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BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: GUEST,heric Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:24 PM I agree with katlaughing but maybe with a direct approach to the city council. Even after concerned people (the local business owners, for instance) get the government interested, the group will probably be subject only to reasonable restrictions to prevent hate speech and harassment. And that's AFTER you or someone goes through all the trouble of documenting actual hate speech incidents or actual harassment, no matter what legal avenue you choose. My kids' pediatrician is in a large building with mostly medical offices, but also with child care facilties. For the past FIFTEEN YEARS or so, a mostly silent group has set up in the entrance with HUGE photo-posters of aborted fetuses. Very graphic. Police protected them during counter-protests. Now they only come on Wednesdays and Saturdays. I don't know if that was part of a reasonable restriction order or not. A (reasonable, peaceful) creative response may be the better way. (Local religious leaders?) |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: katlaughing Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:38 PM Unfortunately they probably have a right to be there spewing as long as they don't get physical. Phelps and his ilk had to be allowed a space for protest at the funeral of Matthew Shephard in WY. They were contained in a small area which the cops set up for them. The caring crowds of people ignored them, some had signs of their own which they held up but would not engage in a screaming match with the bigots. Mother Nature really put a damper on it with a sudden influx of low-hanging, heavy snow clouds which let loose and ran them off. I would call the city or county attorney for starters or the state attorney general's office. |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: pdq Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:31 PM Again, cash-only settlements. Judge may impose terms of payment. I'm quite sure that a judge cannot even place a lien on property, although, most likely, your local Recorder will be willing to do so if given a notarised copy of the court decision. |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: Lox Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:27 PM I sometimes wonder if the mudcat isn't a small claims court of sorts ... different sort of claims of course ... |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: olddude Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:26 PM didn't know, I did know they are limited to 5K I do know they have teeth and enforce the same as the big courts. But they do address damages, if you are damaged somehow I suppose. Point is well taken I would talk to the local judge anyway just to see, I know ever state has their own criteria. Couldn't hurt to ask. |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: pdq Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:18 PM I think you have no idea what "small claims court" is, oldude. No offence, my friend, but such a court is limited to $5000 (or less) cash settlements and nothing else. They are not allowed to be involved in behavior modification or anything else. Verdicts like "defendant owes plaintif $452" is all they are allowed to do. |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: Lox Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:14 PM Or get some drums and bells and start singing Hare Krisna and dancing up and down the street. When they start yelling hate, you just shout "Gouranga Gouranga." Though it might sound to them like "your anger your anger." |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: olddude Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:13 PM by the way I read that group that did that one mom was awarded several million, it shut them up ... she setup some foundation for fallen soldiers or something like that if I recall. I would get some names of the big guys and file a small claims if they are local for distress or something whatever you want... infringement of your right to peace who the heck knows ... you may or may not win but it will get the point |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: olddude Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:10 PM There was a group that would protest outside of funerals of our fallen soldiers with signs like your child is in hell ... horrible things like that. What it took to stop them was a personal lawsuit for distress, get some people together, see if you have a small claims to start in NY it costs 10 bucks |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:59 PM There must be a more sinister way to deal with this, like putting up huge signs suggesting "SIN IS GIVING THESE PEOPLE MONEY!" |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: Rapparee Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:57 PM If you can get enough people to complain, preferably to the City Council, you can get something done. This is a "pedestrian mall" and presumably for the use of ALL citizens -- there must be ordinances about creating a nuisance, disturbing the peace, blocking access, making too much noise, etc. Get about forty or fifty people in a City Council meeting to complain and see what happens...this is, after all, an election year.... |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: artbrooks Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:54 PM Get a group together to sing "Song of the Starvation Army" over and over...and add a few tambourines and tubas. |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:46 PM Sounds like you've been touched by Reverend Wright. |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: Lox Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:41 PM Yes - I to am with JeffP ... ... only do it from a safe distance ... |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: Rapparee Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:38 PM Jeffp's got it in one. |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: Rapparee Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:37 PM Sounds like that bunch from Kansas -- the Westboro Baptist Church crowd from Topeka, led by the inimitable Fred Phelps. I'll let you find their website yourself. These are the folks who picket funerals of those who died in Iraq or Afghanistan because fighting in these places means fighting for the USA, which is a faggot country and so they are glad the people are dead because that's one less person fighting for a faggot country. They are deliberately confrontational, deliberately abusive, and completely unconnected with any Baptist Conference in the US. The "Rolling Thunder" motorcyclists of the American Legion have been known to drown out their hate speech with their bikes and several States have passed laws about interference with funerals. If they touch you, charge them with battery and be sure to claim that you felt very threatened by their action -- heck, charge them with sexual assault. Otherwise I'd look for a really loud heavy metal band to drown them out. Or better yet, suck on a red hard candy, something that will dye your spit blood red, and when they talk at you pretend you're deaf and then drool some bloody-looking spit out of the corner of your mouth. What they are doing is not unConstitutional, but it is obnoxious and could easily get them busted in the nose. Of course, then they've been martyred.... |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: jeffp Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:30 PM You could always start preaching the gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Exhort everybody to be touched by His Noodly Appendage. |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: Lox Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:08 PM Sounds like a nightmare. You have my sympathy. Be comforted by the knowledge that hate speech ultimately just gives the speaker a headache. When you walk away you might wonder why they do it, but then your life takes over again. The hate monger stews in a hell of their own making. Leave them to it. |
Subject: RE: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:00 PM I'd say it would depend on the local statutes and ordinances as interpreted and applied by local officials! Different States and localities have varying "Hate Speech" laws, and of course any law only has effect through the actions of public officers, and it could be that your local police chief/sheriff(etc) actually are either afraid of flexing their muscles in the interest of a strong Hate Speech law or even agree with the "sermon". I don't think there is or could be any requirement that a preacher in public be theologically blessed or ordained in order to express his views in the public mall. And of course even if there were such a requirement it's easy enough to get some group to make you a preacher by their lights, and/or easy enough to get a "diploma" from some diploma mill by payment of a nominal fee. Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: BS: Hate speech sermons - 1st Am.protected? From: Mrrzy Date: 11 Sep 08 - 08:24 PM Hi, it would happen to me, wouldn't it... but my nice town has been invaded by a gang of out-of-town-based, really loud and supremely hell-fired evangelists, who come to the pedestrian mall where there's free music every friday and absolutely *harangue* the crown about SIN and how we're all going to HELL (pronounced HAIL) and how god HATES (me, my friends, etc) - I am quoting, they are really awful. Anyway, since all they talk about is hate (they never, ever mention their god's LOVE, oh no). So it's not like I could avoid them, that would take away Fridays After Five, no way jose. So. Since all they talk about is hate, can I get them banned on hate speech grounds? I mean, if someone stood there and said I HATE GAYS, wouldn't that be hate speech? So if they stand there and say God tells me to hate gays, really loudly and over and over again, very southern American preaching, with the REVEALED word of GOD in their hands... Can't I make them either get ordained or find a church? The cops are always there because they draw a huge crowd of hecklers, not led by by certainly joined by me... any legal precedents anybody? I've got the Internet research going... and a friend at lexisnexis... but y'all might want to chime in on the idea, anyway. |