BS: Georgia- Still fighting.

Subject: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:00 PM

"Also Monday, Georgian police official said a Georgia police officer was killed and two wounded when Abkhazian fighters fired on a Georgian police checkpoint Sunday."

Don't you just love a Russian ceasefire- YOU have to stop shooting, and they get to continue.






EU: Observers to deploy to Georgia on time

21 minutes ago



TBILISI, Georgia - European Union military observers will be deployed in Georgia by an Oct. 1 deadline despite Moscow's continued insistence that they won't be allowed into two breakaway regions occupied by Russian troops, the head of the EU mission pledged Monday.

Under a French-brokered cease-fire, Russia has 10 days to withdraw its forces from Georgian areas outside South Ossetia and Abkhazia once the EU observers are in place.

Hansjoerg Haber, who is heading the EU mission, promised that the 200 observers will be in place near the cities of Gori, Zugdidi and Poti by Oct. 1 — a promise that was praised by Prime Minister Lado Gurgenidze.

"The deployment is a pivotal step to stabilize the situation," Gurgenidze said after meeting Haber. "We appreciate the speed with which they sent the mission."

The presence of non-Russian, foreign observers in Georgia was a key aspect of the updated cease-fire deal reached between Moscow and Tbilisi earlier this month. But the scope and effectiveness of the EU mission — and that of other foreign observers — has been in doubt due to Moscow's refusal to allow the observers into Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

Moscow has also balked at letting more monitors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe into South Ossetia. The OSCE had hoped to send an additional 80 unarmed observers to South Ossetia, but talks with Russia broke down last week.

Moscow intends to keep around 3,600 troops in each regions, both of which it has recognized as independent states.

Haber made no comments about EU observers having access to South Ossetia nor Abkhazia.

War in Georgia broke out on Aug. 7 when Georgian forces attacked South Ossetia's main city and Russia repelled the Georgian offensive, routed its army and occupied swaths of Georgian territory.

Also Monday, Georgian police official said a Georgia police officer was killed and two wounded when Abkhazian fighters fired on a Georgian police checkpoint Sunday.

Another two Georgian officers were wounded Monday when they went into the area and stepped on a land mine, Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said.

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:49 PM

Abkhazia has been at war with Georgia since the begining of the 90s. Georgia gives as much as it gets, if not more. They are the ones who wouldn't let Abkhazia, which is not Georgia, be independent.

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:53 PM

My point is the Russian Peacekeepers seem capable of killing Georgians, but will not stop others.

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:56 PM

Those weren't Russian peacekeepers, so it's back to what it was like before, really. As for the mine, it's just as likely to have been Georgian.

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:18 PM

The Russian Peacekeepers are occupying, and should be keeping the peace, not allowing Georgians to be killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:24 PM

Hmm, only occupying in the sense that NATO occupied Serbian land, IE, Kossovo.
Georgians shouldn't be fighting either, yet....

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:26 PM

"a Georgia police officer was killed and two wounded when Abkhazian fighters fired on a Georgian police checkpoint Sunday."

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:32 PM

Volgadon,

If Abkhazia and Ossetia are independant and therefore no longer subject to Georgian abuse, from which russia claims it is protecting them, then why are attacks by Abkhazian forces against Georgians continuing?

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: GUEST,Georgia
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:45 PM

They are trying to be independent, but aren't yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:46 PM

so the Russians still let them kill Georgians???

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:50 PM

Just as the USA lets Georgians kill Abkhazians. Georgia is far from clean or innocent here.

Before anyone jumps to the conclusion that I supported the Russian invasion of Georgian, well, I didn't. It was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: Peace
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:53 PM

The international observers will be there October 1st(?). Then we see what they see. The incidents were reported by Georgia. Heaven forfend they'd spin things a bit . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:54 PM

We don't know. And given Georgia's murderous past record in Abkhazia I can see no reason to give its armed forces the benefit of the doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 04:49 PM

"...given Georgia's murderous past record in Abkhazia I can see no reason to give its armed forces the benefit of the doubt."

Now let's see Jack population of the region known as Abkhazia according to the 1989 census was some 512,000 people, comprising Georgians (largest group), Abkhazians, Armenians, Russians and Greeks. After their "War of Independence" the population according to the 2003 census had halved around 193,000 Georgians had been driven from their homes and the only ethnic group whose numbers had grown during those intervening four years was the Abkhazians all the others had decreased dramatically. Now what was that track record again Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Georgia- Still fighting.
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 09:43 AM

From New York Times, 9 October 2008
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
October 9, 2008
Satellite Images Document South Ossetia Destruction
By REUTERS
Filed at 9:13 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Satellite images taken just after a battle between Georgia and Russia over the region of South Ossetia show fresh damage to villages continued for days after the initial clash, researchers and human rights activists reported on Thursday.

The images analyzed by the American Association for the Advancement of Science's Science and Human Rights Program do not show who was responsible for the damage -- Georgia, Russia or other groups. But they may be evidence of war crimes, said Amnesty International, which commissioned the study.

"These images do not lie -- the additional destruction shown from August 10 to August 19 must be used to establish who had responsibility for protecting civilians from attacks by militia," said Amnesty's Ariela Blatter.

"The destruction of civilian infrastructure highlights the need for the international community to undertake an independent investigation of abuses during the conflict, with the complete support of all parties involved."

The crisis erupted in August when Georgia tried to forcibly retake the pro-Russian region of South Ossetia, which threw off Georgian rule in the 1990s.

Russia counter-attacked into Georgia on August 7 and 8, overwhelming Georgian forces and drawing condemnation from the West. Russian forces pulled back into South Ossetia on Wednesday as part of a ceasefire brokered by the European Union.

Georgia says Russia fully controlled Tskhinvali by August 10, but Russia has said Georgian troops inflicted most of the damage to civilian areas of South Ossetia.

DIFFICULT IMAGES

Lars Bromley, who heads the AAAS project to use satellites to monitor human rights abuses and conflict, said it was difficult to get images to verify the claims.

"We were able to use only a few commercial satellites. Anyone with a credit card can order imagery from them and the competition was heavy," Bromley said in a telephone interview.

"What it does is it probably sheds some light on how much damage was done to Tskhinvali and other surrounding villages ... while the Russians were in control and while the Georgians were in control," Bromley added.

His group has documented conflicts in places such as Myanmar, Sudan and Ethiopia.

The images, taken on August 10 and 19, show 424 civilian structures near Tskhinvali intact on August 10 but damaged by the 19th. In Tamarasheni 152 structures that were intact on August 10 seemed to have been damaged by the 19th.

Amnesty said the images support on-the-ground reports that more than 100 civilian houses in Tskhinvali were shelled during the initial Georgian bombardment.

"Amnesty International is particularly concerned by the reported formation in and around South Ossetia of irregular, locally organized armed groups able to act with impunity, increasing the potential dangers for civilians," the group said in a statement. It reported looting, burning and beatings.

"To be sure, there was indiscriminate and disproportionate use of force on both sides of the conflict," Anna Neistat of Human Rights Watch told a briefing earlier this week in Washington.

"However, the bulk of the looting and burning of property and attacks on civilians was conducted by South Ossetian militias and ordinary criminals who were allowed to operate in the areas controlled by Russian forces."