

More on the pentagon


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 09:34 AM

Lizzie, Little Hawk, ANYBODY - Your best guess - how many people were involved in the plot and coverup ? Numbers please.


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 09:50 AM

Well, that depends....

Are you talking just the USA or Israel as well?

As far as The Cover Up goes, the Cover *will* be blown off, but not in the same way as The Towers and Building 7 came down. It'll be blown off by The Wind of Truth that's whistling through The Military, The Firefighters, Emergency Crews and the Police..


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 09:56 AM

"I can well understand why someone who was knocked out and in shock might miss a few details."

Bill, a commercial airliner cannot be dismissed as 'a few details."'


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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Skivee
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 10:35 AM

VT. I remember the Bush reading a book video very well my self.
My interpretation is in line with Don Firth's. I didn't like the guy or the job he did as President. His environmental, health, educational, and military policies have proven disastrous. They MOST CERTAINLY tried to consolidate power at the expense of the "little guy", and give themselves protection against those opposed to their policies. But Bush as calculating murderer of thousands of American citizens and destroyer of the most valuable property in NYC?
I don't think that either he or his cronies were that smart.
And I ask again, how have they benefited by their supposed plot? There was no power grab that changed the US utterly. When his term ran out, both he and Cheney left office. Neither he or his advisers tried to make themselves "President for Life".
They didn't make themselves richer than they would have been, or more powerful, or get better "dates" with their pretty office staffers.
They certainly ineptly used that stupid color system to try to sway mid-term elections. It didn't work.
I understand your skepticism. There was a lot that stank in the Bush administration; but for me, this one doesn't pass the test.
I respectfully disagree with your thoughts on this.

Lizzie, I doubt that you can produce documents from the World Trade Center that tells folks that the two freaking biggest buildings in NYC would be shut down for maintenance. Nearly 50,000 people worked in the WTC buildings. Over the weekends, that number obviously dropped but there were still tens of thousands there most of the time. I don't think you have any idea of the physical amount of work you would be talking about...getting of tons of explosives into the building,(via what? semi's in the parking garages, then using the elevators on each floor?

How would you convince each business on every floor to just stop working for a while, and "we're gonna be installing some new "fun plastic protector padding around the supports right near every bank of elevators on your floor." The army of technicians needed to place charges on every floor in less than a month would have numbered in the thousands?... placing detonators, rigging electrical lines.
And to have NOBODY say "who are all these creepy guys in our office
Many of your experts turn out to be suspect in THEIR reasoning. Many of the Truther "facts" have been shown to be inventions and willful misinterpretation. Like your supposed "we're just gonna close the whole place down for a bit" memo, it's B.S.

Show me videos of all those explosive trucks arriving, taken by any of the various cameras in ATMs, businesses,street cams, etc. Nobody could have gotten them all. How about testimony from actual inhabitants of the WTC towers who said that they saw suspicious characters moving strange volumes of stuff around.
Chemical tests done by people I trust showed NO PE residue on WTC debris.
The look of the "explosions" out of successive floors of the towers was quite consistent with air being rammed out the sides of the buildings as the tons of material smashed down from above.
You've ignored my comment about steel softening when exposed to extreme heat over time. I can only assume that it's because it's inconvenient to your beliefs.

I have seen interviews with the men who designed the WTC towers. They stated that the fire protection system placed around each support girder was only expected to give a few hours of support in extreme heat...long enough to evacuate, but not to prevent collapse.
Planes were flown into each building at high speed, about double the normal landing of take-off speed.
The planes blowing through the structure blasted most of the fire retardant away, so the structure collapsed sooner than designed for.
Body parts and plane parts were found all around the WTC complex and the Pentagon.

The fact that thousands of people are convinced that the WTC and the Pentagon, and Shanksville were all faked is a statistical blip when compared with the millions who do think that the broad strokes are correct.
But opinion is not important. Facts are. The various conspiracy theories don't hold up in the face of facts. Keep in mind that for a lot of us these were local events; and that we saw a lot more raw images that you did in the UK.
Workers at the Pentagon who were horribly burned and injured by the explosion have repeatedly said that the impact was from outside, and that they smelled aviation fuel as they tried to rescue themselves and their coworkers.
Now please re-read this section of my previous post and think REALLY HARD about it:

"Could you imagine what could possibly make people lie about it after they watched the offices they had been working in explode around them, whose faces and bodies have been destroyed by third degree burns, whose coworkers died before their eyes, who tried to drag the smoldering and smashed bodies out, who saw the body parts, who have to live with not being able to rescue the screaming friends on the other side of walls of fire?"

Now what could you think up that would make a woman whose face has been burned up to lie about how it happened. You didn't see her, because by the time she was being interviewed on local TV, the international press had moved on. I saw a lot of that, as well as hearing about the impact face to face from people I know .
They weren't lying.

Lizzie, I could go on the www.Intratubesweb and find a substantial number of folks who that believe without a doubt that strange forces or aliens, or the government are actually inserting fibers and insects into their bodies.. They are wrong.

There are those that are convinced that the moon landings were faked...that hundreds of people I met at NASA (of all different political and philosophical stripes) are all lying...that at least the first landing was faked. And that every one of the major players has kept that secret for over 40 years. Nobody blurted the truth out while drunk, or while flipped out?
I saw the launches of the last two Saturn Vs up close and personal. It would have been easier to fake than the complex truth I saw. I have met and talked with several astronauts. The Soviets did not proclaim the landings fake, though it would have been a tremendous propaganda coup if they could have proven it.

During one of the Apollo missions, at a point when the remaining fuel was vented from the S-IVb stage. The moment was being shown on TV from the capsule.
My buddy Paul said,"I wonder if we could see that?" We went outside and saw the expanding gas cloud in line with the moon.

There are those who think that aliens crashed near Roswell, and that their bodies are floating in some big pool of formaldehyde somewhere.

The conspiracy theorists are wrong about all these things, but believe them as passionately as you do.

Please show me that "Closing the WTC for a bit" notice.
And please show me that support girders don't lose their strength structural integrity when heated to 2,000F for 2 hours...that they don't sag and lose the ability to support the millions of pounds of material above them
And please show me proof that no plane hit the Pentagon, since that is central to the lawsuit you have brought to our attention. I can show you proof that you are wrong, but you won't believe it.

Lastly. I've no lover of Israel, but what the HELL are you going on about with them?????


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