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Hokey pokey and the Druids?

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HILLI BALLU
HINKUMBOOBY


Related threads:
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Lyr Add: Hokey Pokey (redundant) (3) (closed)
(origins) Origins: Looby Loo ===> Hokey Pokey (21)
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AllisonA(Animaterra) 09 Jun 99 - 12:43 PM
annamill 09 Jun 99 - 12:47 PM
Alice 09 Jun 99 - 12:56 PM
MMario 09 Jun 99 - 01:12 PM
Rick Fielding 09 Jun 99 - 01:32 PM
LEJ 09 Jun 99 - 02:26 PM
annamill 09 Jun 99 - 02:29 PM
Llanfair 09 Jun 99 - 02:31 PM
MMario 09 Jun 99 - 02:52 PM
Alice 09 Jun 99 - 03:07 PM
SeanM 09 Jun 99 - 03:48 PM
annamill 09 Jun 99 - 03:52 PM
Fadac 09 Jun 99 - 04:29 PM
Margo 09 Jun 99 - 04:30 PM
Alice 09 Jun 99 - 06:03 PM
Matthew B. 09 Jun 99 - 06:10 PM
Alice 09 Jun 99 - 06:15 PM
Matthew B. 09 Jun 99 - 06:23 PM
LEJ 09 Jun 99 - 06:24 PM
Alice 09 Jun 99 - 06:36 PM
SeanM 09 Jun 99 - 06:39 PM
Fadac 09 Jun 99 - 06:47 PM
09 Jun 99 - 06:51 PM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 09 Jun 99 - 08:19 PM
MAG (inactive) 09 Jun 99 - 08:29 PM
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Subject: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 12:43 PM

Seriously- I'm not making this up! I could swear I read somewhere (possibly ere???) that the game the Hokey Pokey is the oldest known children's game, dating back to an ancient Druid ritual. Can anyone elucidate, or do I really have to stop drinking PGTips?
Really- I want to know--- hey, stop laughing at me!


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: annamill
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 12:47 PM

Animaterra,

That would make a great band name. Better than Hooty and the blowfish!

Hokey pokey and the Druids playing tonight.

;-)

Love, Annap


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 12:56 PM

"Hokey Pokey and the Druids", on tour down under, playing to sold-out crowds.... I can see a whole cult following of this group, just like the Dead-heads who wandered around trailing Greatful Dead concerts! What a great name!
I've never heard the theory before, but could it be just that circle dances are a simple and obvious way to begin playing in a group? -alice


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: MMario
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 01:12 PM

I think someone was pulling your leg... found this very quickly...at the following URL:
http://www.thonline.com/th/news/1996/th0413/stories/7200.htm

April 13, 1996

Creator of 'The Hokey Pokey' dies

Associated Press

Every schoolchild in America knows the Hokey Pokey. You put your right foot in, you put your right foot out, you put your right foot in ... well, you know what it's all about.

What you might not know is who wrote the song. Larry LaPrise, aka The Hokey Pokey Man, died last week at age 83 in Boise, Idaho, after a career that brought him no fame, modest fortune, and a job with the Postal Service.

That's right. Someone actually wrote "The Hokey Pokey."

For many baby boomers and their children, the Hokey Pokey is simply part of the national legacy, right up there with Mother Goose and Twister.

The Hokey Pokey, it turns out, isn't so old after all.

LaPrise, a Detroit native whose full name was Roland Lawrence LaPrise, concocted the song along with two fellow musicians in the late 1940s for the apres ski crowd at a nightclub in Sun Valley, Idaho. The group, the Ram Trio, recorded the song in 1949.

In 1953, bandleader Ray Anthony bought the rights and recorded "The Hokey Pokey" on the B-side of another novelty record, "The Bunny Hop."

"Everybody was doing the 'Bunny Hop' before long, which meant that everybody was doing 'The Hokey Pokey,"' observed LaPrise's daughter, Linda Ruby.

There followed a steady succession of recordings.

After the Ram Trio disbanded in the 1960s, LaPrise, by then a father of six, went to work for the post office in Ketchum. At about the same time, country star Roy Acuff's publishing company bought the rights to the Hokey Pokey.


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 01:32 PM

Animaterra, you've made my day! Please, someone, start a band with this name!


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: LEJ
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 02:26 PM

What Alice didn't tell you and may not even know is that Larry LaPrise visited Stonehenge at the Summer Solstice in 1946, and participated in the Sanctification of the Limbs Ceremony, where Druid Priests dance in a circle around the Altar of the Oak, waving their arms, legs, feet etc over the altar in order to purify their bodies. Is it a coincidence that the ancient name for this ceremony is ahochi pahochi ? It has also been recounted in Joel Hartung's Knock on Wood : Druidical Thought in Theory and Practice that a band of Druids, angry at LaPrise's incorporation of the sacred ceremony into his song, cursed him "to walk the earth for the rest of his life, whether through rain or snow or sleet or dark of night", which some say accounts for his postal career.

LEJ


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: annamill
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 02:29 PM

LEJ,

I didn't know that.

annap


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Llanfair
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 02:31 PM

MMario!!!! Are you sure that "article" wasn't dated April 1st!!!!! The hoky koky, the curious dance that only takes place at weddings when everyone is too pissed to do any other dance is a completely different kettle of fish from HOKY POKY, which was a sweetmeat sold at markets and festivals for a penny a bag, or "poke" thus "Hoky Poky, penny a bag" Still a good name for a band, though. But I don't know where the druids come in, though. Hwyl, Bron.


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: MMario
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 02:52 PM

according to various articles I read, the song/dance is known as the "okey-cokey" or "hokey-cokey" on one side of the pond, and the "hokey-pokey" on the other. evidently there was a big stink in the 50's as to who had it first.

MMario


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 03:07 PM

ummm, LEJ, it was MMario, not me, who posted the info about the author (thanks, MMario). Does going Postal happen after too many years of the hokey pokey curse? - alice


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: SeanM
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 03:48 PM

I believe that Hokey Pokey research is an incredibly underappreciated branch of musicology. As one of my area's imminent Hokapokologists, I'd like to render my humble opinons and research.

The Hokey Pokey is actually a much older and vastly important phenomenon than it appears. There have been several references to this dance and song combo that trace back to the dawn of mankind. The earliest version appears to have been some kind of tribal mass hunting ritual, wherein the hunter's prey, nearly dead, would be surrounded by the hunters. At this point, a specialized tribal shaman (the Hokunapoku) would begin a steady beat on the drum and chant instructions to his hunters, along the lines of 'you put your sharpened wooden stick in...' etc.

The dance seems to have traveled along with a nomadic tribe through the centuries. Oddly enough, only one tribe was ever shown to have this, the 'Hikipikalts', eventually being shortened to just the 'Celts' by recent historians. These were not the same races who would later form the Northern European breeding stock, but rather were a group known for tall men who were overly fond of throwing roundish rocks in to oddly shaped food baskets. During the time of the great land bridge exodus between the Asiatic and American continents, this tribe was known to have added a section to this dance. Upon seeing the new land before them after their arduos journey, the tribal captain announced that hereafter a new section to their sacred dance would be added, wherin after the (now ritualized) waving of weapons and anything else was completed, all participants would turn themselves about to represent the journey, and then loudly announce 'birdash crum McHale Ainge', roughly translated as 'it is this which all things are about'.

This tribe settled down in an area corresponding with Massachusets. It quickly dispersed throughout the area, and the original primal significance of the dance began to wane. As members of the tribe paired with members of surrounding tribes, women and children began to appear in the 'pokey' circles, and as they didn't have weapons, insisted on being allowed to wave body parts instead. Sadly, at the coming of the Europeans, almost all of the tribe was lost due to a misinterpreted gesture during a showing of the dance to the new settlers... The Europeans attempted to join in the ritual, but unfortunately dispatched most of the tribe by mistakenly going 'in' when they should have gone 'out'.

Nothing much is known after this point. It is surmised that Mr. LaPrise is one of the last of this noble tribe, and that he brought out his truly magical dance in an attempt to make sure that his ancestors would never be forgotten. He may rest in peace, then, for he has created a gift for the ages.

History lesson over. Further lessons on the significance of the number 4524636433 1/3 in the lives of ancient Babylonians will be given upon request.

M


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: annamill
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 03:52 PM

M,

I didn't know that. ;-)

annap

(..that was great fun to read)


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Fadac
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 04:29 PM

M. That sounds about right. P small part of this rituel exests today. In the yacht club I used to belong to, they had a ritual round disk in the noise maker. When a small coin of the relm was inserted, the box would whail about "put in your little foot, and shake it all about" Not having a little foot, I was prevented from performing this ritual. I tried using the club cat, (whom has very danty little feet.) But I was hissed out of the circle.

Dejected from such catty treatment, I would slink into the quaffable room and have a round or two. After a couple of hours, some glassy eyed small footed Hoky Pokyers would come in for quafables. After a few of those they became more glassy eyed, and their small feet became clumsy.

I know that the Hoky Pokey is a hunting ritual. Fortunitly the only heads taken here were on moosehead beer. One hoky poker tried to mount the beer head on the wall. (Didn't look at all like a moose.) We all stood around and admired the head for a while. Something must have gone wrong, (defective beer head?) Because it was gone by the next morning.

With feet too big to Hoky Poky, -Fadac. :(


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Margo
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 04:30 PM

Man, am I glad I have my boots on. It's getting pretty deep! I have oft wondered if the tribes of natives around the world didn't revere and copy their autistic children. My daughter has been doing this amazing dance since she could walk......................no hoky! Margarita


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 06:03 PM

A guy has spent five years traveling all around the world making a documentary on Native dances. At the end of this time, he has every single native dance of every indigenous culture in the world on film. He winds up in Australia, in Alice Springs, so he pops into a pub for a well earned beer. He gets talking to one of the local Aborigines and tells him about his project.

The Aborigine asks the guy what he thought of the "Butcher Dance."

The guy's a bit confused and says, "Butcher Dance? What's that?"

"What? You no see Butcher Dance?"

"No, I've never heard of it."

"Oh mate. You crazy. How you say you film every native dance if you no see Butcher Dance?"

"UmmSUM. I got a corroborree on film just the other week. Is that what you mean?"

"No no, not corroborree. Butcher Dance much more important than corroborree."

"Oh, well how can I see this Butcher Dance then?"

"Mate, Butcher Dance right out bush. Many days travel to go see Butcher Dance."

"Look, I've been everywhere from the forests of the Amazon, to deepest darkest Africa, to the frozen wastes of the Arctic filming these dances. Nothing will prevent me from recording this one last dance."

"OK, mate. You drive north along highway towards Darwin. After you drive 197 miles, you see dirt track veer off to left. Follow dirt track for 126 miles 'til you see big huge dead gum tree - biggest tree you ever see. Here you gotta leave the car, because much too rough for driving.

You strike out due west into setting sun. You walk 3 days 'til you hit creek. You follow this creek to Northwest. After 2 days you find where creek flows out of rocky mountains. Much too difficult to cross mountains here though. You now head south for half day 'til you see pass through mountains.

Pass very difficult and very dangerous. Take 2, maybe 3 days to get through rocky pass. When through, head northwest for 4 days 'til reach big huge rock - 20 ft high and shaped like man's head. From rock, walk due west for 2 days and you find village. Here you see Butcher Dance."

So the guy grabs his camera crew and equipment and heads out. After a couple of hours he finds the dirt track. The track is in a shocking state and he's forced to crawl along at a snails pace and so he doesn't reach the tree until dusk and he's forced to set up camp for the night.

He sets out bright and early the following morning. His spirits are high and he's excited about the prospect of capturing on film this mysterious dance which he had never heard mention of before.

True to the directions he has been given, he reaches the creek after three days and follows it for another two until they reach the rocky mountains. The merciless sun is starting to take its toll by this time and his spirits are starting to flag, but wearily he trudges on until he finds the pass through the hills - nothing will prevent him from completing his life's dream.

The mountains prove to be every bit as treacherous as their guide said and at times they almost despair of getting their bulky equipment through. But after three and a half days of back breaking effort they finally force their way clear and continue their long trek.

When they reach the huge rock, four days later, their water is running low and their feet are covered with blisters. Yet they steel themselves and head out on the last leg of their journey.

Two days later they virtually stagger into the village where the natives feed them and give them fresh water. They begin to feel like new men.

Once he's recovered enough, the guy goes before the village chief and tells him that he has come to film there Butcher Dance.

"Oh mate. Very bad you come today. Butcher Dance last night. You too late. You miss dance."

"Well, when do you hold the next dance?"

"Not 'til next year."

"Well, I've come all this way. Couldn't you just hold an extra dance for me, tonight?"

"No, no, no! Butcher Dance very holy. Only hold once a year. If hold more, gods get very angry and destroy village! You want see Butcher Dance you come back next year."

The guy is devastated, but he has no other option but to head back to civilization and back home.

The following year, he heads back to Australia and, determined not to miss out again, sets out a week earlier than last time. He is quite willing to spend a week in the village before the dance is performed in order to ensure he is present to witness it. However, right from the start things go wrong.

Heavy rains that year have turned the dirt track to mud and the car gets bogged every few miles, finally forcing them to abandon their vehicles and slog through the mud on foot almost half the distance to the tree.

They reach the creek and the mountains without any further hitch, but halfway through the ascent of the mountain they are struck by a fierce storm which rages for several days, during which they are forced to cling forlornly to the mountainside until it subsides. It would be suicide to attempt to scale the treacherous paths in the face of such savage elements.

Then, before they have traveled a mile out from the mountains, one of the crew sprains his ankle badly which slows down the rest of their journey enormously, to the rock and then the village.

Eventually, having lost all sense of how long they have been traveling, they stagger into the village at about 12:00 noon.

"The Butcher Dance!" gasps the guy. "Please don't tell me I'm too late!"

The chief recognizes him and says "No, white fella. Butcher Dance performed tonight. You come just in time."

Relieved beyond measure, the crew spends the rest of the afternoon setting up their equipment - preparing to capture the night's ritual on celluloid as dusk falls, the natives start to cover there bodies in white paint and adorn themselves in all manner of bird's feathers and animal skins.

Once darkness has settled fully over the land, the natives form a circle around a huge roaring fire.

A deathly hush descends over performers and spectators alike as a wizened old figure with elaborate swirling designs covering his entire body enters the circle and begins to chant. Some sort of witch doctor or medicine man, figures the guy and he whispers to the chief, "What's he doing?"

"Hush," whispers the chief. "You first white man ever to see most sacred of our rituals. Must remain silent. Holy man, he asks that the spirits of the dream world watch as we demonstrate our devotion to them through our dance and, if they like our dancing, will they be so gracious as to watch over us and protect us for another year."

The chanting of the Holy man reaches a stunning crescendo before he moves himself from the circle. From somewhere the rhythmic pounding of drums booms out across the land and the natives begin to sway to the stirring rhythm.

The guy is becoming caught up in the fervor of the moment himself. This is it. He now realizes beyond all doubt that his wait has not been in vain. He is about to witness the ultimate performance of rhythm and movement ever conceived by mankind.

The chief strides to his position in the circle and, in a big booming voice, starts to sing,

He says, "You butcher right arm in. You butcher right arm out. You butcher right arm in and you shake it all about"


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Matthew B.
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 06:10 PM

omigosh, Alice, how much time did you spend, typing that one up for us? I'm still limping from it.

As for the Druid version of the hokey pokey, I believe it starts of this way:

You put your right foot in
You put your right foot out
You put your right foot in
And you line it up with the sun's trajectory during the vernal eqinox...


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 06:15 PM

Matthew, it was a copy and paste from my email file... a friend sent it to me a year ago with the title "A Marvellously Awful Story". (Can't believe I saved it, but then, this opportunity did present itself!) I'm too busy to think up or type a GROANER like that one. ;->

alice


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Matthew B.
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 06:23 PM

Whew. I was afraid you were starting to go postal on us.


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: LEJ
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 06:24 PM

Sean,while deferring to your obvious depth of knowledge re Hokey Pokey, you do a disservice by omitting a curious Hikipikalt aspect of the ceremony that has a unique carry-over in today's manifestations of the phenomenon. The unique practice of binding slippery fruit to the soles of the feet as performed by the religious elite of the Hipikalts, and then performing the dance on a steep slope. This was an obvious attempt by the elite to display their proficiency at the dance. This intentional encumbrance has been passed down to todays practicioners, most notably in the common Hokey Pokey Roller Rink Ritual. Correlations may also be pointed out in Fadac's recollection of his yacht club companions, who would imbibe mind-altering substances to enhance the HP experience. For more background, see Hibbard and Glutz Holy Rollers;Hikipikalt Dance Ritual in Smithsonian June23,1989


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 06:36 PM

LEJ, in these parts we call that sect the Hickey Pickles. They all have sour expressions, and you can tell there are aspects of their cult rituals they are trying to hide with turtlenecks and scarves. Yes, it is a slippery slope they are heading down....


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: SeanM
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 06:39 PM

My apologies. My post-doctoral studies were set to be in the Hokipokital uses of other items in this field. Sadly, before I could begin on that, the University of Schenectady, Tahitian branch, was destroyed in a huge accident, ironically related to another native dance... the Con-Ga... it seems that someone in the group had poor spelling abilities, causing a large ape to be attracted to the ceremony. Poor thing destroyed most of the University in its search for a scantily clad blond professor.

M


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Fadac
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 06:47 PM

Alice! Oh, I'm laughing so hard I have to wipe my eyes. Great story. I scraped and sent it to my joke cronies.

Fadac


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From:
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 06:51 PM

It was probably that called Hanskin or Half Hannakin in the late 16th and early 17th century and Prinkum Prankum in the later 17th century. The oldest verses I've seen, which describe the dance, were given in the 19th century by Robert Chambers (Hankum Booby), later to be followed by the titles Lubin or Looby Loo and the modern Hokey Pokey.


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 08:19 PM

I can't stop laughing long enough to get a word in edgewise! This is priceless... er... scholarship and I'm forever indebted for all of you for your erudition! The Mudcat is truly a wonderful place!


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 08:29 PM

Hinkery pinkery cutery corn, maybe, but I can't find the reference. - MA


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 08:57 PM

More on the Hickey Pickles (or, as LEJ in Colorado calls them, Hikipikalt) - the turtleneck cover-up of the ritualistic purple mark on the neck is seen today in the attire of the ski culture, which is also directly connected to the sliding down of slopes (wood slats replacing fruit). The branch that split off in the cowboy direction (scarf or bandana around the neck) were the group who used their atlatl on the katlkatl, and drove the first herds up here from Texas. The original spelling was, of course, Hikipikatl, but years of the spelling error -kalt instead of -katl (as in our earlier thread on this subject) has caused Hikipikalt to become commonly accepted.
The song, after all, comes from Idaho. We have an abundance of both cattle ranches and ski resorts here in the Rockies.

alal in montana


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 09:09 PM

Out here, in the Ole West, the dance was considered to be something of a heathen ritual atrributed mostly to the darker angels of the lower stata. When anyone was found to be exhibiting signs of such gyrations, they were immediately taken into custody by the local "Matt Dillon" and put in the "Pokey", so named for the incarceration and, hopefully, purification of such adherents. Of course, if, while in the throes of their riotous ecstacy, they committed some other, more heinous crime, or if they spouted even tiny "divil knobs" on the tops of their heads, they were treated to a new kind of dance, the next day after being "poh keed", that is the "Dance of the Dangling Rope".

Owen Whistler refered to this in his "Study of the Early Range Terrirorial Practice of Law and Heathenism, as it Related to the Open Range of the Wyoming, Dakota, and Colorado Territories". He made mention of the fact that plenty of cattle rustlers were reluctant, but active, never-the-less, participants in a variation of the same "Dangling Rope" dance, sometimes with colourful variations. Rather than throw the rope over a tree, which was often hard to find, inventive lawmen and rabblerousers would find the nearest telegraph pole, barn pulley, or crossbar with which to facilitate the dancers.

One of the strangest customs mentioned in the book, is a penchant they had for immortalising the inevitable demise of all Dangling Rope dancers through the use of photography. Even today, these lasting images impart an eerie sense of what it must be like to partake in such a dance. Those who even thought of performing the HokeyPokey must have been either very brave or insane to have risked such punishment. It is said that the analogy of "sure if ya think yer dancing such an innocent little thing like the HokeyPokey, doncha know you'll end up in some gutter, used up and burnt out, fit only for the dreaded Dangling Rope Dance?"

At one point, Whistler, points out there was declared an all out "War on the HokeyPokey" wherein children especially were asked to "just say no!" in order to fend off the temptations of its lascivious ways. These warnings, apprarently continued on into this century until they were eclipsed by the never before seen gyrations of the ElvisPelvis, icon of the rocknroll era. eventually the Dangling Rope dance was done away with and teh sad remnants of the original HokeyPokey were taught to innocent schoolchildren as a quaint, old folkdance. But sometimes an elder raises their eyebrows, smirks their lips, and make the sign against the evil eye, for in their dimmist memories, they remembered the "divil" dance of the old days and the wretched path it led one down.

Excerpt from "Origins of the Western Dance" by KattleKate of LooseGow Ranch, Wyoming 1919


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 09:10 PM

got the copyright date wrong on that one above. shoulda been 1999! KKof the HGR


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 09:16 PM

What a lovely insane bunch. And not a Catspaw in the crowd (how did he miss this thread?). See, Animaterra, you ask a simple question, you get a simple answer.

I didn't know that.

Big RiB


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: LEJ
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 09:42 PM

Kat- I apologize, but I am able to find no reference in any of the extensive writings of Owen Whistler to the Hokey Pokey being in ANY way connected to the Dangling Rope Dance, and I am afraid you are getting some Jimson Weed mixed into your Caesar Salad.

Alice- the use of the atlatl on catl-catl by the Hikipikalt is still a subject of idle prattle as well as a source of considerable intellectual battle.

Sean- I have seen the photos of U of Schenectady's Tahiti Campus Post-anthropoidem assaultus , and it is truly awesome what an aroused Gorilla can do to a full score of quonset huts on Sorority Row.

LEJ


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 10:26 PM

LEJ,
fiddle faddle

Alice


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From:
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 10:49 PM

No. Fiddle Faddle was another name for the tune Tail Toddle.


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 12:39 AM

My dearest Leeej,

Perhaps you're not looking in the right edition? This was a limited edition meant for those of the mystery schools only, although I did have permision for posting them here for the erudition of all.

As this knowledge was not originally intended for the masses, perhaps this explains the seeming obscurity of the excerpt I quoted. NOT, that I don't think you are worthy. OH, NO, great Learned One, perhaps because of the vastness of your memory banks, this was just a small oversight on your part. I am sure if yu check your references you will find some mysterious allusions to the Dangling Rope dance in association with the original HokeyPokey.

Another reference gives that association as the main and only etymology of "pokey" as a term for the "hoosegow" or jail/gaol house as it was more commonly known.

I will check my references again, but at the moment, I hold fast to my position. You see, I was named after KattleKate of the HooseGow Ranch...she is my gran and her memory is quite sharp, as is her tongue!

As to Jimson Weed? well, bite yer tongue, Pahdnuh! we don't hold wiht any of that mind altering herbal stuff up here in these parts! Gran wouldn't have it. 'Sides, she doesn't even know what a Ceasar Salad is!

Respectfully,

Kat,jr.


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 12:41 AM

dammit! who put this in here?


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: SeanM
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 01:04 AM

Ah, dearest Kat...as resident Hokapokologist Emiritus, I must thank you for pointing out one of the neglected texts of our great study. According to the great researcher, Alouicious ArgleBargle, Ph.C., the Western dance you speak of occured primarily after a remote tribe of Piecute Indians attempted to recreate the Hokilapokila dance after being exposed to the near lethal 'Bunnitahoppe'... surely, all must remember the expose written by Prof. Alouicious, wherein he traced this hideous ritual back to bizzare mating ceremonies of prehuman races in the Antarctic. The two combined made a truly obscene spectacle, and it is suspected that the 'Rope Dancers' were performing a true service to humanity in their attmept to stop this bizzare intermingling of the dances. All the same, it was a shame when Prof. A. departed this world in attempting to recreate this ritual in a publicly acceptable way... his last words seem to indicate that he 'hopped two steps in, one step back, and shook it all about', without noting what he shook. Apparently this caused a rift in the fabric of reality itself, releasing a demon rabbit into his Tunguskan research laboratory, and the ensuing carnage is known to all.

M


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 01:21 AM

Yes, Sean, I had heard a bit about that. Can you believe my son's long ago first grade teacher knew about it and told me therein lie the origins of the seemingly cute little children's song, "Little Bunny FooFoo"! And, to think my innocent children sang it all in good fun, not knowing the hideous history behind it!

katshuddering


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Brakn
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 04:26 AM

The Hokey Cokey was copyrighted in England in 1942 by Jimmy Kennedy. He called it the Cokey Cokey. In an introduction to the dance he wrote;

This is one of the simplest dances ever. Since its introduction here by the Canadian forces, it has caught on like wildfire and bids fair to out-rival some of the most sensational dance successes of the past. The word "Cokey" means a dope fiend - but what this has to do with the dance is not clear. The dance is founded on a traditional action song long known in the mining camps and dance saloons of the Canadian West.

Regards Mick Bracken.


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 05:58 AM

G'day,
A few years ago we played for a group called "Riding For The Disabled". When we got to the hokey pokey (not cokey in Oz) there were some in wheelchairs, some with various limbs missing, but they all had a go. We weren't sure how they would take it but they loved it.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 08:06 AM

Well, in this country, the thing was first published as the Kokey-Cokey; the name was later changed to the familiar "Hokey-Cokey" soon afterwards, probably in the interests of common sense (relatively speaking).

Hokey-pokey is ice-cream, as sold by Italian immigrants (Hoco uno poco - take a piece).

Sorry, is this a bit serious? If you prefer your party entertainment sitting down, you can't beat the great game of name ten famous Belgians. I found out on Sundaty that Georges Simenon (authour of the Maigret stories) was Belgian. That should start you off.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Bert
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 09:19 AM

The ORIGINAL dance was called the 'Hanky Panky'. It was extremely popular in England for many centuries. However, due the to Victorian prudish view on life it was starting to die out. Just in time it was collected by the great Cecil Sharpe, but unfortunately was bowdlerised into what we see today. You don't want to know what the original dance was like (or what they were putting in and out).

I know this because my family used to sell tickets to the dance many generations ago and the name Hansell is a contracted derivitive of the term 'Hanky Panky Sellers'.

And that's the truth!!!

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: annamill
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 09:49 AM

I didn't know that!!!

Nuts. Love, love, love, annap


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From:
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 10:53 AM

The BS keeps getting deeper!

I've misplaced my copy of Robert Chambers Scots version, Hinkum or Hankum Booby. There are 14 versions of Lubin or Looby Loo, 5 with the tunes, and the 1st with 14 verses, in Alice Bertha Gomme's 'The Traditional Games of England, Scotland and Ireland', I, 1894.

The 1st two verses of the 1st version go:

Here we dance lubin, lubin, lubin,
Here we dance lubin light,
Here we dance lubin, lubin, lubin,
On a Saturday night.

Put all the right hands in,
Take all the right hands out,
Shake all the right hands together,
And turn yourself about.


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 11:24 AM

I think I saw a German video some time ago that depicted that very custom. And one or two others as well.


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 12:16 PM

Thanks, anon, for contributing the REAL information. (Bruce, that MUST be you!) True to Mudcat tradition, the BS part of the thread is good for a laugh. -alice


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Penny S.
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 03:05 PM

Perhaps some light may be cast on the ancient origins of this dance by the aquatic version performed by some children over here. From a position standing in waist deep water, a gradually more complete surrender to the water (you put both feet in...) culminates in complete immersion (knees bend) and a triumphant rise with arms in the orante position to the repeated cry Ra! Ra! Ra!

Penny


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 05:38 PM

Net surfing reveals the following (http://www.scotist. dame.uy/newscotistnotes/html/ (I can't do the blue-clicky thing).
"New Scotist Notes: In the forthcoming revised version of their Oxford Book of Children's Verse, the Opies discuss the possible origins of the children's game, "hokey -pokey" or "okey-kokey" as being derived at one remove from the medieval communion service phrase, 'Hoc ist corpus meum' (This is my body) which was corrupted into "hocus-pocus" in 16th century nonsense phrases supposedly used by magicians, particularly parodic versions of Scotus; and the nonsense phrase was in turn corrupted into 'hokey-pokey'. They cite remnant examples of a ring dance parodying magic ritual from Shropshire surviving into the early 20th century, which uses the phrase "okey pookey, pookey okey", but this was a women's festival dance, and not a children's dance. Carters Meade, folklorist specialist at the British Library Children's Literature Archive (cited by the Opies) suggests that the movements in the modern ring dance may similarly derive very distantly from portions of the liturgy.
(more about other items)
ISBN - 0-201-88448-8. Hardbound, available July 31, 1999. Oxford: O.U.P ($175.00 American).

The Internet is an amazing place.Yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: alison
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 08:06 PM

Here we go Looby Loo,

ah..... fond memories of Andy Pandy.... Andy is waving good night.....

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: bbc
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 09:15 PM

SeanM--

I'll bite. Members of my household really *need* to hear the significance of the number 4524636433 1/3 to the ancient Babylonians. We'll be holding our collective breath till your next post. Gasp...hurry!!!

curiously,

bbc


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 09:33 PM

I didn't know any of that!

The following is absolutely true and it even has a postal reference as well.......... It is DR5 HRT.

No seriously the postal reference is that the whole sorry tale happened at our local Post Office, New Year party, when I was working as a (hippie) postman.

I worked in a smaller office and did not know the majority of the other postmen at the party. My wife and I had some problem with the people at table next to us, they thought that she had knocked one of their coats on the floor or something. No words were spoken to us but there was a lot of muttering going on.

There must be something deep and tribal about the Hokey Cokey, for it was during this dance that the whole thing reached crisis point.

For those that are not aware of this dance, part of it involves linking with the people either side of you and the circle of people goes in to meet in the middle and that out again. It was during one of the passes in that my wife's foot accidentally caught the knee of the chap from the next table.

The circle then went out again.

He obviously thought that she had done this on purpose for when the circle came in again, I saw him quite deliberately make a bee-line for my wife and kick her on the knee.

The circle then went out again.

Katrina, still in some pain, bravely continued to link hands and we started to go in again.

I was a little worse for wear from the liquid refreshment, and I saw it then as I still see it in my memory now, in slow motion...... One does not stand for that sort of behaviour from a chap to ones wife, my thinking went.

I had plenty of time to concentrate my aim on the way in and I swung freely and caught him square in the 'mailbox'.

The dance (and the party) appeared to end at that point, amid scenes rather like those of a John Wayne movie, bar-room brawl.

Hence the title of that song 'Blame It On The Hokey Cokey'.....(The Dance Of Love)... Or was that the Bossa Nova? .......You have been warned.

Bert

Is it Deja Vu or have we been here before?


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Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 03:22 AM

Shropshire eh? I might have known - there're all weird out there!

I'm intrigued by the Andy-Pandy connection. There's a nursery rhyme (which I never heard as a child); I don't know it, but it rhymes Handy-pandy with sugar candy. Sounds like we're getting perilously close to the old phallic symbolism here - a right load of symbolics, if you ask me!

Steve


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