The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire

Subject: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Compton
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 11:48 AM

Hello, dancing Mudcatters...I've acquired an old copy (4/-) of five dances from Ashover. Does anyone know if there are any more? Or are "One More Dance and Then" and "Harper's Frolick" just tunes from the Harrison Wall Ms. Googling doesn't seem to tell me anything. Some Derbyshire knowledge would be an advantage!

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 08:01 PM

It would be interesting to know the exact title and publishing details of that book. The Ashover MS (Harrison & Wall, 1762-75) is indexed at the Village Music Project, and the 16 tunes it contains (most, at first glance, fairly well known at that time) are transcribed to ABC format there.

http://www.village-music-project.org.uk/a.htm

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 06:16 AM

YOu could also try getting in toouch with Sarah Matthews

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=333465113

who did an M.A. on Derbyshire folk music - though what precisely - you would have to ask her.

Also Hannah James from Kerfuffle is working in this area of study.

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Compton
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 07:30 AM

Thanks Malcolm, the booklet is a copy of the EFDS (sic) Sheffield Branch publication "Five Country Dances together with their tunes"..I don't think any longer published. I always thought there may be other dances peculiar to that area...I know Roger Watson and New Victory Band did a lot. But not living within the confines of Derbyshire means my dabblings have ground to a halt!

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Snuffy
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 09:14 AM

EFDS is correct: according to the VMP website, the Sheffield Branch publication dates from 1927. It was not till the thirties that EFDS merged with the Folk Song Society to form EFDSS.

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 10:17 AM

Thanks. Always best to give a book its title. With that information, I can add some background.

Five Country Dances together with their tunes was published by the Sheffield branch of the English Folk Dance Society in 1927 (a few years prior to amalgamation with the Folk-Song Society) containing the following dances, with facsimiles from the MS:

The Russian Dance
Bonnie Cate
Major O'Flacherty
The Duchess of Hamilton's Rant
The Black Boy

It was apparently reprinted in 1936 and again some time after the war, the final edition being a pamphlet without the facsimiles and with Major O'Flacherty's Jig omitted. From comments made on the ECD list some years ago, it appears that the transcribed dance instructions may not correspond very closely to the originals. Only the tunes are transcribed at the Village Music Project.

A brief notice appeared in EFDS News, number 16, February 1928, 87-8:

The "Ashover" Country Dances.

The Sheffield Branch of the E.F.D.S. has published five Country Dances, transcribed from David Wall's manuscript, Ashover (Derbyshire), 1764. The publication contains facsimiles of the original manuscript together with the notation of the dances as transcribed by members of the Branch and the music arranged by G. F. Linfoot. The book is published at 4s. and can be obtained from the Hon. Secretary of the Branch, Miss H. Mawson, 80, Kenbourne Road, Sharrow, Sheffield.

David Wall was a bassoon player. There is a memorial plaque at All Saints' Church, Ashover, which appears from time to time in anthologies of epitaphs. It reads approximately (I haven't seen the original):

To the memory of David Wall
Whose superior performance on the bassoon endeared him
To an extensive musical acquaintance.
His social life closed on the 4th Dec. 1796. in his 57th year.

Of Joshua Harrison I know nothing.

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Compton
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 11:01 AM

Damn good (as ever), malcolm!..That's what I have in front of me!.. Only, obviously, now I seen the five...and now also, I've seen the tunes, I'm after more! Did Wall (or anyone else) "record" damces from that neck of the woods?

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: GUEST,Chris P
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 08:40 PM

I have a copy, and I can confirm that said book is an extract from the Harrison and Wall MS as on the VMP website.

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Compton
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 04:44 AM

Thank you Chris P....yes so can I...that's what set this whole train of thought off! Perhaps everyone is missing what I'm trying to delve into ...Are there more dances? (NOT TUNES!) The tunes are as said earlier in ABC format on the Village Project website. But I can't help thinking, why are there only five dances from that area !!!

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: GUEST,Dave Ball
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 06:09 AM

I can confirm that there are more dances in the Ashover MS - from memory I think every tune has an accompanying dance. I'll have an opportunity to check later this week, but don't have access to my photocopies at present. I know that New Victory Band used to give out the instructions for One More Dance and Then as part of their publicity material.

Dave

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Compton
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:57 AM

Thamks Dave....the info will be interesting to kmow. I look forward to it!

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: johnadams
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 11:38 AM

I have a photocopy of the manuscript in front of me.

There are dance instructions for:

The Black Boy
Bonny Cate
The Duchess of Hamilton's Rant
The Scotch Ramble
Harper's Frolick
London
The Fantocini
The Polygon
The Spanish Dance
One More Dance and Then..
Russian Dance
Major O'Flacherty
plus another which is indecipherable but might be something like Rockingham Hall.

I doubt that any of these are dances of local origin but would have been copied from nationally published dance books.

The next stage of the Village Music Project might well be to match the tunes in the various handwritten manuscripts with the published originals and just get a bit more info on where and when the dances first appeared.

Somewhere I have one of our New Victory Band publicity leaflets mentioned above - with One More Dance & Then detailed. When I find it I'll stick a scan up somewhere for info.

Johnny Adams - Village Music Project

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: GUEST,Jammy
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 12:38 PM

I am involved in organising the monthly concerts at Ashover Parish Hall and we are now also planning a small festival over the first weekend in July next year featuring as many local musicians singers and dancers. One idea we are considering is to include a dance featuring the Ashover Dances - anyone like to be involved or have any other ideas.

Kerfuffle will be at the event and Hannah James is hoping to be doing some workshops in local schools perhaps including the dances and tunes.

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: johnadams
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 12:42 PM

Sounds great. I'll happy provide any music and dance info you want.

J

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Compton
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 07:40 PM

You are all good people!!
I am intrigued about the other 7 (8?) dances. Have they disappeared into the ether. Also a dance I have tried and tried to obtain is one mentioned in Thomas Hardy "The Row Dow Dow"...great tune but no dance. But perhaps lets try for the missing Ashover Dances first! Good luck with the Ashover Village Hall dance, the five dances I've seen are not for the faint hearted...Trple Minor dances never are!!

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 03:42 AM

Allceilidh on Yahoo groups may add to this - I have posted for you. Try E-ceilidh - though you have to join & you have to stick to English Ceilidh subjects (this should qualify) Morris does not meet the approval of the Listmeister or Squares and Contra, Cajun Appalation etc. He does lurk hearabouts, tactically speaking.



(over to you Steve)

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: GUEST,Chris P
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 04:49 AM

Compton/Jammy.
The photocopies we have at VMP consist of both the original rather sparse and obscure very brief and typical of the time dance instructions, and also a fuller interpretation/development of same (in a 20thC hand that I've seen before [from the 70s? perhaps Roger Watson? does Johnny know?]) The originals are in Derby Library. I'll confer with JA over this, but I think the easiest thing to do, copyright allowing, would be to send you a copy by snail mail, so get in touch off list with Johnny or me with your address if they are of sufficient interest to you to pay for photocopies and postage.

Chris.

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Compton
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 05:05 AM

Mr Red...I should doubt that these dances are "English Ceilidh subjects. The dances are Contra in style and , whilst I accept that in 1764, the "lower classes" would treat the dances in a "ceilidh" style perhaps doing the dances 15 or 16 times, in todays taste (with perhaps the exception of one or two places) a ceilidh caller / chairman wouldn't touch them!!

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Compton
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 05:08 AM

Guest, Chris P I would post you my address but it does not appear that you are a Mudcat member where I could post you. Will try John A

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: GUEST,Chris P
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 09:08 AM

Compton. Yes, the clue is in the 'Guest,Chris P' bit I suppose. I should try Johnny. I'll see him this evening and he can pass it on to me.

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Chris Partington
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 09:11 AM

Or send it to me now that I'm a member.
Chris.

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 09:27 AM

Compton

Not knowing the dances specifically but it is worth a try on E-Ceilidh. If we can discuss the likes of Kerfuffle (have danced EC to them at Chippenham) and that memorable dance TAG (which comes from American Contra c 20th C) - it would not exercise the Listmeister unduly. Advertising an English Dance in Ashover would be in keeping - I would risk it but then I have got more than coughs from the Stormabahnfuhrer. On occasions.

And there are a lot of erudite callers who frequent the forum. Worth joining if only for a month or so. Allceilidh may produce a nugget but so far it has only suggest things already mentioned in this parish.

E-Ceilidh home page
rules

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 11:04 AM

response from Ian (Jethro) Anderson On Allceilidh - though he has kindly posted on E-ceilidh. Hope this helps.

Hmmm - I have memories of Mick Peat and (hmmm - forgotten her name)
getting a group of dancers together to do the dances from these ms
sometime back in the 70's. I remember seeing them perform/demonstrate
them at a festival at Alfreton (or was it Ripley ... it was in
some huge sports hall)

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: GUEST,CannieShieldsLaddie
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 12:00 PM

We also have memories of Mick Peat performing/teaching these dances at Whitby in the mid/late seventies with and Barry and Pauline Renforth.

And the group of dancers were "Harpers Frolic" .

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Compton
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 01:10 PM

I remember Mick Peat doing (some of?) these dances. He must have been spreading the word!! The tunes are universally pretty and it would be nice to have the other dances to match the tunes. Have PM'd
John Adams...sorry Chris, I was a bit off the mark...but welcome to Mudact. Perhaps we could have a Dance Forum within Mudcat !?!

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: danensis
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 02:22 PM

I live within walking distance of Ashover, so happy to help,

John

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Compton
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 07:14 PM

Madact?? Whoops!

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Compton
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 07:15 PM

Whoops again! Mudcat!...senility sets in!

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 03:21 AM

from Roger Watson on E-Ceilidh

The Ashover tunes and dances were originally compiled in a volume called 'The Saints & Sinners of Ashover'. This contained about a dozen dances (one without a specific tune, the others with tunes) mainly triple minors. There dance without a tune is the Rockingham Reel, which I have called on several occasions, usually adapted to 3-cpl. longways, rather than triple minor. I've had a go at most of them in workshop situations, many years ago. The 'Ashover Book' published in the 1920's by EFDSS is a collection of 5 of these dances, revamped for display purposes. I have called versions of Bonny Kate and of One More Dance & Then .... but the most frequent in the New Victory Band repertoire was Harper's Frolick.

Village Music Project is definitely the best place to find out more and probably to correct details of this senile ramble .... :-)

RW

Perhaps we could have a Dance Forum within Mudcat !?! that is wot some folks call a permathread - I submit. PM Joe Offer and ask.

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Mo the caller
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:32 AM

Sounds too wideranging for a permathread. How about a category same as Lyric required, etc. that pops up when you start a new thread.

Jammy have you got a caller for your Ashover dances dance? Sounds interesting. I know I've danced Bonnie Cate, but can't remember if it was a club dance or the sort of thing you could do for the public.
How about a workshop to teach some of the Ashover dances, followed by an evening dance with a more flexible programme which could include some (as well as easier dances like that old Derbyshire standby Winster Galop).

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Colin Hume
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 02:11 AM

I know this is an old thread, but I've just come across it.  I'm thinking of producing my own interpretations of the Ashover Dances and making them available on my website http://www.colinhume.com

Chris P. says the originals are in Derby Library.  I contacted them to see if I could get good photocopies of the original manuscript but they say they can't find any reference to it.  Can anyone provide any information?

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Chris Partington
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 12:58 PM

PM'd you Colin.

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: GUEST,Zoe Bremer
Date: 24 Jan 11 - 08:47 AM

I understand that the originals are in the Derbyshire County Archives in Matlock (a bit of a trek up the hill but worth the effort).

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 07:40 AM

I have a copy of the privately produced booklet that Roger refers to. Do you have this Colin?

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 08:19 AM

There is at least one clog dance from Glossop (in Derbyshire).

Crooked Steeple Morris claim that they perform dances from Derbyshire, so you could try contacting them. They may know other dances or have more information.

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: GUEST,Colin Hume
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 07:39 AM

My interpretations and discussion are now available at http://www.colinhume.com/deashover.htm

The page is not yet complete, and I'd welcome comments on it.

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 09:59 AM

A great resource! And a lot of work!
Derek

Subject: RE: The Dances of Ashover, Derbyshire
From: Mo the caller
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 04:50 PM

How many of them are you planning to give us at Lichfield?