 sj |
||
|
||
BS: The Debates: Members Only
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Jeri Date: 07 Oct 08 - 10:38 PM And McCain refused to shake Obama's proferred hand. His wife did, but not McCain. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Oct 08 - 10:46 PM I doubt anyone who has already made up their mind about who to vote for will change their vote based upon this event. Tom Brokaw is the clear loser--he couldn't contain them in the format or time. They wanted to answer and rebut completely, and since they are the parties who set up the original agreement for the meeting, they can change the rules along the way, but they fell back on the same old arguments to do it. There wasn't anything new here. The first debate was better. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: catspaw49 Date: 07 Oct 08 - 11:21 PM Any comment here leads some credence to the whole damn thing so let me say, NO COMMENT. Why do they even bother with this shit? Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Don Firth Date: 07 Oct 08 - 11:29 PM Anybody get a count of how many times McCain addressed the audience as "...my friends...?" It was beginning to get a little tedious. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Azizi Date: 07 Oct 08 - 11:51 PM McCain's macaca moment-referring to Obama as "That one". |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Peace Date: 07 Oct 08 - 11:58 PM "I suspect McCain will brand Obama for exactly what he is!" Yeah. The next President of the United States of America. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: dick greenhaus Date: 08 Oct 08 - 12:02 AM The only real surprise was McCain's statement that the Government should buy up all the bad mortgages and renegotiate them. Oddly it echoes something Biden said about adjusting both interest rates and principals. Even more oddly, nobody pursued the point. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: CarolC Date: 08 Oct 08 - 12:15 AM I think that was already voted on in the big bailout bill. McCain has perhaps not yet read the bill he just voted on. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: michaelr Date: 08 Oct 08 - 01:14 AM Palin's husband is part of a movement that wants Alaska to secede from the US. Isn't that treason? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Richard Bridge Date: 08 Oct 08 - 03:10 AM Oh dear, the KKK is back. Jolly darkies gathering cotton, and displaying their natural sense of rhythm, but somehow childlike and in need of de white massa's firm but loving hand? Cotton indeed! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: GUEST,LSM Date: 08 Oct 08 - 03:30 AM Questions answered next month Richard, let's see how much noise you make then ! So nice to see a members only thread full of "GUEST" posts ! that really makes a joke of it. Yes several guest posts up there still. Love to stay and talk Richard, but have to spread the jam here on the toast, saving up the tokens on the jar for my next little brass badge, fancy the golfer this time ;-)
You're welcome to post in any of the other threads, but keep your insults to yourself. -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Oct 08 - 06:02 AM If a member's cookie goes down and they come in as a GUEST they are still a member. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Riginslinger Date: 08 Oct 08 - 06:04 AM "And McCain refused to shake Obama's proferred hand. His wife did, but not McCain." I wouldn't make too much of that. I've noticed that McCain usually only shakes hands with his left hand. I suspect his other arm doesn't have the mobility. It might look more awkward than it really was, and be totally unintentional. The focus group that they questioned after the debate thought McCain did better on the economy. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: John MacKenzie Date: 08 Oct 08 - 06:23 AM I would suggest LSM that it would be more useful if you made a comment that is cogent to the subject of the thread, and stopped trying to score points. XG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Bobert Date: 08 Oct 08 - 08:22 AM CNN poll this morning: Obama won: 54% McCain won: 30% Personally, I thought that McCain was 100% McCain and that seems to be a problem for him... He is a mean spirited little man with a bad temper... I agree wholeheartedly with MiziAzizi that the "That One" comment was McCain's "macaca moment" and will probably be looked back upon when the McCain Straight Talking Bus went off the cliff... But what bothers me is that rather than try to salvage any level of respect McCain and Palin have decided to turn to a racist campign with all kinds of codified language.... I also find it amazing that someone in the crowd at one of Palin's events yelled "Kill him!" in regards to Obama and Palin didn't respond... Oh yeah, the Repubs will say that she didn't hear it... Well, that's bull... She heard it allright... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Pseudolus Date: 08 Oct 08 - 08:41 AM I think that Obama will stay above the fray where the "that one" comment is concerned. He's leading in all the polls, McCain is in trouble and he knows it. Going after McCain on that would be seen as stooping down to his level and I think Obama is smart enough to see that. McCain knows that he didn't have the kind of decisive win he needed to spark the campaign which in my opinion is why he left so quickly after the debate ended. Obama was out there by himslef working the crowd, looking like the winner of the debate and to me, looking like the next President. Frank |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Charley Noble Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:10 AM Happy to see some comments on this debate which I missed by attending the sea music session in Gloucester last night. I was sort of hoping that Obama would confronte McCain on the nasty shift his campaign has shifted to. This is not the kind of campaign that McCain said he would run a few months ago, and desparation is no excuse for such mean-spirited, guilt by association, sneer-sneer, stuff that I'm seeing now. Charley Noble, on the road home from Getaway |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Amos Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:48 AM "...They saw through the rhetoric. Made note of every zinger — as well as many of the inconsistencies. And while analyzing Tuesday night's presidential debate, Valley High School debate champs were impressed by Sen. Barack Obama's command and taken aback by Sen. John McCain's "crude" barbs. The Mercury News invited champion debaters from Bellarmine College Preparatory and Leland High School to assess the second presidential debate. Both schools are in San Jose and many of the students in the Democratic-heavy Bay Area said their parents are Obama supporters. Eight of the eleven students said Obama handily won and stood out as the more persuasive, and more presidential, figure. One student gave the edge to McCain; two pronounced it a draw. However, many said the debate probably changed few voters' minds. "After the initial pokes and jabs, it was a race to the middle," said Sagar Vijay, a senior at Bellarmine. "Obama had a better command of rhetoric. When he talked of how his mother died of cancer, he put himself in others' shoes." A key moment in the 90-minute town-hall-style debate held in Nashville was when McCain pointed his finger at Obama and referred to his fellow senator as "that one" in reference to a Senate vote on a controversial energy bill. That elicited audible gasps from the teenagers, all of whom are too young to vote in the Nov. 4 election. "McCain was a lot more crude," said Vijay Sridharan, a junior at -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Advertisement -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bellarmine. "His pointing to Obama and the phrase 'that one.' To see that lack of professionalism on a presidential debate was shocking." Many students said the candidates largely stuck to their key talking points and repeated catchphrases from the campaign trail, breaking little new ground, though they noted McCain outlined a new plan to buy bad mortgages and that both sides seemed to repeatedly return to energy policy. One note of particular interest to Silicon Valley: McCain mentioned Meg Whitman, eBay's former CEO, as a possible choice for Treasury secretary; however, it caused a few in the room to mutter, "Didn't they just do layoffs?" Many students said Obama did a better job of spelling out specific policy proposals and looking to the future, while McCain seemed stuck in the past. "McCain used a kind of 'Back to the Future' approach," said Taman Narayan, a senior at Leland High School. "He kept saying, 'My friends, look at Ronald Reagan, look at Teddy Roosevelt, look at the surge.' Obama took the mantle and moved it forward.'' Noting Obama's call to fight climate change and characterizing health care as an American "right" — as opposed to McCain calling it a "responsibility" — Bellarmine senior Evan Larson said, "Obama kept calling us to embrace our highest values."..." (MErcury NEws) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Amos Date: 08 Oct 08 - 01:25 PM Forbes opines: Obama Wins Debates, Increases Lead in Key States There may be some discussion about whether the town hall format worked for last night's debate (moderator Tom Brokaw repeatedly had to scold both candidates for ignoring the time limits and debate rules), but Barack Obama walked away with the win. Voters wanted to hear specifics on the economy, health care, and foreign policy. Overall, Obama provided more of those than John McCain. Trailwatch readers agree. As of this morning, 74% of people who participated in our admittedly unscientific poll thought that Obama won. This is another blow for the McCain campaign, which was counting on this format to work to his advantage. John McCain has participated in hundreds of town hall forums with voters and the expectation was that he would be in his element. The debate's impact on voters has yet to show up in state-by-state and national results, but we have some new numbers from polls taken just prior to the debate. Nationally, Obama leads McCain by a little over five points--this according to the poll average from Real Clear Politics. Obama has added to his poll lead in Colorado, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. In 2004, John Kerry won Pennsylvania, New Hampshire and Wisconsin but he lost in Colorado, Ohio and Nevada. A glance at our Electoral College Map shows that if Obama can just add those three states, and hold on to all of the states that John Kerry won in 2004, he will win in November. In New Hampshire, a state that was mentioned in last night's debate, Obama's lead has increased by 2.2 percentage points; he leads 52% to McCain's 41%. A win in New Hampshire along with Nevada, where Obama leads by 3 points, and Wisconsin, where Obama is ahead by 8 points over McCain, would get the Democrats to the magic number of 270 Electoral College votes. On top of that, Obama leads the polls in the 2004 Bush states of Florida and Virginia and even has a slight poll edge in North Carolina and Missouri. ... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Amos Date: 08 Oct 08 - 02:54 PM CNN) -- iReporters across the country agree that Sen. Barack Obama won the second presidential debate Tuesday at Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee. Students at Northern Virginia Community College gather to watch the second presidential debate Tuesday. Dozens of iReporters sent in video reactions to the debate between Obama and Sen. John McCain. While the majority said that Obama came out ahead, several iReporters called the face-off a tie. The reaction from iReporters reflects the results of a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey that was conducted after the debate. Fifty-four percent of respondents said Obama performed better in the debate, while 30 percent said McCain fared better. Frequent iReporter Jason Dinant noted that McCain went into the debate with the advantage of the town hall meeting. "However, at the end, hands-down Barack Obama won this debate," he said. Dinant, who lives in Las Vegas, Nevada, said he is now an undecided voter. Originally a supporter of former Democratic candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton, he later switched his vote to McCain. After watching both presidential debates, he is now considering voting for Obama in the presidential election. iReport.com: Watch why Dinant is tried of hearing the phrase 'my friends' Obama "came off as definitely more knowledgeable in this debate," he said. "Sometimes McCain stumbled and you could definitely see it through his lies." ... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: katlaughing Date: 08 Oct 08 - 04:18 PM I am going to make a new bumper sticker with McCain's face on it, the no symbol drawn over that and the words "You are NOT "my friend!" written under it! It's getting to the point where I loathe hearing his voice almost as much as the shrub's. bobad, you'd think those would be admirable attributes, but it's the last bit, tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded. that sticks in the craw of the far wrong...they are full of fear which keeps them from being open and tolerant and they don't want anyone else to be, either! My new son-in-law, who still has some learning to do, imo, thinks it is funny to see a bumper sticker, here, with the hammer and sickle next to Obama's name. I didn't have the presence of mind to ask him why. My daughter works with a woman who proudly sports one, too. I guess Joe Mcwhatshisname, McCarthy, must be proud. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: irishenglish Date: 08 Oct 08 - 04:44 PM My friends....maverick My friends.....Joe Lieberman My friends.....Ronald Reagan My friends....Teddy Roosevelt My friends....That one My friends....maverick You get the rest! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Amos Date: 08 Oct 08 - 05:47 PM Funny--I ended up so frustrated at his transparent snake-oil duplicity that I ended up yelling at the TV: JOHN!!!! WE'RE NOT YOUR FRIENDS!!!!!!! A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: heric Date: 08 Oct 08 - 06:39 PM Big hands? Doesn't attract me, really. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Riginslinger Date: 08 Oct 08 - 08:00 PM "JOHN!!!! WE'RE NOT YOUR FRIENDS!!!!!!!" Of course you are. You just don't know it yet. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: katlaughing Date: 08 Oct 08 - 08:04 PM Me, too, Amos. Good one, irishenglish! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Alice Date: 08 Oct 08 - 08:32 PM With friends like John McCain, who needs enemies. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: CarolC Date: 08 Oct 08 - 08:52 PM (... with friends like John McCain, who needs enemas ) :-\ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Amos Date: 08 Oct 08 - 08:59 PM Rig: I am SO glad there is someone like you around who knows me better than I know myself, and can help straighten me out by telling me what's good for me. Not. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: dick greenhaus Date: 08 Oct 08 - 09:42 PM Of course J McC likes Teddy Roosevelt-----he spoke at his high school graduation ceremonies. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:14 PM A friend today suggested making up lapel buttons that say, in big letters, THAT ONE, 2008!" Dave Oesterreich |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Alice Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:41 PM I posted this in another thread, but if you go to www.cafepress.com, there are LOTS of people creating Obama buttons, tee shirts, bumperstickers, etc., using the "I'm voting for That One" theme. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Riginslinger Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:42 PM "Not." You're sure? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Art Thieme Date: 08 Oct 08 - 11:05 PM The Dianne Rheem (spelling?) show on NPR Thursday -- tomorrow -- is a discussion on CAPITALISM!!! It is way overdue. As I said in the recent thread here a week or so ago, this system, with it's horrendous excesses and criminal machinations, must be, at the very least, seriously questioned!! I do want to hear this discussion. We sure didn't hear anyone speak of this very relevant and basic topic in any of the debates. Art Thieme |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: TIA Date: 08 Oct 08 - 11:19 PM Can't let Bobert's observation above pass... In the interest of fair and balanced, there are now several newsreels (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVFWahLTdUo) where you can clearly hear McCain-Palin rally attendees shouting "terrorist", "treason", and - more than once - "kill him". If Obama is to be held accountable for the words and deeds of any of his supporters (let's say Wright or Ayers for instance), should we not expect McCain and Palin to repudiate, deny, reject (or whatever the hell the proper word was) these obscene and dangerous cries from their supporters? I'm serious. The specter of Bobby Kennedy (I know that reference got Hillary in trouble, but there it is...) and Martin Luther King Jr. looms (God or Dog Forbid). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Richard Bridge Date: 09 Oct 08 - 07:31 AM Rig says you will be McWar's friends in due course. I'd be more worried, if he were elected, that you'd pretty soon have to learn to like what you were damned well told to like. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Riginslinger Date: 09 Oct 08 - 07:39 AM "...should we not expect McCain and Palin to repudiate, deny, reject (or whatever the hell the proper word was) these obscene and dangerous cries from their supporters?" It's very doubtful in McCain and Palin have any idea who these people are. It would make sense that security people in the crowd (secret service and etc.) should identify them, follow and maybe investigate them, but it seems to me that it would be counter-productive for any of the candidates comment on these loonies. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Bobert Date: 09 Oct 08 - 08:05 AM It's not a matter of who these pweople are, Rigs, if you have them yellin' "Kill him" during a campaign speech... That is the point where any person who is truely qualified to be president of this country ***should*** stop the prepared speech and interject that those kinds of thoughts are not acceptable... I mean, yeah, we all have vivid memories of Bobby Kennedy laying there in that hotel in California and dieing in front of the cameras... This is not an acceptable and if Obama is ever hurt (or killed) some of his blood will be on the hands of McCain and Palin who, by their silence on the issue, give a tacit approval to these people to think (and perhaps act) that assasination is just fine with them... There is no other way to look at this... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Emma B Date: 09 Oct 08 - 08:09 AM "This greatest opportunity in American history to educate the voters by debating the large issues of the campaign failed," wrote one of our greatest historians. The debates were "remarkably successful in reducing great national issues to trivial dimensions." "Finally, the television watching voter was left to judge, not on issues explored by thoughtful men, but on the relative capacity of the two candidates to perform under television stress." The author was Daniel Boorstin, and he was writing about the Kennedy-Nixon debates of 1960. From Against The Grain The Vanishing Character Of McCain And Obama by Dick Meyer 'Nowadays, of course, those four black-and-white debates are recalled as a pinnacle of modern politics, as sober, intellectual and minimally stage-managed conversations between two statesmen who showed mastery of the world's issues. Boorstin saw them as farce. With a month left in the 2008 campaign, I cannot imagine Boorstin's grave is large enough for adequate rolling over.' |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Riginslinger Date: 09 Oct 08 - 09:18 AM "...any person who is truely qualified to be president of this country ***should*** stop the prepared speech and interject that those kinds of thoughts are not acceptable... I mean, yeah, we all have vivid memories of Bobby Kennedy laying there in that hotel in California and dieing in front of the cameras..." My experience with hecklers is, the only people who really know what is actually being said are the people who are sitting right around the heckler. To everyone else, it just sounds like a bunch of noise. We all sit there and turn to each other and ask, "What is he saying?" I don't recall any heckling taking place before Bobby Kennedy was shot. The killer just ran out from behind a group of people and pulled the trigger. All of that having been said, it seems to me that most politicians put down hecklers as quickly as he/she can. Sarah Palin is the best I've ever seen at it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: John MacKenzie Date: 09 Oct 08 - 09:28 AM But would it work on Al Quaeda, or the Taliban, Rig? Repartee isn't much use against an AK47. XG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Alice Date: 09 Oct 08 - 09:34 AM Wow. Rig has been going to Palin rallies and watching her put down hecklers. Really? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: CarolC Date: 09 Oct 08 - 09:35 AM I think that the kind of incitement that McCain and especially Palin are engaging in at Obama's expense is definitely creeping into brownshirt territory. And the kinds of responses they're getting now to it (shouts of "kill him!" being the worst example), are perfectly in keeping with the kind of message they're putting out. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:06 AM Riginslinger commented: All of that having been said, it seems to me that most politicians put down hecklers as quickly as he/she can. These shouts of "Kill Him!", though, are not heckling; they're against the opposition, not the speaker. And if the speaker doesn't publicly disown them, then and there, the impression, at least, is that the speaker doesn't object to them or even endorses them. Dave Oesterreich |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: PoppaGator Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:33 AM "...it seems to me that most politicians put down hecklers as quickly as he/she can. Sarah Palin is the best I've ever seen at it." If Palin can hear "hecklers" who voice disagreement with her, and is so good at responding to them, how can anyone claim that she (& McCain) couldn't possibly hear loud shouts of "Kill him!" and shouldn't be expected to respond to those inappropriate reactions? The answer, I think, is that in their desperation, the GOP candidates are intentionally whipping up irrational fear and hatred, and have no intention of interrupting the development of a fully rabble-roused atmosphere at their rallies by scolding any of their most rabid followers. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Azizi Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:48 AM Even if Sarah Palin or John McCain didn't hear those hate fulled statements {which I doubt}, because of media coverage of those statements, they know about them now. What, if anything, has the McCain/Palin campaign done to repudiate those statements. And what, if any, changes has the McCain/Palin campaign made in their speeches and theirads to tone down their rhetoric so that their supporters would get the message that it's not okay to make such statements? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Azizi Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:53 AM Clarification: I doubt that Sarah Palin and John McCain did not hear those hate fulled, dangerous statements from their supporters. But if they are saying that they didn't hear them, now that they know about them, what are they doing about those statements and what changes are they making in their statements and ads that encourage those dangerous and hate fulled statements? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:56 AM I seem to recal a number of effigies of Bush , Cheney, and Rove that were being hung, with no protest by any here.... As long as the Democratic party is running a campaign of fear ( Beware the Boogie-man Bush! McCain is Bush- BE AFRAID!) there will be some response by the extreme conservatives at an equal level- NEITHER is appropriate or desirable. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Alice Date: 09 Oct 08 - 11:03 AM It is ironic that the educational charity board of Chicago Annenberg Challenge, that Ayers and Obama served on, was a project of the Annenberg Family Foundation. Lenore Annenberg is a McCain supporter. By association, I guess she was palling around with terrorists, too. This is so ridiculous, it is hard to believe McCain can push this idea with a straight face. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Azizi Date: 09 Oct 08 - 11:07 AM Here's an excerpt from The Tampa Tribune Published: October 9, 2008 New Political Challenges Require Original McCain "He [McCain] also has failed to guide his vice presidential pick, Sarah Palin, who is inexperienced on the national stage. At a recent rally in Clearwater, Palin was hammering Obama's association with a former radical when someone in the audience shouted, "Kill him!" Palin let it pass. Another overwrought fan was reported to have shouted a racial epithet at a black member of a news crew. Other reporters covering the event were verbally abused by the crowd. Is this the tone the campaign seeks? McCain has either lost control of the campaign or endorses her rough campaign tactics. With the ticket trailing in the polls, Palin's role is to excite the base, not dangerously incite it"... http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/oct/09/na-new-political-challenges-require-original-mccai/news-opinion-editorials/ |
