BS: Popular Views on Palin

Subject: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 09:48 PM

A Fox News employee says she did poorly in the debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 09:52 PM

Not your normal Fox News employee:   


    Bob Beckel managed Walter Mondale's 1984 presidential campaign. He is a senior political analyst for the Fox News Channel and a columnist for USA Today. Beckel is the co-author with Cal Thomas of the book "Common Ground."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 10:04 PM

Tonight's episode of Countdown has views bound to be popular with half the country

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 05:00 AM

You got lousy Countdown in your country.

In England, you get nine letters and you can choose vowels or consonants, and the one who makes up the longest word wins that round. Every three rounds there is a numbers round and at the end, there is a conundrum. Coupled with exciting theme music by Ronnie Hazelhurst, and a sexy looking lady doing the sums on a blackboard, its quite a good programme.

You would like it better than that rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 05:12 AM

Carol Vorderman....sexy???

Are there no sheep in England?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Peace
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 05:46 AM

Hold up the home turf, Ake. We in the diaspora salute you.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 07:12 AM

:0)...nice one Brucie

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 03:04 PM

I like countdown. Its like "This hour has 22 minutes" but with more real news. Its like the Daily show with longer rants and less mugging and less vaudville humor.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 10:48 PM

Sean Puff Daddy-P Diddy Combs...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 11:41 PM

The best political allies McCain/Palin could ever have.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 10:26 AM

Palin said "Obama is palin round with terrists"

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 08:50 PM

Palin wins McCain loses?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: John O'L
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 09:24 PM

That is a scary article.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 09:45 PM

Interesting article. I think it is right for sure about one thing, anyway...Palin is taking over as the central hope of the Republican Party in this election, because McCain's weaknesses are becoming very obvious. So, yeah, it is becoming an Obama vs Palin election.

And does she have the hubris to contemplate being president without even blinking? You betcha. She would not hesitate for a second.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 12:01 AM

A friend sent a funny remark earlier, and I have the impression it was sent to her by someone who reads Garrison Keillor's editorial material. I can't find the actual link, but I'll keep looking. Meanwhile, here it is:

While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75-year old Arizona rancher whose hand was caught in a gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. Eventually the topic got around to Sarah Palin and her bid to be a heartbeat away from being President.

The old rancher said, 'Well, ya know, Palin is a post turtle.'

Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a post turtle was.

The old rancher said, 'When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle.'

The old rancher saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he continued to explain. "You know she didn't get up there by herself, she doesn't belong up there, she doesn't know what to do while she is up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put her up there to begin with."

Meanwhile, Keillor did say this in his blog at Salon.com on Sept. 24:

The Republican Party used to specialize in gimlet-eyed, steel-rim, crepe-soled common sense and then it was taken over by crooked preachers who demand we trust them because they're packing a Bible and God sent them on a mission to enact lower taxes, less government. Except when things crash, and then government has to pick up the pieces.

Some say the tab might come to a trillion dollars. Nobody knows. And Mr. McCain has not one moment of doubt or regret. He switches from First Deregulation Church to Our Lady of Strict Vigilance like you might go from decaf to latte. Where is the straight talk? Does the man have no conscience?

It wasn't their money they were playing with. It was yours. Where were the cops?

What we are seeing is the stuff of a novel, the public corruption of an American war hero. It is painful. First, there was his exploitation of a symbolic woman, an eager zealot who is so far out of her depth that it isn't funny anymore. Anyone with a heart has to hurt for how Mr. McCain has made a fool of her. Never mind the persistent cheesiness of his attack ads. And now this chasm of debt and loss and the gentleman pretends to be shocked. He was there. He turned out the lights. He sent the regulators home.

I picked up some of it. The rest is here.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: John O'L
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 02:02 AM

This about says it all:

Non Sequitur

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 03:58 AM

It's about energy , conviction,...... and theatre.

If the American people really understood American politics, they would hand the country back to the "Indians" and get back on the boat for home.

And I'm not just referring to the great unwashed, I mean all the liberals and apologists who think tinkering with the economic system can bring this wonderful thing called "change".

Actually, the liberals and pseudo- intellectuals we see on these boards are much more damaging to our heath than Mrs Palin and all her family put together.

Palin for president?....I think you might just get "change"

Subject: Lyric: My song on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 10:06 AM

I told the witchdoctor that Sarah Palin's cursed,
I told the witchdoctor that Sarah Palin's cursed,
And then the witchdoctor he told me what to do,
He said that

Oo, ee, oo ah ah,
Ting tang,
Wasila willa bing bang,
Oo ee, oo ah ah,
Ting tang,
Wasila willa bang bang

Oo, ee, oo ah ah,
Ting tang,
Wasila willa bing bang,
Oo ee, oo ah ah,
Ting tang,
Wasila willa bang bang

I told the witchdoctor that Wall Street's come unglued,
I told the witchdoctor the bail out isn't nice,
And then the witch doctor he gave me this advice,
He said that

Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Ting tang,
Wasila willa bing bang,
Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Ting tang,
Wasila willa bang bang

Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Ting tang,
Wala wala bing bang,
Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Ting tang,
Wasila willa bang bang

They've been takin cash from me just like it was their own,
And I'll admit I wasn't very smart,
So I went out and found myself a guy thats so much wiser,
And he taught me to listen to my heart,

My friend Obama he taught me what to say,
My friend Obama he taught me what to do,
I know we've been ripped off so I now say this to you

Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Sub Prime,
Wasila willa bing bang,
Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Sub Prime,
Wasila willa bang bang

Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Sub Prime,
Wasila willa bing bang,
Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Sub Prime,
Wasila willa bang bang

They've been takin cash from me just like it was their own,
And I'll admit I wasn't very smart,
So I went out and found myself a guy thats so much wiser,
And he taught me to listen to my heart,

My friend Obama he taught me what to say,
My friend Obama he taught me what to do,
I know that you'll be mine when I say this to you
Oh baby

Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Sub Prime,
Wasila willa bing bang,
Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Sub Prime,
Wasila willa bang bang

Come on and
Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Sub Prime,
Wasila willa bing bang,
Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Sub Prime,
Wasila willa bang bang

Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Sub Prime,
Wasila willa bing bang,
Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Sub Prime,
Wasila willa bang bang

Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Sub Prime,
Wasila willa bing bang,
Cred, dit, Dee fault swap,
Sub Prime,
Wasila willa bang bang

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 10:36 AM

Palin represents everything that is wrong with our country.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 11:14 AM

Palin respects everything that is wrong with our country.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 11:18 AM

"resists"

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 11:38 AM

Anagram for Maverick

Mark Vice.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 03:31 PM

She's one smart, beautiful, wise, and wonderful person. Has to be, since she was born the same day I was (only 19 years apart).

My brother wants to see her elected. He reasons that when you say "That MOTHER in Washington!" you'll be speaking the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 07:53 PM

Hell, Rap, even you would be better as VP than Palin. Maybe you could work out a deal, based on the common birthdays. I'd hate to see what she'd do to your library if you truly traded, so maybe she'll toddle off to Alaska and bask in her publicity and not think about libraries.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 01:13 AM

Rap, I'm sure you are right. The two of you have a great deal in common.

A niece of mine was born on Hitler's birthday and is a lovely woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 09:06 AM

I would probably have made a lovely woman. My mother was.

Of course, I base my birth date upon what my mother told me. I don't remember seeing a calendar until several days after I was born and by then it was too late to do anything about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 09:07 AM

"A niece of mine was born on Hitler's birthday and is a lovely woman."

    Wait until they sign a new and updated Treaty of Versailles!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: TIA
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 09:59 AM

On Sunday, the Priest stopped one inch short of explicitly endorsing McCain/Palin. He said it would be a sin and counter to the Catholic church to vote for someone who is not pro-life.

I came away a little puzzled. My father grew up in (and ran away from) a Church like Palin's, in which Catholics were routinely denounced as (misguided at best, or) under the sway of the devil. So, I did a little googling.

Apparently her church believes the same. They believe that Mary is the Great Harlot, and that their church prayer expedition to Nepal led (happily?) to the death of Mother Teresa, and an earthquake that destroyed the Basilica of St. Francis.

Does Palin believe this stuff? If so, I suppose that saying she is pro-life (her pro-choice comments to Katie Couric notwithstanding) absolves her of any Catholic hating.

more

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 10:02 AM

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/01/vatican-official-attacks-us-democrats-as-party-of-death/

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Bee
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 10:07 AM

When I was a teenager, before abortion was legal here, trains to New York, where it was legal, often carried young Nova Scotia women with dollars donated by women's groups to buy a safe abortion there. I really don't want to see that bit of history replayed in reverse.

Allayez, remember to vote!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: bobad
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 10:10 AM

"Vatican official attacks U.S. Democrats as "party of death""

That's rather rich coming from the "religion of death".

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 10:18 AM

And one could say:


In WW II, I saw trains carrying Jews from Holland, where it was illegal to kill them, to Poland where they were sent to the death camps. After all, they were not really human, anyway... (By Law, at the time and plce.)    (NOTE the statement is SARCASM))

I really don't want to see that history replayed either.

As I have stated, in the viewpoint of the Pro-Life ( anti-abortion), the killing of a human being is murder. They have accepted a definition of humanity that is from conception until death. It might be conveniant to say some other points, and allow abortions or euthanasia, but to those accepting the definitons, those actions ARE murder.


Until BOTH sides try to understand what the other side believes, there will never be a consensus in society as to what level of killing is to be allowed.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: TIA
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 10:34 AM

BB-

Your link is a perfect example of the disconnect. The Vatican is perfectly okay to be called the Whore Church, and perfectly okay with someone who belongs to a church that claims to have killed Mother Teresa through prayer **as long as the person(s) doing these things call themselves pro-life**!

I'm not arguing with the Catholic definition of life. I just think it's a little kooky to endorse someone who demonizes (literally) you simply because you agree on one issue. And how exactly is claiming the killing of Mother Teresa pro-life?

My discussion is not about abortion, it's about an apparent mental disconnect. (Although, I suppose that these are not uncommon - perhaps even necessary - among the religious).

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 01:20 PM

Latest news ....Federal Reserve is by-passing the American banking system and buying-in to top American companies with your dollars.

Better get the revolution started quick comrades, or "you'll be sure be left behind, when we're sailing through the air"

Is Mr Obama another "Che".....I think not, I'll follow the lady with the gun.....Ake

Posted this on another thread , but suits this one better

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 02:25 PM

Yes, the lady with the gun is absolutely the right answer. And she really has a knack for putting hecklers in their place.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 06:12 PM

That would be Patti Hearst?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 06:36 PM

No! Patti Hearst was never that good with hecklers.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 06:36 PM

Let's bring back Bonnie and Clyde (they could maybe still be cloned?) and have them run for president and VP, I say. That'd spice things up some. They didn't put up with hecklers either.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:00 PM

The lady with the gun is another Che?

( ...no, she's just hot)


[Posted in the other thread also]

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:02 PM

Putting hecklers in their place? So what did she say to the person in the audience who, in response to her question, "what should we do with Obama?", said, "KILL HIM!"?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:13 PM

What is that giant "sucking" sound I hear?


(It's the collective blood supply of the male population of the Western world going south... )

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:20 PM

She said: (paraphrasing) Bless your heart, sir. My son is fighting in Iraq to you can have the privledge to protest!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:33 PM

She said that to the guy who called for killing Obama?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 08:22 PM

She probably giggled.

By the way - and with finality - just in case any of you are under the impression or have latched onto the fantasy of "the lady with the gun", the woman in tha photo is not Sarah Palin. They tacked her head onto some one else's body, as I suspect that deep down, you know.

Stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 08:28 PM

If that was her response to the guy who called for killing Obama, I guess I would say I find it interesting that Palin considers killing people a legitimate form or protest that her son is in Iraq fighting to preserve as a privilege.

I also find it interesting that Palin considers protest to be a privilege rather than a right. I must say, though, that I don't find it at all surprising.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 08:30 PM

Correction...

*legitimate form of protest

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 01:00 AM

Rig,

They sure have you fooled. Palin is so bad at thinking on her feet that they GOP has even been screening her hecklers.

Nowadays she needs the script approved by Shmidt to order a a cup of coffee.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 03:02 AM

Ebbie ...It was a joke.
Actually I think Carol is much hotter than "the lady with the gun", but I'm sorry to say that of the two Mrs Palin seems more of a revolutionary these days....Ake   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 04:10 AM

;-)


I have no doubt that Sarah Palin is a revolutionary. But the kind of revolution she is involved in is more of a Dominionist nature, than anything else. To quote the lady with the gun, "Thanks, but no thanks".

I've never claimed to be a revolutionary, myself. I'm just me.

This is how I see the times we're in right now, using a refrigerator as a metaphor - the fridge needs to be cleaned out. We will get to that job in time. But before we can start cleaning the fridge, we need to open the door and turn the light on. First things first.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 06:08 AM

"She said that to the guy who called for killing Obama?"


                  On the blurb that I heard, you couldn't make out what the guy was saying, but I'd be amazed if it had anything to do with killing Obama. Anyway, it certainly shut him up.




      "They sure have you fooled. Palin is so bad at thinking on her feet that they GOP has even been screening her hecklers."

             It was the best and quickest response I've ever seen to a heckler.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 07:04 AM

Apparently someone did yell, "kill him!" in response to Palin's incitements against Obama at a Florida event, but Palin just ignored it. Hardly surprising, I suppose. According to the top strategist in the McCain campaign, "If we keep talking about the economic crisis, we're going to lose".

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 09:32 AM

Carol I was doing a pic of a giant mossquito sucking money from the puckered planet Earth dry. That was the sucking sound.

MSNBC Oberman show replayed the angry Palin mov with a guy yelling KILL HIM as well as the crowd yelling that Obama was a terrorist in response to the question Obama, who is he.

As angry mobs go, they were not stirred to a 3rd Reich frenzy but they damn well better put some brakes on inciting a crowd to murder lest they become somthing more than accomplices.

My dear State Police of Maryland went on a mission for a state senator to round up domestic terrorists against the war.
As a result some 400 people were listed as terrorists right here in Maryland. The police captain did make a public apology to two nuns who were listed as terrorists and banned from many priviledges other citizens enjoy like a checking account or commercial flying. The rest will be notified by mail before the peace terrorist police records are supposedly removed from the national data base.

The police involved have all been found innocent of any wrong doing.
Some new reccomendations have been made that written reprimands will be given officers for capriciously listing citzens en mass as terrorists without a diligent investigation.

VERE R YOOR PAPERS! AHA YOU R A TERRORIST! take them away.


we are close people, very close.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 09:58 AM

"How in the world can conservative commentators write with a straight face that this woman should be vice president of the United States? Do these people understand what serious trouble our country is in right now?

We are in the middle of an economic perfect storm, and we don't know how much worse it's going to get. People all over the world are hoarding cash, and no bank feels that it can fully trust anyone it is doing business with anywhere in the world. Did you notice that the government of Iceland just seized the country's second-largest bank and today is begging Russia for a $5 billion loan to stave off "national bankruptcy." What does that say? It tells you that financial globalization has gone so much farther and faster than regulatory institutions could govern it. Our crisis could bankrupt Iceland! Who knew?

And we have not yet even felt the full economic brunt here. I fear we may be at that moment just before the tsunami hits — when the birds take flight and the insects stop chirping because their acute senses can feel what is coming before humans can. At this moment, only good governance can save us. I am not sure that this crisis will end without every government in every major economy guaranteeing the creditworthiness of every financial institution it regulates. That may be the only way to get lending going again. Organizing something that big and complex will take some really smart governance and seasoned leadership.

Whether or not I agree with John McCain, he is of presidential timber. But putting the country in the position where a total novice like Sarah Palin could be asked to steer us through possibly the most serious economic crisis of our lives is flat out reckless. It is the opposite of conservative.

And please don't tell me she will hire smart advisers. What happens when her two smartest advisers disagree?

And please also don't tell me she is an "energy expert." She is an energy expert exactly the same way the king of Saudi Arabia is an energy expert — by accident of residence. Palin happens to be governor of the Saudi Arabia of America — Alaska — and the only energy expertise she has is the same as the king of Saudi Arabia's. It's about how the windfall profits from the oil in their respective kingdoms should be divided between the oil companies and the people.

At least the king of Saudi Arabia, in advocating "drill baby drill," is serving his country's interests — by prolonging America's dependence on oil. My problem with Palin is that she is also serving his country's interests — by prolonging America's dependence on oil. That's not patriotic. Patriotic is offering a plan to build our economy — not by tax cuts or punching more holes in the ground, but by empowering more Americans to work in productive and innovative jobs. If Palin has that kind of a plan, I haven't heard it.

.." (NYT Ed)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:10 AM

"Whether or not I agree with John McCain, he is of presidential timber."


                      And Obama is not!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:16 AM

Rig,

I have to disagree. It does appear that Obama is capable of being president- but I do not support either his stated ( with unspecified means of getting there) points, nor the ones that he has supported in his (few) votes as a public offocial.


I would NOT say that he is not qualified- just not what I would want to have as president.


And, IMHO, his election would lead this country to nuclear war far more surely than McCain (or Palin).

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:19 AM

Wrong again, Rig,. The difference is that McCain is of a different kind of timber from the neck up--knotty oak, I think.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:23 AM

Whereas Obama is like poplar- fast growing, but not durable or long lasting.


As I said, Obama would be a good president if he changed his policies, metyhods, and viewpoint- ie, if he becomes a Republican ( and yes, a Goldwater Republican would do.)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:40 AM

I think the word you want is "popular".

The idea that he is a lightweight has no grounds, imho; he has demonstrated ttoughness and flexibility, breadth of visiona nd historical perspective. You will see a change of gears after the election, when he is free to get down towork without having to tiptoe through the rednecks.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 11:19 AM

"...McCain is of a different kind of timber from the neck up--knotty oak, I think."


                      And Obama is wormwood!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 11:33 AM

Ah, Rig, let the scales fall from your eyes, my friend. You gotta be able to see quality when it is in front of you, or you will live a fearful live hemmed in by imaginary demons.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 11:42 AM

Where does this idea that Obama is over young to be president come from? He's already older than Clinton or Kennedy when they became president. And he's some years older than Teddy Roosevelt.

As for experience, his CV is more extensive than Lincoln's was, for one.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 12:14 PM

McGrath, you weren't paying attention. McCain is supposed to be Teddy Roodevelt.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 12:15 PM

"...or you will live a fearful live hemmed in by imaginary demons."


                      Yes, there are demons out there, all right.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 12:56 PM

No, poplar is right...


Many poplars are grown as ornamental trees, with numerous cultivars selected. They have the advantage of growing very big very fast. Trees with fastigiate (erect, columnar) branching are particularly popular, and very widely grown across Europe and southwest Asia. However, like willows, poplars have very vigorous and invasive root systems stretching up to 40 m from the trees; planting close to houses or ceramic water pipes may result in damaged foundations and cracked walls and pipes due to their search for moisture.

Fast-growing hybrid poplars are grown on plantations in many areas for pulpwood and used for the manufacture of paper.[8] The wood is generally white, often with a slightly yellowish cast. It is also sold as inexpensive hardwood timber, used for pallets and cheap plywood; more specialised uses include matches and the boxes in which camembert cheese is sold. Poplar wood is widely used in the snowboard industry for the snowboard "core", because it has exceptional flexibility.

Poplar was the most common wood used in Italy for panel paintings; the Mona Lisa and indeed most famous early renaissance Italian paintings are on poplar.

Due to its tannic acid content, the bark has been used in Europe for tanning leather.[3]

There has been some interest in using poplar as an energy crop for biofuel, particularly in light of its high energy in - energy out ratio, large carbon mitigation potential and fast growth.

Poplar wood also, particularly when seasoned, makes a good hearth for a bow drill. It was picked as the material for the bones of "Buster", the crash test dummy used in the TV show MythBusters, after some experiments revealed that it fractures under approximately the same loads as human bone. Poplar is sometimes used in the bodies of electric guitars and drums.

A folk tradition noted among Michigan miners in the early 20th century asserted that poplar wood was used to make the cross upon which Jesus Christ was crucified.[9]

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 01:28 PM

I am well aware of the uses of poplar, Bruce, but the underlying fact remains that it is a mischaracterization of Senator Obama, not based on specifics or factual observations as far as I can tell.

OF course we all have _some_ snarky opinions here and there.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 01:49 PM

Read the details, Amos:



advantage of growing very big very fast.

poplars have very vigorous and invasive root systems

with fastigiate (erect, columnar) branching are particularly popular,

it has exceptional flexibility.

in light of its high energy in - energy out ratio, large carbon mitigation potential and fast growth.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 02:07 PM

But do they put out hot air like Obama?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Mark Ross
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 02:10 PM

In my latest quest for financial stability I am now offering at discount rates the new Mattel product, The CARIBOU BARBIE!

Comes with an M-16, a snowmobile, and a sexy pair of librarian glasses.


Mark Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 02:17 PM

No moose hunter worth his/her salt would use an M-16.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 02:32 PM

Not sure you can even kill a moose with a .223 round

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 02:57 PM

Pillar of salt Much better value than a moose hunter.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:01 PM

I wonder what the story is behind the one that looks like a mushroom?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: TIA
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 11:35 PM

So, a pilrimage by a group belonging to Palin's denomination claims to have killed Mother Teresa with their prayers, and Palin's supporters shout "kill him" when she mentions Obama. All with no repudiation.

Pro-life? Horsepucky.

I would love to see things from our priest's viewpoint, but I just can't shove my head that far up my ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 03:48 AM

Yes Carol, but usually we say, "this fridge is in a right mess, so we shift a few jars about, wipe the salad box, and shut the door quick before any of the nasties who live in the back can get out!

What we should be thinkin' is, "this old fridge is about fucked. The light doesn't work any more, the temperature control is erratic and the vacuum pump is ready for the broth pot.

So we shut the door quick to keep the nasties in, take it to the junk yard and tip it in the crusher....simple.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 03:51 AM

A revolution is a revolution..... Anything to get a nice new fridge!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 04:00 AM

Maybe we have different visions of what's possible, then. That's ok. I think both visions have validity and are valuable for helping to move the world in the direction it needs to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 07:53 AM

"I would love to see things from our priest's viewpoint, but I just can't shove my head that far up my ass."

                   TIA - Are you saying that your priest is in agreement with the group belonging to Palin's denomination?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:39 AM

Palin in contradicting McCain whose base doesn't like him. She is the favored one and when
she would become president, she would carry on the Bush/Cheney/Rove agenda. That's
the plan on which the Republicans are banking. Sarah Barracuda is Bush in a dress.

You think McCain has temper management problems? Just think of what Sarah would do.

World War III (wink wink)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 01:56 PM

Yes. Perfect agreement on being "pro-life" by assertion.
But turning a blind eye to the Mother Teresa claims.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 03:08 PM

Palin is living in a glass house, throwing faux stones.
You would think she would realize her own recent connections to the anti-American Alaska Independence Party (whom she, as governor, told to keep up the good work) would eventually come to the awareness of the rest of the country.
=======

"My government is my worst enemy. I'm going to fight them with any means at hand."
The quote is from Joe Vogler, the raging anti-American who founded the Alaska Independence Party. Inconveniently for Palin, that's the very same secessionist party that her husband, Todd, belonged to for seven years and that she sent a shout-out to as Alaska governor earlier this year. ("Keep up the good work," Palin told AIP members. "And God bless you.")

snip

Vogler wasn't just a blowhard either. He put his secessionist ideas into action, working to build AIP membership to 20,000 — an impressive figure by Alaska standards — and to elect party member Walter Hickel as governor in 1990.

Vogler's greatest moment of glory was to be his 1993 appearance before the United Nations to denounce United States "tyranny" before the entire world and to demand Alaska's freedom. The Alaska secessionist had persuaded the government of Iran to sponsor his anti-American harangue.

That's right … Iran. The Islamic dictatorship. The taker of American hostages. The rogue nation that McCain and Palin have excoriated Obama for suggesting we diplomatically engage. That Iran."

Olberman, msnbc

=======

Also an article on this subject from Robert F. Kennedy Jr. today, Alaskan Independance Party, the last refuge of a scoudrel

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 03:11 PM

This quote is important from the article by Kennedy:

"Palin's husband Todd remained an AIP party member from 1995 to 2002. Sarah can be described in McCarthy-era palaver as a "fellow traveler." While retaining her Republican registration, she attended the AIP's 1994 convention where the party called for a draft constitution to secede from the United States and create an independent nation of Alaska. The McCain Campaign has reluctantly acknowledged that she also attended AIP's 2000 Convention. She apparently found the experience so inspiring that she agreed to give a keynote address at the AIP's 2006 convention and she recorded a video greeting for this year's 2008 convention. In other words, this is not something that happened when she was eight!"

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 03:12 PM

Washington Post article about an ABC interview of Joe Biden with Diane Sawyer.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 06:52 PM

California would probably get out of their financial abyss if they did seceede.

Isn't the Country First slogan getting more Ironic everyday?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 08:04 PM

McCain, you have some 'splainin to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 09:31 PM

More on Palin and the anti-American AIP today in Salon.
Investigative report from Alaska, "Extremists Mark Chryson and Steve Stoll helped launch Palin's political career in Alaska, and in return had influence over policy. "Her door was open," says Chryson — and still is."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/10/palin_chryson/

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:25 PM

At least she has more executive experience than Barack Obama, and wasn't associated with an organization as subversive as ACORN.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 11:10 PM

more executive experience perched on top of an iffy BA out of U. Idaho in journalism and a little time on television. Compare that to Harvard Law school, editing the Law Review, and all of the rest that came before their respective careers and she loses, hands down.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 12:03 AM

Of course, an affirmative action candidate with a degree from Harvard means...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 12:09 AM

Don't kid yourself, and you're not fooling anyone else either. But fortunately, Obama isn't running against that twit Palin, now, is he?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 12:12 AM

George W Bush had eight years of executive experience at the state level before he was elected president, and he's one of the worst presidents we've ever had.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 08:06 AM

Yes, well, I find that very hard to argue with. And, of course, he had undergraduate and advanced degrees from Ivy League Universities, so that doesn't mean much either.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:51 AM

Mightn't Alaskan insdependence be quite a good idea? For the USA anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:52 AM

Could we sell it back to Russia?

maybe it will save our economy

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:57 AM

Texas has a "weak governor" system. Perfect for Bush. And a lot of Texans tried to warn everyone else what a jerk he was, but few were listening.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 10:09 AM

Riginslinger-

I was struck by your comment above that Palin "...wasn't associated with an organization as subversive as ACORN." Clearly you did not follow up the link to the Salon. com report of Palin's active support for the Alaska Independence Party (AIP):

click here for report

Or maybe you weren't impressed with AIP's denouncement of the United States; their statements certainly rival anything that Rev. Wright has come up with. Palin evidently was not a card-carrying member of this party but she made presentations at their general meetings and worked for more than 5 years with its leadership; when elected Mayor of Wasilla Palin tried to appoint Steve Stoll, the leader of the AIP and a member of the John Birch Society, to take her former Town Council seat; the effort failed. When elected Governor, Palin continued to work with AIP leaders.

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "subversive."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 11:05 AM

Whatever Palin might have done, she didn't get down on her knees and wallow around in front of a maniac for 20 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 11:13 AM

How do you know that, Rig?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 11:16 AM

rig-
Have you seen any info on Palin's church--complete with witchcraft, speaking in tongues and laying on of hands?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 12:09 PM

Investigation in Alaska is now revealing the details of Mr. Palin's subpoena response, including this:

Page 1, Line 17: "(Wooten) illegally shot a cow moose without a permit"

    Palin of course leaves out the fact that his entire family knew the moose was shot illegally in 2003 but that didn't stop him and his family from butchering and eating the meat, only to file the complaint two years later when Wooten was divorcing Sarah's sister.

Page 2, Line 16: "In 2005 and 2006, State Trooper Mike Wooten was the subject of a court ordered domestic violence protective order."

Palin of course leaves out the fact that the order was granted while Wooten was out of state taking his step son to Portland. While he was away, Sarah Palin and her sister went before a judge in Palmer and convinced the judge to grant the order without any evidence of domestic violence. Upon his return, Anchorage Judge John Suddock questioned Palin's sister and immediately revoked the order, calling it an egregious abuse of the legal system.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 12:15 PM

Maybe somebody got indigestion, the delayed variety.

XG

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 12:33 PM

In Montana, our universities educate wildlife biologists who often go on to work in departments of fish and game wildlife management. Scientists are important in the development of ecological and biological management in our region. The old days of killing off all predators for elk, deer and moose are gone, as the lack of predators proved to be actually a negative impact on game animals.

In Alaska, where "science" now seems to be a dirty word, Governor Palin took over the scene with a change in staff for wildlife management. If you have a Masters or PhD in wildlife biology, don't look to Alaska for a job.

Here is what she did - she appointed a new board of game that had not one qualified wildlife scientist on it. The members are now appointees including her middle school basketball coach Lewis Bradley. His qualifications? In his resume he notes that hunting, fishing and carving antlers are special interests of his. He also points out that he is working on a sheep hunting guide book, though the writing progress has stalled since he started remodeling his house.

Pay scale for Board of Game members, $31/hr. They meet 20-25 times a year and get travel and per diem.

The Alaska Board of Game makes most wildlife decisions in Alaska. The board is comprised entirely of trophy hunters no wildlife biologist or scientist is a member.

This year the Alaska Dept. of Fish and Game will exterminate 1,400 bears out of a population of 2,000 in an area west of Anchorage. The Alaskan Board of Game even approved the hunting of black bear mothers and cubs with the goal of killing 60 percent of the black bear population.

Although biologists have known since the 60's that predators actually keep prey populations healthy, Alaskan wolves and bears are being exterminated to boost dwindling moose populations.

(Gotta love that moose meat.)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 01:15 PM

Dwindling because of predators on two legs with SUVs or planes. And lipstick in some cases.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 02:42 PM

The Mindless Shrew of the North rides again. Ratatatatatat!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:29 PM

In his endorsement of Obama, William F Buckley's son has a thing or two to say about Palin...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-10-10/the-conservative-case-for-obama

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:31 PM

Panel's Report Finds Palin Abused Power in Firing

A legislative committee investigating Gov. Sarah Palin found
she unlawfully abused her authority in firing Alaska's public
safety commissioner, The Associated Press reported.

Read More:
http://www.nytimes.com/?emc=na

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:40 PM

Here is a link to the report regarding her ethics violation:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/10/troopergate-report-full-t_n_133806.html

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 10:11 PM

Carol-

Thanks for the link to William F Buckley, Jr.'s, endorsement of Obama.

It makes interesting reading.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Barry Finn
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:45 AM

It's not just the moose that she's courting, she'd love to see the bear & wolf gone from the drilling fields so that big oil has no 4 legged opponents that the wildlifers could use as a deterrent to the drill. A lot like Pol Pot & the killing fields of southern Asia, kill off all the opposition before they can fight back.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: curmudgeon
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:33 PM

Here's
a new report , especially for Riggy, on how Palin has been spending taxpayers' money.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 02:49 PM

"Two weeks before being tapped for the GOP ticket, Palin was in attendance at her current congregation, Wasilla Bible Church, when a leader of Jews for Jesus described terrorist attacks against Israel as "judgment" against those who have not accepted Christianity.
While a spokesman for Palin has said that Palin rejects this view, the McCain-Palin campaign has declined to say whether she shares her pastor's general support for Jews for Jesus, a group that tells people they can embrace Jesus and still remain true to Judaism.
Attention is also on Palin's involvement in a 2005 service at the Wasilla Assembly of God church. The video of the service shows a Kenyan pastor, Thomas Muthee, blessing Palin, and urging Jesus to protect her from "the spirit of witchcraft."
Critics are increasingly focusing on the speech that the clergyman gave before he brought Palin to the stage.
Muthee called for "God's kingdom" to "infiltrate" seven aspects of society, including economics.
"It is high time that we have top Christian businessmen, businesswomen, bankers, you know, who are men and women of integrity, running the economics of our nations," he said. "That's part and parcel of transformation. If you look at the Israelites, you know, that's how they won. And that's how they are, even today.""...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 03:31 PM

They better get Reverend Wright up there to straighten it all out.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 03:38 PM

Amos, not that I am sponsoring the general views of people in Sarah Palin's church... I'm not...

But, consider this: Why can a person not "embrace Jesus and still remain true to Judaism"?

Jesus was a Jew. He was a member of the Jewish community in his own time, and he brought forth new and radical ideas which were intended to reform the Jewish church and society of the time. He was not trying to create a new religion, he was trying to reform the existing Jewish religion.

He failed because deeply conservative elements in that religion (fundamentalists of the time) were deely fearful of what he was trying to do and they had him tried and executed.

It is entirely possible to view Jesus' teachings AS the true heart of the Jewish faith if you see it that way, regardless of what the hell is the opinion of the presently ruling elders of the Jewish church.

Now, I personally know a lady who is Jewish, proud of it, and she has embraced Jesus, and she's just as liberal and modern in her outlooks as you are, Amos. She's no Christian fundamentalist. But she is a Jew and she does believe in Jesus as her personal saviour. Therefore, she is, technically, a "Jew for Jesus". I highly doubt that she shares Sarah Palin's worldview. My guess is that she would vote enthusiastically for Obama.

What are you going to do about it? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 03:58 PM

The theism implicit in Jesus' teaching, which was molded and pressed like SPAM into the current model of Christian thought by the Apostles, their lagatees and descendants, is a distinct and clear-cut step away from Judaism, LH.

None of which has any bearing on the key issue, which is Sarah's religious aberrations have no business being entered into the business of the commons through governors or any other agents of the State.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 03:59 PM

At the end of the day, you'd think they'd have more important things to worry about.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 04:16 PM

Seems to me, Amos, that Jesus' theism was pretty much conventional for his time...he believe in the same God as the others. It was his ideas about proper human moral conduct that were quite unusual:

forgiveness
turning the other cheek
nonviolence
treating everyone the same...even if they weren't Jews
driving moneylenders out of the temple

It was those kind of radical ideas that set him apart from the Jewish authorities of his time, not his notions of theism. They were afraid he would upset the applecart, as it were.

He spoke on a level they were not prepared to deal with, and they chose to take some of his symbolic statements in a literal fashion...as fundamentalists always seem to do. I guess that subtlety escapes them. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 04:59 PM

Jews for Jesus has a long history of fraud and deceit in recruitment. They often target people in elderly care facilities. Young Jews for Jesus cult members are trained to go in and befriend elderly Jewish people to join the group (and of course can get donations to support the cult that way). There is plenty of info about this group on the web if you just do some googling.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 07:33 PM

That's a different issue from whether it's possible to be a Christian and a Jew at the same time. It pretty clearly is - for exampel there's a lady called Michele Guinness married to an Anglican vicar who's written a number of books about how this has worked out in her life. Nothing to do with any "Jews for Jesus" cult.

But this is rather drifting the thread a bit far

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 07:48 PM

I wasn't commenting on the "Jews for Jesus" cult, I was merely saying that a person can be a Jew and also believe in Jesus, and that it is not a conflict of interest if they do.

One can be a Jew and believe in just about anything, because to be a "Jew" is a cultural designation or an indication of whom one was born to, it is not necessarily a religious designation...or an indication of one's adhering to any particular belief system.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 09:16 PM

The world would probably be better off if they would just be themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: John O'L
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:34 AM

Like me. I'm a Buddho-Christo-Judo O'Lennainean of the Latter Day Nazoreans. That's me alright.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:13 AM

I'm just waitin' for the first atheist President.

In fact would it not be a good thing if the "religious", of any denomination, were barred from standing for that office....on the grounds of insanity!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 09:22 AM

Perfectly states, akenaton!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:39 AM

I would think that NO religious test should be imposed positive or negative, providing the candidate does not seek to inject his private religious views into his candidacy.
And there's the rub. If God sent Bush into Iraq, we sure don't want him in the White House.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:14 AM

We certainly don't. And we don't want Reverend Wright either.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:17 AM

I want a president and a government that is smarter than I (Hey, that isn't asking so much!), I want people with intellect and integrity and far-ranging views in office. With Sarah Palin at the helm (gaaaah! I can't believe I'm saying that), the USA will have more of what we have today- and worse. "Moral Certainty", instilled and supported by Church is worse than what we have today.


"First, let's concede the obvious: Every politician wants to be seen as Everyman or woman. That's why every primary season brings the curious sight of millionaires in plaid shirts wandering through county fairs eating fried things on sticks. It's why Hillary Rodham Clinton hit that bar and Barack Obama went bowling, badly.

"In that sense, Sarah Six Pack is nothing new. The "g" droppin', moose shootin', eye-winkin' hockey mom has plenty of antecedents. But there's a difference. Those antecedents were smart, wonkish people pretending to be one of us. Palin "is" one of us.

"And by "us," I don't mean you, necessarily, or me. I mean the lowest common denominator us, the us of myth and narrative, the us of simple mind, the reactionary, ill-informed, impatient with complexity, utterly shallow us.

"You think that's mean? Go back and look at the Katie Couric interviews again. Or the Charlie Gibson interview. I don't know about you, but I want a vice president who can identify Supreme Court rulings she disagrees with. Or define the Bush Doctrine. Or name a newspaper. Or — heck, I'm not picky — construct an intelligible English language sentence."

Leonard Pitts Column on Palin

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:20 AM

Yes, Katie Couric was pretty slimy in her interview with Palin, but she had to get her career back on track.

                Pitts is a lot like Obama. If he wasn't black nobody would have any idea who he is...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:28 AM

Ye gods, Rig, Listen to yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:29 AM

Hey! Somebody has to keep this discussion fair and balanced:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:58 AM

Most of the time we don't even get what we vote for.
I suppose we in the UK have already experienced Mr Obama in the shape of Mr Blair, who was elected on a platform of "change" and professed to be a "liberal".

For our votes we were handed War, an ever increasing differential between rich and poor, and an economy in meltdown(and don't tell me Blair and Brown didn't know what was happening to the ecomomy)

If Blair had not been elected we wouild not have lost one young man or woman in Iraq, as the opposition Labour Party would have voted against the war almost to a man.

The reason we are in Iraq was Blairs love of political expediency
and in that Blair and Obama seem joined at the hip.
Blair and Obama also seem similar in their religious beliefs so remember don't wish too much for "change" as it may bnot be the sort of change you have in mind...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 12:41 PM

"I suppose we in the UK have already experienced Mr Obama in the shape of Mr Blair, who was elected on a platform of "change" and professed to be a "liberal".

"For our votes we were handed War, an ever increasing differential between rich and poor, and an economy in meltdown (and don't tell me Blair and Brown didn't know what was happening to the ecomomy)" Ake

Sounds MUCH more like Bush, Ake, than Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 12:53 PM

Ake, the reason you went into Iraq was because Iraq is sitting on one hell of a lot of oil, and Saddam Hussein had made the decision to sell that oil for Euros, not dollars, and the USA was willing to invade Iraq over that little matter, and Britain and the USA have a common policy in regards to working as partners to control as much of the world's oil as they possibly can, specially in the Middle East.

That is why you invaded Iraq.

As you say, pure expediency...but not political expediency. Politically, it was disastrous for both Blair and Bush. No, it was economic and financial expediency that lay behind their actions.

Ironically, though, their war has cost so much money that it appears to have defeated its own purpose, at least in a financial sense...although they do have the desired control of the Iraqi oil now.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 01:30 PM

mercy! Entire programs and websites, many of them relatively well-known conservatives, devoted to pointing out Palin's shortcomings, skirting of the law, dissembling in the face of challenge, and basic lack of relevant exerience...and STILL some folks..(I'm lookin' at YOU Rig..) repeating the mantra:

"But by God, she is a **Republican**, and I'll look the other way, invent amazing disclaimers and totally ignore facts & logic in hopes of keeping anyone with the word 'Republican' beside their name holding on to power!"

When Nixon was shown to be a crook, there STILL 20-30% 'standing by him' and refusing to admit anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:17 PM

Now Iraq is making deals to sell their oil to China.
Nice plan, Dick Cheney.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:36 PM

Rig:

If I did not believe you were just trolling with your warped sense of humor, I would really be ashamed of you.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:57 PM

Sarah Palin: The face of American fascism

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:07 PM

Which end is that?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:24 PM

Katie Couric was pretty slimy in her interview with Palin,

You mean she shouldn't have treated her with kid gloves the way she did?

...............

The funny thing is the way sometimes a person can start off saying both sides are pretty bad, but that one is marginally better, so they'll go with that. And before you know it, they're saying their chosen side is great and the other is unspeakably awful.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:28 PM

Executive Experience

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:54 PM

"The funny thing is the way sometimes a person can start off saying both sides are pretty bad, but that one is marginally better, so they'll go with that. And before you know it, they're saying their chosen side is great and the other is unspeakably awful."


                  Yes, that is a problem. If you think one side might be just marginally better than the other, or even if the other party thinks the one side is wonderful and you do not, once you voice an opinion, you are attacked. If you try to defend yourself, you are attacked again, and then you feel like you have to say something really damaging to the side the other person is defending.
                  The only sure fire way to avoid this is to keep your mouth shut in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:24 PM

I think you're wrong on this one Hawk, as far as the UK was concerned this was "Blairs War"...nothing to do with oil on this side of the pond. Glory and political capital was the prize for Mr Blair, and to that end he single handedly convinced a craven Labour party to go with the American adventure.

There are distinct similarities between the euphoria surrounding Blair before and during his first and second term and the cheerleading of folks like Alice, Amos,and many others here who seem to have been completely taken in by the two Party "contest"

Most in the UK saw Blair as a charismatic leader for the left, who would bring a fairer "changed" society, only the old Labour dinosaurs,the "commies" and anarchists saw through him and witnessed such sleaze and hypocricy that I am sure Labour will never rule the UK again.

We must stop hailing all these false dawns...and Obama is indeed another false dawn...and start to realise that there will be no magic fix for either of our countries.   Real change will involve pain and hardship, words that Obama, McCain or Brown dare not utter, they will just carry on with the show, re-arrange the scenery ,alter the dialogue, but underneath it will be the same old show ....and we as ever, the paying customers....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:28 PM

You are wrong, Ake. I'm not "taken in" by anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:31 PM

Just because an American voter doesn't want the Republicans to control the Presidency after this election does not mean they think there is some magic the Democrats have. You are projecting your own misconceptions about other people whom you don't really know (like projecting your misconceptions onto me).

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:33 PM

Well how do you expect to get change from a mouthpiece of corporate America.
Put your energy into supporting someone who has the will to provide real change

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:36 PM

In the year 2008 I am being realistic.
The only two choices of an elected president we have are between the Democratic and the Republican candidates.
All I've done in my life to promote alternative energy, unions and the rest have been working for change.
You don't know me, so stop judging me.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:50 PM

The people round where I live and I suspect, round where you live, have been being "realistic" for a century. That century has ultimately given us a bagfull of wars and a ten year winter stretching ahead of us..if we're lucky

Time for some unreality I think...believe in the unbelievable!


I know what you write....and I judge what I see....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 07:12 PM

Ake:

I am not expecting magic fixes or false dawns. I am expecting Barack Obama to do a far better job of wrestling with our national conundrum than any of his opponents could have done. No-one is promising rose gardens. He simply offers a saner voice and a slightly more honest one.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 07:30 PM

Friday October 3 2008
Guardian.co.UK
Flirting her way to victory

Sarah Palin's farcical debate
performance lowered the standards for both female candidates and US
political discourse. At least three times last night, Sarah Palin,
the adorable, preposterous vice-presidential candidate, winked at
the audience. Had a male candidate with a similar reputation for
attractive vapidity made such a brazen attempt to flirt his way into
the good graces of the voting public, it would have universally
noted, discussed and mocked. Palin, however, has single-handedly so
lowered the standards both for female candidates and American
political discourse that, with her newfound ability to speak in
more-or-less full sentences, she is now deemed to have performed
acceptably last night. By any normal standard, including the ones
applied to male presidential candidates of either party, she did
not. Early on, she made the astonishing announcement that she had no
intentions of actually answering the queries put to her. 'I may not
answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear,
but I'm going to talk straight to the American people and let them
know my track record also, she said.

And so she preceded, with an almost surreal disregard for the
subjects she was supposed to be discussing, to unleash fusillades of
scripted attack lines, platitudes, lies, gibberish and grating
references to her own pseudo-folksy authenticity. It was an
appalling display. The only reason it was not widely described as
such is that too many American pundits don't even try to judge the
truth, wisdom or reasonableness of the political rhetoric they are
paid to pronounce upon. Instead, they imagine themselves as
interpreters of a mythical mass of 'average Americans' whom they
both venerate and despise. In pronouncing upon a debate, they don't
try and determine whether a candidate's responses correspond to
existing reality, or whether he or she is capable of talking about
subjects such as the deregulation of the financial markets or the
devolution of the war in Afghanistan .

The criteria are far more
vaporous. In this case, it was whether Palin could avoid utterly
humiliating herself for 90 minutes, and whether urbane commentators
would believe that she had connected to a public that they see as
ignorant and sentimental. For the Alaska governor, mission
accomplished. There is indeed something mesmerising about Palin, with
her manic beaming and fulsome confidence in her own charm. The force
of her personality managed to slightly obscure the insulting
emptiness of her answers last night. It's worth reading the
transcript of the encounter, where it becomes clearer how bizarre
much of what she said was. Here, for example, is how she responded
to Biden's comments about how the middle class has been
short-changed during the Bush administration, and how McCain will
continue Bush's policies:

'Say it ain't so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again.
You preferenced [sic] your whole comment with the Bush
administration. Now doggone it, let's look ahead and tell Americans
what we have to plan to do for them in the future. You mentioned
education, and I'm glad you did. I know education you are
passionate about with your wife being a teacher for 30 years, and
god bless her. Her reward is in heaven, right? ... My brother, who I
think is the best schoolteacher in the year, and here's a shout-out
to all those third graders at Gladys Wood Elementary School , you
get extra credit for watching the debate.'

Evidently, Palin's pre-debate handlers judged her incapable of
speaking on a fairly wide range of subjects, and so instructed to
her to simply disregard questions that did not invite memorised
talking points or cutesy filibustering. They probably told her to
play up her spunky average-ness, which she did to the point of
shtick - and dishonesty. Asked what her Achilles heel is -- a
question she either didn't understand or chose to ignore -- she
started in on how McCain chose her because of her 'connection to the
heartland of America . Being a mom, one very concerned about a son
in the war, about a special needs child, about kids heading off to
college, how are we going to pay those tuition bills?' None of
Palin's children, it should be noted, is heading off to college. Her
son is on the way to Iraq, and her pregnant 17-year-old daughter is
engaged to be married to a high-school dropout and self-described
'fuckin' redneck'. Palin is a woman who can't even tell the truth about the most quotidian and public details of her own life, never
mind about matters of major public import. In her only
vice-presidential debate, she was shallow, mendacious and phoney.

What kind of maverick, after all, keeps harping on what a maverick
she is? That her performance was considered anything but a farce
doesn't show how high Palin has risen, but how low we all have sunk.

Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited 2008

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 08:34 PM

groan... The Guardian is right.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 09:00 PM

What ever she did, or did not do, the only hope now is to support her and McCain. Look at the alternative.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 09:33 PM

The alternative is a far better choice. Intelligence, balance, and an understanding of diplomacy. Almost every major position McCain has that is gaining any traction is lifted from Obama's policy book.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 09:50 PM

Yep. Rig is right- let's put Palin in the top spot so this country can become a Christian god-fearing nation with all the values you could possibly wish for - and some you wouldn't wish for in a hundred years.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:15 PM

Putting Obama there would put you right smack into the same place--remember Reverend Wright? The difference is, nobody has to die first.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:17 PM

Today, speaking in Ohio, Palin continued her divisive us-versus-them by asking the crowd who the "bad guys" are.
Palin, good guys and bad guys, CNN news

"For one thing, we know who the bad guys are, OK?"
That statement elicited scattered shouts of "Obama!" throughout the crowd. "

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: TIA
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:28 PM

We all want an elite pilot flying our plane, and an elite brain surgeon removing our tumor, and elite fighting men and women protecting the homeland.....

But we don't want an elite leading the coutnry. We want a g-dropping, uneducated, uncurious, unread, flirty, juss-folks.

WTF America?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:00 PM

TIA - I don't think that analogy works. The voter is stuck with the decision of - "Who is loyal to the people of the country?" And for a lot of us, it sure ain't the elite.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:17 PM

I think that the Troopergate report points out her concept of ethical leadership. Just imagine what she could so if she could have the IRS and FBI as resources for intimidating people she doesn't like.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 01:25 AM

Elite is as Elite does, Rig, to coin a phrase. To me, the people who matter in this world are all elite in some fashion. I think that's true for all of us- elite people, by their very nature, are people who are special to us, not necessarily people who were born with the proverbial silver spoon - although I have no doubt but that some of them are elite.

IMO, of course. I realize that my view is not the ruling one.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:48 AM

Well, I wouldn't want McCain flying the plane anyway, in the light of his flyiong record... And Palin would be too busy shooting out the window at anything on four legs.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 09:50 AM

Rig:

Is your continuous effort to conflate Obama with Wright--and an inaccurate and distorted picture of Wright, at that--the product of disingenuousness, hypnotic mind control by demagogues, a shrinking of mental capacity, or just small-mindedness and bitter-heartedness on your part? Because it's really inaccurate and --not to put too fine a point on it--stupid.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:12 AM

Amos - It's no effort of mine. He sat in the pew for 20 years with no help from me.
               But my larger problem with it is, I had hoped for better from the Democratic Party. If all we're going to get from both parties is more blathering idiots, it would be better to back the Republican because that way I think the public will see the light sooner.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:20 AM

It is an effort of yours, my friend. You are responsible for taking up a partial set of facts and condensing them into a biased and inaccurate fusillade of one-liners. Pontius PIlate does a better job of washing his hands than you can here--ya gotta answer up for your own choices and reasons.

For example, no-one in their right mind would accuse Barack Obama of being a blithering idiot. He doesn't do blithering, unlike your friend W and MS Palin and to some degree McCain. And he is anything but an idiot.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:42 AM

That's blathering!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:51 AM

Mebbe so. And your mindless parrot-headed recitations are blithering.

All in a days kafluffle.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:58 AM

IN THE scheme of things -- that is to say, in the larger context of a financial meltdown -- the special counsel's report concluding that Sarah Palin engaged in an unethical abuse of power in trying to have her former brother-in-law fired as an Alaska state trooper is a relatively minor event. But the report nonetheless offers a revealing and relevant portrait of the governor. It shows her and her husband pursuing a personal vendetta against the trooper, Mike Wooten, despite repeated warnings that they were impermissibly intruding into internal -- and already concluded -- disciplinary issues. Likewise, Ms. Palin's decision to repudiate her earlier pledge to cooperate fully with the inquiry does not offer assurance about how she would conduct herself as vice president. The McCain-Palin campaign's response to the inquiry has been internally contradictory -- simultaneously assailing the investigation as a partisan witch hunt and mischaracterizing as vindication the report's finding that Ms. Palin was within her rights as governor to remove the commissioner who had refused to act against her former brother-in-law.

The amount of attention that the newly elected governor, her husband and her subordinates -- her personnel director, attorney general and chief of staff, among others -- devoted to getting Mr. Wooten fired was extraordinary. Within a few weeks of Ms. Palin's inauguration, her newly installed public safety commissioner, Walter Monegan, was summoned to a meeting with the governor's husband, Todd Palin, at which the "First Gentleman" pressed Mr. Monegan to reexamine the already concluded disciplinary case against Mr. Wooten. The governor herself called Mr. Monegan, e-mailed him and met with him in person to discuss her unhappiness with Mr. Wooten's continuation on the force. Equally extraordinary was the Palins' persistence in the face of warnings that their intervention could run afoul of personnel rules and risked creating precisely the kind of public uproar that ensued.

Ms. Palin's refusal to cooperate with investigator Stephen Branchflower reflects poorly on her. So, too, does Ms. Palin's mischaracterization of the report as finding that there was "no unlawful or unethical activity on my part" and "no abuse of authority at all in trying to get Officer Wooten fired." In fact, Mr. Branchflower concluded that Ms. Palin "knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates in order to advance a personal agenda, to wit: to get Trooper Michael Wooten fired." It's unfortunate that Ms. Palin does not understand -- or chooses not to acknowledge -- the seriousness of the mess she helped create.

(WaPo)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:14 AM

Of course, she would not have refused to cooperate if she hadn't been running for VP. She was simply putting country before self in this case. It was important to prevent Obama and his cronies from taking over the US government.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:25 AM

Cronies? What a slanted expression. "Taking over"???? How about "being elected to"? Do you not hear the bias in your own choice of angry terms?

It is far more important to keep Ms Palin off the seat of power than ity is to prevent Obama from ascending by popular election. She has already demonstrated a certain looseness with regard to the constraints of power.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:30 AM

Cronies? What a slanted expression.



I seem to recall "cronies" being used by Amos, in description of those whom he opposes....

More double standard, I guess.


Can we just have the ballots printed up with the "correct" candidate already chgecked off, to avoid the bother of having anyone actually vote?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:35 AM

First rate idea, there, Bruce!! I am sure Rig will concur.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:37 AM

I had thought the Democrats were already printing them...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 12:27 PM

"She was simply putting country before self in this case."

Now that really blithering...Or possibly blathering.

Assuming it's not heavy irony, but that wouldn't really seem consistent with Rig's ernthusiasm for the lady.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 01:11 PM

actually, what she was doing was abusing power, covering up and lying. Obviously good for the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 01:14 PM

I don't understand, Rig....when Wright's rhetoric got mean, Obama disowned him and left that church. Now, will you try to explain why McCain was soliciting help from John Hagee, whose views are more radical than Wright's?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:23 PM

Sarah Palin has insisted that a formal investigation into the "Troopergate" controversy in Alaska has exonerated her of "unlawful or unethical" activity. The Republican vice-presidential pick has told critics to read the report by an investigator appointed by the State Legislative Council to determine whether she had abused her power as Alaska governor to push for the firing of a state trooper formerly married to her sister. But the report's finding that Palin breached the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act is very clear.

The Facts
Within weeks of becoming governor of Alaska in November 2006, Sarah Palin began putting pressure on state officials to fire her former brother-in-law, Mike Wooten, who was embroiled in a bitter child custody dispute with Palin's sister Molly. She made her wishes clear in e-mails to her newly installed public safety commissioner, Walter Monegan. Monegan resisted the pressure from Palin and her husband to fire Trooper Wooten, and was dismissed in July 2008 on the grounds of poor performance and not being "a team player."

On August 1, the Republican-dominated Alaska legislature hired an independent investigator, Stephen Branchflower, to look into the matter. The Branchflower report, published on Friday and available in full here, concluded that Palin had the legal right to fire Monegan. However, it also concluded that Palin had "abused her power by violating Section 39.52.119(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act," which is worded as follows:


The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust.

The Branchflower report concludes that Palin "knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates in order to advance a personal agenda, to wit: to get Trooper Michael Wooten fired." It adds that she and her husband Todd attempted "to get Trooper Wooten fired for personal family related reasons." Subordinates were placed in the situation where they had to choose whether to "please a superior or run the risk of facing that superior's displeasure," a clear conflict of interest.

According to Branchflower, the Palins declined to cooperate fully with his investigation. The governor's lawyer, Thomas Van Flein, has depicted the Branchflower report as a partisan attempt to "smear the governor by innuendo." Van Flein argues that Branchflower's findings are flawed because Palin received "no monetary benefit" from her actions.

The Pinocchio Test
Whether or not the Branchflower report -- which was launched by a bipartisan committee -- was a partisan smear job is debatable. What is not debatable is that the report clearly states that she violated the State Ethics Act. Palin has reasonable grounds for arguing that the report cleared her of "legal wrongdoing," since she did have the authority to fire Monegan. But it is the reverse of the truth to claim that she was cleared of "any hint of any kind of unethical activity."

From WaPo's FactCheck section. Looks like her truth quotient is not as high as one might wish for a senior exec...


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:36 PM

Isn't it odd that those like Rig, who firmly oppose any sort of affirmative action, are so resolute to defend the Rebublican's first official hiring of the mentally handicapped.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:42 PM

All they would have to do to fix affirmative action, Richard, would be to make it economically based instead of race based. By continuing along the lines they are going now, the create more problems than they solve.

                   And I am certainly not one to defend Republicans. Ronald Reagan really was mentally handicapped, and that's basically how we got into the mess we're in today.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 05:36 PM

"All they would have to do to fix affirmative action, Richard, would be to make it economically based instead of race based"

Oddly enough, Tig, that's what Obama proposed.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 05:40 PM

""Isn't it odd that those like Rig, who firmly oppose any sort of affirmative action, are so resolute to defend the Rebublican's first official hiring of the mentally handicapped.""

I thought Geedub was the first!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:12 PM

"Oddly enough, Tig, that's what Obama proposed."


             Yeah, but he proposes something different every twenty minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 09:28 PM

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1849383,00.html?xid=feed-cnn-to

Palin's Blown Opportunity on Energy Independence
Sarah Palin promises to focus on energy independence if she becomes vice president, a mission she claims to be uniquely qualified for as governor of an oil and gas-producing state.
snip
At no time did Palin or her government cite the desire to preserve Alaskan gas for the lower 48 states. The Sempra terminal began operations just four months after Palin announced unconditional support for the Marathon and ConocoPhillips request and a month before DOE approved their plans to export gas to Asia. The development of the Mexico plant was well-known and much anticipated in energy circles.

According to Senator Ron Wyden, the Alaskan gas slated for Asia between 2009 and 2011 could meet the annual consumption of 1.4 million American families. The Oregon Democrat has accused Palin of a "major contradiction" between her support for gas exports and campaign emphasis on more drilling to slake US energy needs. "It's pretty outrageous to scare Americans about energy shortages while she has been approving export of billions of cubic feet of natural gas that could be providing energy to homes in Alaska and the lower 48 states," he said.
snip
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1849383,00.html?xid=feed-cnn-to

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 09:30 PM

"...every twenty minutes..."

So, Mr. Hypocrite, what is your evidence for this particular smear?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 09:31 PM

Still at it, Mr Snide?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 09:46 PM

"So, Mr. Hypocrite, what is your evidence for this particular smear?"


                  Ron - You need to invest in a stop-watch!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:19 PM

Rig:

Your bloviating generalization is unfounded. If you use the brains God gave you, you will find his principles have been straightforwardly consistent since he first stepped forward, and his programmatic suggestions have evolved based on new conditions, as an intelligent person's does. Your innuendos belong innurendo.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 09:31 AM

..the brains God gave you...

In this case, verdict not proven.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 09:37 AM

I was stipulating, I grant you.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 10:31 AM

"If you use the brains God gave you, you will find his principles have been straightforwardly consistent since he first stepped forward,..."


                      Nobody gave me nothin', but you're refeging to the pledge to take campaign matching funds, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:05 AM

Obama stated his position in a response to a question about his daughters' eligibility for affirmative action. He's never changed that position, as far as I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:16 AM

"nobody gave me nothin"

Rig, I'll give you somthing but then again I am not a nobody.
What would you like?
Or would you like somebody to give you nothing instead?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 12:49 PM

Rig:

The figure of speech was not meant literally, and has nothing to do with your adamantine opposition to theism, but more to do with your adamantine opposition to reason, logic, and ordinary wisdom about people.

Obama made a smart move when he changed his position about funding constraints. It was a successful change. More power to him.

When campaign finance reform occurs, if it ever does, the game will change.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 12:53 PM

If he would renege on that, he would renege on everything else he says. That's what makes him such a poor choice for president.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 12:53 PM

Meanwhile, there a report out on MSNBC that her newly constructed family home in Wasilla was the beneficiary of "in kind donations" from a major building supplier that was subsequently awarded a major contract for a $20 million sports arena. Maybe she learned something from Sen. Stevens. There's nothing like combining the personal goodies with the public good!

I don't think anyone has mentioned this Salon.com investigation yet.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:03 PM

Correction on above post; it was The Village Voice not Salon.com that did this story and the total cost of the sports arena was $12 million. Here a link to the story: click here for report

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:26 PM

It seems to me that an intelligent person may alter their view based on rational argument an to oppose that thesis is dinosaurism.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:28 PM

Oh, oops, sorry, Palin does not believe in dinosaurs, they are not listed in th bible as created by God which makes them either the creatures of the devil or fantasies.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:20 PM

They're not listed in the Bible at all, Richard, unless you count the phrase "there were giants in those days". (Some Christians do use that line to say, "See! The Bible does refer to the dinosaurs. They're really stretching when they do that.)

There are a great many things which are not spoken of in the Bible. This doesn't prove that they are not from God or anything else, and it doesn't prove anything about the Bible either...it just indicates that they are not spoken of. You want to know why? Because the men who wrote the various stuff that is in the Bible wrote about the things they either knew firsthand...or had heard about...and they certainly had not heard about dinosaurs...nor had anyone else until quite recently in history.

For instance, if you had spoken to someone in the Elizabethan age he would not have had a clue about dinosaurs, but he would have definitely heard of dragons and other mythical monsters of that sort.

People write about stuff they know about and are concerned about. The Bible was written by people of a certain historical era, and they wrote about the things they knew about and were concerned about.

This did not include dinosaurs.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:31 PM

America's definitely not in the Bible.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:57 PM

I think your proposition holds no water, Rig. It is a hypotheical dub-over generated by some FUD that you swallowed somewhere along the line, that you have never faced squarely.

ANd that hypothesis is just as grounded in firm fact as yours.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 09:44 PM

I think I've got it! I've figured out Rig's logic, and he just may be right. Start with the premise that all politicians are liars:

McCain is promising to continue to minimize taxes for the very rich, while continuing the war in Iraq until we achieve a clear victory; a sure fire recipe for driving us the last quarter mile into bankruptcy.

Obamma is promising to make the very rich pay at least a somewhat more credible share of taxes.

Since each of them will do the opposite of what he promises, we're screwed if we elect Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Bee
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 09:58 PM

You people need an anti-serious break.

Point and click. Open main door more than once. Explore. ;-D

http://palinaspresident.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:20 AM

Is that what political satire looks like in the USA?

I can just imagine what the other set of morons could accomplish with Mr Obama sitting in the Presidents chair.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:30 PM

Palin protest at state Capitol
200 attend Juneau rally day after legislative abuse of power report


By Alan Suderman | JUNEAU EMPIRE


Juneau residents staged a protest in front of the state Capitol on Saturday, urging the rest of the country to say "thanks but no thanks" to Gov. Sarah Palin's campaign to be vice president.

"We are the constituents who know what her actions have been, what her behavior has been ... and we cannot tolerate that for the vice president of the United States," said the event's organizer Jeannette Lacey.

About 200 people attended the hour-long event that featured a number of speakers who denounced Palin's record on abortion, Alaska Native issues, gay rights, the environment and other issues.

"She's kinda cute, but she's no friend of wildlife," said former Board of Game member Joel Bennett.

Near the end of the protest, the crowd sang a song called "Oh Lord won't you make me the vice president," model on Janis Joplin's "Mercedes Benz" tune.

"Forgive me my blind ambition and lies that I've tossed, I must get to DC no matter the cost," the crowd sang.

The protest came a day after a legislative investigation found Palin and her husband had abused her office's power by trying to get her former brother-in-law, a state trooper, fired. The investigation cleared Palin of illegally firing her former public safety commissioner, which Palin's spokesman said vindicated the governor.

On Saturday, some protesters held signs calling for Palin's impeachment.

"I think Alaskans and myself are most outraged with her stonewalling of the investigation, the sheer hypocrisy she's showing," said protester Bill Glude, while holding a sign that said: "The politics of Bush, the ethics of Nixon."

Several people in the crowd also brought homemade signs mocking Palin, including ones that read: "Liar liar lips on fire," "Free Levi," "Troopergate abuse = bad dog Palin" and "Sarah, Dick Cheney in drag - only worse, you betcha."

While national pundits have said Palin's pick as VP has fired up the right-wing base of the Republican Party, at home Palin's ascent to the national stage has mobilized an increasingly vocal anti-Palin crowd. Nevertheless, she has a contingent of vocal supporters among Juneau Republicans, many of whom got together to cheer on her performance at the vice presidential debate.

One state pollster has found that her approval rating in Alaska, though still high, dropped significantly after she was picked to be McCain's running mate.

"They've been ... touting her as the most popular governor," said University of Alaska Southeast professor Britteny Cioni, who had a sign that said "beware the trickster."

"Well, maybe, but not with everyone, and there are people in Alaska that oppose her and oppose her policies," she said.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:17 PM

Love her or hate her, Palin has done for media ratings what she did for the Republican base. Her debate with Joe Biden was the most-watched cable TV show for viewers ages 18 to 34, according to Jonathan Klein, president of CNN/U.S.

Obama has had a similar effect.

Jim VandeHei, executive editor of Politico, reported that traffic on politico.com is "exponentially higher" for Palin- and Obama-related stories.

Whereas the mainstream media are widely viewed as being pro-Obama, the same media are viewed as being hostile toward Palin. It is possible to be critical of Palin's lack of qualifications and experience without conveying contempt, but that hasn't always been the case. Early attacks on Palin's personal life and family values were perceived as unfair by those who already viewed the media skeptically.

To those folks, it is laughable when the media ask themselves, "Are we too elitist?" The answer seems to be implicit in the question.

As a self-described spy for Bubba who moves between home in the rural South and inside the Washington Beltway, I get more than an off-the-bus glimpse of the Palin phenomenon. Inside the Beltway, I've often felt like Jane Goodall, summoned from the hinterlands to explain the behaviors of the indigenous peoples.

We're not talking disconnect, but worlds apart.

Back home at my local grocery checkout counter, most of the other folks in line don't know or care how Tina Fey totally owns Sarah Palin.

They only know that their food costs too much and gas prices are making the trip to work prohibitive.

So how do the media win back the trust and respect of this segment of the population? Klein said media folk need to get out of their bubble and find out what people think. Indeed.

After George Bush won re-election in 2004, few were more baffled than the media. In the South and flyover country, almost no one was surprised.

How does that work?

To remedy the gap between the two Americans, pundits came up with some novel ideas. One Los Angeles Times writer suggested an exchange program through which families in red and blue America could swap children for a while.

The gap has only grown wider in the years since as an ever-expanding new media permits people to ratify their own worldview without straying far afield or tapping into a well of shared information.

The result is greater partisan division, greater allegiance to bullet-point thinking, less mutual understanding. As media summit panelist Peggy Noonan commented, "You lose something in the nation when you're cut into as many small pieces as America is. There's no boring old central reality that we can all argue over."

That is surely true. But there is a boring old central reality that characterizes the lives of the many Americans who are not perpetually plugged in. Their narrative may lack a dramatic arc, but their story is familiar and deserves respect. It's called paying the bills, getting the kids schooled and fed, and trying to keep a rapacious culture at bay.

These are the folks who have found light in Sarah Palin and who have been a major part of the Palin frenzy. They will vote the McCain ticket regardless of whether Palin can rattle off Supreme Court cases with which she disagrees. They recognize themselves in her. To them, her lack of polish and knowledge feels like an absence of slickness and glibness.

McCain's hunch that Palin would catapult him into the White House ultimately may prove wrong, but the Palin phenomenon and the mainstream media problem are of a piece. Therein lies the answer to the media's self-inquiry.

Contempt for one's audience is not a sure way to its heart. Palin's people feel that contempt and they have identified its source as the enemy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/14/AR2008101402068_2.html?hpid=opinionsbox1&sid=ST2008101500110&s_p

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:28 PM

PBS has an online poll posted asking if Sarah Palin is qualified. Apparently the right wing knew about this in advance and are flooding the voting with YES votes.

The poll will be reported on PBS and picked up bymainstream media. It can influence undecided voters in swing states.


Click on link and vote yourself.


Here's the link:

http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:36 PM

BB-

I thought I recognized the name Kathleen Parker--author of your Post column. Sure enough, she's the one who criticized Palin in the National Review, and for her work was flayed alive by their readers.

Subject: RE: BS: Have I missed a bit of news?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:46 AM

I am being told of a televised event in which McCain snatched the microphone from Palin thinking she was about to utter some gaffe.

What have I missed and what are the facts of it?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 07:59 AM

Very interesting, Richard. Shows how rumor has taken over this political season. Sounds like a a garbled version of the well-known incident when McCain took the microphone from a woman who had just labelled Obama an Arab. He said something along the lines of: "No ma'am, no. He is a good family man. We just disagree strongly about many policies".

At any rate, if, as likely, it's that incident. Palin was nowhere in sight--though she has encouraged McCain supporters to believe that--and much worse--about Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:05 AM

What happened in the incident I mentioned is that McCain stood shaking his head while the woman levelled her absurd accusation. Then he took the microphone from her and said: "No, ma'am.   He's a decent family man, a citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with."

If anybody has information confirming Richard's rumor, I'm sure we'd all like to hear it.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:27 AM

Yes, obviously he could have also assured everybody there is nothing wrong with being an Arab.

He didn't. But what he did is a step in the right direction.

Now, if he can only muzzle his slobbering pit bull (Palin) on a permanent basis.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:30 AM

"it's that incident, Palin...."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 10:14 AM

The woman who called Obama an Arab was interviewed after the town hall meeting.

She still believes Obama is an Arab and thinks McCain was just afraid to deny that. She said she got the information from the local Republican party and copied a letter about it at Kinko's.... made 400 copies and mailed them to random addresses in the phone book.

Interview of her here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-uptake/mccain-responds-to-arab-a_b_133820.html

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 11:35 AM

Palin will be the first candidate to not appear on Meet the Press since Dan Quayle.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:06 PM

Is it true that McCain is going to replace her on the ticket with Joe the Plumber?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:46 PM

John Cleese on Palin and Parrotry.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:05 PM

The Palin Plunge: Voters Sour On McCain VP Pick

"...The more voters learn about Sarah Palin, the more wary they become. Once the focus of post-convention Republican euphoria, the Alaska Governor is now viewed as a serious liability to the McCain campaign.

As it stands, Palin's polling numbers are daunting: with the unfolding economic crisis, her favorable to unfavorable ratings have switched from a positive 40-30, according to a September 12-16 New York Times survey, to a negative 32-41 in an October 10-13 survey.

Palin is, additionally, costing McCain newspaper endorsements. Editor and Publisher calculated that as of Oct 18, Barack Obama led McCain 58-16 in the competition for the backing of newspapers. Many of the endorsements cited Palin as a factor in their rejection of McCain. The Salt Lake Tribune, which supported George W. Bush in 2004, commented that "out of nowhere, and without proper vetting, the impetuous McCain picked Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate. She quickly proved grievously under-equipped to step into the presidency should McCain, at 72 and with a history of health problems, die in office. More than any single factor, McCain's bad judgment in choosing the inarticulate, insular and ethically challenged Palin disqualifies him for the presidency." The Kansas City Star, in turn, described Palin as "unqualified."..."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 07:43 PM

Sarah Palin's appearance on Saturday Night Live...

Just like the John McCain deke out & return re: Late Night w/ David Letterman:

Ploy...   PLOY...    PA-LOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Palin contacted SNL and requested to be on the show. It was no surprise. Everyone knew she would be. Consequently, the ratings that night jumped through the roof (as with Letterman). "Ooooooh! What's she gonna say and do to Tina Fey? Can't miss that!"

Along with McCain's hyped flowers&candy Ike-loves-Tina routine on The Late Show, the voting public gets to see the running mates joke around with comedians a few weeks before the election. "Well, that was almost human. Look, they know how to laugh at themselves. Think I'll vote for them after all."

The boring old Democrats could learn a thing or two from the media savvy Republicans... for all the right wing's ad nauseum complaints about the "Liberal controlled media".

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 09:52 PM

I just saw her interview where she makes the charge that the Obama campaign MOCKS GOD.



This might "energize the basest base    doncha think?






God will not be mocked

and we have the torture policy to enforce the anti god mockery act.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 11:29 PM

Did she have any comment on how God feels about through-their-teeth liars, bearers of false witness, coveters, manipulators, and hussies who pose as something they are not? How about people who lust after Mammon?



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: curmudgeon
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 06:30 PM

Palin's children travel at taxpayers'    expense?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 06:38 PM

Palin today talked about how the Vice President is the one in charge of the Senate and can "get in there" and create policy. hmmmmm
Wrong once again.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 07:38 PM

How does God feel about fearmongers? Palin told folks today Obama would cause an international crisis. These guys just can't stop projecting the sins of the Bush administration, can they?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: GUEST,Justin U
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 07:46 PM

Amos, she will become the most powerful sexual woman on the planet. I honestly think she is a godess.

Let justice be done. Let us see her in high office.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 07:51 PM

Ah--a Totem of All Wankers, Justin? Fortunately, Justice has slightly higher sights than "facilitating Onanism" to aim for. But hey--enjoy yourself. It's probably as close to genuine female compassion as you are going to get.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin soends up big :-D
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 03:45 AM

The goddess knows how to dress. Look, she's spent MORE THAN $150,000 of republican money on CLOTHES and MAKEUP!!!

Obviously she understand very much those ordinary Americans currently struggling to survive the meltdown of the American economy. Perhaps this is her VP management technique - when things get tough, go SHOPPING!!!!!!!!!!!

a good strategy, for those who have the money (and really, a very moral, ethical and religious sort of thing to do, isn't it?)

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 04:05 AM

Every dollar spent on Imelda's - Sarah's clothes is a dollar less spent on advertising.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 08:53 AM

Excerpt:WASHINGTON - Lipstick isn't the only difference between America's top hockey mom and a pit bull.

Sarah Palin also has a spectacular new wardrobe, and Republican campaign donors picked up the breathtaking tab.
The Republican National Committee spent $150,000 on clothing and accessories for the vice presidential candidate and her family since early September, according to a report by the Politico Web site.

At Saks Fifth Avenue stores in Manhattan and St. Louis, the RNC paid for $49,425.74 in Palin apparel, the report said, citing financial disclosure records.
There also was a $75,062.63 shopping spree at Neiman Marcus in Minneapolis, where the Palins stayed during the Republican National Convention last month; $9.447.71 at Macy's in Minneapolis; and $5,102.71 at Bloomingdale's in New York.
That much cash can buy a closet full of the pumps, hot red leather jackets and form-fitting business suits for the Alaska governor to wear on the stump

Another $4,716.49 on hair and makeup came from the GOP while wooing "Joe Six-Pack" to vote for John McCain, the records showed. And more than $5,000 went to a men's store and a baby clothing store."

---

Whoof!! I wonder what Lincoln spent, for example, gussying up for voters.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 09:30 AM

WSJ: 22 Oct 2008:

WSJ/NBC poll:

"The one candidate whose popularity has fallen is Gov. Palin. 38% see her positively, down from 44% two weeks ago; 47% see her negatively, up 10 points from the last poll. That's the highest negative rating of the four candidates. 55% of voters say Gov Palin is not qualified to be president if the need arises, up from 50% two weeks ago."

And on AOL:

Palin charged the state of Alaska for attendance of her children at functions to which they were not invited. Then she changed the expense accounts she submitted to reflect this charge.

This will not exactly help her "reformer image", to put it mildly.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 09:42 AM

ET TU aMOS

picking on this poor humble lady just because the GOP gave her some clothes to wear.

The clothes are suppose to go to charity when the campaign is over someday
in the fullness of time
at the moment of eventuality

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 09:43 AM

Source for the Palin expense account story: AP 22 Oct 2008

"Gov. Sarah Palin charged the state for her children to travel with her. including to events where they were not invited, and later amended expense accounts to specify that they were on official business".

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 09:44 AM

"with her, including..."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:06 PM

look at these pricey clothes

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:17 PM

If McCain loses the election, at least she'll have something to wear for moose hunting.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:18 PM

They will go up on Ebay

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:18 PM

She also said she will be in charge of the Senate and policy making as Vice President.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:25 PM

It's comforting to know somebody will be in charge of the Senate for a change!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 07:18 PM

What she claims the VP can do is against the Constitution. If she'd ever read it, she would know that and so would you.

Good op/ed piece on her sinking numbers

and, a REALLY good one about all those "un-Americans" who come from BIG cities: HERE.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 07:24 PM

This from Wikipedia:

       As designated by the Constitution of the United States, the vice president also serves as the President of the Senate, and may break tie votes in that chamber.[2] He or she may be assigned additional duties by the president...


                So the writer of that column has some homework to do...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 09:29 PM

$50,000 really isn't a whole lot for clothing a Vice Presidential consort from Alaska. It really requires an entirely new wardrobe (polar bear or moose skin doesn't cut it), and several sets in a full spectrum of colors from puke green to fuchsia.

I'm only surprised she didn't spend more!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 10:29 PM

The reported figure, Charley, is One Hundred Fifty Thousand.

I must say that I had noticed her clothes. I had been surprised that an Alaskan was into such fancy duds. Hadn't occurred to me that she'd been taken shopping.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 11:40 PM

Sarah's model is Cheney. Not a reasonable model. Usually only when the president himself is capable of virtually nothing--even a coherent sentence.

Shows that Sarah--like her defenders-- has very little knowledge of US history. Or probably much else. Except smearing. No wonder Mr. Hypocrite, AKA the CEO of Smears R Us, likes her.

If the president has anything to recommend him, the VP is usually frustrated beyond belief--hence the "bucket of warm spit" (maybe worse).

Only recent exception--when the president himself was more than an amiable barfly, as is the current occupant of the Oval Office --is Clinton--he let Gore handle some areas.

McCain is miles above GWB in intellectual ability--and interest.

GWB has neither.

And only the absurd notion of half the electorate that they just wanted a drinking buddy got him in in 2000. And the spectacularly successful propaganda campaign of 2004 did the job that year.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:05 AM

Ebbie-

What I saw as a report provided more of a breakdown between clothing, accessories, make-up and other beauty processing; that's where my $50,000 figure came from. The total expense was reported in the neighborhood of $150,000, which is a damn sight more than the whole town of Wassila most likely spends on clothing and accessories on an annual basis. But it's important that Palin at least look wicked sharp, as we say in Maine.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:43 AM

"Popular Views on Palin"


               Brilliant, absolutely brilliant!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:04 AM

Rig:   ??????   A.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 12:18 PM

"They're in charge of the United States Senate, so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes," she (Palin) said.

The comment directly contradicted the separation-of-powers principle enshrined in the US constitution, under which the vice-president as president of the Senate has a casting vote in the event of a tie, but takes no other role.

Ken Adelman, a Republican hawk who served in top diplomatic and defense posts for presidents Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, told the New Yorker magazine that Palin's choice for vice president made him switch sides and he is now supporting Obama for president.

Former secretary of state Colin Powell, a Republican and military general who has also served as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, on Sunday endorsed Obama and said of Palin: "I don't believe she is ready to be president of the United States, which is the job of the vice president."

And one of former president George H.W. Bush's speechwriters, Christopher Buckley, a prominent conservative, announced this month he was abandoning support for McCain for many reasons, including "the Palin nomination. What on earth can he have been thinking?"

From this place

The breakdown on the clothing bill:

$75,062 spent at Neiman Marcus in Minneapolis
$41,850 spent in St Louis
$4,100 on make-up and hair consulting
$4,902 at Atelier, a men's clothing shop in New York
$92 on a romper suit and hat with ears (for the youngest of her children)

from BBC News

But, her $150,000 seems like a drop in the bucket to McCain's wife's outfit at the RNC - $300,000 due in large part to a pair of diamond earrings. Of course, she probably paid for them herself. Nothin' elite about them, now is there.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 12:22 PM

It was widespread voter disenfranchisement that got Bush elected in 2000 and 2004. And it could get McCain elected in 2008. I hope it doesn't, but it's a real possibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 12:27 PM

I find myself thinking that the reason the Republicans need have expensive clothes on the campaign trail is in order to impress all of the financial elites whose votes (and donations) they depend on, and whose elbows they rub daily.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 12:28 PM

'"Former secretary of state Colin Powell... on Sunday endorsed Obama and said of Palin: "I don't believe she is ready to be president of the United States, which is the job of the vice president."'


               At the time he made that statement, the viewing public was unaware that he was in the process of carrying out a political agenda of his own. Since that motivation has been uncovered, his comments have much less veracity.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 12:38 PM

Rig:

WHat on earth are you referring to? Don't you ever get tired of making unfounded, unreferenced statements? DO you really expect others to accept your armwaving as facts? Do you have any factual basis for your statement about POwell's having some other political agenda (other than the obvious one of throwing his support behind Obama)?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 12:44 PM

I think the fact that he may be advising an Obama presidency gives his words more veracity rather than less. I have no doubt that Powell could have had an advisory position in a McCain administration, if he had wanted one. The fact that he would prefer to advise Obama than McCain, I think speaks volumes about McCain and his abilities.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:11 PM

"Do you have any factual basis for your statement about POwell's having some other political agenda..."


                  Yes! After the announcement was made, Obama went public with the statement that Powell would be playing some role in an Obama Administration.
                  The public was unaware that these arrangements had been made prior to the Press the Meat program. Now the public knows why he said what he did.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:18 PM

We have a different thread in which to direct stupid and unfounded accusations at Colin Powell.

This thread is about Caribou Barbie, like it or not. (And, like her or not).

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:22 PM

I suspect that his decision to advise Obama definitely informed his decision to endorse Obama. But his choice to advise an Obama administration rather than McCain administration tells us which of the two candidates he thinks would be the better president.

It's not like there wouldn't be as much personal gain for him in advising a McCain administration as there would be in advising an Obama administration, and I have no doubt that he could have had either position.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:29 PM

"...his choice to advise an Obama administration rather than McCain administration tells us which of the two candidates he thinks would be the better president."


                It actually might tell us which campaign made the better offer. In any event, Sarah Palin was the fall-gal, and now the public knows that.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:34 PM

Which campaign made the better offer. I expect it's obvious to everyone that this is as much an criticism of McCain as it is of Obama. General Powell, on the other hand, doesn't need a "better offer". He's already turned down the presidency, twice, as well as the vice presidency.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM

There are a number of things that can constitute a "better offer." It wouldn't seem out of character for him to have decided to vote for Obama, but by slamming Sarah Palin in the process, he opened the door for inquiry.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:58 PM

He didn't "slam" Sarah Palin. He said that she is a distinguished woman and she deserves to be admired, but that it is his opinion that she is not ready for the presidency. It's a lie to say that Powell "slammed" Palin.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:25 PM

Okay, he slammed the McCain/Palin ticket then. He didn't have to do that to simply say he was supporting Obama. He went to great lengths to smear the McCain campaign. What the pay-off will be, we'll find out after January 20th.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:41 PM

I don't see how he could possibly have given his reasons for supporting Obama and not his long time good friend, McCain, without pointing out the factors that lead to his making that decision. He made no gratuitous criticisms. He listed all of the factors that lead to his making the decision to support for Obama. He also had a lot of good things to say about McCain as well. He said several times that McCain would be a good president. But after listing the concerns he had about the McCain campaign and McCain's selection for vice president, he showed that the reasons he had for endorsing Obama were greater and more compelling than for McCain, and the reasons for not voting for McCain were greater and more compelling than those for not voting for Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 03:06 PM

Pointing out disagreements with an opponent's stated policies and proposals is not "negative campainging."

Stating one's opinion that a one candidate is less qualified than another is a little closer to what might be deemed "negative," but is pretty nearly unavoidable when discussing a choice between two alternatives.

The abovementioned practices are quite clearly not in the same category as questioning the opponent's patriotism or status as a "real American," insinuating that he is in league with terrorists, and encouraging the kind of mob-mentality hysteria that prompts prople to call out for a lynching.

Yeah, sure, McCain, you say that they're "fringe people" and out of your control. But why is it that "fringe people" on the other end of the political spectrum ~ people you would be very quick to demonize as traitors and communists ~ are not making themselves heard at your opponent's rallies?

For that matter, why are they not in evidence at your public appearances, but only at events where Governor Palin is whipping up anger with her false accusations and inane generalizations?

It's because she is irresponsibly encouraging that kind of mindless and violent response, that's why.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 04:00 PM

Who could blame her after what Powell said about her?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 04:09 PM

Rig:

That is a really disingenuous statement. One minute's search into things would show you--if you cared to find out--that Sarah Palin has been doing her "stir up the hate" thing for many weeks before Powell announced he was going to endorse Barack Obama.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 04:26 PM

Who could blame her after what Powell said about her? Anybody with a reasonable sense of what was honourable. Compare McCain's public response to Powell's decision to endorse Obama over him.

So it's an insult to say that someone is not equipped to be president? There are an awful lot of people to whom that "insult" applies, and very few to whom it doesn't. Just because she's been drafted to stand in this election doesn't in any way indicate that she isn't one of the countless millions who are not ready to take on the top job. Why should it?

After all, enough people have said it of Obama, and he has, quite correctly, taken it as a criticism to be disproved rather than as an insult that justifies anything and everything in the way of reprisal..

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 04:43 PM

Gen Powell said nothing at all about Gov Palin that could possibly be construed as "hateful," a "smear," or even unfair.

He simply observed that he could not accept the idea that she was well-qualified to ascend to the highest office in the United States of America.

He prefaced his remarks by saying several nice things about her, which was not really necessary. Also, of course, he is hardly the first person to voice this very common (and very plausible) opinion.

Or is it that fact that he's African-American that leads you believe that he's not entitled to have an opinion about the qualifications of Sarah Palin?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 05:34 PM

"He simply observed that he could not accept the idea that she was well-qualified to ascend to the highest office in the United States of America."



                      But neither is Barack Obama, and Powell endorsed him!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 06:15 PM

Obama has demonstrated repeatedly that he is personally far more qualified than Ms. Lipstick on a Pitbull.


Powell obviously disagrees with you, and I would suggest he is better qualified to make the call than you are.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 07:35 PM

However when Rig says that in his opinion Obama is not qualified to be president he is not in any way insulting or smearing him. He's just expressing an opinion, which is his right.

It is also Colin Powell's right.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 07:40 PM

Quite right, quite right. Sorry I got peeved.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 07:47 PM

If one only compares the handling of the respective campaigns there is only only logical conclusion that can be drawn and that is that Obama is infinately the better administrator... His campiagn has been consistent, thoughtful and on message...

(Isn't that what CEO's are paid to do, Bobert???)

Well, yeah... And other executives...

His campaign v. Mcain's campaign is "Exhibit A, B, C and D" on why Obama has the better executive experience...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 07:51 PM

Obama had more money than everyone else all the way through. That's the difference!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 07:59 PM

If the grassroots donors all over the country who gave small contributions preferred what McCain was saying, then McCain would have had that money instead of Obama. Put the responsibility where it belongs. On McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 08:30 PM

Obama got a $50 haircut, $250 suit, $100 shoes, $40 tie, $50 shirt, undies socks and handkerchief $40 and a $700 ring, cuff links and flag pin. Thats way over a thousand bucks.

Now lets think like Bill OReily, Thats 1000 bucks times 400 days of campaigning...thats way more than Palin's paltry clothing budget.


The most telling thing she said was "I'm going to find who said that!" *   Then her face went bitterly twisted in the most creepy troopergate kind of way.


*in response to a reporter quoting a writer for the National Review who rhetoricly used the words stupid and uniformed in a question about some people's reaction to Sarah Palin.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 09:41 PM

"If the grassroots donors all over the country who gave small contributions preferred what McCain was saying,..."


                   Not true! The bawling sheep who follow MoveOn.org have been told not to give money to anyone but Obama, and they always do what they're told. That's the money pit that ran over Hillary Clinton.
                   Some of us are more individualistic than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:37 PM

Rig-
(I address you because you are at least receptive of logic)
"He simply observed that he could not accept the idea that she was well-qualified to ascend to the highest office in the United States of America." THAT WAS POWELL'S OPINION

                      But neither is Barack Obama, and Powell endorsed him! THAT IS YOUR OPINION, NOT POWELL'S

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: TIA
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:39 PM

"Obama had more money than everyone else all the way through. That's the difference!"

And where did he get that money?

The answer to THAT question is the difference. Oh wait, I forgot....he married a rich heiress.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:02 PM

Ya know, Rig, it is quite possible that those who support Obama are not bawling sheep, at all -- just conscientious citizens looking for a better future. It is EVEN possible that the dittoheads who spout Bush's talking points are, likewise, real humans seeking a better future.

Your constant efforts to make less of Obama's accomplishments are tiresome and ungenerous of spirit.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:39 PM

Mr. Hypocrite (AKA CEO of Smears R US)--

You really have to learn that just because smearing is the only thing at which you have any expertise, that does not mean that everything anybody else says is a smear.

Some people, in contrast to you, have actual evidence and logic on which to base their attitudes--e.g. there are many reasons, several specified by Gen Powell, to prefer the policies, platform, and person of Obama over those of McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:42 PM

By the way, Dick, what could possibly have given you the impression that Rig was "receptive of logic"? (Surely you jest). His record is rather lopsidedly the other way.

And he reinforces it with every post.

Which we will now see shortly.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:48 PM

It's hopeless responding to Rig. I need to remind myself that he is a troll and hit the ignore button.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:06 AM

The point is, Powell could have endorsed Obama without slamming McCain and Palin. The reason he didn't became apparent the following day when Obama said he was going to be working with Powell if he got elected.

                To an open minded individual, they would detract from the endorsement.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:20 AM

The point is, Powell didn't slam anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 10:13 AM

He said McCain was erratic, which is an Obama talking point, and he said Palin wasn't qualified in an attempt to sabotage her candidacy. Then he formally joined up with Obama, so it was obvious to anyone who was paying attention that the fix was in before he went on Meet the Press.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 10:16 AM

Powell said Palin isn't qualified because it is true. She doesn't even understand the role of the vice president as evidenced by her recent statements.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 10:22 AM

Powell didn't say she's unqualified. He said she's not ready. There's a difference there, and I think that distinction is important for understanding Powell's thinking.

I don't recall Powell saying McCain was erratic. Perhaps someone can provide the direct quote.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 10:22 AM

Her description of what the VP does exactly what the constitution says those activities should be.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:33 AM

It does not, Rig.

"ABC News' Imtiyaz Delawala and Z. Byron Wolf Report: Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin said in a local interview that the vice president is "in charge of" the U.S. Senate and "can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes" – the second time she has claimed a more expansive role for the vice president than the U.S. Constitution outlines.

On Monday while in Colorado, Palin taped an interview with Denver NBC affiliate KUSA. At the end of the interview, she was asked to participate in the station's "Questions from the Third Grade" series, in which candidates have fielded questions from local elementary school students.

"Brandon Garcia wants to know, 'What does the Vice President do?'" Palin was asked.

"That's something that Piper would ask me, as a second grader, also," Palin responded, referencing her seven-year-old daughter.

"A vice president has a really great job because not only are they there to support the president's agenda, they're there like the team member, the teammate to the president," Palin continued. "But also, they're in charge of the United States Senate, so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes that will make life better for Brandon and his family and his classroom. And it's a great job and I look forward to having that job."

While the Vice President does serve as president of the Senate, according to the U.S. Constitution, the vice president's role is fairly limited to casting tie-breaking votes.

Article I of the Constitution states that "The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided."

In recent years, the role has been largely ceremonial. Vice President Dick Cheney has cast just eight tie-breaking votes during the Bush administration. Most recently in March, Vice President Cheney broke a tie on a procedural motion whether to consider an amendment that would have rolled back tax rates for the alternative minimum tax.

The vice president can also preside over floor debate in the Senate -- a role usually filled by the Senate president pro tempore, and more often done by first-term senators.

Palin was also asked the role of the vice president in her debate earlier this month with Senator Joe Biden, where she cited the vice president's role presiding over the Senate as a way to "exert a bit more authority" to work with the Senate on the president's agenda.

"I'm thankful the Constitution would allow a bit more authority given to the vice president if that vice president so chose to exert it in working with the Senate and making sure that we are supportive of the president's policies and making sure too that our president understands what our strengths are," Palin said in the debate.

When asked to explain her remarks in an interview with Fox News the day after the debate, Plain reiterated her position that overseeing the Senate would give her "a tremendous amount of flexibility and authority" to work with the Senate."...(ABC)

---

The difference between presiding over the administrative procedures of the Senate, usually done by the Senate's presiding pro tem president, and using the Senate to have a lot of influence over the legislative branch, is palpable and obvious. It is a necessary distinction which Palin's ingenuous assertions undermine.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 12:12 PM

I guess it depends on how you read it. Given the fact that the VP would also be championing the administration's agenda with various senators (committee chairs, ranking members), it seems to me that what Palin said is perfectly in order with what a VP is expected to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:00 PM

Christ, can you read?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:21 PM

He can read..he just has the answer already worked out, so everything MUST be interpreted to fit the pre-digested view.

Reminds me of the saying: "Give a small boy a hammer, and everything he sees looks like a nail."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:37 PM

He said McCain was erratic, which is an Obama talking point, and he said Palin wasn't qualified in an attempt to sabotage her candidacy.

He might also have said that the world is more than a few thousand years old, and that also would have been seen as controversial by some people.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:39 PM

"Christ, can you read?"


            As far as I know, it's unclear whether Christ can read or not!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:17 PM

Alice, Amos Ron and others

While Rig is mostly on the Libertarian side of the fence, he is doing a public service of simply making you think past your first response to a contrary opinion.

The semi secret is Rig is as much for Obama as I am.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:36 PM

you are assuming I don't think past my first response to a contrary opinion. You have not seen all the responses I deleted instead of posting.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:37 PM

The Russians Sing to Mrs. Palin--a crackup!!



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:18 PM

is now rated unfavorably by just more than half of likely voters, capping her dramatic rise in unpopularity as the presidential campaign has progressed.


Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama are locked in a tight battle for the White House. ABC News and the Washington Post partner in a daily tracking poll, examining the 2008 presidential campaign from now through Election Day.

Other measures continue to help the Democrats as well: As the economic crisis has deepened, Barack Obama has maintained his lead in trust to handle the economy, now 17 points, as well as an 18-point advantage in better understanding voters' problems.

And strong enthusiasm among his supporters is at a new high: 70 percent, nearly double John McCain's, and well above that of any of the presidential candidates in 2000 or 2004.

(ABC News)

6 - 10/23        --        --        50.4        42.5        Obama +7.9 (RCP)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:30 PM

The view from the UK liberal press

'Fair game?

She's the subject of a porn film and a sex doll has been made in her image. So why hasn't there been a bigger backlash against the misogyny aimed at Sarah Palin'

But as the attacks on her have grown, they have come to seem more and more disturbing.
This is partly because - like many of the sexist attacks on Hillary Clinton during the primaries - they have come from people who would usually consider themselves progressive.
On the liberal Huffington Post website, for instance, one blogger wrote: "Basically, I want to have sex with [Palin] on my Barack Obama sheets while my wife reads from the Constitution." Great.

One person who has been speaking out against the trend is the feminist writer Melissa McEwan, who blogs at Shakesville (other websites that have addressed it are feministing.com and feministe.us).
She's been conducting a "Sarah Palin sexism watch", and says that "the most depressing thing has been to see not just conservatives being misogynist, but progressives too.
People who are ostensibly supposed to be feminist see no problem with saying: 'Well, because I don't agree with her politics, it's OK to use misogyny against her.'"

McEwan defends Palin because she recognises that these attacks have a huge knock-on effect on women in general - as Morgan says: "Even in this case, where I disagree with the politics of the individual, the contempt shown for her, even when it's expressed in the form of a compliment ('I'd like to fuck her'), spills over on to all women."

Taken with the sexist attacks on Clinton, this underlines the fact that any woman entering public life runs the risk of being reduced to the most basic female stereotype that springs to mind - in Clinton's case it was the ball breaker (nutcrackers were produced in her image); in Palin's case, the porn star.

McEwan says she has had emails from women saying: "'You know, I used to think about going into politics, but now I see stuff like this, and I think there's no way.' ... It's basically saying, we're going to require you to have skin so thick that you're going to have to put up with this - and that's a misogyny tax. You're literally being taxed for being a woman."
She has also looked at the treatment of Margaret Thatcher and Geraldine Ferraro during their campaigns and found similar incidents, although "it wasn't so pornified".

from The Guardian, Friday October 24 2008

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 10:44 PM

Emma - I agree, Sarah Palin has demonstrated that she has pretty thick skin. But I've never seen an attack of this nature against a male candidate.
                      I suspect there are male journalists out there who feel very much threatened by a woman who has accomplished as much as Sarah Palin has. They need to either grow up or get out of the business.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:08 PM

Within hours of an alleged attack, not days, both John McCain and Sarah Palin telephoned a "coed who claimed yesterday she was sexually attacked by a black Obama supporter" with their sympathy and support.

Sarah called to lend her support and sympathy...

You have to admit that Sarah Palin is sympathetic to crimes against women. She doesn't have to be a feminist to decry sexual violence, even if it is a premeditated case of fraudulent race baiting.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:13 PM

"You have to admit that Sarah Palin is sympathetic to crimes against women."


                Well, you're right about that!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:27 PM

Donuel, I'm sorry, but your political "insights" have not been markedly better than Rig's--your paranoia seems to lie in another direction--but as for clear thinking--you're solidly in Rig's category.

You're welcome to take that as a compliment, if you'd like. It wouldn't surprise me.

However if you think Rig is for Obama, you take the cake for naivete. Congratulations.

And Rig has proven the perfect model for "Nowhere Man"--especially "Just sees what he wants to see".

I think he was put on earth just as a gift to Mudcatters who desperately need a way to waste time.

It's only too bad it's so much fun to dismantle what passes for his "arguments", it's addictive.

And we all really have better uses for our time.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:27 PM

Well, I liked what McCain was before he started pandering to the right wing of the Republican party in his efforts to get elected. Had he remained as he used to pretend to be, he might still have my support. But he never really was what he once pretended to be, so he really never did flip flop on anything. He's always been a political opportunist and he always will be.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:28 PM

Oops. Posted that to the wrong thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:29 PM

But of course, we also have no idea if you are really for Obama or not, Donuel. You could spell it out--that would help.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:31 PM

Your guy participated in bloody race baiting scheme and false claims of a sexual attack.

Your godess went along with it to the extent of placing a very quick sympathy call.

Rigs, either take off your mask this once and condemn the obvious, or I will hold both of your personna beneath contempt for the rest of my life.
(or yours, whichever is shorter :)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:36 PM

Sorry, Donuel--you may have a really long wait--several eons-- before Rig does as you have asked.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:43 PM

Opps, I'm sorry, I thought it was obvious!



I would be proud, honored and mountain top hopeful above all the valleys of cynical dispair where rivers have run since the life and times of Abraham Lincoln...

when Barack Obama becomes President of the United States of America.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:45 PM

Whew, I have a bad case of hperbole today.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 08:43 AM

"Well, I liked what McCain was before he started pandering to the right wing of the Republican party in his efforts to get elected."


                The scary part is, we know McCain is pandering to the rigid right wing of his party, but Obama is pandering to the center of his. Obama is a left wing loony by training, so after the election, when both men return to their natural demeanor, the American public would be much better off with McCain than Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 08:54 AM

OK Rig--what about Donuel's challenge to you to condemn the blatantly false attempt to drag Obama supportersinto the supposed attack on that unstable female?

How many eons will we have to wait for you to do so?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 08:54 AM

"supporters into"

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 10:39 AM

People were simply commenting on what the victim said when she first addressed her problems to the police. The last thing I read about her, she had been placed under psychiatric observation.

             Crazy people get folks stirred up from time to time, but it usually doesn't last long.

             Even if she had been telling the truth, what would it mean? An Obama supported who had nothing to do with either the candidate or the campaign did something. That's as stupid as trying to make some kind of an issue about Sarah Palin's clothes.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 10:42 AM

Rig--

So you do condemn the attempt to drag Obama supporters into this supposed attack on a McCain supporter--which turns out to be totally false? That was Donuel's challenge to you.

Yes or no? One word answer.

None of your usual drivel is necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:38 AM

Who was the highest paid individual in Senator John McCain's presidential campaign during the first half of October as it headed down the homestretch?

Not Randy Scheunemann, Mr. McCain's chief foreign policy adviser; not Nicolle Wallace, his senior communications staffer. It was Amy Strozzi, Gov. Sarah Palin's traveling makeup artist, according to a new filing with the Federal Election Commission on Thursday night.

Ms. Strozzi, who was nominated for an Emmy award for her makeup work on the television show "So You Think You Can Dance?", was paid $22,800 for the first two weeks of October alone, according to the records. The campaign categorized Ms. Strozzi's payment as "Personnel Svc/Equipment."

In addition, Angela Lew, who is Ms. Palin's traveling hair stylist, got $10,000 for "Communications Consulting" in the first half of October. Ms. Lew's address listed in F.E.C. records traces to an Angela M. Lew in Thousands Oaks, Calif., which matches with a license issued by the California Board of Barbering and Cosmetology. The board said Ms. Lew works at a salon called Hair Grove in Westlake Village, Calif.

W Magazine's blog reported earlier this month that "the Guv has been traveling with a hairstylist named Angela, who usually works out of a salon called the Hair Grove," and that she was directed to the salon by none other than Cindy McCain, whose own hair stylist, Piper, works at the Hair Grove as well. (Related: To Look Good, How Much Is Too Much?)

The campaign's payment on Oct. 10 to Ms. Strozzi made her the single highest-paid individual in the campaign for that two week period. (There were more than two-dozen companies that got larger payments than Ms. Strozzi). She easily beat out Mr. Scheunemann, who received $12,500 in the first half of October, and Ms. Wallace, who got $12,000. Ms. Lew was the fourth highest paid person in the campaign during that span.
...(NYT)

---

Style over substance. Appearance over organization. Looks over production. With priorities like these it is no wonder McCain is struggling to hold the barricades even in Florida.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 12:46 PM

After having been savaged by Gibson and Couric, McCain probably felt like the governor needed a morale booster.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:07 PM

Ah, well. Morale, in case you didn't know it, comes from honest production. Not from spending wads of donor money on Neiman Marcus clothes. Again, the fraudulent superficiality contrasts sharply with the wheels-to-the-road organization and honest intent of the Obama campaign, it seems to me.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:59 PM

CNN) -- With 10 days until Election Day, long-brewing tensions between GOP vice presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin and key aides to Sen. John McCain have become so intense, they are spilling out in public, sources say.

Several McCain advisers have suggested to CNN that they have become increasingly frustrated with what one aide described as Palin "going rogue."

A Palin associate, however, said the candidate is simply trying to "bust free" of what she believes was a damaging and mismanaged roll-out.

McCain sources say Palin has gone off-message several times, and they privately wonder whether the incidents were deliberate. They cited an instance in which she labeled robocalls -- recorded messages often used to attack a candidate's opponent -- "irritating" even as the campaign defended their use. Also, they pointed to her telling reporters she disagreed with the campaign's decision to pull out of Michigan.

A second McCain source says she appears to be looking out for herself more than the McCain campaign.

"She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone," said this McCain adviser. "She does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else.

"Also, she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party. Remember: Divas trust only unto themselves, as they see themselves as the beginning and end of all wisdom."

A Palin associate defended her, saying that she is "not good at process questions" and that her comments on Michigan and the robocalls were answers to process questions.

But this Palin source acknowledged that Palin is trying to take more control of her message, pointing to last week's impromptu news conference on a Colorado tarmac.

Tracey Schmitt, Palin's press secretary, was urgently called over after Palin wandered over to the press and started talking. Schmitt tried several times to end the unscheduled session.

"We acknowledge that perhaps she should have been out there doing more," a different Palin adviser recently said, arguing that "it's not fair to judge her off one or two sound bites" from the network interviews.

The Politico reported Saturday on Palin's frustration, specifically with McCain advisers Nicolle Wallace and Steve Schmidt. They helped decide to limit Palin's initial press contact to high-profile interviews with Charlie Gibson of ABC and Katie Couric of CBS, which all McCain sources admit were highly damaging.

In response, Wallace e-mailed CNN the same quote she gave the Politico: "If people want to throw me under the bus, my personal belief is that the most honorable thing to do is to lie there."

But two sources, one Palin associate and one McCain adviser, defended the decision to keep her press interaction limited after she was picked, both saying flatly that she was not ready and that the missteps could have been a lot worse.

They insisted that she needed time to be briefed on national and international issues and on McCain's record.

Schmitt came to the back of the plane Saturday to deliver a statement to traveling reporters: "Unnamed sources with their own agenda will say what they want, but from Gov. Palin down, we have one agenda, and that's to win on Election Day."

Yet another senior McCain adviser lamented the public recriminations.

"This is what happens with a campaign that's behind; it brings out the worst in people, finger-pointing and scapegoating," this senior adviser said.

CNN

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 06:16 PM

Seeing it MaCain/Palin campain) implode would be a blessing & a joy to all of America. These two remind me of the "Laurel & Hardy Show", "what a fine mess you got us into Stan!".

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:27 AM

Here is a poetic view of Palin (and McCain).



The Vet Who Did Not Vet

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:31 AM

Maureen Dowd remarks:

..."In 1991, with Americans fretting about a shaky economy, Poppy Bush visited a J. C. Penney and bought $28 worth of tube socks and a toddler's sweat suit in a desperate effort to seem in touch with the common folk. Palin might have followed that example and popped into Penney's to buy some new American-made duds. She is so naturally good-looking, there is no need to gild the Last Frontier lily.

Instead, with the economy cratering and the McCain campaign running on an "average Joe" theme, dunderheaded aides, led by the former Bushies Nicolle Wallace and Tracey Schmitt, costumed their Eliza Doolittle for a ball when she should have been dressing for a bailout.

The Republicans' attempt to make the case that Barack Obama is hoity-toity and they're hoi polloi has fallen under the sheer weight of the stunning numbers:

The McCains own 13 cars, eight homes and access to a corporate jet, and Cindy had her Marie Antoinette moment at the convention. Vanity Fair calculated that her outfit cost $300,000, with three-carat diamond earrings worth $280,000, an Oscar de la Renta dress valued at $3,000, a Chanel white ceramic watch clocking in at $4,500 and a four-strand pearl necklace worth between $11,000 and $25,000. While presenting herself as an I'm-just-like-you hockey mom frugal enough to put the Alaska state plane up for sale on eBay, Palin made her big speech at the convention wearing a $2,500 cream silk Valentino jacket that the McCain staff had gotten her at Saks.

At that point, Palin should have been savvy enough to tell those doing her makeover that she was a Wal-Mart mom. The sartorial upgrade was bound to turn into a strategy downgrade, as Palin pressed her case as a homespun gal who was ever so much more American than the elite, foreignish Obama, while she was gussied up in Italian couture.

Politico broke the news that the Republican National Committee spent over $150,000 on a "Pretty Woman"-style shopping spree for Palin, including about $75,000 at Neiman Marcus in Minneapolis and nearly $50,000 at Saks Fifth Avenue in New York and St. Louis.

Palin advisers did their best to spin the fashion explosion during the economic implosion, telling The Times that she needed new outfits to match the climate changes across 50 states.

Republicans once more charged the media with sexism for reporting on Palin's Imelda Marcos closet. "No one would blink if this was a male candidate buying Brooks Brothers suits," said William F. B. O'Reilly, a G.O.P. consultant.

It doesn't wash to cry sexism now any more than it did at the beginning, when the campaign tried to use that dodge to divert attention from Palin's lacunae in the sort of knowledge you need to run the world. The press has written plenty about the vanities and extravagances of male candidates. (See: Haircuts, John Edwards and Bill Clinton.) Sexism would be to treat Palin differently, or more delicately, than one of the guys.

The governor who spent all her time talking about how she had cleaned up excesses in Alaska, and would do the same in Washington, also went over the top on hair and makeup. As a former beauty pageant contestant and sports anchor on TV, Palin already seemed on top of her grooming before the McCain campaign made her traveling makeup artist, Amy Strozzi, the highest-paid individual on the campaign for the first two weeks of October. Ms. Strozzi, who earned an Emmy nomination for her war paint skills on the TV show "So You Think You Can Dance," made $22,800 for the first half of this month...."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:49 AM

Yes, I think the mainstream media, in their terror of being labled racist so they won't say anything bad about Obama, have turned sexist as they turn savagely on Palin.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:11 PM

Oh, right. It's sexism--profligate wasteful spending is a natural prerogative of women? Come on, Rig. You CAN do better.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:16 PM

Rig--

Still waiting for you to provide the clear statement requested by Donuel--that you condemn the attempt to blame Obama supporters for this alleged attack on that unstable girl-- the attack which turns out to be totally false.

Looks like it will a long wait for that clear statement from you.

You'll be glad to ignore it as long as it takes.

So evidently Donuel will, as he said, be considering you beneath contempt.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:30 PM

More mythology from Rigs...

We, who are working in the Obama campaign, have been told from above to leave Sarah Palin the heck alone... Ignoring her is part of the Obama strategy...

Does that mean that eveyone got the memo, or that of the hundreds of thousands of volunteers that you can't find a few folks who might say negative stuff about Palin in the course of the campaign??? Well, no it doesn't but the campaign's official position is to leave the woman alone and let her destroy herself, which BTW, she is doing a fine job...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:57 PM

Breaking news--

AP: 26 Oct 2008

"Gov. Sarah Palin's signature accomplishment--a contract to build a 1,715 mile pipeline to bring natural gas from Alaska to the Lower 48--emerged from flawed bidding process that narrowed the field to a company with ties to her administration, a Associated Press investigation shows."...

"Most definitely, TransCanada got a sweetheart deal this time" said Republican Sen. Bert Stedman, who voted against the TransCanada license. "Where else could you get a $500 million reimbursement when you don't even have the financing to build the pipeline?"




My comment:   This may not help her "reformer" image.

I think we'll be hearing more about this issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 01:00 PM

Ron - You obviously don't know anything about getting major infrastructure projects completed.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 01:04 PM

Ah, dear, dear Riggie, there was a great deal of talk in Alaska about it at the time. A good many oil and gas development companies complained about it.

And Senator Stedman has a good reputation here. Even though he is a Republican. *g*

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 01:30 PM

I can remember when the originally bid out the main Alaska Pipeline--huge contractors like Guy F. Atkinson, and M&C, and Perini were having to go together just to tender a bid. No one company was capitalized well enough to bid on the job.

                   A lot of contractors thought the government should split the work up and put out separate contracts. The government didn't want to do that. I think they were right, but there was a lot of belly-aching about it at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 03:10 PM

s a woman, I am thoroughly disgusted by such a stupid woman selected by an aging demented man as a VP. Women have been portrayed as a lesser being long enough, and to have this character displayed in all her different persona, none of them flattering, is an insult to women all over the US and the world. We are all better than what Palin has been saying and doing; not all of us are stupid and liars to boot. Why women won''t stand up, and reject this is puzzling. Is this one reason why more women have not been able to rise faster to the top?? Not when you have Palin displayed as an example of "women".

Posted by notopennshut at 03:03 PM : Oct 26, 2008
+ report abuse
Haha ! Your true colors are showing, Palin ! Perhaps you and first dude have written your inaugaral speech for 2012 ? Perhaps you have measured the White House curtains for 2012 ? Perhaps you would love to be delivering the inaugaral speech for McCain ? As a woman, I find you disgraceful to womankind !

Posted by puppetry17 at 02:54 PM : Oct 26, 2008

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 03:46 PM

You really ought to use quote marks or something Amos.

I mean, starting a post with "As a woman..."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 04:07 PM

QUite right, Kevin. Mea maxima culpissima.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 04:37 PM

"..from a flawed....." ....."...an Associated Press..."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:39 PM

As usual, Mr Hypocrite (post 1:00 PM) I see you are shooting from the hip (and lip) without bothering to engage brain. It's just possible Ebbie may know more about it than you. Nor did you, I suspect, bother to read the AP article in question.

It's true I don't know that much about infrastructure projects. Just more than you.

And I have better sources--and the intelligence to seek them out.

Too bad you have none of the above--or even any desire to get them.

You're totally lost when you step outside of Smears R Us.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 11:41 PM

Ron - It's doubtful that you know more about infrastructure projects than I do, since I've been in the business for over 40 years--and am still in the business. But the AP piece is just another pro-Obama hatchet job to smear Sarah Palin.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 12:17 AM

ANother Hockey Mom speaks out.

(Warning: partisan sentiment. It's funny though!)1

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 09:13 AM

Amos-

I love the way that Hockey Mom manages those multi-syllable lines. We should invite her to post on Mudcat.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 10:11 AM

That's cute, Amos!

I hear Sarah is wearing jeans and clothes from "her favorite consignment shop" again. Her small protest at being abused by the McCain camp.

Hmmm. I guess she's looking to her future beyond the campaign. Has to begin disassociating herself from it now.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 07:17 AM

She's rebounding in the polls now!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 08:16 AM

If she does get a bump in the polls it is because she has broken outta the McCain prison and is running like hell for freedom... Next thing ya' know, she'll be endorsing Obama...

"Take this job and shove it..." (Johnny Paycheck, not Joe the Plumber)

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 08:27 AM

That's right! A plumber would be more apt to sing, "Take this job and screw it."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 08:49 AM

Mr. Riginslimer--

You say say you are in the infrastructure "business".

You have no credibility in anything any more. And it's entirely your own doing.

All you've established is that you are a bitter semiliterate---bitter at: organized religion, capitalism, black people of any prominence, and, possibly above all, Mexican immigrants. Who knows, you may have other pet hates.

You have contributed nothing of any worth to the discussion. Any "fact" you submit is virtually always a half-truth, at best.

You are stuffed full of prejudice, and that's what rules your life.   People can claim anything they want on the Net--and you do. You also have unlimited time to post--all day and deep into the night--which raises the suspicion you are retired and not actively productive at all. Many retirees are, but not you.   And the retirement was not voluntary, which may cause your bitterness.

I suspect your only "infrastructure" experience is in cleaning McDonalds grills, or something of that nature.

The main question that arises is why you are on Mudcat at all, since you have shown no interest in music. As you should be aware, we don't need "politics only" posters.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 09:18 AM

Ron - You continue to accuse me of being bitter at organized religion. I've pointed out to you on many occasions that I'm bitter at all religion, organized or not.

                And I don't think McDonald's grills qualifies as "infrastructure." I suppose once the residue gets out to the grease trap, maybe, but...

                And I'd like very much to retire, but since the stock market went into the toilet, in anticipation of an Obama presidency, retirement is farther away than ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:35 AM

Riginslimer--

As I said, you have absolutely no credibility--on anything. You have proven yourself a total hypocrite, adept at nothing but smears, and not worth the time of any thinking person.

And you have truly earned this status by dint of hard work--in putting out total drivel-- over a period of years.

Congratulations.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Barry Finn
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:45 AM

SHe rebounding off the walls, not polls. She's killing the RNC & MaCain.
Imagine if these 2 idiots were in the White House together. I'd give MaCain a week before he either shot her in the head or she put a wooden stake through his heart. There's a pair that would really kill a full house.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 05:47 AM

Someone in the McCain campaign has called her a whacko.

However, what she really is, is a socialist...

"And Alaska - we're set up, unlike other states in the union, where it's collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs."

--Sarah Palin

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27424491/

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:47 AM

LOL

Palin impersonator at a McCain rally


(Wonder how she got there... )

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:17 AM

The media's constant bashing of Palin seems to be good for McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 03:27 PM

At last night's concert an audience member shouted out: If you crossed Sarah Palin with James Dean what would you get? A Rebel without a Clue!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Alice
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 09:53 PM

In her interview with Fox News' Greta van Susteren last night, Gov. Sarah Palin appeared to claim that the U.S. needs to "win" the non-existent war with Iran:

    "We realize that more and more Americans are starting to see the light there and understand the contrast. And we talk a lot about, OK, we're confident that we're going to win on Tuesday, so from there, the first 100 days, how are we going to kick in the plan that will get this economy back on the right track and really shore up the strategies that we need over in Iraq and Iran to win these wars?"

video of the interview here:
Palin says we are at war in Iran

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:19 AM

She's probably just following up on Obama's threat to invade Iran.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 04:09 PM

BATTLE, England (CNN) -- Townsfolk in England have delivered their explosive verdict on Sarah Palin, stuffing a giant effigy of the U.S. Republican vice presidential nominee with fireworks and blowing her up to raucous cheers.


Sarah Palin was depicted holding a machine gun, flanked by a moose and Barack Obama.

The unusual display was the climax of an annual bonfire celebration Saturday in the southern town of Battle, where political figures are a favorite target of a local tradition that sees a different icon destroyed each year.

This year's creation was a rather unflattering depiction of the self-declared "hockey mom," a machine gun brandished in her muscular arms, bright red lipstick surrounding a grimacing smile and a moose at her side.

Daubed beneath her was the slogan: "Too hot to handle."

The caricature of the Alaskan governor was flanked by a smaller effigy of Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama, wearing a military-style helmet. iReport.com: Man paints 100-foot Obama sign on lawn

Organizers of the event, which saw a procession of flaming torches march through the historic town before igniting a bonfire and detonating the effigy, say the politically-themed pyrotechnics were not meant to cause offense.

"We just felt she was one of the most interesting characters in the American elections," Matt Southam told the Rye and Battle Observer.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:30 PM

An interesting story on conflicts within the GOP campaign that are now surfacing now that the election is over.

My guess: Ms Palin has not returned all those clothes, and is going back a richer and better known Sarah.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:52 PM

Makes a welcome change from the practice of burning an effigy of the Pope I suppose Amos.
I remember one year a whole caravan of 'gypsies' was burned too!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 02:07 PM

Ha, Amos, I was just about to post that same article. Seems it was probably worse than we knew...she didn't know Africa was a continent??!!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Pseudolus
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 02:41 PM

Very interesting article. More interesting or should I say scary are the comments posted by readers below the article...holy crap!

Frank

P.S. First the Phillies win the Series then Obama gets elected. Since good things happen in threes, clearly I'm about to hit the lottery!!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:41 PM

I think everyone who welcomes Obama's election should recognise the tremendous debt they owe to Sarah Palin for helping bring this about.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:44 PM

INdeed, one must always welcome self-destructiveness in one's opponent! :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:15 AM

I received an e-mail from an outfit that's peddling "PALIN 2012" bumper stickers.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:52 AM

Mwahaha.

Nice to see the Republican spirit of delusion is still alive and well.

2012 will go to Obama. Sarah has eight years to grow some literacy and awareness. Then she can run again.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:58 AM

From the pages of Andy Borowitz, a humorist:

Palin Hoping to be Named Ambassador to Africa

'A Darned Important Country,' Says Guv

Sarah Palin of Alaska has reached out to President-elect Obama's transition team to indicate her interest in being named "ambassador to the nation of Africa," the governor confirmed today.

Gov. Palin said that although she had planned to continue in her position in Juneau, she was willing to leave the governorship "because Africa is just such a darned important country."

"I have always been very, very interested in the nation of Africa, partly because of it being located where it is," she said. "If you are standing in Africa and you look real close, you can see South Africa."

She added that she had received phone calls encouraging her to vie for the post, including one from French president Nicholas Sarkozy.

In other news from the Palin family, Bristol Palin's fiancé Levi Johnston said he was "totally stoked" about Tuesday night's election returns, calling the results "definitely a game-changer for me."

"The election of Barack Obama means different things to different people," he said. "To me, it means freedom, dude!"

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Palin
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 09:29 AM

That's great, Amos. This must have been the election with the all-time best opportunities for humorists. And we have definitely seen the benefits--which, among other things, modern technology has brought us.


Of course it's also extremely fortunate--for all sorts of reasons having nothing to do with Tina Fey--- that she will not have to leave the world--which she said she'd do if McCain/Palin won.