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BS: The Debates
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Joe Offer Date: 29 Sep 08 - 10:01 PM As I've said time and time again, if you think a post is objectionable, don't advertise it by making a big stink about it in a thread. Send me a personal message or e-mail with specific information (name of thread, name of poster, date and time of message, and what's wrong with it), and I'll take care of it. If you can see that I'm not around, contact one of the volunteers - most of you "regulars" know at least some of them. Somebody finally contacted me and gave me specific information, and I deleted the gratuitous reference to a black man as "boy." But if you scream and shout and jump up and down in response to a troll, you're doing just what the troll wants you to do. Justin is probably gleefully masturbating right now, because he was able to manipulate so many of you. This thread is closed. If you want to start a members-only discusion of last week's Obama-McCain debate, go ahead. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Bobert Date: 29 Sep 08 - 07:52 PM Now wait just a danged minute here, Joe.... Don't lump me in with the ilks of Justin... This isn't a squabble or difference of opinion that is going on here... It is over-the-top racism on Justin's part and if ya'll gonna let him spout off like the Grand Wizzard of the KKK then, hey, I for one am gonna call him on it... I haven't been disrespectfull toward Justin but I have called his posts for what they are and that is racist... No squabble, just fact... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Bill D Date: 29 Sep 08 - 06:55 PM Ok..I got it..like Irish chairs which stay out all Winter...Paddy O'Furniture Justin said: "Yes I support the republican party, and proud to say I do. I think George Bush is an excellent president." Seems the polls are not finding too many who agree with you lately...lowest ratings for almost any president. McCain is a 'proud republican' too...to the point that he, like you, is saying almost anything in speeches & debates to appeal to emotional and special interest groups in hopes of short-circuiting reasoned analysis among swing voters and retaining as many "ditto-heads" as possible. If you can't find good arguments, make oblique references to irrelevant issues couched in derogatory terms. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,Justin Urquart Date: 29 Sep 08 - 05:56 PM Mick, please note my surname is spelt Urquart, not "Urquhart" thank you. Also why refer to someone as a "Troll" just because their view is different ? Yes I also found that O'bama thing very funny. I don't think he has ever visited Ireland. Well you never know, he could go after the Irish-American vote on that one ! Other Plastic Paddies have be known to do worse ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Big Mick Date: 29 Sep 08 - 05:47 PM I can't believe you are all falling for the same old crap from one of our age old trolls. "Urquhart" gives no facts, spouts slogans, calls you names, lays out lines about cotton and calling Obama boy, and you all suck in to it. There is no debate here, just trolling. As long as you feed him, he will keep it up. Ignore this person. Bill, you are correct that there is no apostrophe in Obama's name, but he is definitely of Irish blood through his grandmother. I love thge O'bama stuff. Can't wait until Thursday. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Joe Offer Date: 29 Sep 08 - 05:46 PM OK, just stop it - Richard, Bobert, Jack, Justin - all of you. This thread is supposed to be about the debates. Thank you. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Bobert Date: 29 Sep 08 - 05:44 PM The problem, Justin, is that you are not debating in a civil manner... You make racist statements... That is not civil... But worse, you are so racist that you don't even see yourself for what you are... That is sad... Maybe you just need to reinvent yourself and come back as a less racist GUEST... There are plenty of Repubs here who might agree with you on some things and even some Dems and Greens who will engage in a civil debate with you but debating overt racists is a waste of time... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,Justin Urquart Date: 29 Sep 08 - 05:31 PM Listen, some of you are living on another planet. No real point in attempting a civil debate. Let's allow the Witch of November to answer you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Bobert Date: 29 Sep 08 - 05:30 PM I'll second that motion... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 29 Sep 08 - 05:15 PM Because of the anti racism policy, I request that the Justin Urquart post be deleted. He is obviously race baiting.
-Joe Offer- joe@mudcat.org |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: irishenglish Date: 29 Sep 08 - 05:13 PM If I walk down a road and see a fat girl sitting in a park and I say, "oh there is a fat girl" Am I being discriminatory or simply making an observation? How about just saying, there's a girl. How's about I say regarding you-there's a dumbass. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 29 Sep 08 - 04:57 PM "I think George Bush is an excellent president." I rather doubt if George himself would actually agree with Justin there. I suspect he wakes up at night and wishes he'd never put his name forward for the job in the first place. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Lonesome EJ Date: 29 Sep 08 - 04:52 PM Yeah. Fuzz was at least funny part of the time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Riginslinger Date: 29 Sep 08 - 04:32 PM Remember Fuzzy Zoeller? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Lonesome EJ Date: 29 Sep 08 - 03:45 PM He's not a black guy, Justin. He's a guy with intelligence, which may be what is actually bothering you about him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Riginslinger Date: 29 Sep 08 - 02:50 PM Nothing about it squares with my personal sense of ethics. You've got two crooks running for office. Either one of them will do anything that comes to mind for the purpose of getting elected. We saw what happened to Jimmy Carter, out last honest president. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Lonesome EJ Date: 29 Sep 08 - 02:47 PM Frank, is your Hilary vote going to McCain? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 29 Sep 08 - 02:40 PM SO, just so I understand your position, and know how to act, are you, like Pontius Pilate, washing your hads of any commitment to say things as nearly to how they actually are as you can, and claiming full license to alter, distort, change facts, or otherwise slant data in your writings "because this is an election"? Is it your understanding,then, that this is how the democratic process is designed to work? Oh--and does it square with your personal sense of ethics? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Riginslinger Date: 29 Sep 08 - 02:22 PM Amos - This is an American election. Truth doesn't exist, not with Obama or anywhere else. It's a "read-betwee-the-lines" exercise that every American voter must learn. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 29 Sep 08 - 02:01 PM She'll probably also mention how the Obama campaign is threatening to sue the NRA for advertising on television. I think if you investigate the true story you will find that you have once again distorted the ground truth to suit your personal bias. The Obama campaign is defending against false reports. Surely, you prefer true reportage to false? Or do you not? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Riginslinger Date: 29 Sep 08 - 01:39 PM If Palin is smart, she'll mention the Scott Ritter thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: irishenglish Date: 29 Sep 08 - 01:35 PM For me, there was a moment in the debate that was a microcosm of the entire evening, showing how, I feel, Obama held his own in responding to anything McCain hit him with. It was when McCain, slightly smugly mentioned the bracelet that he wears, trying to paint Obama as insensitive to veterans. The fact that Obama then matter of factly said-John, I wear a bracelet too....was for me the way the entire debate was. I think Obama has definite work to do-he landed some punches, but he didn't get the knockout. McCain on the other hand went for the knockout, but instead was landing a lot of soft jabs. If all the Republicans think they have to attack Biden with in terms of a "soundbite" is the FDR/television quote, I think that will not work to their benefit. Biden could either ignore it, or make a self deprecating joke about his own gaffe pre-emptively. That would settle it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 29 Sep 08 - 11:08 AM "Obama was the only national leader or institution with a net positive rating on handling the Wall Street crisis in a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday and Saturday — 46% approved, 43% disapproved. For McCain, the numbers were 37% approve, 58% disapprove. Democratic and GOP congressional leaders, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and President Bush also did poorly. • Four national tracking polls Sunday showed Obama with leads of 5 to 8 percentage points over McCain. The Gallup version had the largest margin, 50%-42%. All four tracking polls are based on three-night averages, so Sunday's results were the first to include interviews after the debate. Independent analyst Charlie Cook says "neither candidate hit a grand slam or made a serious mistake" in the debate, but Obama was in position to benefit more because he was "the greater unknown factor. To the extent that the debate simply exposed him more and allowed more people to feel more comfortable with him and the idea of him as a president, it may have helped him … in less direct ways than simply widening his lead." Saturday's USA TODAY poll had a margin of error of +/—4 percentage points for the 701 people who said they had watched or listened to the debate. The results suggest McCain did not lose or gain ground: 21% said the debate gave them a more favorable view of him, 21% said less favorable and 56% said it didn't change their opinion much." |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: CarolC Date: 29 Sep 08 - 01:06 AM I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing it's based on ten years of living among some fairly jingoistic and intolerant people in rural upstate New York as an adolescent and teen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,heric Date: 29 Sep 08 - 12:52 AM Some few years ago, I moved to a neighborhood I knew to be populated with several junior and mid-level Naval officers. I was concerned about the culture shock I anticipated to me and to my kids. Not only did I earn to respect them, but (more importantily) I learned that I really like - like very much - most of them. I understand that I was living in ignorance. My prejudices were based on theory instead of real world interaction and knowledge. I lived almost half my life in Canada, and I understand that from exposure to American media, get the idead that that is one crazy assed mess of a crazy assed mass. That was another prejudice born of ignorance and inadequate real world exposure. I had to go through the same lesson as to Hispanic Americans, as I moved southward. So many lessons. All I'm saying, in case it sounded abrasive above, is that you said you don't feel the need to travel. But consider, just consider, that you might learn something THAT YOU DO NOT NOW EXPECT TO LEARN if get that exposure. I need to say it again: somthing that you DO NOT NOW EXPECT YOU WOULD LEARN. You have undoubtedly noticed that you receive kind responses and warm welcomes on an American website as you lecture them about their Nazism and the Roman Empire-like atrocities. You probably have a good idea in mind as to why that would be so - but it is based on theory, isn't it? When you read Time magazine and watch American TV you the idea you are looking in on them and at a haphazard mess. You might even know with some level of personal certainty that what you see is a bubble of paranoid and extremely dangerous political illusions. What a bizarre idea - I'm not saying it is so, but - just try to imagine the possibility, that you might learn from down here that while you were looking down on it - you were in a goldfish bowl after all! Stranger things have happened. To me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,heric Date: 28 Sep 08 - 11:31 PM >Justin, if you were to open your front door and enter the real world (the one that lies outside the USA) you would find that the world in general fears your nation in much the same way that it once feared Nazi Germany, back in the late 1930's...in the years leading up to WWII. Your behaviour and attitude toward other nations is quite similar. Your insistence on being "the greatest country on Earth" is also quite similar to Nazi Germany. You are living inside a bubble of paranoid and extremely dangerous political illusions. < Funny you should say that, LH. I've been thinking lately that it would do you a world of good to get out and travel - especially to face your fears and travel in the U.S. You would have such a GREAT time and I feel certain you would feel much, much better. ------------- I'm glad Amos explained that innuendo. I thought it was something, well, a bit risque for mudcat. Bipartisanship gone wild or something. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: dick greenhaus Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:03 PM "A few choice quotes she may repeat:" I can see Russia from Alaska I don't blink I stopped the bridge to nowhere I don't blink Alaska supplies 30% of the country's energy. Or oil. Or moose. or something I'll get back to yoiu on that. Maverick. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Donuel Date: 28 Sep 08 - 08:29 PM I think we would all prefer Palin debating Hillary, but face it, Hillary got too damn Rovian towardd the end of the primaries. Ruthless bad advice and a loyalty to globalist corporate socialism spoiled the ticket for me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Lonesome EJ Date: 28 Sep 08 - 08:24 PM Kudos to both candidates for expressing their views directly and clearly. To me, this was both men at the tops of their game. Thanks also to Jim Lehrer for allowing both men to respond directly to one another, thus maintaining a cogent flow in the argument. McCain didn't "eat Obama's lunch" any more than Obama ate McCain's. What came across was the different vision each man has for his country, and that discourse beats the hell out of the negative ads and sound bites that commonly dominate the limelight. Anyone who didn't see that debate missed one of the best political conversations we have had the privelege to witness. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Riginslinger Date: 28 Sep 08 - 07:59 PM "A few choice quotes she may repeat:" No, I think she'll probably mention how Biden thought FDR was in office in 1929, and how Roosevelt rushed around to get ready for the cameras so he would look good on television, but was then dismayed to discover it wouldn't be invented yet for another 20 some years. She'll probably also mention how the Obama campaign is threatening to sue the NRA for advertising on television. I think she has a wealth of commentary on hand. She won't have to simply respond to "gotha" questions from a shrew. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 28 Sep 08 - 06:11 PM In a CBS News poll, uncommitted voters see Barack as the debate winner. When it comes to the economy, 66% say Barack would make the right decisions versus 42% for McCain. The CNN poll results are also clear: Who did the best job tonight? Barack: 51 McCain: 38 Who would better handle Iraq? Barack: 52 McCain: 47 Who would better handle the economy? Barack: 58 McCain: 37 |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: katlaughing Date: 28 Sep 08 - 05:50 PM A few choice quotes she may repeat: "Don't be afraid of information and let kids debate both sides," she said. "I would never presume to know God's will or to speak God's words," "Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called..." "There's a time for politics and a time for leadership, a time to campaign and a time to put our country first," she says nearly every time as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Bill D Date: 28 Sep 08 - 05:03 PM Ms. Palin will be hard put to find a few lines she can plug into ANY answer and repeat over & over for 1 1/2 hours " -I would never 2nd guess - I would never 2nd guess - I would never 2nd guess".....but I'm sure she will repeat them with fervor and all the frantic conservatives will crow that she "wiped" whatever with Biden. Those voters who care to listen may have a different view of slogans offered in place of thought & facts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 28 Sep 08 - 03:38 PM The innuendo is that she will be using him as a dishrag, so disparate will their effectiveness in debate be. I do agree that their ability levels will be shown to be highly disparate. But I think Rig's proposition indicates he is built upside down. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 28 Sep 08 - 03:30 PM Palin wipes up with Biden on Thursday. Does that mean the same as "wipes out Biden"? Sounds more like a commendable bit of cooperation across party lines in face of a dishwasher breakdown. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 28 Sep 08 - 03:11 PM By the way, among the blatant falsehood McCain told, and sopme of his supporters have echoed, is the notion that Obama "oppopsed nuclear power as part of the energy solution". To be precise, here is Mister Obama's statement, from a Naturesurvey of his positions on science issues: It is unlikely that we can meet our aggressive climate goals if we eliminate nuclear power as an option. However, before an expansion of nuclear power is considered, key issues must be addressed, including security of nuclear fuel and waste, waste storage and proliferation. The nuclear waste disposal efforts at Yucca Mountain [in Nevada] have been an expensive failure and should be abandoned. I will work with the industry and governors to develop a way to store nuclear waste safely while we pursue long-term solutions. Any questions? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 28 Sep 08 - 02:39 PM "McCain lost control of his campaign and then, in a gimmicky attempt to gain back ground, ended up in the Cabinet Room with W. when the bipartisan economic meeting collapsed in a humiliating nondeal, causing President Bush to lose control of his White House. It was quite a memorable moment in history for the M.B.A. president and the nominee of the party of business. Who would have dreamed that when socialism finally came to the U.S.A. it would be brought not by Bolsheviks in blue jeans but Wall Street bankers in Gucci loafers? The Republicans had a lot to answer for. The Bush administration had been warned about Osama bin Laden attacking and did nothing. It had been warned that there would be a civil war and insurgency if it attacked Iraq. It had been warned that Katrina was coming. It had been warned that the country's financial casinos were courting disaster. W. biked through all those eves of destruction. Given the past week, the debate should have been a cinch for Obama. But, just as in the primaries, he willfully refuses to accept what debates are about. It's not a lecture hall; it's a joust. It's not how cerebral you are. It's how visceral you are. You need memorable, sharp, forceful and witty lines. Even when McCain sneered, "I don't need any on-the-job training, I'm ready to go at it right now," Obama didn't directly respond, but veered off into a story about his father being from Kenya and how he got his name. (Thanks, Barack, we got that from your book. It's great for a memoir, but not a debate.) McCain kept painting Obama as naïve, and dangerous, insisting that he "doesn't quite understand or doesn't get it." Obama should have responded "Senator, I understand perfectly, I'm just saying you're wrong." On the surge, he could have said that McCain was the arsonist who wanted to be praised for the great job he's doing putting out the fire he started. When Obama took quiet umbrage at McCain's attack about troop-funding, he could have pounded the lectern and said with real anger: "John, I am sick and tired of you suggesting that I would take funds away from our brave soldiers. I no more voted for that than you did when you voted against our funding proposals that would have imposed a timetable. And unlike you, I did not vote against funding increases for the troops that have come home with devastating physical and mental injuries." And who cares what Henry Kissinger thinks? He was wrong 35 years ago, and it's only gotten worse since then. Obama did a poor job of getting under McCain's skin. Or maybe McCain did an exceptional job of not letting Obama get under his skin. McCain nattered about earmarks and Obama ran out of gas. We're left waiting for a knockout debate. On to Palin-Biden." (Maureen Dowd, NYT) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Sep 08 - 02:14 PM Justin, if you were to open your front door and enter the real world (the one that lies outside the USA) you would find that the world in general fears your nation in much the same way that it once feared Nazi Germany, back in the late 1930's...in the years leading up to WWII. Your behaviour and attitude toward other nations is quite similar. Your insistence on being "the greatest country on Earth" is also quite similar to Nazi Germany. You are living inside a bubble of paranoid and extremely dangerous political illusions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 28 Sep 08 - 01:27 PM Mwahahahaha!!! That's great, Rig. Sugarplums guard your sleep until then. "Mr. McCain's lead-with-the-chin approach to Russia reflects the same pugnacity that resulted in obscenity-laced dust-ups with fellow Republican senators, but it's less endearing when the risk is nuclear war. Do we really want to risk an exchange of nuclear warheads over Abkhazia or South Ossetia? The Spanish prime minister, José Zapatero, told me a few days ago that what he fears most under a McCain administration is a revival of the cold war with Russia. In Friday's debate, Mr. McCain was on his best behavior. But he did reiterate his suspicion of diplomacy with our enemies, and he has often shown that his instinct in a confrontation (whether with a colleague or a country) is the opposite of John Kennedy's in the Cuban missile crisis; Mr. McCain responds to challenges by seeking to escalate, to fight. All in all, it's astonishing that Mr. McCain seems determined to return to Mr. Bush's first-term policies that have been utterly discredited even within the administration. Judging from Mr. McCain's own positions, on foreign policy he could well end up more Bush than Bush." (NYT column) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Riginslinger Date: 28 Sep 08 - 01:16 PM No! The plan's fine, but it isn't scheduled to go into effect until Palin wipes up with Biden on Thursday. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 28 Sep 08 - 01:12 PM Rig: Ooops! Something went wrong with your plan, maybe its fundamental premises: RCP Average 09/21 - 09/27 -- 47.9 43.1 Obama +4.8 Gallup Tracking 09/25 - 09/27 2719 RV 50 42 Obama +8 Rasmussen Tracking 09/25 - 09/27 3000 LV 50 44 Obama +6 Hotline/FD Tracking 09/25 - 09/27 914 RV 47 42 Obama +5 GW/Battleground Tracking 09/21 - 09/25 1000 LV 46 48 McCain +2 CBS News/NY Times 09/21 - 09/24 LV 48 43 Obama +5 FOX News 09/22 - 09/23 900 RV 45 39 Obama +6 Marist 09/22 - 09/23 689 LV 49 44 Obama +5 |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,Justin Urquart Date: 28 Sep 08 - 12:55 PM Have any of you considered opening your front door and entering the real world ? You could start with this site, you will get all the facts you require and the truth of course, which clearly some of you can't accept. DONOTVOTEFOROBAMA.COM I rest my case. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Stringsinger Date: 28 Sep 08 - 12:43 PM McCain was petulant, snarly, impulsive and mean. Obama was poised, quiet, athoritative and sensible. In the meantime, McCain is getting called out for lies not just by David Letterman but the New York Times who have disclosed McCain's shady gambling deals by quashing Abramoff to protect his own turf. He was in the Club 21 doing a fundraiser when he was supposed to be on that plane to Washington. In the meantime, Sarah Palin is receiving the blessing of Thomas Muthey, a preacher from Nigeria who is in the news because he has hounded an old lady out of her town accused of withcraft by Muthey. Sarah Palin has a huge preacher problem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,Justin Urquart Date: 28 Sep 08 - 11:48 AM WLD, And ?????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Riginslinger Date: 28 Sep 08 - 11:47 AM I don't know. The way things are going, folks might find they need to grow cotton any place they can. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Big Al Whittle Date: 28 Sep 08 - 11:26 AM Justin - I'm willing to bet John McCain would be ashamed to have a supporter like you. Growing cotton on the White House lawn......... its a disgraceful thing to say, and its no wonder you have infuriated people of all political persuasions and nationalities on this site. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Bill D Date: 28 Sep 08 - 11:21 AM Well, Teribus... you note I don't make predictions. I am pointing out that doing so in a bold manner is dangerous. You are quite correct that many here were quite unhappy with the 2004 results...just as we were disgusted with the 2000 results, where the arcane electoral system got the wrong man into office. (and there were very dubious results in 2 states) So...THIS election, the Republicans have the burden of the current administration to carry, and McCain has to do that funny walk where he supports Bush policies in general, but distances himself on almost every specific, and swears he will 'change' all those corrupt ways in Washington - which he is part of and whose basics he ...ummmm.... supports. Makes for a weird message, and the polls are showing it. No wonder we Democratic supporters are cautiously optimistic. Since I can't afford to lose ANY significant amount of money, I don't make large bets, but I kinda think that a $ on Obama might be safe.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Teribus Date: 28 Sep 08 - 10:47 AM You mean just like on Nov.5 2004 BillD, weren't too may on this site smiling and chuckling that day, and of course Kerry was as bound to win that one as assuredly as the same folks are saying that Obama is to winning this one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Bill D Date: 28 Sep 08 - 10:40 AM When someone like Justin makes those kind of predictions, they sure leave themselves open to remarks if they are wrong. These threads don't disappear, and on Nov.5, we will see who can smile and chuckle. Those of us who are registered are kinda stuck... "Justin" might need to become "Rumplestiltskin". |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: dick greenhaus Date: 28 Sep 08 - 10:37 AM A few questions the debate raised (to me, at least). 1. How does John McCain define the Surge? 2. What does McCain think that "victory" in Iraq would consist of. 3. If Obama's planning on funding his progrms, in large part, of mony he wouldn't be spending in Iraq, how will he fund the Afghanistan war? 4. If McCain thinks extensive experience is so important, how can he justify the choice of Palin for VP? 5. Exactly what is meant by "preconditions"? |