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BS: Question on McCain's academy record
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: KB in Iowa Date: 06 Oct 08 - 03:28 PM True enough. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Bobert Date: 06 Oct 08 - 03:27 PM No, and we most likely wouldn't have heard of Obama either... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: KB in Iowa Date: 06 Oct 08 - 02:13 PM If Obama had finished 894th out of 899 do you think we would have heard about that in a McCain ad? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 06 Oct 08 - 12:39 PM McCain said something very close to these words: "I sometimes decide too quickly and make a mistake that I regret, but I live with the consequences." That's fine for himself, but as president we'd have to live with the consequences. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Oct 08 - 12:00 AM >>Measure twice, cut once is an old oriental saying. I happen to have a variant of it [measure three times, cut once] on a print which I had long before Perot even thought about running for President.<< My Grandfather said it two me several times when he was teaching me basic carpentry. That was before the moon landings. Certainly well before I had heard of Ross Perot. Its good advice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: BK Lick Date: 05 Oct 08 - 11:55 PM The current cover story of Rolling Stone: Make-Believe Maverick "A closer look at the life and career of John McCain reveals a disturbing record of recklessness and dishonesty."Read it and weep. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: kendall Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:44 AM I believe it was 5, not a couple of planes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Teribus Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:34 AM "What McCain's grades indicate to me is that he probably wasn't "Academy material" to begin with but go in because of family ties... Then he wrecked a couple expensive airplanes... Yeah, okay, he did get shot down... Who is to say that there wasn't some pilot error in that little situation??? Only he knows and if he screwed up he ain't gonna tell no one..." – Bobert By Christ I'd like to find out exactly what experience of anything nearly remotely like the subject material Bobert has to make any of those statements. They no doubt will however enter the lists as BOBERT FACTS and as such become irrefutable in the eyes of the chattering left. Previous examples: • 30,000 Patriot missiles raining down on Baghdad; • Heads displayed on sticks on the lawn of the White House (Re Saddam's sons); • In excess of 1,000,000 Iraqi's killed because of US actions in Iraq; • 1% of the population of Haiti possessing all the wealth of said country. John McCain was a combat qualified Naval Aviator wasn't he Bobert? Here's a little story for you Bobert about naval aviation and flying fixed-wing from aircraft carriers. Airframes and engines do not like salt water, take-offs and landings are extremely hard on every bit of equipment involved, for the RN over a standard commission for a carrier (30 – 36 months) fixed-wing squadrons attached to an aircraft carrier's air group will lose something between 15-20% of their aircraft just because of the environment they are committed to fly in. In the RN as aircrew you were allowed three ejections from aircraft, then you were taken off flying duties because your spine was so compressed that a fourth ejection would in all probability break your back. But let's get back to your outpourings on John McCain: • "grades indicate to me is that he probably wasn't "Academy material" to begin with" Bobert you wouldn't know what "Academy material" was even if it jumped up and bit you in the arse. • "but go in because of family ties" – I take it that should actually read – "but got in because of family ties" – Whoops Bobert that chip on your shoulder is showing – substantiate that or refrain from bringing it up again, by the bye what his grades were at the Naval Academy, in no way reflect the grades he produced to win his place there. I know that that sort of logic completely leaves you out in the cold Bobert, but you do it time and time again. • "Then he wrecked a couple expensive airplanes... Yeah, okay, he did get shot down" – Got shot down doing what Bobert?? Serving his country?? Something that you yourself have never done – "Ask not what my country can do for me….." and all that Bobert. Your credo is exactly the opposite. • "Who is to say that there wasn't some pilot error in that little situation???" – Your basis for suggesting that Bobert is what exactly?? Or are we going to get another fable about your extensive hours huddled behind the controls of your brothers Cessna?? • "Only he knows and if he screwed up he ain't gonna tell no one..." Really Bobert?? Again what is the basis for that remark?? Considering that after having been taken as a POW, badly injured, grossly mistreated, beaten and tortured, when offered an easy way out he refused – In the impossibly unlikely set of circumstances that could have been propelled you into his shoes when that offer of release was made Bobert, what would you have chosen?? Would you have done the same as John McCain, or would you have gone with the standard Bobert line, "Get me the hell outa here"?? As for those who qualified well down the list in military training establishments and then went on to great things, from the Second World War we have Winston Churchill and Bernard Law Montgomery. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Bobert Date: 16 Sep 08 - 10:26 AM Well, intellegent or not, McCain has all the bad character traits as George Bush which include but are not limited to the following: stubborness, lacking in good sense, secretive, vindictive, not all that enlightened and as Einstein observed in his definition of insane... ...he tends to repeat a behavior expecting a different result... Now, one could argue that McCain could have done better in school if he had wanted to but the above traits are far more disturbing than his class ranking... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: EBarnacle Date: 16 Sep 08 - 10:11 AM Measure twice, cut once is an old oriental saying. I happen to have a variant of it [measure three times, cut once] on a print which I had long before Perot even thought about running for President. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 16 Sep 08 - 09:27 AM I luv that one by Ike ... thanks Kendall :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: kendall Date: 16 Sep 08 - 09:24 AM I studied drama under MacArthur." (D. Eisenhower) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: PoppaGator Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:18 PM "It might even be wise to ban all threads that are not about Palin for the next few weeks." Hardly necessary! There's way too much talk about the psuedo-formidable Ms Palin here in the Mudcat Bullshit Basement. This may the first time is history that activity down here has been so very similar to what's going on outside int he real world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Midchuck Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:11 PM Please define torture. Putting someone's head under water, during controlled sessions, for 30 seconds, and then yelling "who gave you the bomb _____ !!!" is rude but it is not torture, especially when the bastard being questioned may have killed a dozen of our kids with a roadside bomb. Well, it isn't torture in the sense of pulling out fingernails with pliers or cutting off parts with a dull knife, but it's pretty close. And the operative phrase is "may have." It's reasonable to assume that some of the ones this is being done do didn't do anything much. "Military intelligence" is right up there with "military music" and "military justice." Peter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: GUEST,heric Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:56 PM Why are you guys talking about McCain at all? We should be talking about Palin's canned idiocy! It might even be wise to ban all threads that are not about Palin for the next few weeks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Joe Offer Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:43 PM Jack, Perot said "measure twice cut once" all the time. I think it was one of his major campaign slogans - and the way he said it just begged for caricature. I can hear him now, saying "measure twice cut once," in his squeaky twang. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 15 Sep 08 - 03:49 PM Joe, I've seen Obama have plenty of chances to make rash decisions, but he always seems to think before he responds, he always looks before he leaps. McCain always seems to like to throw the dice on a 50-50 bet, Sarah Palin being the most recent but certainly not the only example. On that factor alone I think that Obama is the better choice to repair the damage eight years of deregulation and Reaganomics has done to our financial system and ecomony. I don't recall thinking of Perot as patient or prudent. Did he say "measure twice cut once" ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Donuel Date: 15 Sep 08 - 03:05 PM Yikes McArthur President? Truman got wind that McArthur may have had a plan to be president without an election. I only ask you to recall the academic excellence of George W Bush and his character as displayed on 9-11. (doing nothing and then hiding in a Nebraska bunker.) but then again I am one of those who believe he knew what was about to happen |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:55 AM I ask ... what does torture have to do with academic record? ... but thinking back in time, some of those classes in college were a real torture to sit through. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: pdq Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:46 AM Please define torture. Putting someone's head under water, during controlled sessions, for 30 seconds, and then yelling "who gave you the bomb _____ !!!" is rude but it is not torture, especially when the bastard being questioned may have killed a dozen of our kids with a roadside bomb. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: EBarnacle Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:14 AM McCain's issue which irks me the most is that he has fallen into line with his party leaders on the question of torture. If there is anyone in the government who should be speaking against it, he is the one. If he cannot stand against his own people on this, how can he be a true agent for change? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:46 AM "Best clerk I ever had" ... General MacArthur in reference to Ike. Dwight D. Eisenhower ... 59 in a class of 164 Douglas MacArthur ... 1st in a class of 93 (now, would you want this high achiever as president?) biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: kendall Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:30 AM Are you trying to piss me off? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 14 Sep 08 - 11:59 PM "Explain why?" the mere asking of the question is sufficient for many... :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: kendall Date: 14 Sep 08 - 08:15 PM Explain why? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 14 Sep 08 - 06:50 PM From the thread list... BS: What ruined your day today BS: Question on McCain's academy record |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: kendall Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:54 PM Poppagator, the kind of president we get from the bottom of the class is George A. Custer. Depends on which historian you read. Many have vilified Grant as a drunk, but others say it is not true.The south was a long way from beaten at the battle of Vicksburg. After wards, it was just a matter of time |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: pdq Date: 14 Sep 08 - 12:11 PM Again, my post about presidential IQs is not intended to be political. Although I did assemble it, I did not choose the names. Several presidential candidates were "sold " to the public as being excepetionally smart: Adlai Stevenson, John Kennedy, Richard Nixon, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. Some were proven to be so, some were proven to be otherwise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Stringsinger Date: 14 Sep 08 - 11:45 AM PDQ, specifically absent from your list of high IQ's was Jimmy Carter who measured higher than the others. As to McCain's IQ, I'm not considering that to be important. But I do consider his SQ (ability to make the right decisions for our society) SQ=Social Quotient |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Ebbie Date: 14 Sep 08 - 02:40 AM "LH: Think of the songs that could help support Chongo's candidididacy. "(Whew. That's ONE tough word to spell.)"Peace It's even harder to pronounce. :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: EBarnacle Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:45 PM My point was that academic, even early life, achievement need not be a predictor of future success. Had Lee remained with the Union instead of following what he felt was his true allegiance, he might have become president. We have had several generals as president. Some were great. Some were disasters and "old Tippecanoe" died before he could make a dent either way. I am not a fan of McCain and I disagree with most of his stances but I do not doubt that he will do what he considers his best. Frankly, if he gets in, I will pray for his health, in part because Palin terrifies me. We really do not need another ignorant zealot in the White House. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Peace Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:26 PM Get each of 'em to buy you a beer first and you'd last a long time, unless someone lit a match. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: pdq Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:24 PM I can agree that building the man up to mythological proportions is wrong, but I disagree that his last years were spent in peace. He was destitute, unhappy and misunderstood. A complex man who is seldom seen that way by history. (PS: if I had 50,000 people trying to shoot me I'd get drunk too) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Bobert Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:00 PM Well, yeah, pdq... He did finally find peace and that is a good thing and I'm glad for him for that... I have no animosity for the man... I just don't buy the mythology part... And I would guess that by the end of this life he didn't either... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:59 PM I was alluding to the earlier part of his life, pdq, prior to his military career. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: pdq Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:53 PM Actually, he was a successful business man, but, while serving as president, his partner cheated people. Not a hint of fault in Grant, but he still paid everybody back who felt they were owed money. He spent his last years penniless, rocking in a rocking chair on the back porch because of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:46 PM An interesting hypothetical! What if Grant had been practicing sobriety? He might have succeeded as a small businessman and never have joined the army in the first place! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Bobert Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:36 PM He ***was*** a drunk, pdq... He also has gotten way too much credit in American Mythology 101... Given the same number of equipped troops there were at least a half a dozen generals, most of them Southern, who would have stomped Grant into the ground... But, hey, I'm glad he did those other wonderful things... If he hadn't been drunk he probably would have done even more... Who knows??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:34 PM No, Bobert, Grant was a highly effective general for two simple reasons. He used what he had (more men and more guns than the South) and he was not afraid to take very heavy losses and just keep pressing on no matter what. In a war of attrition like that the South could only lose in the end. McClellan was a fine trainer and army commander until it came to fighting battles. He always grossly overestimated the enemy troop strength, he was incredibly overcautious, he would not press the attack when the opportunities presented themselves...good God, the man was a disaster as a battlefield commander. Grant used what he had...overwhelming strength...and used it without doubt or hesitation. He was not afraid to lose a lot of lives in the process, and that was exactly the commander the North needed. That's why Lincoln was glad to have Grant in command. You know I love the Army of Northern Virginia, Bobert. Lee and Jackson are my heroes. But that doesn't change the fact that Grant was a highly effective general. Maybe the liquor helped. Who knows? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Peace Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:31 PM Yeah. Hell, Churchill too. And Dave 'the seed' Gittchanti. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: pdq Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:28 PM President Grant started the National Park and National Forest systems. The Dept. of the Interior now protects nearly 35% of US lands from private developement by their public (US gov) ownership. Thought somebody might call him a Socialist, not a drunk. Sheesh, you guys are relentless. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Bobert Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:23 PM How many planes did Grant crash???...lol... But really, by the time Grant took over for McClellan the South was running out of bullets, shoes, food and men to fight so lets not elevate Grant to some Menza general... He wasn't... He was just a drunk who found himself in the right place at the right time... Lord does look after drunks, you know... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: GUEST,Peace Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:15 PM Thread #114321 Message #2439558 Posted By: GUEST 13-Sep-08 - 08:07 PM Thread Name: BS: Question on McCain's academy record Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
Grant?
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:37 PM Yeah, I see it. ;-D I figured you were probably being humorous. It's Chongo's academic and experiential record that people really need to look into seriously before casting their vote in November. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: EBarnacle Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:37 PM I seem to recall that the last academy [USMA] graduate who was that low in his class and became president was Grant. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: pdq Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:29 PM I am fully aware of the humor in his post and I know about Harper, too. Now, did you see the humor in my post? The idea that Herbert Hoover and Calvin Collidge may well have been the most intelligent presidents in US history? Now that is both true and hilarious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:23 PM It's a form of Canadian humour, pdq. We merely pretend to be offended over stuff like that, and when we do so, it's strictly for laughs. (Steven Harper is the Prime Minister of Canada, and Peace can't stand him...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: pdq Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:02 PM Mine was a "politics-neutral" post. That probably is the same as "boring" but it shouldn't offend anybody. However, just imagine that (not saying it is, but it could be true) that the most brilliant intellects to reside in the White House were Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: Peace Date: 13 Sep 08 - 06:53 PM Oh, yeah? WELL, WE have Harper. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record From: pdq Date: 13 Sep 08 - 06:37 PM List of presidents by date who were exceptionally bright (= high IQ): (last century): John Adams James Madison Thomas Jefferson Abraham Lincoln (20th Century) Teddy Rooseveldt William H. Taft Woodrow Wilson Calvin Coolidge Herbert Hoover, Franklin Rooseveldt Dwight Eisenhower Richard Nixon George H. W. Bush Bill Clinton. |
