Political Fallout At House Concert

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: GUEST,stallion
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:37 AM

Good thread to bring up again, I remember doing a floor spot at York university folk club in 1972, hardly a hotspot of trouble, the main act were an "Irish" band (none had discernable irish accents) and sang a lot of Irish rebel songs, I decided to sing some recruiting songs as a bit of a balance, didn't go down well, mainly orchestrated by the pseudo irish band. Being brought up a catholic and having been tought by 90% Irish teachers and being immersed in the Clancy brothers songs for many years I was well aquainted if not word perfect on their songs and i wasn't making a political statement with mine just singing different songs. I think this reminds me of the time I got in the wrong queue at the day clinic, I was going in to give a blood sample and I did think it rather odd that everyone else in the queue were in for vasectomys, anyway, by the time I had finished telling them my friends vasectomy stories the queue had dropped from 22 to 6, and one guy who stayed only stayed because I had stayed! I got in the right queue and he was dragged into theatre screaming and kicking. point is they were the wrong people in the wrong place and were a tad rude which reflects badly on them. money back, I don't think so , caveat emptor

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: SharonA
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 03:24 PM

Refreshing this thread because I'd never read the latter half of it, after I posted, and missed the response by Greg of Magpie and the details of the incident posted by Rabbi Sol. Wow, I too am impressed that Magpie issued a refund to the two women, especially since the women had stood up and made a scene during the performance of a song, some 5 feet away from the performers, at a house concert where they would certainly have been obstructing the view of other audience members and interrupting others' enjoyment of the performance. (No common decency, as Sol said.)

I'm even more impressed that apparently Magpie kept on singing their song while the women were creating their scene. Consummate professionals!!!

I also want to relate what I did at a local house concert when I was displeased with the performance: I'd gone to hear a performer whose name escapes me, but who was billed as having an act in which he could make up a song on the spot about anything suggested to him by the audience. Neither the house concert hosts' publicity nor the singer's website mentioned that he did this by parodying popular songs. I hate parodies. I especially hate poorly-done parodies, and that's what this guy was performing. After listening to several of these, I was feeling increasingly annoyed that I'd paid my money to do so and that the guy's songs had been misrepresented as original music.

My solution? When the guy asked the audience once again to tell him what they were thinking so that he could make up a song about it, and when no one else responded, I piped up and said, "I hate parodies." Everyone had a good laugh at that, and the guy responded, "You're at the wrongggg concert!" I said, "I'm afraid I am!" More laughter followed, and then the guy probed a bit to find out more about me, and sang his Sharon Hates Parodies song-on-the-spot! So, both he and I turned a negative into a positive by working my "protest" into the act! I felt a little better afterward about parting with my 15 dollars -- I had been entertained after all. Again, I give credit to the performer for his professionalism.

Sharon

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:11 PM

Bill D:

Thanks for the instructions. I've managed to repost most times that my original effort didn't "take" ~ I always check, and I do experience this problem mayby 5-10% of the time.

But I have to make several tries by trial-and-error each time, and then when I finally succeed, I don't remember exactly what I did differently and so hadn't yet learned exactly what works and what doesn't.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:05 PM

Art, and others, disappearing posts are not uncommon, but they are almost NEVER the result of censorship.

I have it happen now & then, too.. I try to always LOOK to see if the thread I posted to goes to the top...if not, I hit 'back' in my browser. Usually, your post is still there like you typed it. There can be a problem with cache updates or something..so.... go to your post, copy it...then hit 'reload' in your browser..NOT 'refresh' in Mudcat...go to the thread again and paste your post back in. This time it WILL take.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: meself
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:48 PM

That last post of mine was not directed at Greg B in particular - we cross-posted ... Perhaps I should apologize; I seem to have been raised with different values than some, at least in regard to elderly - I mean, old biddies.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Art Thieme
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:42 PM

Folks, I posted to this thread twice. Both are gone now. Nothing I said was inflammatory or even strident or argumentative in any way. I only want to say what great singers Terri and Greg are---and how my favorite song of all of theirs is the one concerning "The Diggers"

There, I said it again.

But what black hole was I lost in?

Art

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: meself
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:37 PM

Grow up.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Greg B
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:33 PM

I think I just have a knee-jerk reaction against anyone who's seen
pushing one of those oversize shopping carts which block the aisles,
turn wide, frequently contain one or two squalling brats, and
generally take up more room in the aisles then necessary by any
stretch of the imagination.

Then again, the do use little kids for their best function---
bumpers.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:13 PM

Maybe she was afraid she would die before she got to the front of the line. I had one of those yesterday. I collected a shopping cart that was left in the middle of the parking lot (one with a little car built in for kids). As I walked to the door a woman tried to cut me off but the car was in the way. She was all huffy like I was somehow wrong just for living. Inside I put the cart on the side and got a regular one. She was still huffing at me. Go figure.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:51 PM

"Was this a planned hissy fit?"

Interesting question! Maybe the characters in this story with the real political agenda were not the performers, but the innocent-looking little old ladies...

I thought of those two earlier today, when I spent an hour or so at the temporary Allstate Insurance Claim Center set up in the parking lot of the Lowe's store near my job. I parked, walked over to where people were standing on line, took my place, and a minute or so later a little old lady with a cane arrived and stepped right in front of me.

I didn't even open my mouth before she started in justifying her behavior. (I did have enough time to give her a questioning look.) According to her, I had taken her spot in the queue by "rushing ahead" of her; in other words, as soon as she could see the end of the line, that end-of-the-line position was, in her mind, rightfully hers. The fact that I was approching from a different direction and got there first was seen as an underhanded, cheating move on my part. It was obvious from her mean, accusing tone of voice that she genuinely considered herself to have been wronged.

Of course, I let her take the place in front of me ~ only cost me two or three minutes, in the end. She was at least seventy yeas old, about four and a half feet tall, and hobbling on a sprained ankle. She was certainly worthy of sympathy, but people got less and less willing to extend any to her as she proceeded to complain loudly and incessantly, and to try to push ahead, at every step of the process.

Like most of the folks filing claims today, I was asking only for compensation for evacuation expenses, which were being paid without regard to the normal deductable. (People who had sustained damage to their houses had already, for the most part, begun the insurance-claim process.) I was pretty satisfied with my payment; it did not cover my lost income for a week, but at least it paid for our lodging and gasoline, plus a per-diem-type meal allowance.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Greg B
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:04 PM

I'd send 'em a check and say "of course, should you choose to cash
this, I reserve the right to put together a song and some stage patter
about two biddies who interrupted our set by stomping out."

They get forty bucks back, which will soon be spent.

You get additions to your material which will last forever.

And if you're REALLY lucky, they'll overhear their "story" at
a Festival at which they came to hear someone else.

The NJ Folk project has a good idea; they charge a certain amount
at the door which goes to the cost of keeping the lights on and paying
the main performer the contracted amount. At the end of the evening,
they put out a bucket for donations, ALL of which go to the main
performer. (The opening act is, unfortunately, left out of this.)

So, in this sort of situation the biddies could have been told "The
ticket price paid for the seats which are yours for the night whether
or not you choose to use them for the whole night. But you don't
have to supplement the amount you paid if you choose not to."

N.B.: I'm *not* by any means endorsing that venue's booking policies
in general or really at all, but that part of the system is good.
Their refusal to comply with AFM contract requirements, however is
highly un-good!

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 10:35 AM

We used to have a legal firm around here called Crooker & Worry.

They were closed down for embezzling trust funds, I believe.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:37 AM

There are also the fictitious Sue Grabbit & Runne, and the real Argue & Phibbs

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:12 PM

There I go with typos---Nill Hahn---perhaps I am.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:11 PM

I doubt that Deceivum Cheatum and Billum would approve of that 1/2 price settlement.

They would opt for a copy of the postings here along with a note asking them to do that at a large venue and see how effective they are. Should that work--get all the money back.

Once, of course, they got past the security people --which at a house concert is the host. I doubt he or she packs anything more than a serving tray

Nill Hahn

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:35 AM

Or use our own Mudcat firm:
LANE, FIELDING, PATTERSON,& SWAN
**WAYLAND******TORONTO******BREMEN******OAKLAND**
    Layabouts-At-Large And For Hire

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Snuffy
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:10 AM

Why not try Wright Hassall Solicitors in Leamington Spa. I hear they can make things difficult for your adversaries!

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:19 AM

Ah! those old chestnuts.......... Cheatum Decievum and Billum -

successors to Dewie, Cheatham, & Howe (incorporating Harman A. Legg)

I like the idea of sending this whole thread with the money back offer. But I feel the Half-Refund would be more instructive. But add this thread anyway.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:26 AM

At Falcon Ridge, with many stages and workshops going on at the same time, one can probably pick and choose which events they wish to attend. They were probably lucky enough to catch all the non-controversial performers in the various time slots.

SOL

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 08:35 PM

So they found out about the concert at Falcon Ridge? I look at the performer list at Falcon Ridge this year and wonder how any reasonably intelligent person could possibly NOT expect politics at folk music events.

Was this a planned hissy fit?

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 08:15 PM

I don't see how this is a free speech issue. I think it is a market issue and I don't think they had to be refunded their money. Free speech says usually you can say it. It doesn't mean anyone has to listen. It also does not mean they have to pay for the privilege. mg

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:20 PM

This has surely been a long and instructive thread in many respects---Greg's comments being, to me, the most well thought out and presented. Not to denigrate others.

The fact that they are refunding the money to the patrons is surely a generous act on their part. One, I feel, is totally unnecessary and ill advised but, surely, within their perogative. Sol is the purveyor of this program (aka producer/promoter). Magpie is the artist and this is its living. Sol worries about Small Claims court---won't happen and if it did it would be all to the good.

Still on the business aspect. Think a larger venue. Carnegie Hall or such---I have attended Pete Seeger, Honey in The Rock, etc; there and I saw a few people over the years walk out. One concert especially---a benefit for Angela Davis. No one asked or would have gotten their money back. You purchased a ticket--you got it--period. By the way--the Angela Davis thing. I cannot say that I faulted those folks who left since it was not billed as a benefit for her legal bills.

How about an analogy? The U S Open Tennis matches. You go there for the sport and find some people waving their Serbian flags (parents of one of the players) and it is a prominent thing on TV. Think you will get a refund because they are presenting their political views?

Aside from the business aspect of all this---house concerts vis a vis large venues. That someone has--to use the Yiddish expression--"Chutzpah" to interrupt a performance for a refund is totally unnaceptable. First, I find it hard to put myself in the place of such boors who cannot wait for an intermission to leave in a respectful manner. A larger venue would have had security oust them. That said, it seems to me that the people embarrassed themselves even more and one has to wonder how they could have such "Chutzpah" and still feel any self respect.

As to the point of these two patrons being upset about the political content one has to wonder how it is that they were attendees at Falcon Ridge. Not that the venue is a political hotbed, but, rather, not the kind of place one would expect them to find of interest.

While I do believe that if an event is to be politicized it should so be advertised. On the other hand at a "folk" concert it must be expected that some of the songs will be of some sort of political nature---even traditional ones. Unlike the pap of pop "folk" always had and still does have more to say to us. Especially those of us who will listen and not just nod our heads to Top 40. Or is smash our heads now with the new material---make me old?---Get off my lawn?

As to Magpie. While some artists who I also admire can be "right on" and, perhaps, upset some folks (i.e. Roy Zimmerman, The Foremen, and, yes, Tom Paxton) Magpie has always been subtle and poetic in their musical commentary when it touched topical issues.

It has been my honor and privilige to know them and to respect their musical talents and their humanity.

If, SOL, you need an attorney for the non-event of Small Claims may I recommend the firm that represents me----Cheatum Decievum and Billum

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: GUEST,Don Firth (computer, etc.)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:49 PM

Pots. Kettles.

"Black, black, black is the color of. . . ."
                               --John Jacob Niles

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Jayto
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:16 PM

Stick to your guns man. THEY WOULD NOT GET A CENT OUT OF ME!! We still have free speech here you know (at least for the moment). I do not normally get political at my gigs. Not because I don't have strong opinions (Anyone that knows me knows that for a fact) but because I get lost in music. When I enter the musical realm it is all emotion. Some of my favorite artists are very vocal about thier opinions. I respect it even though I don't always agree. When I disagree though I do not expect them to financially compensate me for the internal anger that is sometimes instigated by their opinion. That is basically what happened here. Let them take you to small claims court. That is a battle worth fighting.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: pdq
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:03 PM

Rude and abusive people suck.

They are insecure and cannot stand the slightest affront to their beliefs.

I will post when I want and where I want. Call it a protest.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: curmudgeon
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:42 PM

"Sticking your politics in somebdy else's face is just plain rude. "

And what are you doing with that comment?

Better get back to BS where you belong. Woody and Utah and Ewan are still alive and well in the music threads.

What is it about the phrase, "This machine kills Fascists" that you don't get?

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: pdq
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:11 PM

Sticking your politics in somebdy else's face is just plain rude. No Class.

Personal attacks are just the same and come from the same people.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:57 PM

That would be why you all yourself $ongwriter not song writer, I suppose. It is of course the privilege of the amateur but I find such transparent venality rather lacking in artisic integrity.

PDQ, of coure you so wish. You do not want your distasteful fellow travellers exposed.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:30 PM

I think they were just shoppers and didn't like the product. They should have waited until the song was over though. Unless it was such that they felt they could not stay and condone it. Then they were protestors.g mg

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: pdq
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:56 PM

Perfect statement there, $ongWriter. Now, perhaps this contentious thread can be closed? Just hoping.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: $ongWriter
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:46 PM

Hello, just found this site..it's my first post. I would have given them their money back just to save face for the club. People who are pissed will tell at least 10 people about their experience and with you not there to defend your side guess which side gets told. Personally I don't look to entertainers for their political views. The Eagles are a great example, I've always loved their music up until this last CD. It is the worst piece of trash that I've ever paid good money for. Where's Hotel California or Tequila Sunrise. Bruce Springsteen and the Dixie Chicks are in the same boat. Just shut up and sing...the only time someone should spout their political view as an entertainer is when they are at a political function such as one of the conventions or a local political rally. Then I think it's fine....just my opinion....

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:27 PM

well, *grin" I see it was resolved 'almost' as I suggested..

"I'd have offered to pass their names to Magpie....and I 'think', that if I were in Greg & Terry's position, I'd have sent them back half of it, just to make a point..."

Greg & Terry are even more generous than me!

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:46 PM

Emma B: You wrote:

"'when the music started to turn political this lady and her friend got up' - quote from the original post

How this this metamorphosize into the perjorative
'those two old birds'? "

Well, your position seems to be very much in the minority among those posted here, but that should not impact its potential relevance. Since I'm the person whose choice of words you question, I feel constrained to answer.

As I read the phrase "as soon as the music started to turn political," it is clear that the two women interrupted the show and walked up to Sol while the performers were singing. That alone would seem to earn them a perjorative reference.

And, as far as my phraseology "those two old birds" is concerned, I think that it is only very mildly perjorative. Believe me, I could have written a lot worse, and almost did! (My first draft featured a different word beginning with "b.")

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:13 PM

Why were two people with a mental age of eight at a folk concert in the first place?

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:51 PM

It was neither a blacklist or a boycott, it was a simple act of protest.   If it were a boycott, the idea would be that the women protest until there was a change made in the performers and then they would go back. The idea of the grape or lettuce boycott was not to say we will never eat those items again, just that we will not support until changes are made.

Again, my use of the term "blacklisting" earlier in this discussion had nothing to do with this particular incident with Magpie - I was attempting to share a story that happened to involve blacklisting, but that was not the point of comparison.

I'm glad it was resolved. Neither Magpie or Sol are giving in to pressure or admitting any guilt - they have none. The women were wrong in their reasoning when they described it as "hateful", but the eventual resolution is a business decision that has long range plans and will allow performers like Magpie to continue have a stage where they can share their music and opinion.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:11 PM

Sol-

Given that your experience triggered this discussion, I'm pleased that you posted your reaction. I was also pleased to hear from Magpie to gain the performers' perspective, and I'm impressed but not surprised that they are endeavoring to arrange a refund for the offended (and offensive) two.

There also are some lessons to be learned about what "blacklisting" is or isn't. Mick, Ron, and Jeri seem to have nailed that one right. "Blacklisting" is negatively characterizing performers, discriminating against them on the basis of political criteria, and encouraging those who would consider booking them not to. "Blacklisting" is not something that the audience or potential audience members do; action from them might better be described as a "boycott," refraining from having any dealing with said performer or performers.

My family is intimately familiar with the meaning and impact of "blacklisting" given the experience that Richard Dyer-Bennet underwent in the 1950's, in part because Burl Ives identified him at a public hearing as a Communist sympathizer. Dyer-Bennet continued to perform (although at a much reduced level) and teach but never achieved the commercial success that he might have been expected to have achieved.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 09:03 AM

There are some who will be offended simply hearing a view different from their own. There are obviously some who will be offended simply discovering a person has a different view from theirs, even if the person doesn't perform any political material.

Hopefully, they will steer clear of the venue or at least leave graciously.

The rudeness probably is more of a 'this day and age' thing. People are used to TVs and stereos and loud live music that they can and must shout over and those performers are not able to hear them.

I'm looking at the line-up from Falcon Ridge this year, and I figure these women must have had their elbows in their ears or something. Probably just talked through the performances. Not expecting political content in folk music can't possibly be a valid excuse.

I don't like the fact that these tightly-sphinctered wonders got their money back, but I really respect Magpie for being better than they had to be. Maybe this is just another form of pacifism and the two women will think about common human decency.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 08:29 AM

I doubt it Barbara - IMO anyone ignorant enough to cause that sort of disruption has no chance of learning anything different. I hope that they have been put off folk for good!

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 08:09 AM

Magpie should send a copy of this thread with the refund check. Maybe the two women will learn something.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:51 AM

Ballance is not a given.

But in a court of law, lack of it has to be proven.

And for that the evidence has to be collected, from whoever was there.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:14 AM

e-mail the youtube of these guys to Sarah Palin, try and get a quote - would Sarah have walked?

The papers are sick of trying to guess what panties she wears - she is SO last week! she will thank you for the break - you'll be on her Xmas card list!

The papers and TV stations(don't forget to e-mail them!)are hungry for stuff like this. I can smell the blood in the water - go for it!

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:00 AM

send them the money back.

Make a press release.

'Republicans storm out of folk concert'

E-mail it round everywhere, along with a picture of the band. rell tem you're dong it.

Get a quote from them, quote from the letter, you put in a quote - something about the spirit of woody guthrie lives on in tese guys.

its an election story - it will fly - you will get a lot of publicity for you concerts. No such thing as bad publicity!

Okay that's my idea, but then I've been a hustler a long time..

best wishes

al

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:28 AM

"The world is full of malcontents with very thin skins. Let them bugger off, who cares?"
Bingo!

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:05 AM

Jed,
I'm reminded of my old friend who was a Latino fireman in Chicago. He and his wife named their first born, a son, Jose. The next child, also a son, they named Hose B.

I told that joke before I sang Woody's "Deportees" once----and 6 people walked out. But six more soon filled their seats. Such is life. There is no better way to polarize an audience, and figure out who is who.

Terry and Greg are wonderful singers. I bet it's been 25 years since I last ran into them. It's wonderful to "hear their voices" in this thread. My favorite of theirs has always been the song that I always called simply "The Diggers."

All the best to you two---and everyone else to boot.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Jim Lad
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:05 PM

Sounds to me like you got your political message out then.
They were right.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 10:55 PM

OK folks. I thank everyone for the feedback. I think that this was one of the most informative and well thought out threads on Mudcat.

Some ask why I did not return to this thread sooner. It is because I wanted to hear YOUR opinions this matter which I value very much.
At one point the posts were coming in faster than I could read them so I could not have responded sooner even if I wanted to.

When you have an audience of 32 people in your living room and only 2 decide to make a spectacle of themselves, I think that you are doing something right. Among those who totally enjoyed the show and heartily applauded the performers were some folks whom I know to be diehard Republicans and supporters of our present policy in Iraq. In fact one of them was given an award as the GOP volunteer of the year for the entire state of NJ and to hear her heartily singing along with Greg & Terry to the chorus of "Haul Them All Off To Jail" was indeed a sight to behold. At the end of the performance Magpie was given a standing ovation and were brought back out to do an encore.

The 2 ladies that walked out were first timers who had picked up my flyer at the Falcon Ridge Folk Festival. They are not regulars and I do not expect to ever see them again. I was sitting up front, less than 5 feet from the performers when they walked up to me in the middle of a song and asked for their money back. They lacked any modicum of common decency whatsoever.

As far as the resolution of the matter goes, Greg & Terry graciously took the matter out of my hands and will be sending these ladies a refund, not because they deserved it but because they felt bad for the aggravation that I was going through as a result of this incident. Greg & Terry are truly great human beings as well as fantastic performers. They will always be welcome back at the Borderline and we are planning to rebook them again at a future date down the road.

As for me, I will never tell a performer who appears at my venue what they can or can not play & sing. I will definitely not back down when faced with one or two mal-contents who want to spoil it for everyone else.

I am having Christine Lavin for my next show on November 23rd and you know that nobody is going to tell Christine what she can or can not sing. If she wants to sing "The Liar Sleeps Tonight" she has my full blessings to do so. By then we will already know who our next President will be and tempers will not be so hot, unless this election also ends up as a 5 to 4 Supreme Court decision.

I thank all those who participated in this thread for the education that you have given me.

SOL

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: kendall
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 02:37 PM

My ex wife and I took a trip to St. Maartin, and among other things, we took a bus tour around the island. One of the stops was a nude beach. As we were walking down to the beach with our group, another group was coming up off the beach. One of the women in that group was raving about the nasty things she saw, and assuring everyone within earshot that she didn't engage in such behavior, and hated porn too! After they all cleared off, our driver said,. "I wonder what she expected to see on a nude beach"?

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: Emma B
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 02:31 PM

'when the music started to turn political this lady and her friend got up' - quote from the original post

How this this metamorphosize into the perjorative
'those two old birds'?

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 02:23 PM

Whether the performance was political or controversial in any way, these two women came to someone's private home, listened only briefly, and then made a scene in the middle of the first set, demanding their money back. I would have firmly told them "No refunds, sorry, you're welcome to leave" and shown them the door. Regardless of their ideology, rude people like that are not welcome. If they had been reasonable and waited until the intermission to discuss their sensitivities with the performers, they might have warranted different treatment, and they might have even garnered some sympathy. Bah, humbug...

Too true Barbara.

I put forward my view, further down in this thread, on the basis that these persons showed no manners whatsoever in making their objections known - they approached the organiser whilst the concert was underway, thus spoiling his enjoyment and, most likely, that of the people nearest to him. Now, I consider that to be a totally selfish and ignorant act and, for that reason, would make it clear that they were no longer welcome in my home.

Subject: RE: Political Fallout At House Concert
From: PoppaGator
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 02:21 PM

"My reaction would be to dislike the performer for lecturing me."

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't believe the performers were taken to task for "lecturing," but rather for the lyrical content of their songs. Tough luck if someone didn't like it.

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SINS: thanks for the lyrics and composer/recording-artists names for "Lee Harvey..."; however, I didn't recognize either "Bennison/Cotton" or "T.Texas Edwards and the Sickoids."

Upoon further consideration, I realized that I had heard this amusing number from another wacky group of Texans, the Asylum Street Spankers.

I wonder how those two old birds would have reacted to a Spankers show. If the political stuff didn't chase them home first, I'm sure they would be absolutely horrified by Christina Mars' rendition of "Shave 'Em Dry."