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Gay Community -- 100% BS!

emily rain 09 Jun 99 - 08:06 PM
katlaughing 09 Jun 99 - 08:21 PM
emily rain 09 Jun 99 - 08:24 PM
katlaughing 09 Jun 99 - 08:36 PM
Peter T. 09 Jun 99 - 09:57 PM
Rosebrook 09 Jun 99 - 10:08 PM
DonMeixner 09 Jun 99 - 10:22 PM
The Shambles 10 Jun 99 - 02:47 AM
Brian Hoskin 10 Jun 99 - 02:56 AM
The Shambles 10 Jun 99 - 02:59 AM
The Shambles 10 Jun 99 - 03:01 AM
SeanM 10 Jun 99 - 03:33 AM
Steve Parkes 10 Jun 99 - 03:45 AM
Neil Lowe 10 Jun 99 - 06:48 AM
Art Thieme 10 Jun 99 - 10:05 AM
emily rain 10 Jun 99 - 11:39 AM
SeanM 10 Jun 99 - 01:50 PM
The Shambles 10 Jun 99 - 01:53 PM
The Shambles 10 Jun 99 - 08:25 PM
Roddy 10 Jun 99 - 08:30 PM
Roddy 10 Jun 99 - 08:36 PM
Captain Swing 10 Jun 99 - 08:45 PM
Jeri 10 Jun 99 - 09:48 PM
emily rain 11 Jun 99 - 01:22 AM
emily rain 11 Jun 99 - 01:51 AM
KingBrilliant 11 Jun 99 - 05:20 AM
SueH 11 Jun 99 - 08:50 AM
Bert 11 Jun 99 - 09:51 AM
Jeri 11 Jun 99 - 11:25 AM
SeanM 11 Jun 99 - 02:11 PM
Roddy 11 Jun 99 - 04:42 PM
Bert 11 Jun 99 - 05:24 PM
Rick Fielding 11 Jun 99 - 07:25 PM
SueH 11 Jun 99 - 07:53 PM
Bert 11 Jun 99 - 07:55 PM
The Shambles 11 Jun 99 - 07:59 PM
Jeri 11 Jun 99 - 11:56 PM
SueH 12 Jun 99 - 07:20 AM
SueH 12 Jun 99 - 08:10 AM
Jeri 12 Jun 99 - 12:09 PM
SueH 12 Jun 99 - 05:59 PM
Jeri 12 Jun 99 - 08:48 PM
SueH 13 Jun 99 - 05:58 AM
Jeri 13 Jun 99 - 10:04 AM
Penny S. 13 Jun 99 - 11:26 AM
catspaw49 13 Jun 99 - 11:32 AM
Penny S. 13 Jun 99 - 11:36 AM
katlaughing 14 Jun 99 - 10:50 AM
danl 14 Jun 99 - 11:32 AM
SueH 14 Jun 99 - 11:44 AM
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Subject: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: emily rain
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 08:06 PM

yo yo, debators. i agree with shambles that this should now be a separate thread. absolutely no songs allowed!

okay, here are my feelings about the gay community. shambles, was it you who said we (queers) should risk a diminishment of our (illusory) safety in order to mesh with the larger society? i totally agree. i absolutely believe that GLBT's should hold hands, dance, smooch, and exchange audible words of love with each other way out in the open, in front of god and all straight folks. in fact, that's the heart of what being "out of the closet" means. however, if you've ever felt the looks, the jabs, the whispers, and the semi-polite requests to take that filth elsewhere, you'll know how unbelievably exhausting it can be. it's hard work to be different, and day after day after day of that kind of emotional stress can drive a person bonkers. and here is where the gay community performs its most valuable service. every now and then, it feels really good to be among people you can trust to understand you and treat you with kindness.

more in a moment...


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 08:21 PM

Couldn'ta said it better, m'slef, emily! kat


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: emily rain
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 08:24 PM

susanne is absolutely right when she says that the gay community is not exclusive. ideally, it's composed of all flavors of queers and their allies -- friends, family, and the open-minded members of the general hetero public. shambles, as a demonstrated non-homophobe and thoughtful debator, i invite you to consider yourself an ally and member of the gay community. that is, if you'll have us. :)

i would also like to point out that the gay community is composed of real people who have their own real prejudices to deal with. there are man-hating lesbians, woman-hating gaymen, bi-hating homo's, homo- and hetero-hating bi's, jew-hating afro-americans, indian-hating whites... and there are queers who hate straight people. and there are androgenous queers who hate the butch-femme dichotomy, and vice versa. there are queers who are afraid to include the transgendered in the gay community, because they might "look bad".

so even though the gay community is always available as a temporary retreat from the homophobic masses, there is no gay utopia. there are plenty of people who believe that if they surround themselves entirely with people who are just like them, all their problems will be solved... but i believe they're dangerously misguided. the gay community is a resource, not a cloister, and those who treat it as such are in for a nasty surprise.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 08:36 PM

Susanne(skw): Thank you so much for your words and for posting those two songs. Those are so poignant and meaningful to so many I know. Is the second one yours?

katlaughing, waiting for emily's next, eloquent, succinct and right on the money posting!


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 09:57 PM

My problem is not coming out of the closet, mine is getting in to the closet. Some of us disorganized heterosexuals have limited closet space, which always seems to be filled to the hangar level and above with bottles, shoes, tennis racquets, fishing tackle, and old National Geographics. Can any of you specialists in coming out of the closet shed some light on how you got in first, and found enough room to turn around in to come back out again? Also, when you get out, how do you move fast enough to get the door closed behind you before the avalanche begins?
(Joke everyone, joke, joke!)
Yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Rosebrook
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 10:08 PM

One of the terms that really annoys me (while we're talking about the "gay community") is the term "gay lifestyle". What is that really supposed to mean?!

I'll share with you *my* gay lifestyle:

Wake up, get ready for work, get the kids up, help get them ready for school, kiss them and my sweetie pie good-bye and wish them a good day, feed the dogs.

Go to work, work a lot some days, not so much on other days, (depends on how many customers we have), kibbitz around with the people I work with (Yiddish non-sexual term which means chat, joke, chum with), eat lunch, more work.

Call the kids after school and remind them of their chores, come home, help with kids' homework, make dinner, do a myriad of activities from go to gym, play music, play basketball with the kids, play ping-pong with my sweetie, cruise the web, pay bills, watch a movie, help do more homework, visit with family or friends, go to school function, take dogs to the beach, etc., etc., etc.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is no "gay lifestyle". There's life and there's people.

Rose


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: DonMeixner
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 10:22 PM

Jeepers Rose what a similar life we lead! Is it possible that except for a very small diference as to whom I call "Sweetie" that we aren't so diferent in the way we live?

Since I'm not Gay but that is my lifestyle perhaps I'll call it a Human Lifestyle and get about the business of it.

Don


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 02:47 AM

Thank you Emily, for both what you said, which in this one posting said it far better than my bumbling attempts and also for your kind invitation, which I will accept with great pleasure.

I am sorry if my views are not thought of as sympathetic to the situations you may find youselves personally, I am indeed that.

In the wider view I just ask myself what is more important, sympathy or acceptance.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 02:56 AM

I've got no wise words or experiences to share, I just found the thread and, having done so, would like to offer my love and support to one and all.

Brian


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 02:59 AM

This thread continued from THIS ONE


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 03:01 AM

No it didn't. I will fix it later. Got go now.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: SeanM
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 03:33 AM

I'll admit... I'm a hetero man, been seriously accused (and abused) as being gay, discriminated against due to sexual orientation, but all this still leaves me a bit muddled...

First, the personal details... White, hetero male. Next, I unfortunately can see almost all of the sides going on here. Commuting heavily between LA and San Francisco, and with the friends and social activities I have, I have MANY friends and associates who are gay, bi, or whatever else they feel they need to be.

To Shambles and Co., I've seen some of what you speak of. Some of my more... 'militant' friends live in a very tightly knit and isolationist community. I believe that this is some of what Shambles speaks of as unhealthy, and I fully concur. They refuse to have almost any contact with the outside world, instead keeping to their own circuit of bars and friends. Any suggestion to go anywhere else (including other 'family' friendly locations) is met with derision and abuse. Sadly, I have friends of several orientations that fit this category... racial, sexual, professional orientation doesn't seem to matter. It's still an unhealthy lifestyle that stunts their interpersonal relationship.

To Kat, Rose and the rest... I also have seen what you speak of. I lived for a year in the heart of the local 'gay ghetto', as a guest of some gay friends of mine. I've been subjected to abuse as a gay man, even while being completely hetero. I can say that it was a rare occurence, even when discussed amongst my friends... I'd personally say that I see the 'discrimination tolerance' towards gay as decreasing, but still needing to be worked on by the world at large.

I will share one thing worth noting. I'm part of a large organized entertainment event. We end up camped out in a large cluster (1500 or so people) on weekends for about 5 months a year. A large number of different races and orientations perform. One of the things that gives me hope for this world is the fact that we all mingle, people are mostly free to express whatever they feel for whoever they wish, and the general feeling is 'live and let live'. The only discrimination I've ever seen is towards bigots of all stripes. It's just not tolerated, but has ceased to be an issue amongst us.

One small part of the world down, the rest to go.

M


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 03:45 AM

I'm perfectly happy "that GLBT's should hold hands, dance, smooch, and exchange audible words of love with each other way out in the open, in front of god and all straight folks", as emily puts it. I think I would prefer to draw the line at bonkers, though!

Steve


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 06:48 AM

In a world where there is such a paucity of this most essential ingredient, I'm for any kind of love: gay; straight; brotherly; sisterly; fatherly; motherly; platonic; whatever. Any of the aforementioned are preferable to the myriad forms of unproductive feelings that abound. More love of any kind (traditional or hybrid) can only be an asset, not a liability.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 10:05 AM

"Unhealthy" you say? It's just "what is". We've got Mother Teresa and John Wayne Gacy. Hitler and Gandhi. Clinton and Monica. Liz and Richard. Jeffrey Dahmer and Vegetarians. Generals and Anti-Nuke folks. Salt and Pepper. Traddies and Singer/Songwriters. Haters and Lovers. Live-And -Let-Live folks and Kill-Em-All folks. Us and Them. Those and These. Outgroups exist for recognition from the Ingroups. Dig it all. Mellow Out (or In). ;-) Try, "Joyous participation in the sorrows of the world!" It's an amazing parade (me thinks) that we have before is.

May you live in interesting times!!! ;-) (not a curse at all--unless, of course, it "is a curse"--as we view/see it individually).

Love, Art

Art


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: emily rain
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 11:39 AM

oh, i'm so glad to see all this lovin'!


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: SeanM
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 01:50 PM

Not being defensive, but explicatory...

By 'unhealthy' I was referring to a few friends of mine's insistence on never looking beyond a small (very small) group of friends and locations, and almost violently rejecting anything that might make them expand this circle. It's more than just sexual orientation... I know people from a couple of social groups like that. Sadly, the longer they stay stagnant, the less they stay friends. Variety is the spice of life, and these people are living the life of pablum.

M


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 01:53 PM

Sorry about the earlier link, there some good stuff there too, but this is Where it all started.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 08:25 PM

Being very defensive.

Sean I have checked, before Jeri does and I did not say unhealty. No arguments with the rest of you post though.

Rose

I address this to you, re your comments on the 'lifestyle'. Your post was wonderful common sense and made me smile because of the reference I made earlier, if your remember, to the Gaytime BBC TV show? It is described as "a magazine programme for the gay and lesbian community".

It is that I would like tell you about and would be interested in hearing views on these types of 'specialist' programme?

It obvious is not aimed at me and I can appreciate that the majority of programmes are not aimed at gay people. So I suppose it's only fair that I should be made to watch it?

It was the first of a new series and to be honest I did not see all of it. My wife however did and she informed me that there was a serious treatment on the show of the recent bombing, here in the UK of a 'gay' pub and targeting other minority groups. Click Here For More Details etc..

For the item that I did see it is necessary to describe the presenters, not for me to make any judgement or comment on them or their lifestyle, but just so people who have not seen it are aware of what the general viewer here is seeing and the contrast between the packaging and the content (that I saw).

They are two people who have both obviously been body-building. Rhona Cameron and Richard Fairbrass (the shaven-headed, ex lead singer for the pop band, Right Said Fred). They handed over to another presenter, for the filmed O.B. item I saw, unfortunately I didn't get her name, but she was dressed in a collar and tie.

This item was introduced as "why there are a lot of lesbians in the small town of Hebden Bridge in Yorkshire". It was NOT a spoof on this type of programme, but it well could have been and I had to keep asking myself if I was dreaming it. I kept waiting for Monty Python's, Graham Chapman, dressed in army uniform to march in and say "this is getting too silly" and move them all on to the next sketch.

The presenter was asking the inhabitants about this. None of them really seemed to know if there were a lot of lesbians there but seemed to agree when told by her that there were, but didn't appear at all surprised or put out by the concept.

Some of these lesbians were eventually found. We were told they were lesbians, but they were not body-builders or dressed like men and looked and sounded pretty much like all the other people she interviewed. When asked why they lived there, they gave all the same answers that anyone choosing to live anywhere would give. "It was a nice place to live", "not too far from a number of big towns", that sort of thing.

When told by the interviewer that " there are a lot of lesbians with children living here". One woman, who appeared to me to be rather more preoccupied at that moment, in actually looking after her children, replied that "there are a lot of lesbians with children, everywhere". I think I must have dozed off at that juncture, so if there was ever a point for this item to make, other than Hebden Bridge was a nice place to live (before it was overrun by lesbian mothers and interviewers looking for them) I missed it. I do hope however that it remains a nice place to live, for all those living there.

The point I got from it (and I think the one that Rose was making) was that despite the best efforts of the show, to make it something else, "the gay and lesbian community" were just getting on with their lives, like and along with everyone else in Hebden Bridge. Which I think is great, but where was the news?

If they had set out to demonstrate the ordinary nature of the situation of gay people living ordinary lives and being largely accepted in the community, it would have made a lot more sense than it did with this treatment.

Why the exotic presenters? Why the programme? Are these programmes helpful at all? Did I miss something?

If you are still awake, after that, I can give you the details of next weeks show? I wouldn't miss it for the world. Seriously though, I will give it the benefit of the doubt and do my best to try to stay awake for the whole show next week.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Roddy
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 08:30 PM

Excuse me, but what the hell has this to do with folk music ?

I suppose the next thread we'll have here is paedophilia and all the excuses that can be devised to justify it.

And again I ask, WHAT THE HELL HAS THIS TO DO WITH ANY SORT OF MUSIC, never mind Folk Music?

In over fifty years involvement in Trad. Music, I have


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Roddy
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 08:36 PM

to continue:- .... never come across any reference to anything other than normal sexual relations. If the "gay" community are as "normal" and as numerous as they claim, why - considering their recent emergence as "artistic" gurus - haven't they appeared before now ? Every other facet of the Human condition has. Roddy.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Captain Swing
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 08:45 PM

Roddy, after 50 years of traditional music ( and all those raffles) you probably need a nice cup of tea and a good lie down.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jun 99 - 09:48 PM

I was going to ask Shambles what he meant by "Sean I have checked, before Jeri does and I did not say unhealty."

Then I read the results of Roddy's encounter with the "submit message" button, and I started wondering what the heck a guy who doesn't want to read about this subject was doing clicking on it, and whether he knew what the "BS" in the title meant, or whether he knew about closets and society's penchant for denying what they don't want to see. Then I read Capt Swing's message and, after regaining control, decided it was probably the best possible answer.

To be completely honest with everyone, I'm heterosexual. Being 44 years old and never married, I have frequently been assumed to be a lesbian. It didn't help that I was in the military, and it really didn't help that I frequently mouthed off about the stupid "don't ask, don't tell" policy, and the excuses for it.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: emily rain
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 01:22 AM

Dear Captain Swing,

You are the funniest person in all the world.

Love, Emily


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: emily rain
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 01:51 AM

hey, roddy, here's a quote for ya:

[i found it in a dusty musicology book entitled _queering_the_pitch_ (har har), and it was from a female musicologist who had just given a talk on lesbian composers at a works-in-progress colloquium.]

"I could see standards in the smile of the lovely young straight woman, a scholarly star who teaches the Schoenberg seminar. She told me (in rarified diction I dare not imitate) that music was independent of the body. In response I wanted to strip her naked and lick her body head to toe while humming Bessie Smith's 'I've been mistreated and I don't like it.'"

dear, dear roddy... perhaps you won't fully comprehend the wonderfulness of that quote. but please keep looking; it's in there somewhere.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 05:20 AM

I do hope Roddy wasn't seriously drawing parallels between gays & paedophiles. The first is about who you love and requires no justification, and the second is about control and abuse and cannot be justified.

Hmph.

Kris


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: SueH
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 08:50 AM

I've come late to this thread, having been off-line for leisure purposes at least, since the beginning of the week.

I've read back through this & the previous thread, & am not about to quote anyone as I'll only get muddled & misquote. But like SeanM, I can see all sides & I think that (BIG BIG 'NOI intended' here) some of the difficulty in understanding each others' views is stemming from our countries of origin. I can sympathise which much of what Shambles has said, & I certainly didn't read his initial postings as homophobic in any way. We seem to have been very lucky indeed in the UK over recent years, in that, in the main, we have avoided experiencing too many ultra-extreme, or violent reactions to minority groups. I am trying to choose my words very carefully here.

I suspect this colours our reactions in just the same way as, for those of you in other areas, the experiences you are aware of will have coloured yours.

I am married (I know), heterosexual (I think), & have a circle of friends of whom, at a guess, about 25% are gay. My brother-in-law is also gay. Some of them are 'out of the closet', some not. Some frequent the gay scene, some don't. But I have met them all through their other various interests - quite a number are members of the Cat Fancy, & no, I don't think they became cat breeders because there are other gays involved.

I have never seen anyone react to any of them in an offensive manner, which is not to say that it doesn't happen - but for the most part they are leading their lives as individuals rather than as factions of a group. Perhaps if they were militant gays or lesbians then this wouldn't be the case; but as far as I'm aware the Gay Pride marches though London have been very peaceable & my brother-in-law has always gone on them. Not incognito either - anyone who saw a clip of the 1997 Gay Pride march on TV a few days ago, with 3 'girls' in flamboyant pink & turquoise dresses - he was one of them! My daughter has also marched with him for the last 2 years.

Usually I seem to be blithely unaware of people's sexual proclivities, & am just as likely to assume people are gay when they're not, as the reverse.

So no, I'm not anti-gay. In fact, the only thing I'm anti is (are?) those forming part of highly agressive groups intent on thrusting their beliefs in other people's faces - minority groups or otherwise. They just invite agression & suspicion in return.

I'm also a pacifist & I'm not intending to start or prolong any arguments here, as I hope you can see. I daresay my viewpoint might be different if I was gay, or if I was a member of any minority group living in a very intolerant area. But I can only go by my own experiences & those of the people I come into contact with, & surely that is all any of us can do. We need to keep open minds in order to learn from others we come into contact with and their experiences, and I am bitterly sorry if anyone, of any race, colour or persuasion, becomes a victim because of the intolerance of those who feel themselves unable to accept that not everybody is the same as them.

Oh and Jeri, if you're still following this thread & have read through my undirected waffle, I now realise you're a girl, I'd assumed you were male! But I don't care. Tam Lin have done some kitchen recordings which include Sweetness of Mary, & are also producing a CD in July, but in the meantime I shall see if the tape is good enough to put some sound clips on the web site.

SueH


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Bert
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 09:51 AM

Roddy, The thread title says '100% BS' This means it's just chat - not necessarily about folk music. In this case it 'is' about folk, us folk.

A person's sexual preference is what it is. The whole range of preferences that humans exhibit 'is' what is 'normal', that's the way we are.

Personally I am very suspicious of those who show an inclination to control the sexual activities of others.

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 11:25 AM

Did I mention I've not only been mistaken for a lesbian - I've been mistaked for a male as well. Good thing I didn't just say "I prefer men" - that really would have confused things.

There is a danger when discussing "society" of believing all of it, everywhere, must be the same as what we see around us. During the short two years I lived in England, I got the impression people were more far more tolerant of personal differences than the were in the US. I don't know why that should be, and the observation is completely subjective. I saw an elderly woman sit down on a bench at a bus stop and strike up a conversation with a mohawk-coiffed, leather clad punker. In the US, that woman would probably have gotten as far away from him as possible, and stared.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: SeanM
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 02:11 PM

Amen to that one Jeri. Having been the young lad sitting on the bench at one point (and at 6' 5", a fairly imposing young lad), I can vouch for the fact that it doesn't take differing race, orientation or what have you. Discrimination just plain sucks, and it doesn't matter what form it takes.

M


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Roddy
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 04:42 PM

I was under the impression that this whole site was concerned with Folk / Traditional Music of all arts and parts ( I nearly said "odds and sods" but thought better of it). I repeat my question what has ths whole thread got to do with Folk / Traditional Music ? Surely, there must be plenty of sites where people can discuss their sexual proclivities. As for reading the contributions, I was curious to know what the connection was with Music. I am still wondering. Roddy.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Bert
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 05:24 PM

Roddy,

This is not a moderated site, we can talk about anything we like.

This particular thread is an offshoot of a thread that was a request for songs. It started to drift away from the original intent, so this thread was started; the BS tag in the thread title was to inform people that it wasn't necessarily about music. So that's the connection, it was spawned from an earlier thread. You'll find a lot of thread drift here, it's one of the things we love about the Mudcat.

So feel free to start a thread about "odds and sods" if you like. In fact there was a thread about colloquialisms a few weeks ago which may have mentioned that expression, or if it didn't it should have.

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 07:25 PM

King, King, King! Is there any doubt that Roddy is comparing a gay lifestyle with pedophilia? I've re-read his postings (even the multiple ones) for traces of irony and humour and there ain't none. If you really want to get ticked off roddy,(can I call you Rod) check out the thread with phallic sailor names. click here for a good time
Sometimes we do get silly here at the "cat".


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: SueH
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 07:53 PM

I think Jeri is right, I was trying to avoid putting it into words but I do think there is more tolerance here. Obviously it varies from place to place, but I think in general there is more of a tendency to take people at their individual value, rather than as part of a group, whatever that group might be. As I said in my previous posting, I can understand how those who've witnessed more violent forms of discrimination may feel far more strongly about it & be far more sensitive to subtleties of interpretation as well. But surely this is the point, from whoever's side you're looking at it - strong feelings & violent behaviour set off chain reactions.

Having teenage children helps no end when it comes to learning not to judge by appearances as well, the punk rocker you saw was probably someone's nice son, Jeri (well, most people are, aren't they?)!

Were you mistaken for a gay man or a straight man, Jeri? Sorry, just being silly.

Perhaps we should start a thread about inuendo - although come to think of it, there must be at least one lurking around already!

Sue


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Bert
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 07:55 PM

SueH,

You're right there is more tolerance here. We even tolerate Roddy although we give him a hard time.

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 07:59 PM

Emily said

"i would also like to point out that the gay community is composed of real people who have their own real prejudices to deal with. there are man-hating lesbians, woman-hating gaymen, bi-hating homo's, homo- and hetero-hating bi's, jew-hating afro-americans, indian-hating whites... and there are queers who hate straight people. and there are androgenous queers who hate the butch-femme dichotomy, and vice versa. there are queers who are afraid to include the transgendered in the gay community, because they might "look bad"."

It does not sound too much different to the 'conventional' society our Roddy lives in, does it?

Because of his contribution, it makes this thread all the more important for us all to contribute to.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 11:56 PM

SueH - I've only been mistaken for a guy on the internet, and nobody ever flirted with me. Anyway, I wouldn't have known if it was a woman flirting with someone she thought was a guy, or a guy flirting with someone he though was a guy, or a guy flirting with a woman who he thought was pretending to be a guy, or...


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: SueH
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 07:20 AM

Ah.....

this is of course the advantage of having a name like Sue - unless you're Johnny Cash, presumably everyone knows what gender you are.

Mind you I use the name Polly at work & when it comes to email from other parts of the world, I'd say at least 70% of them assume I'm male. Sometimes I have the same difficulty with them, & in the end, can't avoid asking.

Sue


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: SueH
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 08:10 AM

Where were you when you were in the UK, Jeri? Were you with the USAF?

Seue


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 12:09 PM

I was stationed at RAF Upper Heyford from '79 - '81. It was located just outside Bicestershire (which could be an entry in the "Misspoken" thread.) The closest I got to folk music while I was there was listening to "Folk on 2."


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: SueH
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 05:59 PM

Folk on 2 was Pete Castle wasn't it - long since defunct, now there's a program which I think Mike Harding presents, lots of electronic stuff. I'm quoting from other people here, as I've never heard it.

I thought you might have been across this way at Chicksands. Did you like it here?

Sue


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 08:48 PM

Jim Lloyd did Fo2 - right up until Mike Harding took over. I loved England! The only drawback was that I had asthma when I was there. I've never had it before or since, and I have no other allergies.

Sue - maybe we should be talking by personal messages? We sort of took over the thread.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: SueH
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 05:58 AM

Hi Jeri

Have you got a profile? I think you can email me direct (ie, get my email address) as I am a member.. If you want to send me your email address, we can talk direct.

At least we seem to have killed off all the acrimony on this thread - everyone else has got bored with us!

Sue


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 10:04 AM

I feel like everyone has left the "room" to go somewhere else, and we're still standing around chatting.

SueH, I sent you a personal message with my email.


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 11:26 AM

Jeri - I suspect the Bicester asthma may have had something to do with Oxford Clay brickworks. I used to have to stop my car to check the tyres at junction 13 on the M1 because of the sulphurous smell like burning rubber.

Penny


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 11:32 AM

You are experiencing Mudcat Thread Phenomena Phase II (you've gone past "thread creep" and have moved on to "thread blown all to hell." Not all that uncommon when a thread has kinda' run it's course.

catspaw


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 11:36 AM

"blown all to hell" just about fits it!

Penny


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 10:50 AM

"Here I am to save the thread" (Imagine ole' Mighty Mouse singing his hero-refrain)!

Just found this great quote and decided this might be the best place to put it:

"As I grow older
And totter towards the tomb
I find I care less and less
Who goes to bed with whom.
- Dorothy Sayers -


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: danl
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 11:32 AM

katlaughing

tee hee hee! i havent laughed out loud like that in ages! i think ive just found a new motto for all my gossip-obsessed friends.... (sorry. you can now carry on with saveing the thread !)

love ivy b*


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Subject: RE: Gay Community -- 100% BS!
From: SueH
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 11:44 AM

What a great rhyme!

I wouldn't mind betting Dorothy Parker said something somewhere which could be applicable, as well.

Sue


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