BS: Lord Nelson's flagship

Subject: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 07:30 AM

I read in the paper yesterday that the Navy is thinking about selling Lord Nelson's ship which is based in Portsmouth,UK.Its costing the navy to much money to keep it so the navy wants to sell it to a charity like the one the Mary Rose has or a wealthy business person.
What do you think?.

Scooby

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: bubblyrat
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:08 PM

I think that they should offer it to France first, or possibly jointly to France & Spain.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: GUEST,HMS Victory
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:10 PM

The navy will not sell me.I earn them alot of coinage during a year.

HMS V ICTORY

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:18 PM

Is she able to go to sea if she is why dont they use her as a tall ship?.Just an idea.


Scooby

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Schantieman
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:43 PM

That'd be nice, but sadly out of the question. She's been in dry dock for 40 years or more and is now made largely of fibreglass.

Steve
(currently about 1/4M from the VICTORY on Whale Island

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: kendall
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:46 PM

I've posted three time to this thread and it won't appear!

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:48 PM

Thanks for that Shantieman,i did not realisehow she wasn't sea worthie.

Scooby

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Schantieman
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:49 PM

Well - it did that time......but didn't tell us a great deal.....?

S

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 04:00 PM

Selling HMS Victory to the highest bidder does provoke a range of curious outcomes, some of which exceed my capacity to describe in three dimensions:

HMS Victory à la Kentucky Fried Chicken

HMS Victory à la Rupert Murdock

HMS Victory à la Britney Spears

Sometimes a better alternative is to tow the old ship out to sea and sink it, to join her old sisters.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 04:04 PM

Maybe O.J. Simpson could buy the Victory and turn it into a floating sports bar.....

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Schantieman
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 04:18 PM

I can't imagine her anywhere but Portsmouth. That was her home port and it's where Nelson left in Sep 1805 to join her off Gibraltar. And it fits in with the WARRIOR and MARY ROSE and the RN Museum.

If the RN wouldn't keep her on I'm sure a trust somewhere - or a museum - would be set up. They have spent LOADS on renovating her and converting a gallery of the RN Museum into the VICTORY Gallery.....for the bicentenary of Trafalgar in 2005. AND it's the flagship of CINCNAVHOME.   And a BIG tourist attraction that earns a reasonable income.   AND the oldest commissioned ship in the WORLD.

Decommissioning her, still less sinking her, is UNTHINKABLE!

S

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:02 PM

I have Lord Nelson's flagship scrimshawed on a whale tooth.

And the large Heller model I never built.

Privatize that boat?

It would make a great casino   ;< {

I think not.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: kendall
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:09 PM

Sell HMS Victory? Blasphemy!

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:40 PM

Schantieman-

Selling her off is really an awful idea but maybe people need to envision that atrocity so they can work out a better solution.

Victory survived the bombing of Portsmouth Harbour in both World Wars 1 and 2. It would a pity if apathy sank her now.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:46 PM

It's blasphemy all right. I was using dark humor with my suggestion about O.J. turning the great ship into a sports bar. I would suggest to all my British friends that they raise sheer bloody hell about this and make sure the Victory remains protected and preserved.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Rumncoke
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 06:21 PM

I hope some suitable solution can be found - but I'd rather see her burnt to ashes than turned into some theme park type exhibit.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Greg B
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 06:45 PM

Maybe the Irish will have her...

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: kendall
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 07:53 PM

..for I'd rather beach her on the Skerry rocks
Haul away my laddie oh
Than to see her torched in the breaker's dock
Haul away my laddie oh... (The Final Trawl by Archie Fisher)

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 08:07 PM

Well New Labour ditched Socialism in 1997 , so ditching an Icon of Briains Historic Past should be dead easy for them !

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 08:22 PM

Well, England does have a tradition of hauling its old war relics out to sea, and sinking them. There's the case of the Implacable, ex-Duguay-Tourin in 1949, last survivor of the French fleet which fought at Trafalgar, sunk in deep waters to save the cost of further preservation. Evidently she didn't go down without a fight; she broke her tow-line and sank in her own good time.

Here's a link to a poem that C. Fox Smith composed in her honor: click here for poem

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 01:01 AM

Ok - slight thread drift...
Old boat given new lease on life

but it's one of the oldest surviving craft in Australia.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 03:12 AM

We're very good at destroying our history in the UK.

Darwin's ship rotted unnoticed.
Vandals torched the the Cutty Sark (although her restoration proceeds now)
The battle to save the Medway Queen (paddlewheel pleasure cruiser who went to Dunkirk) will I think be lost eventually.

And so on.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 04:10 AM

They have already done it once! I am sure they can do it again. Arthur Conan Doyle wrote a poem about it to which my mate Ged has put some music see the words here.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 04:14 AM

"Privatize that boat"

Boat? BOAT? Blasphemy - she's a SHIP.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: mandotim
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 05:32 AM

Re Dave Polshaw (above); Tina Taylor (muppitz) has also set that poem to music on her album ;The Unabridged Version' see here
Tim

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: HuwG
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 06:20 AM

The British armed forces have instituted arrangements in recent years whereby they lease hardware from the manufacturers rather than purchase it outright. This has been done with the army's Challenger 2 tanks, and the Royal Navy's OPV(H) patrol craft, for example.

I'm sure that there are all sorts of safeguards so that it is impossible for an overseas buyer to snap up a majority of shares in Firth Vickers and say to the army, "The next time you go to war in the Gulf, your armoured regiments go on foot."

Somebody might apply this arrangment so that some organisation such as Wetherspoon's could acquire the "Victory" and put it all over their publicity blurb, while restrictive covenants prevented them altering the structure of the ship, or changing its current use, or hanging unsightly advertising hoardings from the yards.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:03 AM

Just in case, if you have never done so, book a weekend in Pompy.
Take the guided tour on Vitory, and also the submarine at the old Dolphin (Diesel and shale}, Mary Rose, Warrior, dockyard boat trip,
fortifications, Southsea memorial, and many etc..

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:17 AM

(HMS Dolphin has reverted to its original name, Fort Blockhouse.
I spent a night in there last year in a room with a harbour view.)

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:19 AM

And go up the Spinnaker Tower. Stoo-o-o-o-o-o-pendous views.
Followed by paella and a pint at The Stll & West. :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:20 AM

Aye, tear her battered ensign down,
Long has it waved on high...

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 03:08 PM

I was wondering that the Royal Navy realeased the news of there sell at the weekend so there be not so much publicity ie news reports,even so newspapers did report the sad news.
Do you think i am right?.



Scooby

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Schantieman
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 04:29 PM

There's (unsuprisingly) a big article about it in The (Portsmouth) News
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/Descendant-of-famous-flagship-captain.4490700.jp

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 04:44 PM

Thanks for the thread i have just read the item,it was very interesting.Just hope it won't be invane.


Scooby

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Raedwulf
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 06:14 PM

"We're very good at destroying our history in the UK."

Be fair, Richard, we're also very good at preserving it. The trouble is, we have such a *lot* of it!

As to mostly fibreglass, I dunno about that, but it's a long, long time since she's been seaworthy. I can't believe anyone actually thought she might be. She is over 200 years old, bless 'er! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 06:19 PM

Steve-

Nice to know that one of Admiral Hardy's descendants has the right stuff.

I do find it hard to believe that the Royal Navy would sell the ship to any private entrepreneur or even non-profit organization. Whatever committee in the Admiralty is recommending such action should be publicly shamed.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Dead Horse
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:40 PM

Change her name to "Defeat", THEN see if anyone'll buy her! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:45 PM

From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 03:12 AM

We're very good at destroying our history in the UK.

Darwin's ship rotted unnoticed.

You mean it didn't evolve into a luxury yacht??!!??..Well, hot damn!...there's all the proof you need!

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Greg B
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:09 PM

The USS Constitution is fully seaworthy (unlike the HMS Victory) and
in commission (like the HMS Victory). She's undergoing yet another
periodic restoration. There's no excuse for letting such treasures
go.

Perhaps they'll send 'Old Ironsides' to the Persian Gulf one
day.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: EBarnacle
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 12:28 AM

At least a Wooden Ship cannot set off magnetic mines.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: nager
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 02:56 AM

I have visited HMS Victory on at least three occasions - the last time about six years ago and the first time when I was a child. The ship is part of major martime history site in Portsmouth UK. The remains of the Mary Rose were there when I last visited plus the amazing HMS Warrior (1860). There is also a museum etc and it is a truly historic complex on the harbour as part of the Royal Navy dockyards. Importantly it has not been commercialised as I am sure it would if prvately owned. Everything is in "tip top " shape and the vessels and the relics are treated with true dignity. Let's keep it that way. A couple of retiring politicians pensions would probably be enough to finance any shortfall in revenue from people paying to visit the place.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: bubblyrat
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 10:45 AM

Well, we all get what we deserve eventually. The Labour Party have systematically tried to dismantle and destroy the Royal Navy since 1964-the dark days of Harold Wilson and Denis Healey.How on EARTH a card-carrying member of the British Communist Party EVER got to be our Defence Minister, I have never figured out, but he( Healey) had a wonderful time cancelling numerous defence projects,scrapping aircraft-carriers and generally doing just what the Soviets wanted !! And Yes!! The Labour Party are STILL DOING IT !! And people out there, at every election since, are STILL voting for them. It's beyond reason and comprehension. So perhaps it would be best,after all, if HMS Victory WERE to quietly fade away, like the once-proud navy it so proudly symbolised has.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:30 AM

And if you recollect, bubblyrat, the Soviet Union did not invade us after all, so he was right, wasn't he?

If you compare the actual harm done to country and society by authotritarian lunatics lke Thatcher to that done by all Labour governments put together you should, if you were not too blind and bigoted to see, appreciate that the only way forward to a civilised society is well to the left of any party we have in parliament at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 12:28 PM

If memory serves me correctly it's the guns on HMS Victory that are glass-fibre. In a pub tucked out of the way in wilds of Wiltshire I once had a chat with the man responsible for searching out trees and reserving them for repairs to HMS Victory. When the conversation got to golf (Ryder Cup) he asked what club I was a member of, when I told him and he held up a finger and said, "Ahh", as he dived into his little book. After turning up what he was looking for he told me, "You've got five mature oak trees down the length of the thirteenth fairway. They must be a complete and utter nuisance but you can't do anything about them, they have all been reserved for Victory since the early 1930's and according to my book they're still there."

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Schantieman
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 01:33 PM

Laugh out Loud!
(so good it was worth typing it out in full)

Well, that IS good to know!

And PLEASE can we avoid the political thread creep I've just noticed above?   Otherwise I shall be forced to De-Trace this thread.

S

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 01:34 PM

What an interesting tale Teribus.They will not get used now will they.


Scooby

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Schantieman
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 01:52 PM

I bloody well hope they will be!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 03:28 PM

Well what can we do to save HMS Victory from decommission.

Scooby.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 07:56 PM

Scooby-

Good question, and there are even a few fans of HMS Victory on this side of the great pond who would chip in. And, yes, I paid a visit to this great ship about eight years ago, serenaded her with my concertina.

I was favorably impressed with everything except the cafeteria. I still have my commemorative hard tack from that visit.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Rumncoke
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 09:28 PM

I love walkiing around the historic places in Portsmouth and Southsea.

Being 5ft 4 inches tall and wearing flat shoes, I can walk through the doorways etc without having to duck. True I can feel my hair touching, but it drives the guides into fits.

I used to be exactly average height, but somewhere along the way I became a little old lady.

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:27 AM

While waiting for a course when I was in the navy I was sent to Victory Barracks in Portsmouth and for two months I was a VIP guide on HMS Victory, in all that time I only every showed one VIP round - Britt Ekland who was down in Portsmouth to officiate at HMS Vernon's Open Day.

Subject: RE: BS: Lord Nelson's flagship
From: Schantieman
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:35 PM

Rumncoke:

knock knock