Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 12:15 AM

My original link led to all three prints, incidentally; but not everyone seems to have looked. Never mind.

Here is the tune.

X:1
T:The Maid of Listowel
S:John Murphy (67) in Marylebone Workhouse, 17 October 1908.
Z:Cecil J Sharp
B:Journal of the Folk-Song Society, V (18) 1914, 45-7.
N:Originally noted in one flat with all Bs marked as naturals.
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
M:3/4
K:DDorian
A2 | D2 A2 A2 | A2 G2 F2 | E2 D2 E2 | G2 E2 F2 |
w:One morn in Oc-to-ber for sweet re-cre-a-tion I
F2 G2 A2 | A2 B2 c2 | A2 G2 E2 | D4 E2 | F2 G2 A2 |
w:met a fair maid and she bleach-ing her clothes. I stood in a-
A2 G2 E2 | E2 D2 E2 | G2 E2 F2 | F2 G2 A2 | A2 B2 c2 |
w:maze-ment to gaze on this fair one. I asked if she pleased, would she
A2 G2 E2 | D4 G2 | A2 B2 c2 | d2 c2 d2 | e2 c2 B2 |
w:come to Lis-towel? She smi-ling-ly said with the mild-est be-
c2 A2 G2 | A2 B2 c2 | d2 e2 f2 | e2 c2 B2 |
w:ha-viour, De-sist and don't tease me but leave me a-
c4 G2 | A2 B2 c2 | d2 c2 d2 | e2 d2 B2 |
w:lone. My par-ents might blame me and you might de-
c2 A2 G G | A2 A2 B2 | c2 B2 c2 | A2 G2 E2 | D4 |]
w:ceive me For you seem as a schem-er that's straight from Lis-towel.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:52 PM

Both 'Diana' examples are evidently variant sets from the same printer (as the Bodleian site states), so it's 1:1, not 2:1. Bear in mind that many broadside printers pirated each others' material or got the words from recitation, and that the typesetter didn't always have the benefit of a physical print to copy from. Errors and mis-spellings were common, not least from Irish printers. Haley was one of the better ones, though, and in a choice between 'Diana' and 'Damer' I'd go for the latter, since there's an obvious rationale for it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 06:29 PM

To me, that does throw doubt on Damer........if 2 different sources say Diana?

Anyone else know better?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:25 PM

Three versions of THE KERRY COURTSHIP at the Bodleian Library:

2806 c.8(144)

Harding B 26(306)

Harding B 26(307) Haly Printer 95 [sic] South Main Street, Cork

The last one is the most legible.

OK, if I had read the whole thread carefully, I would have known that "Damer" made more sense than "Diana", but the first two broadsides do have "Diana".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 03:42 PM

Eh?? where has "Diana" come from?!! (or perhaps I just haven't seen the 3rd text, only found 2 so far)

Please could someone post all 3 links to the Bodleian texts? would be helpful - thanks.

Sue

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:35 PM

Damer! (See above)

Subject: Lyr Add: THE KERRY COURTSHIP (from Bodleian)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:23 PM

I compared the above text to the three versions at the Bodleian—all are somewhat different—and I have marked the differences in the following text. In some cases the words I have inserted are a definite improvement (IMHO); in other cases they're just arbitrarily different: choose whichever seems best, or more singable to you. I haven't bothered showing differences that I think are definitely worse than the version already posted (typos, etc.).

THE KERRY COURTSHIP

One morn day in October, for sweet recreation,
I met a fair maid and she bleaching her clothes;
I stood in amazement to gaze at and gazed on this fair one,
And asked her if she pleased would she come to Listowel.
She smilingly said with the mildest behavior,
Desist and don't tease me, but leave me alone,
For my parents might would blame me and you might deceive me;
You seem like as a schemer that's straight that strayed from Listowel.

Why, indeed, I'm no schemer that wants to deceive you,
But all my fond secrets to you I'll disclose,
And besides I'll swear allegiance, to you I'd prove be faithful.
If I could embrace you I'd make you my own:
By the high Hill of Hoth, by the hole in my coat,
By the what ships that go are sailing through Stdadballymore Strandballymore,
The fairies of Leinster, the druids and witches,
I'd I'll make you my bride if you came come to Listowel.

Why, you seem like a man that's given to raking:
I cannot trust any man that I do not don't know,
For they promise the world, deluding poor females,
And afterwards leave them in grief for to bemoan;
My fortune is low, and I fear you'd degrade me,
You'd censure and tease me, and show me the door,
To be trudging about with a babe in my arms,
If I was so vain as to go to Listowel.

After all that I swear swore, sure you can't be ungrateful,
You cannot suspect that I'm telling a lie,
For the judge on his throne cannot ask but an oath
For to swing off a man or transport him for life;
So therefore be preparing without hesitation—
We're not the two first that went off on the road,
And that fortune might favour the fruit fruits of our labour,
To live out at our ease in the town of Listowel.

If you swore as much more, I shall not be deluded;
I highly suspect you were married before,
For there is many a man who would think it no scruple,
Defiling fair maids or despising despairing their own;
So I'll take my own time and I'll I ne'er will go roving,
My heart it is young, and I ne'er will give o'er
Till my father will sanction my lawful contraction,
And then I might live in the town of Listowel.

There is fifty pounds that I have got in my pocket,
That I have received last week of my own,
For the corn I sent down to sweet Ballylongford,
And more I have ready to send to the store.
If I had all the gold of King Saul or King David,
Or the wealth of great Damer Diana, on you I'd bestow,
For to rifle your charms without much alarm,
And dangle dandle your babe in the town of Listowel.

If I was so vain as to come go with you roving,
I'm certain and sure that your temper you'd show;
You'd surely forsake me for my misdemeanor,
And I think I'll live single a year or two more;
But if you wish for to have me, you'll make me your consort;
You'll go to the priest and he'll marry us both,
And our parents on both sides shall will give us some money,
To set up a shop in the town of Listowel.

I jumped with great joy for to grant her proposal,
My heart was so glad when gave a jump as I heard her sweet notes.
We went to the pastor, who joined us in wedlock,
And when we came back we had whiskey galore.
We spent the whole night in great joy and contentment,
With all our good neighbours and friends did resort,
And the toast they drank round them to me and my wife
Was to prosper and thrive in the town of Listowel.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:25 AM

Refresh - would love to know what the tune is and where it came from...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 08:30 PM

There's perhaps a vague general similarity in the outline, but the time signatures are quite different; they don't sound alike.

Subject: Tune Add: THE MAID OF LISTOWEL
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 08:11 PM

How very interesting, with the verses being changed around, and that extra last verse - always thought it odd the way it ended on a half-verse...

Also: the Harding broadside 306 http://bodley24.bodley.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/acwwweng/ballads/image.pl?ref=Harding+B+26(306)&id=10569.gif&seq=1&size=1 gives "Strandballymore", as opposed to "Stdadballymore" in broadside 307. Anyone got any thoughts/research on this?


Also: found this on Fiddler's Companion site:
MAID OF LISTOWEL, THE (An Aindear Ua Lios-Tuatail). Irish, Hornpipe. D Mixolydian. Standard tuning. AABB. Source for notated version: Chicago Police Sergeant James O'Neill, a fiddler originally from County Down and Francis O'Neill's collaborator [O'Neill]. O'Neill (Krassen), 1976; pg. 172. O'Neill (Music of Ireland: 1850 Melodies), 1903/1979; No. 1595, pg. 295.

X:1

T:Maid of Listowel, The

M:C|

L:1/8
R:Hornpipe

S:O'Neill – Music of Ireland (1903), No. 1595

Z:AK/Fiddler's Companion

K:D

B2 | AFEF E2 (FD) | EFAB d^cde | fedB AFEF | DFAF D2 (BA) |

AFEF E2 (FD) | EFAB d^cde | fedB AFDF | E2 EE E2 :|

|: BF | AFAB defe | dBAB d2 (de) | fedB AFEF | DEFG A2 (BF) |

AFEF E2 (FD) | EF (3AB^c dcde | fedB AFDF | E2 EE E2 :|

            

Anyone know if this is the FHR tune?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:33 PM

As sung by John Murphy, noted by Cecil Sharp, published in the Journal (reference above) and recorded by Five Hand Reel. As I've said, no other example of the song seems ever to have been found in oral currency. Distant memory suggests that the tune belonged to the 'Unfortunate Rake' family. No time to post an abc at the moment, but I'll try to get back to it if nobody else manages in the next few days.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Frank_Finn
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:19 PM

And now the air. Anybody got any idea??

Subject: Lyr Add: THE KERRY COURTSHIP (from Bodleian)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 05:25 PM

Just transcribed it from the Bodleian broadside. Here it is:


The Kerry Courtship

One morn in October for sweet recreation
I met a fair maid and she bleaching her clothes;
I stood in amazement to gaze at this fair one
And asked her if she pleased would she come to Listowel
She smilingly said with the mildest behaviour
Desist and don't tease me, but leave me alone
My parents might blame me and you might deceive me
You seem like a schemer that's straight from Listowel.

Why, indeed I'm no schemer that wants to deceive you
But all my fond secrets to you I'll disclose
And besides I'll swear allegiance, to you I'd prove faithful
If I could embrace you I'd make you my own
By the high Hill of Hoth, by the hole in my coat
By the ships that go sailing through Stdadballymore*
The fairies of Leinster, the druids and witches
I'd make you my bride if you came to Listowel

Why you seem like a man that's given to raking
I cannot trust any man that I do not know
For they promise the world, deluding poor females,
and afterwards leave them in grief for to bemoan;
My fortune is low, and I fear you'd degrade me
You'd censure and tease me and show me the door
To be trudging about with a babe in my arms
If I was so vain as to go to Listowel

After all that I swear sure you can't be ungrateful
You cannot suspect that I'm telling a lie
For the Judge on his throne cannot ask but an oath
For to swing off a man or transport him for life**
So therefore be preparing without hesitation -
We're not the two first that went off on the road
And that fortune might favour the fruit of our labour
To live out our ease in the town of Listowel.

If you swore as much more I shall not be deluded
I highly suspect you were married before
For there is many a man who would think it no scruple
Defiling fair maids or despising their own
So I'll take my own time and I'll ne'er will go roving
My heart it is young and I ne'er will give o'er
My father will sanction my lawful contraction
And then I might live in the town of Listowel.

There is fifty pounds that I have got in my pocket
That I received last week of my own
For corn I sent down to sweet Ballylongford,
And more I have ready to send to the store.
If I had all the gold of King Saul or King David
Or the wealth of great Damer on you I'd bestow
To rifle your charms without much alarm
And dangle your babe in the town of Listowel.

If I was so vain as to come with you roving
I'm certain and sure that your temper you'd show
You'd surely forsake me for my misdemeanour
And I think I'll live single a year or two more;
But if you wish for to have me, you'll make me your consort
You'll go to the priest and he'll marry us both
And our parents on both sides shall give us some money
To set up a shop in the town of Listowel.

I jumped with great joy for to grant her proposal,
My heart was so glad when I heard her sweet notes
We went to the pastor, who joined us in wedlock,
and when we came back we had whiskey galore.
We spent the whole night in great joy and contentment,
With all our good neighbours and friends did resort,
And the toast they drank round them to me and my wife
Was to prosper and thrive in the town of Listowel.

* Stdadballymore - er - sic

** for life from FHR version, making the line scan; seems incomplete otherwise

Otherwise; might not be perfect; it's late & my eyes are blear.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM

From the Bodleian sources it is clearly Damer. A close comparison of the broadside with the FHR version is recommended. See Harding B 26(307) for clarity!

Thanks to all for this.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:51 AM

I gather from the Wikipedia link above that Damer was a moneylender too. He's the one!

Joe - are you going to make the final corrections now?

Cheers
Sue

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Frank_Finn
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:42 PM

The song, "The Limerick Rake" contains these lines
John Damer of Shronel had plenty of gold
And Devonshire's treasure was twenty times more,
But he's laid on his back among nettles and stones,
Agus fagaimid siud mar ata se

Lord Damer and Devonshire were big landowners in Limerick which borders Kerry and is a stones throw away from Listowel.
I go with Damer

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: GUEST,Jerry O'Reilly
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:22 AM

And there is a townland called Ballymore just outside Cobh, which might account for gazing at the ships going sailing in Cork Harbour?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 10:55 PM

There IS in fact a Ballymore in Kerry, on the Dingle peninsula - right on the sea.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: spidra
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 05:49 AM

Sure is interesting stuff.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 05:42 AM

And then there's this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Damer

Note the Irish connections, which indicate that the lyrics "riches of Damer" do make sense.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 08:45 PM

Traditional source? This one was noted by Cecil Sharp on October 17 1908, from one John Murphy, aged 67, who was at that time an inmate of the Marylebone Workhouse in London. See Journal of the Folk-Song Society, V (18) 1914, 45-7. Though 'Timon' may have been meant, Mr Murphy certainly pronounced the word 'Damer'. Five Hand Reel got the song from the Journal, and seem to have stuck reasonably faithfully to Mr Murphy's words. At present it's the sole example listed in the Roud Folk Song Index, at number 2556.

It seems that the song was printed on broadsides as 'The Kerry Courtship', but the Bodleian website isn't working properly just now, so I can't check. Try this link later on:

The Kerry Courtship.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 08:03 PM

Might be of interest to some:

http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/MAID.htm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 07:26 PM

Oh, and source:

Vinyl is: Five Hand Reel, by Five Hand Reel, Rubber Records 1976

The track is credited: "Trad. arranged Five Hand Reel"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 07:20 PM

Right - gig over, back to the research...

On the original vinyl album, the text is pretty much the same. The only differences are:

"...I met a fair maid and she bleachin' her clothes" (which is what FHR actually sing)

"By the high hill of Howth, by the hole in my coat" - which I (alongside Martin) thought was probably the case - it's interesting, cos I can see that "Howen" got put in because whoever retyped the lyrics for the CD read it wrong, as the vinyl lyrics are in a weird font, and it DOES look like Howen! but I can see it's actually Howth.

It definitely says Strand Ballymore - which I reckon just means the Strand (beach) of Ballymore, no problem there.

And - there IS a Ballylangford in Kerry, so why shouldn't that be correct? I'm for keeping that in.

You're probably right about Timon, can imagine that might've been misheard orignally when someone learned/transcribed it when hearing it sung.

Does that cover it, Joe?

:)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: spidra
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 04:21 PM

You folks are good!

My only hesitance about substituting "Shanballymore" for "Strandballymore" is that neither the Shanballymore in Galway nor the Shanballymore in Cork is located on a body of water. The one in Cork is at least within some miles of a river, but it's still not a town you'd expect ships to sail in.

Can't find a modern reference to Strandballymore. Towns simply called Ballymore (one in Donegal, one in Westmeath and one in Wexford) aren't on the ocean, either.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 02:21 PM

Yes, and the High Hill of Howth is one of the most beautiful places I have ever visited. Wildflowers, a grand view of a glass-smooth Irish Sea, and a lighthouse!!

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: MartinRyan
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 01:39 PM

That'll be "High Hill of Howth", I suspect. Joe - you should have spotted that one, having been there! "Strand Ballymore" is PROBABLY "Shanballymore" - but I'll need to check.

It's a nice one - though I have no recollection of ever hearing it sung.

Regards.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 01:31 PM

Sue, I added the changes from Spidra in italics. Let me know what's your final decision on the text, and I'll edit in permanent changes. Can you give more source information - it's from the sleeve of which record?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 01:05 PM

God, that takes me back. I found the vinyl the other day; must give it a spin - a very lovely song & very beautifully sung. Do we have a traditional source at all?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:51 PM

Ah ok - got that from the remastered cd, but would be interesting to check on my vinyl version to see if the words are the same... will do that later tonight. :)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: spidra
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:34 PM

I have two amendments to make. It's "Ballylongford" instead of "Ballylangford" (although the pronunciation is probably very close to that). Ballylongford is a town near Listowel. And it's "the riches of Timon", referring to Timon of Athens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timon_of_Athens_(person)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballylongford

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: spidra
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:23 PM

Thanks so much!

Subject: Lyr Add: THE MAID OF LISTOWEL
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 09:05 AM

Here ya go (just typed it up from the sleeve, have it in mind to have a go at singing it myself one day):

The Maid of Listowel

One morn in October for sweet recreation
I met a fair maid who was bleachin' her clothes
I stood in amazement to gaze at this fair one
I said my fair maid won't you come to Listowel
She smilingly said with the mildest behaviour
Desist and don't tease me but let me alone
My parents might blame me and you might deceive me
You seem like a schemer that's straight from Listowel.

Indeed I'm no schemer that wants to deceive you
But all my fond secrets to you I'll disclose
Swear an allegiance, to you I'd prove faithful
If I could embrace you I'd make you my own
By the high hill of Howen, by the hole in my coat
The ships that go sailing through Strand Ballymore
The fairies of Leinster, the druids and witches
I'd make you my bride if you came to Listowel

If I was so vain as to come with you rovin'
I'm certain and sure that your temper you'd show
You'd surely degrade me for my misdemeanour
If I was so vain as to come to Listowel
My fortune is small and you'd surely degrade me
You'd censure and tease me and show me the door
Walkin' about with a babe in my arms
If I was so vain as to come to Listowel

After all that I swear sure I can't be ungrateful
How can you suggest that I'm telling a lie
A judge on his throne cannot ask but an oath
For to swing of a man or transport him for life
So let's be preparin' without hesitation
We're not the first two to go off on our own
Fortune might favour the fruits of our labour
To live out our ease in the town of Listowel.

If you swore as much more I should not be deluded
I highly suspect that you're married before
Many's the man who would think it no scruple
To defile a young maid or despisin' his own
I'll take my own time and I'll ne'er go a 'rovin'
My heart it is young and I ne'er will give o'er
My father will sanction my lawful contraction
I care to live single a year or two more.

Here's full fifty pounds I have got in my pocket
That I earned last week of my own
For corn I sent down to sweet Ballylangford (Ballylongford?)
And more I have ready to send to the stores
If I had the wealth of King Saul or King David
The riches of Damon (Timon?) on you I'd bestow
To rifle your charms without much alarm
And dangle your babe in the town of Listowel.

If you want to gain me you'll make me your consort
You'll come to the priest and he'll marry us both
Parents on both sides shall give us some money
To open a shop in the town of Listowel.

Subject: Lyr Req: Maid of Listowel
From: spidra
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 05:53 AM

I used to own the 5 Hand Reel recording of this tune but several moves and the introduction of CDs and MP3s have obscured where and how I have it recorded. I'm hoping to go to the British Isles for the first time and may actually be staying in Listowel so this tune comes to mind. Does anyone know the lyrics?