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Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE

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GUEST, Sminky 22 Sep 08 - 12:40 PM
RTim 22 Sep 08 - 12:47 PM
GUEST, Sminky 22 Sep 08 - 12:54 PM
Steve Gardham 22 Sep 08 - 03:21 PM
GUEST, Sminky 23 Sep 08 - 05:02 AM
Fidjit 23 Sep 08 - 11:49 AM
Steve Gardham 23 Sep 08 - 02:35 PM
GUEST, Sminky 24 Sep 08 - 05:07 AM
GUEST,Joe P at Work 24 Sep 08 - 05:13 AM
GUEST, Sminky 24 Sep 08 - 05:35 AM
RTim 24 Sep 08 - 08:23 AM
GUEST 24 Sep 08 - 08:31 AM
RTim 24 Sep 08 - 08:39 AM
Fidjit 24 Sep 08 - 03:40 PM
RTim 24 Sep 08 - 05:31 PM
GUEST,Cats 25 Sep 08 - 04:37 AM
Joseph P 25 Sep 08 - 04:48 AM
Joseph P 25 Sep 08 - 04:49 AM
GUEST,ruth without cookies 25 Sep 08 - 04:59 AM
GUEST, Sminky 25 Sep 08 - 05:12 AM
GUEST,John Cullimore 01 Dec 08 - 06:31 AM
Joe Offer 10 Sep 10 - 06:17 PM
GUEST, Sminky 01 Nov 10 - 06:32 AM
GUEST,John Moulden 01 Nov 10 - 09:15 AM
GUEST, Sminky 01 Nov 10 - 09:48 AM
Brian Peters 01 Nov 10 - 10:35 AM
GUEST, Sminky 01 Nov 10 - 11:01 AM
Brian Peters 01 Nov 10 - 11:34 AM
Fidjit 01 Nov 10 - 12:41 PM
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Subject: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:40 PM

All the songs from Alfred Williams' Folksongs of the Upper Thames are now online. The (searchable) site also includes songs collected by RVW, Gardiner, Hammond etc in the Wiltshire area. 1071 in all. Great stuff!

Wiltshire Community History site


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: RTim
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:47 PM

This is a great resource, however it is such a pity that Williams (who is one of my all time Heroes, did not collect ANY tunes. However, don't let that stop you examining this wonderful site. Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:54 PM

We have one Chris Wildridge to thank for this, which I do gladly. See this Mustrad article.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:21 PM

Yes, an excellent resource. I'm upto the letter G and I've already found some absolute treasures not in FSUT. It could do with a bit of tweaking, alt titles, Roud numbers, proof reading, but still a marvellous resource. Well done to Chris Wildridge. I hope he was suitably rewarded for his pains. Perhaps at a later date someone will be able to add possible tune sources where they exist. Those songs included from other collections like RVW, Collinson and MacColl will of course have the tunes recorded somewhere.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 05:02 AM

Roud numbers are there, Steve, which should help with alternative titles. Indeed you can search by Roud number.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: Fidjit
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 11:49 AM

Great!
Nice bit about Elija Iles, whom Alfred collected Carrion Crow from.

listen here to my version.

I shall have to set off more time to study this site more.

Thanks for the link Sminky.

Chas


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 02:35 PM

Only about half have Roud numbers at present. I'm sure this can be easily remedied. I'll do it myself when I've finished printing off those not in FSUT if it hasn't been done by then.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 05:07 AM

According to Wiltshire Folk Arts:

"Chris Wildridge has completed the transciption of all the Alfred Williams songs attributed to Wiltshire. He intends to make the transcripts available on the web together with appropriate tunes where they can be identified. We will endeavour to work alongside him in this fine body of information and add links and additional information as and where we can."

(my emphasis)

Sounds like there is yet more to come.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST,Joe P at Work
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 05:13 AM

...I mean, I heard a lot about this book, used a lot by Spiers and Boden and a few others, a lot were collected from my village and the surrounding area, fascinating!


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 05:35 AM

I've just noticed that the song total has gone up since yesterday (2 added). I think we must regard this very much as a work in progress.

Yes, Joe, it's a very important book - and a very honest one. Williams collected the songs the people actually sang, even though he knew or suspected some were not 'genuine' folksongs. And he only noted those songs where he had evidence that they had been sung in the area.

I know of no other work which provides such an insight into the rural folksinging tradition.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: RTim
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 08:23 AM

I have been interested in Alfred Williams for many many years, and was lucky enough to find (can't remember where) a copy of his Biography - Alfred Williams - His Life and Work by Leonard Clark, first published in 1945 by William George's Sons, and then in 1969 by Redwood Press Ltd. It is a fascinating book about him with loads of details. Later I also found a copy of - Round About Middle Thames - Glimpses of Rural Victorian Life, which is Williams's writings selected from - Round About the Upper Thames and Round About the Middle Thames - put together by Michael Justin Davis and published in 1982 Alan Sutton Publishing. This give many interesting details of the singers and their lives. I have also made many trips to South Marston to find the house that Williams built for himself - however nowadays the village it totally dominated by the huge Honda Factory - I wonder what Alfred would have said? Tim Radford.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 08:31 AM

Didn't he teach himself Sanskrit, Tim?


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: RTim
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 08:39 AM

Yes - he did teach himself Sanskrit - Left school very young, worked as a Hammerman at the Swindon Railway works, then Wrote poetry, built a house, became a Strawberry grower, this is while collecting songs and information about the people around him - Then died only aged 53!!! - an amazing man. Tim R


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: Fidjit
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 03:40 PM

Tim

Hallo

And I worked for a while at Swindon's "Pressed Steel" making car roofs and doors. (late 50's)

Interesting about Alfred. I have the Upper Thames book of course.

Do you have the ISBN number of the biography ?

Chas


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: RTim
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 05:31 PM

Hi Chas, The only number I can find in the book (normal first page info) is: 7153 4456 0 - and I assume this is the ISBN? I did a search on Google of the author and title - and was surprised to find many copies for sale online. Good luck if you are looking for a copy. Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 04:37 AM

Online is great but there's still nothing like opening a book.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: Joseph P
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 04:48 AM

Church Green Books in Witney, Oxfordshire had a copy of this book,

here

they should have a catalogue of current titles available.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: Joseph P
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 04:49 AM

well that didnt work

http://www.witneyandwoodstock.org.uk/CGBnew/about.html


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST,ruth without cookies
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 04:59 AM

Joe, before I looked at the website I thought the Tanner family repertoire consisted mainly of Waterboys songs... :)

Reading the notes, there are some salutory lessons for current Bampton residents: Charles Tanner is described as a bed-ridden cripple thanks to injuries sustained through Morris dancing! Mind you take care of your ankles...


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:12 AM

Tim,

I found a website authored by AW's great-great-nephew Ian Williams, who says

"I live on a piece of land that my family have owned for over 250 years. The land also belonged to my great great uncle ALFRED WILLIAMS who was a well known swindon/wilts/oxon area poet and author [1877-1935]".

His contact details (including full postal address) are posted on the site. He should be able to help you find out more about the Williams' property.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST,John Cullimore
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 06:31 AM

I too have been inspired by Alfred Williams to write a musical biography - a tribute which has just gone into CD production and will be available on line soon at cdbaby.com , but early details are on my website www.johncullimore.co.uk/


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 06:17 PM

Also note Studies in Folk-Song and Popular Poetry, by Alfred M. Williams (1895) - available at Google Books.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 06:32 AM

Unfortunately, this great resource appears to have vanished, literally overnight (Thurs 28th Oct). I can find no announcement or expanantion on the Wiltshire.gov website.

If anyone knows what has happened to it, or can find out, would they please post here. This is too precious to lose.

Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 09:15 AM

It should be noted that the Alfred Williams being discussed in this thread is the song collector and local historian from Swindon in Wiltshire. Alfred M. Williams was a Providence, Rhode Island, newspaper editor who accumulated a collection of Irish ballad sheets (now in Providence Public Library) and was the author of several books, the one mentioned above by Joe Offer and this one: Williams, Alfred M: (1881)Poets and Poetry of Ireland with historical and Critical Essays and notes, (Boston)among them.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 09:48 AM

Thanks John.

Panic over - I've managed to find the site.

The address this week is:

http://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/folksongsintro.php


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: Brian Peters
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 10:35 AM

Can anyone get the search facility to work? I've just tried to search a song that I know to be in the collection by Roud No., and it's coming up blank.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 11:01 AM

Worked OK for me, Brian. I searched by title, then Roud No. - found it both times.

Earlier in this thread we established that only about half have Roud numbers, so maybe that's the answer.


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: Brian Peters
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 11:34 AM

I was looking for the version of Child 1 (Roud 161) - but should have read the thread properly!


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Subject: RE: Folksongs of the Upper Thames ONLINE
From: Fidjit
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 12:41 PM

Ah. Wiltshire. My old hunting ground and soon to be it again.

Looking forward to returning soon.

In the early 60's I helped build most of, what was then, Swindon New Town.

Yes. Yes. Blame me.


Can highly recommend the Alfred Williams collection.

Chas


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