Tech: Piano Harp Question

Subject: Tech: Piano Inside Harp Question
From: olddude
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:23 PM

Ok my buddie Garry and I tore apart the broken piano in my basement. It is an upright grand piano made in Boston circa 1880. The harp inside is huge and heavy. Since brass scrap is selling at 1.60 a pound, I first thought was brass wow off to the scrap yard, nope painted yellow. So what did they make the harps out of, is it bronze or some cast metal. By the way, incredible mahogany in that old girl. Not veneer it is solid, going to try and make something like a dulcimer. But what is the harp normally made of?

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: olddude
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 10:20 PM

by the way, if anyone wants the ivory from the keys just PM me and I will try to get it off for you. some is in good shape others not so good

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 10:40 PM

Don't try sending the ivory across any borders.
The mahogany sounds great. I'd sit on that for a while.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 02:39 AM

The metal frame was usually cast iron.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 02:40 AM

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano#Construction

The plate, or metal frame, of a piano is usually made of cast iron. It is advantageous for the plate to be quite massive. Since the strings are attached to the plate at one end, any vibrations transmitted to the plate will result in loss of energy to the desired (efficient) channel of sound transmission, namely the bridge and the soundboard. Some manufacturers now use cast steel in their plates, for greater strength. The casting of the plate is a delicate art, since the dimensions are crucial and the iron shrinks by about one percent during cooling.

The inclusion in a piano of an extremely large piece of metal is potentially an aesthetic handicap, which piano makers overcome by polishing, painting and decorating the plate. Plates often include the manufacturer's ornamental medallion and can be strikingly attractive. In an effort to make pianos lighter, Alcoa worked with Winter and Company piano manufacturers to make pianos using an aluminum plate during the 1940s. The use of aluminum for piano plates, however, did not become widely accepted and was discontinued.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:29 AM

The iron frame inside a piano isn't a harp, although a famous scene at A Day at the Races would suggest otherwise.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: sian, west wales
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:08 AM

A harper friend of mine says (and apparently it's a common saying) that a piano is just a harp in a coffin.

sian

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: olddude
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 02:46 PM

Just received a PM someone wants the ivory and it is in the US so no worry about borders. I will do my best to not break it when I remove it. Does anyone know an easy way to get it off the keys?

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: Jim Lad
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:32 PM

I'd throw her some peanuts.

Ask and you shall receive!

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: Jim Lad
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:33 PM

Or should that be "Him"?

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST,Peter Sumner
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 11:20 AM

Just a point of detail...the 'frame' as it is called in UK...or 'plate' as it is sometimes called on this side of the pond is sometimes referred to as the 'harp'....for obvious reasons...
The term is commonly used in piano dealerships and amongst technicians.

They often make for a good yacht mooring, but can break if dropped...

:-)

Peter Sumner
Piano technician
Redwood City
California

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: Escapee
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 03:48 AM

Try to find a use for it in your basement. It's likely not worth dragging to a scrap yard. Prices are running 80 to 120 dollars a ton. It would make a unique coffee table. Or a high-capacity cheese slicer. Best of luck to you.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST,swensen piano co
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 09:17 AM

boil the keys , the ivory will fall off in about two minutes .if saving the wood use a wet cloth and iron.the glue used to put them on is highly susceptible to steam or water.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST,Jeremy
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 03:17 PM

How much does this harp, or plate usually weigh?

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 05:21 PM

Hi, olddude. You might find that a gentle pry with a small screwdriver pops the ivory right off. My piano is very old, and when I got it, the glue was so dry that ivory was coming off unaided.

If that doesn't work, then try boiling. Unless that post about boiling was meant to be a joke.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST,strad
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 12:13 PM

Try a thin bladed knife after steeping it in boiling water. Just ease the blade under the ivory and give a gentle twist. Soaking the keys in hot water helps, too.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST,Guest Paul
Date: 07 Jan 12 - 07:45 PM

Hi guys,
I have an old very large upright. The frame is almost the size(and may be) of a small 5.6' babyG. The name on it is"The J.M. Root Piano Company"   Chicago. It doesn't show up in archives of manufacturers of the period and I have very limited info of the man.JM Root was the Vice President Of the Haddorff Piano co. Starting in 1904. How his name ends up cast in the harp of this piano is a nice mystery at this point. anyone now more? Best!

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 07:19 AM

CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH THE HARP OF THIS OLD PIANO OF MINE. IS IT WORTH ANY FOR SCRAP OR TO A COLLECTOR. [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST,the frankie guy
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:30 PM

I just took my harp out of the piano. repainted it. im eating a sandwich one day, and it tips over on my dog,crushes the dog. im sorry i left it like i did. their heavy and crush anything under em. what should i do to avoid from this happening again to the next dog i get so the harp dont crush him/her like a pancake?

                                             -frankie

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 02:18 PM

Next time out, get a banjo.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST,olddave
Date: 02 Apr 12 - 09:41 PM

I have a very old Weber upright -- about 1894 I believe. Action is in poor condition as the wood has become brittle with age. Hammers break off if played with any vigor. Does anyone have great ideas for what to do with the rosewood
case. Or of a way to fix the action.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST,Carl Feathers
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 01:55 PM

The piano harp would look nice with several cat turds on it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 04:49 PM

I make piano plAtes into outside artwork I have three new ones to work on in the spring

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 18 - 03:05 PM

hw pearlman upright
some keys arent working any more but previously did
1910-1920?
ivory coming off keys
believe it is mahogany previously used nyc theatre back in the day
needs tlc
where would i look to sell this
id hate to break it up

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 May 18 - 06:40 PM

I once saw a piano harp (minus the rest of the piano) used as an onstage instrument for a performance of a Greek tragedy (The Trojan Women, I think) - bashed with mallets to produce enormous dissonant tone clusters. Really effective as a reconstruction of an antiquity that never was.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST,Peter Sumner...
Date: 06 May 18 - 08:04 PM

Hello guest...regarding your Pearlman upright...I have to break this to you gently...the used piano market sucks...even for instruments in decent shape...this particularly refers to old uprights but as the market shrinks it will not get any better for any piano sales...
You may even have to pay to have it hauled away as there is nothing of scrap value worth the trouble of raving it out....the mahogany will be veneer...thick veneer from that era...but still veneer...
You are not alone in this quest and I'm sorry to be the bearer of such news...
Good luck
Peter Sumner
Concert piano technician
San Anselmo
California.

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 18 - 04:27 AM

Send a piano to Cuba

Subject: RE: Tech: Piano Harp Question
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 08 May 18 - 08:55 AM

We have the family pianola dated c 1909 which the restorer told us was a very early use of aluminium. It is still a heavy beast because of all the extra works.
RtS