BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Peace
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 10:22 PM

Teachers are deemed by law to be acting 'in loco parentis'--that is 'in place of the parents'. It is wrong. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 08:36 PM

True, but if the other person had an ounce of sense she would have responded with something like, "Ah, mon petit enfant, tu est trop, trop jeune pour une femme vrai comme moi. Fait-tu le jeu avec toi-même."   (Mind you, my French isn't what it once was.)

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 07:28 PM

Richard Bridge talking sense there imo.

so a 16 year old male has sex with a 22 year old teacher.

Christ Almighty , he could be damaged for life, couldn't he ?

NOT !

When I was 16 there was a 22 year old French language assistant at my school, and I would have given my eye teeth to have had sex with her.

Unfortunately my French chat-up lines weren't quite as effective in these days as they became later ...

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 07:04 PM

Abuse of power isn't always abuse of the person over whom you have power, but it is still abuse of power...

And it could be the 15-year-old twitchbiscuit who has the power!

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 06:17 PM

Any time a person in authority (e.g., a supervisor, a military superior) has sex with someone under that authority the relationship is suspect. As the business saying has it, "Don't get your meat where you get your bread." The military calls it "command rape" even if it is "consensual"; in the business world the superior might lose their job or worse. The assumption is that the superior is guilty until proven otherwise, and sometimes even then. It's bad judgment on the part of the superior, and having worked in a situation where a supervisor was married (after a long affair) to the boss it is not good for the organization; morale problems are the least of it.

Any time a person has sex, consensual or not, with someone under the age of consent, that person is guilty of statutory rape. Period. We knew this when I was growing up and we knew what the penalties were. As they say, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."

There have recently been cases in the US where a teacher has sex with a student, mostly recently one who ran off to Mexico with the boy (13, I think he was, but she "considered him a man"). It's still statutory rape with "command rape" as icing on the cake -- not to mention unprofessional. Being on the sexual offender list is the least of the woman's worries....

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 05:34 PM

I suggest that all of you read THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF BOXCAR BERTHA as told to Dr. Ben Reitman. It is still available. A great read.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 05:18 PM

Richard,

As with all things - the reality and the idea may well have turned out to be very different things.

Though I will admit to having had at least one teacher I would have been interested in discovering the truth of that quandary with ...

In your case it sounds like te laws were there to protect your teachers from you ... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 05:14 PM

Oh, all you blokes - thin back to when you were say from 12 to 17. You'd have given your right arm to have a pretty female schoolteacher jump your bones. Too many po-faced gits have formulated our laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 04:52 PM

Thanks Q, but that information puts things into a very, very grey area.

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 04:51 PM

Law and school policy and professional standards may not all be the same.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 04:50 PM

I don't think that the law can have it both ways. If it isn't against the law for a person - of any age - to have consensual sex with a 16 year old - then teachers shouldn't be treated as a prosecutable, special case. If 16 is the age of consent - then that should be that; of course, whether or not a teacher's position in a school would be tenable if such a relationship were to become common knowledge is another thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 04:49 PM

In England and Wales, the law is quite simple. The age of consent is 16 (Sexual Offenses Act 2003). However, it is illegal for a person to engage in sexual activity with an individual under the age of 18 if they are in a position of trust in relation to that individual. This includes teachers, care givers, guardians, etc. (paragraph 44 (3), (4).
From Wikipedia.

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 04:44 PM

Here in the USA it is considered statutory rape if the minor is under 18.

Here in Rockland County, NY we recently had the case of Beth Modica, an assistant attorney for the Town Of Ramapo, a former assistant DA, and the wife of the Chief of Police for the Village of Spring Valley.
She had sex on numerous ocassions with the male friends of her teenage children who were ages 16 and 17.

She is now serving a sentence of 3 years in state prison. She has also lost her license to practice law as well as custody of her 3 teenage children. Her husband has also filed for divorce.

SOL

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 04:40 PM

A teacher is 'In loco parentis'
I'm sure if it was a parent you would be outraged.

XG

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 04:37 PM

So what about the situation where you have a 24yo (or thereabouts) teacher with a 17 or 18yo pupil who find they are getting close together?

You wait. As simple as that. If the 24-year-old is too immature to see the school child as a peer instead of a student, too bad.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: sapper82
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 04:29 PM

So what about the situation where you have a 24yo (or thereabouts) teacher with a 17 or 18yo pupil who find they are getting close together?

In the past, that situation has led to several quite happy marriages, yet by today's standards is illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 04:25 PM

She didn't say that either. This is a serious subject, and deserves to be treated as such, and not made into a clash of personalities. The subject is Teacher/Pupil Sex.
We can all quote scenarios, and ask whether someone agrees or disagrees,
You read, and you saw when you were in school, pupils with a crush on a teacher. It is an abuse of power if a teacher takes advantage of this immature happening, which is almost a rite of passage for a school kid.

XG

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 04:03 PM

Ebbie, are we saying it's wrong for older people to have sex with younger people? Would you say, for example, that it is wrong for a 40 year old to have non-pressured, consensual sex with a 16 year old? Or, is " if you really love, then you wouldn't say no" pressurised sex involving 16 and 17 year olds more acceptable in your view?

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 03:50 PM

" if you really love me, then you wouldn't say no". Tuenesmith

That line would typically be used by a peer, not by a person 15 or more years older.

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 03:31 PM

16 year olds are coerced into sex all the time; Take the classic line " if you really love me, then you wouldn't say no".

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 03:20 PM

Quiet possibly if it was felt that there was some level of coercion on the part of the boss. A 16 year old is still a minor.

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 02:48 PM

Yes, anyone in a position of authority regarding the child, youth worker, Scout Leader, etc etc. The catch all phrase is 'Abuse of authority'
It's a hard line to draw. What does one do about older men/women, who have a taste/obsession for much younger partners.
I find it creepy, and it disgusts me, but it happens. I mean some young girls are very attractive to me as a normal heterosexual male, but I would no more dream of doing anything about it, than fly in the air.
As for the 'Sex Offenders Register' that is another catch all, which classes all sexual perversions and misdemeanours in the same category.
It needs to be better defined in my opinion.

XG

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 02:39 PM

1. In the UK teachers are subject to a stricter rule of law than others.
2. Why couldn't I have had a teacher like that at school? I still think fondly of Miss Barfoot, who taught singing when I was about 12 and there was a junior matron who had a bit of a thing with a chap called Peter Bullas, much to the envy of the rest of us...

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 02:38 PM

I want to get this straight! In the UK, can a person - apart from a teacher, it seems - be prosecuted for having ( consensual ) sex with a 16 year old.

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 02:35 PM

Similar things have been in the news with youth pastors and teen church-goers here in the U.S. It's still an uneven relationship, though the latest story I read the pastor wasn't prosecuted.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 02:31 PM

In a firm nobody employed there will be under the age of 16 but in a school there will be many pupils under that age and I suppose they may be seen as "at risk". It really is a matter of professionalism and is best avoided! The sex-offenders' register is going a bit far IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 01:58 PM

OK, a 16 year old - in the UK - goes to work for a firm and has sex with the boss. Will the boss end up being prosecuted and have his name added to the sex offenders register?

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 01:58 PM

I think there is still a grey area when an adult who is deemed to have some position of authority over a minor persuades them to have sex. The teacher pupil relationship gives the adult a different status than say someone met at a club. The question of consent is put in doubt where it could be deemed that the adult had some sway over the minor and was in a position of trust. It is also a question of professionalism as with doctors.

Subject: RE: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 01:56 PM

I think it's different if you are in a position which gives you an unfair advantage, or a position of power, such as a teacher over a student.

Subject: BS: Teacher/Pupil Sex
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM

I was reading in the newspaper today that a 22 year old British teacher has been given a suspended sentence - and been put on the sex-offenders' register - for having sex - which was consensual - with a 16 year old pupil at her school. Her union is up in arms about this, saying that the way things are worded at the moment, she could also be prosecuted for having sex with an 18 year old at the school where she works.( And, I would add, surely college professors are teachers ). Where does the general law stand at the moment in the UK - and the USA - with regards to the "age of consent" and sexual relations. I always understood that, in the UK, sixteen was the age of consent i.e. a person could not be prosecuted for having consensual sex with someone 16 and over.