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Lyr Req: Romany songs

GUEST,mg 26 Sep 08 - 01:33 PM
GUEST,PeterC 26 Sep 08 - 02:19 PM
GUEST,PeterC 26 Sep 08 - 02:23 PM
romany man 26 Sep 08 - 02:44 PM
Jim Carroll 26 Sep 08 - 03:14 PM
bankley 26 Sep 08 - 04:48 PM
Tradsinger 26 Sep 08 - 04:58 PM
romany man 27 Sep 08 - 04:24 AM
tradpiper 27 Sep 08 - 06:49 AM
Jim Carroll 27 Sep 08 - 07:26 AM
Willa 27 Sep 08 - 08:58 AM
mg 27 Sep 08 - 01:14 PM
GUEST,bankley 27 Sep 08 - 08:03 PM
GUEST 28 Sep 08 - 05:30 PM
GUEST 29 Sep 08 - 08:34 AM
GUEST,Suffolk Miracle 29 Sep 08 - 12:54 PM
romany man 29 Sep 08 - 02:39 PM
VirginiaTam 29 Sep 08 - 03:31 PM
bankley 29 Sep 08 - 04:00 PM
romany man 30 Sep 08 - 07:30 AM
GUEST,bankley 30 Sep 08 - 08:59 AM
Jess A 30 Sep 08 - 09:35 AM
tradpiper 30 Sep 08 - 10:02 AM
romany man 30 Sep 08 - 10:39 AM
InOBU 18 Oct 08 - 10:17 PM
GUEST,MH 19 Oct 08 - 04:00 AM
InOBU 19 Oct 08 - 09:06 AM
bankley 19 Oct 08 - 12:45 PM
Tradsinger 19 Oct 08 - 12:50 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Oct 08 - 03:50 PM
InOBU 19 Oct 08 - 10:00 PM
GUEST,bankley 20 Oct 08 - 07:36 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Oct 08 - 02:59 PM
InOBU 21 Oct 08 - 08:53 AM
InOBU 21 Oct 08 - 08:56 AM
InOBU 21 Oct 08 - 08:58 AM
Tradsinger 22 Oct 08 - 03:42 AM
bankley 22 Oct 08 - 09:19 AM
InOBU 22 Oct 08 - 10:28 AM
InOBU 22 Oct 08 - 10:35 AM
InOBU 22 Oct 08 - 11:18 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Oct 08 - 02:46 PM
semi-submersible 19 Dec 08 - 07:48 AM
romany man 19 Dec 08 - 09:35 AM
mikesamwild 06 Aug 10 - 07:44 AM
mikesamwild 06 Aug 10 - 08:04 AM
GUEST,gergan 22 Apr 13 - 05:34 PM
Tradsinger 23 Apr 13 - 03:22 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Apr 13 - 06:42 AM
GUEST,Lavengro 23 Apr 13 - 07:37 AM
Ross Campbell 14 Feb 18 - 08:30 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin 15 Feb 18 - 07:48 AM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 01:33 PM

I made up a new thread so people can tell us more about these songs. It seems like several people grew up singing them. I would love to know some words to some, as well as more about the tradition, and what people are doing these days. mg


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 02:19 PM

Songs from Romany singers or songs in the Romany language?

The number of songs collected in the Romany language seems quite limited, most of the English Traveller repertoire seems to be in English

The Musical Traditions CD Here's Luck to a Man has a little material in Romany.

You could also get a copy of Mike Yate's book Travellers Joy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 02:23 PM

I forgot to add that most Romany singers these days prefer Country and Western or show songs. Always in the Traveller style of course, hearing a group of Travellers singing Julie Andrews numbers in the style of Phoebe Smith can sound pretty weird.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: romany man
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 02:44 PM

Theres already a thread covering this. tradpiper is always on, I sing a bit , song and poems learned from relatives in camp etc, a lot are in the romany tongue, Most of the old singers are now gone and the young uns dont seem interested, country and western has a foothold yes but if i do start singing a song a few will look up, then maybe and only maybe join in a verse then pass by,


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 03:14 PM

It's worth looking out for 'Now Shoon the Romano Gillie - Traditional Verse in the High and Low Speech of the Gypsies of Britain' by Tim Coughlan (Univ. of Wales Press 2001), - full of Traveller songs and information, and very readable.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: bankley
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 04:48 PM

a link that might be of interest... is a site created by my 'prahla'/brother, Canadian Roma author, teacher, musician, and human rights advocate Ronald Lee.

'E Zhivindi Yag'   (The Living Fire)

and also 'Romano Kopache'.... featuring articles on the Roma by the Roma...

baxt hai sustimos....


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: Tradsinger
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 04:58 PM

I'm sure you know 'Romany Rai' and 'Mandi went to puv the grai'. What about 'Can you rokka Romany?' If not, I'll post the words that I have here.

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: romany man
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 04:24 AM

cushti manti, mandi gellin to rochester


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Subject: Lyr Add: MOVING ON SONG (Peggy Seeger)
From: tradpiper
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 06:49 AM

It appears there is some confusion regarding travellers. there are a number of unrelated groups, though of course there is intermarriage and friendships.. There are Irish travellers. Scottish travellers, 'new age' travellers, and Romany travellers plus tramps and the dispossessed.
Itinerant workers, 'Spailpin fanaucht ', have been and still are an essential and necessary part of society. A group of workers who are able to move to where the work is, and then move on again. Society may refuse to recognise these groups but without us a traditional economy can not work.We act as a 'buffer' so to speak. crops need harvesting. Where do these workers come from if there is full employment in an area? Travellers.
The highland clearances forced many on to the road. Times of famine and oppression in Ireland did the same.
Travelling musicians are a part of our heritage. Fiddle masters walking around the country on their annual routes. Blind Harpers. The list goes on.

Modern life has to an extent rendered the old ways redundant, It would seem that society now wants us to 'settle down' but not in 'their' neighbourhood. We, as travellers, are caught between a rock and a hard place. Travelling the old ways is fraught with danger, cars travel too fast. there are too many of them.The songs we sing often reflect these aspects of our lives. When you have been moved on more times than you can count, Ewan Maccoll's songs, for example,speak to us, for us and through us of our hardships.


MOVING ON SONG
(Peggy Seeger)

Born in the middle of an afternoon
In a horse-drawn wagon on the old A5
The big twelve wheeler shook my bed
You can't stay here the policeman said
You better get born in someplace else

CHORUS; move along, get along, move along, get along,
Go, move, shift

Born in tatie lifting time
In an old bow tent be a tatie field
The farmer said, The work's all done
It's time that you were moving on

CHORUS; move along, get along, move along, get along,
Go, move, shift

Born in a wagon on a building site
Where the ground was rutted be the trailer's wheels
The local people said to me,
You lower the price of property

CHORUS; move along, get along, move along, get along,
Go, move, shift

Born at the back of a blackthorn hedge
When the white hoarfrost lay all around
No 3 wise men came bearing gifts
Instead the order came to shift

CHORUS; move along, get along, move along, get along,
Go, move, shift

The winter sky was hung with stars
And one shone brighter than the rest
The wise men came so stern and strict
And brought the order to evict

CHORUS; move along, get along, move along, get along,
Go, move, shift

Wagon, tent, or trailer born
Last week, last year, or in far off days
Born here or a thousand miles away
There's always men nearby who'll say
you'd better get born in some place else.

move along get along move along get along, go move shift.


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Subject: Lyr Add: GUM SHELLAC and BATTLE OF BROWNHILLS
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 07:26 AM

These are two songs we recorded from Traveller Pop's Johnny Connors who was Vice Chairman of the National Gypsy Council in the late sixties; Johnny composed both of them.

They have been roughly annotated for a proposed selection of Travellers' songs we hope to publish from our collection sometime in the future. I have also included the titles of 20 songs by or specifically about Travellers which we hope will form one of the chapters.

Jim Carroll

GUM SHELLAC (Roud 2508) "Pop's" Johnny Connors; Tape 1 (2nd take). 2m 35.

We are the travelling people like the Picts or Beaker Folk,
The men in Whitehall thinks we're parasites but tinker is the word.
With our gum shellac alay ra lo, move us on you boyoes.

All the jobs in the world we have done,
From making Pharaoh's coffins to building Birmingham.
With our gum shellac ala lay sha la, wallop it out you heroes.

We have mended pots and kettles and buckets for Lord Cornwall,
But before we'd leave his house me lads, we would mind his woman and all.
With our gum shellac alay ra la, wallop it out me hero.

Well I have a little woman and a mother she is to be,
She gets her basket on her arm, and mooches the hills for me.
With our gum shellac alay ra la, wallop it out me hero.

[Dowdled verse.]

We fought the Romans, the Spanish and the Danes,
We fought against the dirty Black and Tans and knocked Cromwell to his knees.
With our gum shellac alay ra la, wallop it out me heroes.

Well, we're married these twenty years, nineteen children we have got.
Ah sure, one is hardly walking when there's another one in the cot.
Over our gum shellac alay ra lo, get out of that you boyoes.

We have made cannon guns in Hungary, bronze cannons in the years B.C.
We fought and died for Ireland to make sure that she was free.
With a gum shellac ala lay sha la, wallop it out me heroes.

We can sing a song or dance a reel no matter where we roam,
We have learned the Emperor Nero how to play the pipes way back in the days of Rome.
With our gum shellac ala lay sha la, whack it if you can me boyoes.

[Dowdled verse.]

"Pop's" Johnny Connors, the singer of this song, is also the composer. He was an activist in the movement for better conditions for Travellers in the 1960s and was a participant in the Brownhills eviction, about which he made the song, "THE BATTLE OF BROWNHILLS", which tells of an unofficial eviction in the Birmingham area which led to the death of two Traveller children. An account of part of his experiences on the road is to be found in Jeremy Sandford's book "Gypsies" under the heading, "Seven Weeks of Childhood". This was written while Johnny was serving a prison sentence in Winson Green Prison in the English Midlands. He said that further chapters of an intended biography were confiscated by the prison authorities and never returned to him on his release.

Gum shellac is a paste formed by chewing bread, a technique used by unscrupulous tinsmiths to supposedly repair leaks in pots and pans. When polished, it gives the appearance of a proper repair but, if the vessel is filled with water, the paste quickly disintegrates, giving the perpetrator of the trick just enough time to escape with his payment.

Ref.
Gypsies. Jeremy Sandford. Secker and Warburg 1973.

BATTLE OF BROWNHILLS (Roud 16716)
Rec. from "Pop's" Johnny Connors

Come all me loyal Travellers and listen to my song,
It's about th'oul brave Travellers they bravely made their stand
When the police and those Midland security scamps come to break our trailers down.

Sure it was in old Brownhills me boys, our brave Travellers made their stand,
Against those so-called gentlemen, they were more like Hitler's mob,
They attacked our camp one October Sunday morning all at the dawn of day,
What a terrible shock they got me lads, when they heard what I had to say.

Now Gratton Puxon** was there too, that great man from London Town,
They saw the anger all in his eyes, he did answer them one and all.
The students too, may God bless them, they did answer to my call,
And said, "Johnny, we will camp with you, and with yous we will fall."

Now the Connors's and th'ould Cash's, Murphys, Doran's, and Doherty' and Hanrahan's were there too,
And not forgetting Roy Parkinson**, and the bold brothers O'Donald.

In Walsall town one evening, the balance of the day
When squad-car loads of those licensed thugs came to tow our trailers away,
Three little sisters asleep in bed, asleep in bed they lay,
May our lord have mercy on their innocent souls; they died in that 'viction that day.

At the graveyard in Bilston we laid them in their grave,
Our hearts were filled with sorrow, our brave heads bowed with shame,
It is the wicked and cruel law of Walsall Town that we have to blame.

So we've heard of glorious St. Patrick, and all he did for our Irish race,
But I only wonder if he forgot to banish all the snakes.
We will pray to Chris or Columbus (Christopher Columbus?) sure he found Americay,
And please God all in their own good time:
(Spoken) Human minded people will find the travelling people a place to stay and education for their children".

The West Midlands of England have a reputation among Travellers as being inhospitable; a number of them have told us it is not a good place to travel. In 1964, during the making of the ground-breaking radio programme, "The Travelling People", it was a Birmingham Justice-of-the-Peace who suggested to producer Charles Parker that Travellers who refused to co-operate with local authorities should be "exterminated". This chilling, if not original statement was used to end the programme and can still be heard on the CD version.
Attitudes to Travellers illegally halting and the vexed question of site provision often verge on the ridiculous. In 1969 a local councillor at Brownhills, Birmingham announced that over one thousand loads of spoil (rubble) were to be brought into a site to prevent caravans being parked there. The £600 cost for this action was taken from the £1,000 contingency fund set aside to provide a permanent site.

In 1976 we visited a site in Birmingham on the eve of a mass exodus. The following day the occupants would all voluntarily leave but would be allowed to return several days later. This would enable the local council to claim that there was no permanent travelling population in the area, thus absolving them from meeting their legal obligation of providing basic facilities, toilets, running water or rubbish collection. The Travellers participated in this farce in order to be left in peace.

According to the singer, "Pop's" Johnny Connors, who made the song, the events described took place in November 1967 at Brownhills, Birmingham, when, during an eviction by police, council officials and private security employees, a trailer was being towed from the site, the owners having been arrested previously and held in custody. A solid fuel heater overturned and three young sisters asleep in the trailer were burned to death in the ensuing fire. The song was first sung at a ceremony to commemorate the Gypsy war dead in December 1967.

**Gratton Puxon Campaigner for Travellers rights; joint secretary of World Romani
Congress and co-author of The Destiny of Europe's Gypsies (Sussex Univ. Press 1972)

**Roy Parkinson Chairman of Midlands National Council for Civil Liberties.

Reference
The Travelling People (audio c.d.) Ewan MacColl, Peggy Seeger & Charles Parker.

Gypsy Politics and Social Change; Thomas Acton,

Songs By or About Travellers

Appleby Fair. (Roud 16699)
Battle of Brownhills (Roud 16716)
Big Dan Doran (Roud 16697)
Going To Clonakilty the Other Day. (Roud 16694)
Gum Shellack (Roud 2508)
I Had a Tidy Bit of a Fortune
The Jolly Tinker. (A) (Roud 863)
Jolly Tinker (B) Balls of Shangle Shee (Roud 863)
Jolly Tinker (C) Donnelly. (Roud 863)
Little Beggarman (Roud 900)
Marie from Gippursland
Paddy McInerney (Roud 3377)
Poor Old Man (A) (Roud 2509)
Poor Old Man (B) (Roud 2509)
Rambling Candyman (Roud 2163)
Stash All the Nackers
Terry Reilly's Ass and Car
Tom the **Gommer. (Roud 16713)
What Will We Do When We'll Have No Money. (Roud 16879)

Songs By or About Travellers

Appleby Fair. (Roud 16699)
Battle of Brownhills (Roud 16716)
Big Dan Doran (Roud 16697)
Going To Clonakilty the Other Day. (Roud 16694)
Gum Shellack (Roud 2508)
I Had a Tidy Bit of a Fortune
The Jolly Tinker. (A) (Roud 863)
Jolly Tinker (B) Balls of Shangle Shee (Roud 863)
Jolly Tinker (C) Donnelly. (Roud 863)
Little Beggarman (Roud 900)
Marie from Gippursland
Paddy McInerney (Roud 3377)
Poor Old Man (A) (Roud 2509)
Poor Old Man (B) (Roud 2509)
Rambling Candyman (Roud 2163)
Stash All the Nackers
Terry Reilly's Ass and Car
Tom the **Gommer. (Roud 16713)
What Will We Do When We'll Have No Money. (Roud 16879)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: Willa
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 08:58 AM

Folksongs of Britain and Ireland(Ed Peter Kennedy)has a section on Songs of the Travelling People, including music, lyrics, glossary and notes.

It includes
Can You Rocker Romany (verses)
The Atching Tan Song
Casro, Manishi-o
The Choring Song
I Binged Avree
Mandi Went to Poove the Grys
Oko Vela O Chavo


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: mg
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 01:14 PM

Were some of the blind harpers travelelrs? Was Cornelius Lyons one of the blind harpers? I ask because that was the name of my great grandfather and I am looking for a possible connection.

How about any from France? I know a lot of people came over during the French Revolution. mg


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 08:03 PM

the gentleman, I refered to above, Ronald Lee (Yanko) was at the Brownhills Battle... wrote a song about it also, which I don't have with me... later he carried the Rota flag to the UN while Yul Bryner presented a petition to acquire NGO status for the Roma... a highly respected elder worldwide.... quite a 'ham' once he picks up the guitar or bazouki... born in a tent ...he's a wealth of stories to be sure....


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 05:30 PM

Scottish travellers do not think of themselves as Romany. A couple of Scots travellers songs in what they name 'cant' are
Hey barra gadgee, will ye jazz avree - recorded from non-traveller Jmmy MacBeath
and
Last night ah wis in the granzie, recorded from Davey Stewart.
Ewan McVicar


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 08:34 AM

There'a a bit here(BBC Kent website) about the Hartlake Bridge disater and the song the local Romanys made and sang about it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/voices/hartlake/song.shtml


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Subject: Lyr Add: WILL THERE BE ANY TRAVELLERS IN HEAVEN
From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 12:54 PM

Last night as I lay by the roadside
I saw an old traveller roll by
And I wondered what happens to Gypsies
Whenever their time comes to die.

CHO Will there be any travellers in Heaven?
Any pubs where we might get some beer?
Or will it just be the same landlords
Saying 'Sorry, no Gypsies served here'

Will the angel's receive us in glory
And treat us like good, honest men?
Or will they call us poachers and scroungers
And set us to ramble again.

And the Master up there in the heavens -
Will he find us a place to call home -
A place we can work for a living?
Or must we continue to roam.

Will there be any travellers in heaven?
Will there be any place we can stay?
Or will there be policemen and councils
To tell us to be on our way?

Will the giogio be friends with the Gypsy?
Will there be lots of money to spare?
And will there be respect for my children
In the place that we go to up there?

Must the traveller for ever keep moving-
For ever keep moving around?
I am growing so weary of rambling
I long to be under the ground.

Written by the Gypsy Darby Smith


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: romany man
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 02:39 PM

Love this link, shows people dont always know what romanys, travellers etc have had to and still do put up with, so many people think its all romantic and jolly, sadly the opposite is true, there have been pitched battles and there probably will be more to come, many of us have been forced to settle, not thro choice, as my dadus says we fought a fuckin war to stop this shit, but seems as a whole wether romany or what type of travelling person, society wants us gone, and the government stands behind them, but hey the fight goes on i will never be ashamed of what i am or where i came from. and no bastard will make me.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 03:31 PM

Maybe this has nothing to do with the original request, but romany_man has opened a can of worms for me. I have questions about travellers. I just don't understand why they are treated so.

Coming from a small town in Viriginia I did not have any experience or knowledge of what generations 30 or more years before my time called Gypsies. For my grandmother's generation there were horrible stories spread of children being taken by the Gypsies, of which my Mom says she never heard an actual case and just believed it was a load of nonsense to make children behave and stay near home.

When I moved to UK, I was very surprised to learn what a stigma is attached to people who for generations have lived the travelling life what ever their ethnic origin or nomenclature (self-applied or thrust upon them). And even more surprised that those who have basically settled, bought homes etc. feel insecure about neighbors finding out. And that children are afraid that it will be discovered by others at school. The marginalisation and treatment I have read and been told about chills me and smacks of the mindset pre and during civil rights demonstrations of the 60s and forward in the US.

But then I am still shocked by all violence torward any people for whatever reason, wherever it happens in the world. And surprised how poisoned this lovely land is with intolerance. I guess I am a terminal innocent.

I cannot claim to know much about Travellers, don't think I have ever met one. If I have, I did not know it and that I hope says something good. That to me it does not matter what group a person may belong to. It does matter that the individual is true to self and kind to others.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: bankley
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 04:00 PM

some books I enjoyed...

"Goddamn Gypsy" ...Ronald Lee
"Bury me Standing" Isabelle Fonseca

a good thread to be sure, and you want to stear clear of Italy for the time being... The Zingari are having a rough time of it there, more so than usual... with the resurgence of the Facista...

also a nice docu-movie just out.."Gypsy Caravan"... about several music groups from India, Romania, Albania and Spain doing a North American tour two years ago... a lot of footage shot in their respective countries and villages as well... really fine work.. common thread throughout... Nais Tuke...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: romany man
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 07:30 AM

Sadly i think the facista have been here in england for a very long time, only last week i went with a mate to see someone about a horse and overnight they were towed of the site that they had been given permission to stay on, the court order came via the council not obviously the land owner, a major battle will ensue as they had permission to be there, watch this space am giving odds we loose


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Subject: Lyr Add: O DROM SI BARO
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:59 AM

good luck with that one, Romany Man.... the authorities don't like people who they can't control... the countries vary but, sadly, the attitude is the same.... 'save us from the nomads'

here's a song I wrote a few years back, the words were published in a small book of poetry called 'Kanadake Romani Mirikle' (Canadian Romany Pearls) It was an honour to be included with Yanko, Lolo, Amdi, Hedina, Nina, Julia Lovell and others....

O DROM SI BARO

Searching for familiar faces in the strangeness of bitter places
The hard-hearted traffic wears the Roma really down
He was dealt a pair of aces and a joker wearing braces
The crippled hands of time are reaching for his crown,
Talking with unseen forces on imaginary horses
Straining at a caravan that wears a broken wheel
His songs are tracing courses back to long forgotten sources
Carried on a moody breeze across the smoking fields

The road is long, it goes far
We don't know where we're going, but we do know where we are
We have a destination beyond the dusty wind
We'll know when we get there, it'll remind us of where we've been

On the sidewalk of a cemetery where all the residents are sedentary
He stoops low for a moment to pick up a half-smoked butt
It'll help to feed an addiction, take some edge off the friction
Of a broken wheel turning, churning ashes in the ruts

La route est longue, elle va loin
On sait pas ou est qu'on va d'ici sur notre chemin
La reponse de dematin reste a l'autre bord d'une mirage
Notre destination, c'est dans le voyage

O drom si baro, hai zhal dur
Si amen tan tay zhas
Hai amay zhanas, kana aresas
Serel omen o tan katar tradillium

We'll know when we get there...it'll remind us of the place we left


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Subject: Lyr Add: POOR OLD HORSE
From: Jess A
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 09:35 AM

The only traveller song I know is a version of 'Poor Old Horse' which was collected from a traveller singer at Appleby Horse Fair, in Appleby-in-Westmorland, Cumbria by Jim Eldon, I believe. Apologies if 'chevy' and 'grai' not spelt correctly - I believe they both mean 'horse' (?)

POOR OLD HORSE

Once he was a young horse, and a young horse in his prime,
And his master used to ride him, and he thought him very fine,
But he's my own, bonny sweet, who rode over many's the mile,
Over hedges, ditches, brooks and bridges,
Tall gates and many's the stile,
Poor old horse,
Old horse, old chevy, old grai.

He's stolen all my hay, and he's stolen all my corn,
And he's pulled up all the short grass,
and the long grass by the wall,
Poor old horse,
Old horse, old chevy, old grai.

His legs and his irons are all eaten away,
And his back and his body are all beaten away,
Poor old horse,
Old horse, old chevy, old grai.

Whip him, beat him, drive him, and the huntsman cut him dead,
Poor old horse,
Old horse, old chevy, old grai.

Once he was a young horse, and a young horse in his prime,
And his master used to ride him, and he thought him very fine,
But he's my own, bonny sweet, who rode over many's the mile,
Over hedges, ditches, brooks and bridges,
Tall gates and many's the stile,
Poor old horse,
Old horse, old chevy, old grai.
Old horse, old chevy, old grai.


It's got a beautiful haunting tune. Haven't got the technology to do a midi or anything of it though I'm afraid. I like the fact that it's not entirely regular - 1st verse (repeated as last verse) has an extra bit of tune as it's 2 lines longer, and 3rd verse is only half the length of the others. But it works!

I sing with a band, Crucible, and we learnt it in pub sings in Sheffield from Simon Heywood (storyteller, singer & songwriter) and subsequently recorded it on our second album, Crux, in 2005.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: tradpiper
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 10:02 AM

Good luck Romany man. That reflects my earlier point . Society wants us to 'settle down, but not in 'their' back yard. Even with permission from the land owner, even own yer own land, and they'll trouble you for running an 'illegal camping site!'
A rock and a hard place to be sure. It seems the only safe option is to become 'house drawn'. Some damp old cottage more like a feckin cave. Still times have been harder.

Its just racism. Plain and simple.The 'other.' Externalise the demons. Blame a scapegoat.etc.
I'm not saying that all travellers are nice folk, just as in any society. But to tar an entire community and way of life as a result of the actions of a few? That's not right.

Sure I've led an interesting life and I wouldn't swap it for anyone else's. Sure I've had trouble and hardship, but it just made me stronger.
To a great extent the old ways are gone. We simply have to find alternatives that allow us to thrive and live our own lives.

The verges are going, the rocks are nearly everywhere, the roads are dominated by cars travelling at crazy speeds. Who'd want to be on the road these days?!Maybe a patch of mountain and a bit of bite for the nags is yer best bet?

But there will always come a time when the road calls.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: romany man
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 10:39 AM

mandis always ready for the road, , yeh yous right, even as ya know, the romanys and the irish travellers dont always see eye to eye, but theres good an bad everywhere, you know the gorgas dont know one from another an we is all to be pushed away no matter what, still better bad luck than no luck cuz. perhaps the days will come back, today theys complainin on the box that no ones pickin the fruit, coz the imports wont even pick em, farmers one day will see some of us will work for a pitch and a wage, but hey go back , they would rather see it rot,
kushti bok


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:17 PM

Shukar Romany Man... Here in the USA, Romanyi manushen, thai Travellers are thrown into the same boat by the jzandaress, so it makes sense to row together, jarres o penav? Feel free to PM me at Inobu@aol.com

Aldeen Devla, prala

Baxt hai sastimos
Lorcan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: GUEST,MH
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 04:00 AM

Suffolk Miracle above gives the lyrics of Derby Smith's "Will there be any be travellers in Heaven?", but I don't know if anyone has pointed out that Derby set his words to the tune of Jimmie Rodgers' "Hobo's Meditation"? ( ie "Will there be any freight trains in heaven/ any boxcars where we can hide..."). Derby was a great admirer of Jimmie Rodgers.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE NEW SAINT
From: InOBU
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 09:06 AM

THE NEW SAINT

Oh tell me Father Michael, What's that I heard you say
That the church for all its past neglect, named a Gypsy saint today.
Tell me all the details, I'd really like to know
For its been more than a little time, since to our church I'd go.

Tell me what his deeds were, and how he came to die.
Was he murdered by the Gadje, while in exile forced to fly
Or hanged by James of Scotland, when Faa was sent away
Or killed by a Polish peasant mob on some lonely cold byway

Did he die with the resistance, in that cold Vichy midnight
While bringing food and weapons to carry on the fight
Or aiding Jews and exiles to escape the Nazi scourge
Or killed by a Nazi death squad bent on their racist purge

Did he die in Auschwitz death camp, when Ziguenier Nacht took place
On that day that tens of thousand Rom, were murdered for their race
Or in in the Czech Republic, thrown from a bridge to die,
Oh tell me Father Michael, was that the reason why?

I can't believe what you're telling me, about the way he died
Defending a Fascist priest, defending Franco's side.
If that's the side that God was on, forgive me if I say
It will be a cold day in Hell before with you I'll pray.


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Subject: Lyr Add: SHOUTS AND BLOWS (Mario Ines-Torres)
From: bankley
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 12:45 PM

InOBU, that's great.... who wrote it ?

a friend of mine , born in Barcelona, was locked up and tortured by the Franco fascists...he was finally forced into exile... he is a powerful Flamenco puro singer and wrote this while he was in a Spanish prison... of course these are words on a screen... but when he sings them.... you just know......

Shouts and Blows.... Mario Ines-Torres ( Lolo )

For being born poor, to misery, we are sentenced without justice
If money has no value compared to life,
Why are we paying more than those who steal life ?
With shouts and blows they put fear under our skin
And we awake with terror as soon as we hear a noise
If there weren't motives, crime wouldn't exist
And the punishers are responsible for these many motives
I'm asking the dead to give me justice
Because the living don't understand me
Oh Mother, the days are so long
But the nights are even longer in the solitary confinement cell
Rehabilitation is a lie and whoever passes through these doors
Will be marked for life...

Voces Y Golpes....

Por nacia probes...a la miseria.. nos sentencian sin juicio.
Si el dinero no vale na'al la o una vida
Pa que pago yo mas condemna que quien roba 'na vida.
Voces y golpes a uno bajo la piel le tienen el miedo meti o
Y el terror lo despierta ca 'vez qu oye un ruido
Si no hubiera motivo, el crimen no 'xistiria
Tantos motivos le dans quienes luego castigan
Y voy pidiendo a los muertos que me den justica
Ya que los vivos comprenderme no podian
Ay..Mare, por largos que sean los dios,
mas largas son las noches en las celdas de castigo
La reabilitacion es una mentida y quienes pasan estas puertas
Salen marca os pa 'to a vidas


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: Tradsinger
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 12:50 PM

Can anyone supply the words and background to the song 'Appleby Fair"?

Tradsinger


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Subject: Lyr Add: APPLEBY FAIR ('Rich' Johnny Connors)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:50 PM

This is the version recorded from Waterford Traveller 'Rich' Johnny Connors in 1975.
The accompanying note was included on the CD 'From Puck To Appleby.
As far as we could find out, the song is anonymous and the characters named vary from version to version.
Jim Carroll

Appleby Fair

'Tis at Appleby Top you will find a horse fair,
Which brings all these Travellers there year after year.
You'll see all the dealers with diddys* all there,
Sat cooking their scran* around smoky wood fires.

They'll have piebalds and skewballs, and flea bitten greys,
Like the most of their owners they've seen better days,
With a greasy-heel* here, and a bog-spavine* there,
We'll take knacker-prices* for those at the fair.

Sure you all know Bob Ferris, and young Billy Brough,
Sure they've all had it off and they sold some good stuff,
Between wibbling and wobbling, and speaking of grai*,
Sure we all will be thinking of Appleby Fair.

Sure you all know Dan Mannion, he's a man who is game,
He kept trotting horses which have brought him great fame,
In company with Chick and he smokes a cigar,
And he speaks of his daughter who drives a posh car.

The small town of Appleby in Cumbria has held an annual fair every June since permission was first granted in 1684 by James II for 'a fair or market for the purchase and sale of all manner of goods, cattle, mares and geldings'. Nowadays it is solely for horses. It is officially a one-day affair, although it usually lasts a week and is claimed to be the largest gathering of Travellers in Britain. The fair is held on what was The Gallows Hill but is now known as Fair Hill. The layout of the town, built as it is on both sides of the River Eden, makes Appleby a convenient site for a horse-fair as can be seen by this picturesque description by a young gypsy girl:
"When the little chavvies* get up, they take the grais down the pani* and they wash the grais down, and then they ride the grais up and down the drom*."
While this song is usually identified with English Travellers, it seems to be fairly popular among the Irish. We recorded it from three singers and we knew of several others who also sang it.

* Diddys (Romany; orig low slang) = Didikei, a gypsy of mixed marriage origins.
* Scran (low slang) = scraps of food.
* Greasy-heel, * Bog Spavine = ailments in horses.
* Knacker-prices (from dialect) = prices paid for horses intended for slaughter.
* Grais (Romany) = horses. * Chavvies (Romany) = boys.
* Pani (Romany) = water (river).
* Drom (Romany) = road]

Ref: The Gypsies, Angus Fraser, The Peoples of Europe series, Blackwell, 1992


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: InOBU
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 10:00 PM

Oh Bankley... whoops... forgot the first line of the song post above... I wrote it, Lorcan Otway to the tune of the Irish spanish civil war song, oh is it Bantry Girl's lament... oh who will plow the fields now, and who will plant the corn, and who will tend the sheep now, and keep them freshly shorn....

All the best
Lorcan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 07:36 AM

nais tuke, InOBU.... really fine.... R.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 02:59 PM

Lorcan,
I think you'll find that The Bantry Girl's Lament pre-dates the Spanish Civil War by at least two centuries.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 08:53 AM

Hi Jim... I thought that as well, and you are likely right. I forget who told me it was about Frank Ryan's comrads... it certainly sounds more Napolianic. I supose, perhaps it was sung by folks in the 15th international brigade.
I once sang Jamie Foyers to a pal of mine, who had fought in the Abraham Lincoln brigage. He laughed and said, let me sing you one we actually sang in Spain...
The worker's flag is growing pink,
it's no so red as ye may think.
That was from Jock, a Scotts sailor, who had lost his leg at some point. I have not seen him in a few years, and hope he is well, and happy.


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Subject: Lyr Add: MY SON KIKI (Bela Lakatos)
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 08:56 AM

Here is a wonderful song, (one of my favorites) from Bela Lakatos - "MY SON KIKI"

Muro ilo losharel, kana, Devla, dumadel
Le vastenca sikavel (hop hop).
Shukar san tu, muro shavo, tu san muro kutyaripo.
Chumidau tyo iloro.

(Brega pita) ha-ha ...

Kana pe leste dikhaw, gilyi leske me penaw
Oi si shavo, te merau (hop hop hop).
Vorbil mange, khelel manghe, si te merau pala leste.
Ai, Devlale, jutile.

(Giabo,hop hop)…

Kade, Kiki, kade malav, sar me tuke sikavaw.
Sar me tuke sikavaw (Ji ha..ha he)
Dikh chak, tata, sar khelaw, le changasa malavaw
Tuke voia me keraw.

Da..da..lala(tighidipodip lalalagalop)

(Sava lavo)Da da da..alalla

Kade, Kiki, kade malav, sar me tuke sikavaw.
Sar me tuke sikavaw (Ji ha..ha he)
Dikh chak, tata, sar khelaw, le changasa malavaw
Tuke voïa me keraw.

(Sava lavo) ho, ho, ho…


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Subject: Lyr Add: MORI SHEJ, SABINA / MY DAUGHTER SABINA
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 08:58 AM

And from the great band Kalyi Jag, "My daughter Sabina" from Joseph Balough

Mori Shej, Sabina (My Daughter Sabina)

Buter káj egy berseszki szán
Móri drágo piko séj
Vorbisz mánge káki-koki
Móri drágo piko séj

Áj mori séj, mori drago pikonyéj
Álálálá.....
Áj mori séj, mori drago pikonyéj
Álálálá.....

Kináu tuke szomnákáj
Móri drágo piko séj
Lá lumáko szomnákáj
Móri drágo piko séj

Áj mori séj, mori drago pikonyéj
Álálálá.....
Áj mori séj, mori drago pikonyéj
Álálálá.....

Áldin dévlá murá sá
Móri drágo pikonya
Móri drágo pikonya
Murá sukár szábiná

Áj mori séj, mori drago pikonyéj
Álálálá.....
Áj mori séj, mori drago pikonyéj
Álálálá.....


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: Tradsinger
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 03:42 AM

I'm repeating a previous posting for your info:

BBC Radio Gloucestershire's Sunday magazine programme, presented by Pete Wilson, will be doing a feature on the music, song, dance and speech of English gypsies, with special reference to Gloucestershire. In conjunction with Pete, I will be talking in particular about the Smith and Brazil families and playing sound clips of their music. The programme will be broadcast on Sunday 2nd November at 2 p.m. (UK time) and if you miss it, you can hear it on 'Listen Again' on the Radio Gloucestershire website http://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershire/local_radio/

Tradsinger

You'll hear Romany Rai, Mandi went to puv the grai and a bit about Romany speech. Enjoy.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: bankley
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 09:19 AM

thanks for the reminder.... Tradsinger...I look fwd to it and will pass along the info here in Canada

and thanks for those fine songs InOBU...have you recorded any ?

I just want to include "Opre Roma" written by Holocaust survivor, Zarko Jovanovi c, in 1969 and adopted as the official anthem of the International Romani Union at the First World Romani Congress in London in 1971... Zarko wrote this in a van full of Romany activists including Gratton Puxon, Thomas Acton, Vanko Rouda, Juan de Dios Heredia on their way back to London from a bloody protest in the north...

Djelem, djelem, lungone dromensa
Maladilem baxtale Romensa
Djelem, djelem, lungone dromensa
Maladilem baxtale dromensa
Ay Romale, Ay Chavale
Ay Romale, Ay Chavale

Ay Romale, katar tumen aven
Le terensa baxtale dromensa
Vi-man sas u bari familiya
Tal mudardya la e Kali Legiya
Aven mansa so lumiake Roma
Kai putaile le Romane droma
Ake vryama - ushti Rom akana !
Ame xutasa mishto kai kerasa

Ay Romale, Ay Chavale
Ay Romale, Ay Chavale


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 10:28 AM

Bankley - Thanks for posting the above (Roma Opre - Romany people rise). It is usually called Gelem Gelem. There are a number of different verses. Here is the translation of the one posted above.

I went, I went on long roads
I met happy Roma
O Roma where do you come from,
With tents on happy roads?
O Roma, O fellow Roma

I once had a great family,
The Black Legions* murdered them
Come with me Roma from all the world
For the Romani roads have opened
Now is the time, rise up Roma now,
We will rise high if we act

O Roma, O fellow Roma



As to my songs, I did record the one above, it is on two of my CDs, and also, a song I wrote about a Romni, a mother who was thrown off a bridge in the Czech Republic and drowned. The thugs who murdered her got about six months in jail.

Devlessa

Lorcan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 10:35 AM

Whoops - I just noticed an error in the translation above, the chorus, Aye Romale, Aye Shavale, is actually Oh men, oh boys... - refering only to Romany men and boys, as opposed to Aye Gyzhen, aye rakle, which would have been non-Romany men and boys - or Aye Manusen, fellows, which could be either Roma or Gyzhen.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 11:18 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpRDISBhjF4 Here is a real treat... it is a UTUBE of Loyko performing the above version of Gelem Gelem. I realized I saw them at the "Gypsy Caravan Tour" councert in New York, and in Vermont, oh, back about 12 years ago... really brought back memories. The video quality is not great, but it presents the song well enough.
All the best
lor


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 02:46 PM

This from Jeremy Sandford's CD and booklet 'Songs of the Roadside
Jim Carroll

Opré Roma

Gelem, gelem, lungone dromensa.
Maladilem bahtale Romesa.

A Romale, A Cavale.

A Romale katar tumen aven,
E tsarensa bahtale dromensa?

A Romale, A Cavale.

Vi man sas bari familija,
Mudardas la e kali legija.

A Romale, A Cavale.

Aven mansa sa lumniake Roma,
Kai putaile e romane droma.

A Romale, A Cavale.

Ake vriama, usti Rom akana,
Men hutasa misto kai kerasa!
A Romale, A Cavale.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: semi-submersible
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 07:48 AM

More translations to English, please? (Understanding that all translation is approximate.)

If the settled majority population someday develops wit enough to listen and respect the migrants among us, then what kinds of changes would be needed to make things work well in such a diverse society? Would the existing school system be good enough, if prejudice were no longer tolerated? Do existing housing types and camping facilities meet the needs of all kinds of travellers?

We'll always find it more difficult to contain irresponsible behaviour in a person who keeps changing neighbours. In a free country we couldn't register and track everybody: that would violate human rights, set dangerous precedents, and cause distrust. But what is the best way to keep the odd bad apples from giving all migrants a bad reputation?

Have you seen an effective way for a community to self-regulate to weed out unacceptable behaviour? Would many Roma and other travellers support self-policing communities as a way of distinguishing responsible migrants from tramps or tourists? I'm thinking of something like Better Business Bureau or Native Band status, which a member could use voluntarily to show legitimacy and one's good record to people who don't know one yet.

To reduce lazy scapegoating, police may need better communication tools (similar to those used for serious crimes) to link serial misdemeanors performed in different jurisdictions. Of course, until prejudice is curbed many authorities will continue to be part of the problem.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: romany man
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 09:35 AM

reference previous posting trad piper, yup you guessed it , we lost of course, and we gotta pay costs, same day we sold the land, guess what, barrats are now building 40 flats on it. mmmmmmmmmmm no discrimination ?????????????????????????????????
up in erith, the traditional lands granted by charter to the romanies is being chopped away by bexley council to tilfin land for them to buid more factory units that will stay empty for years just like the others they own.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: mikesamwild
Date: 06 Aug 10 - 07:44 AM

What does 'Mandi went to puv the grai' mean ? I know grai means horse
what was Mandi up to?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: mikesamwild
Date: 06 Aug 10 - 08:04 AM

Just found it on a Wiggy Smith song album, sorry.
'I went to put the horse to the grass'


By the way in the version of Old Horse that Jim Eldon collected and Crucible sing so well ( credit to Simon Heywood)I've heard old cherry old grey in the chorus as well as old chavi old grai.

I wonder whether old chavi could mean old lad or old boy.

Chav seems to have become a term of abuse !

Cheb in Arabic means youth I think. Round here in Sheffield a chabby or chebby commonly means a baby amongst local folk , not necessarily gypsies.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: GUEST,gergan
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 05:34 PM

And there's "Oko Vela O Chavo" in Welsh Romani.
And i seem to remember another about the importance of the blacksmith.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: Tradsinger
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 03:22 AM

Mandi went to puv the grai means literally "I went to put the horse in the field". This little ditty refers to a gypsy putting his horse in a farmer's field (illegally) to graze. The farmer comes along and complains, whereupon the gypsy hits him. There are lots of versions. If you want gypsy songs, you should see this book by Alice Gillington with songs of the New Forest gypsies, including some songs in Romany - link. For the complete words of Appleby Fair, written by Harold Taylor in 1954, click here.

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 06:42 AM

"a gypsy putting his horse in a farmer's field (illegally) to graze."
A practice known as 'sarking' among Irish Travellers - reputedly the greatest cause of friction between them and the farmers in past times.
We recorded some great accounts of it from them, including a wonderful 'John Henry' type story of a Traveller who used to carry his pony under his arm to lift it over the fence into the field.
Thanks a million for the words and information to Appleby Fair -recorded it several times, but never in full - didn't realise it was so long.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: GUEST,Lavengro
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 07:37 AM

Hi Mike,

Chavvi means baby. And "poov the gry" means graze the horse. Poov is grass gry is horse.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 08:30 PM

Will there be any Gypsies in heaven sung by Derby Smith (YouTube)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Romany songs
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 07:48 AM

Pocket-sized book of Hungarian Gypsy songs, with music notation:

https://www.libri.hu/konyv/Bazsarozsa


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