BS: Financial Crisis Explained

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 02:08 PM

Ra-therrrr!   Shakespeare might have been wrong when he said "What's in a name?"

Frank ( who stays away from the Stock Market as if it were the plague )

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: paula t
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 04:48 PM

I just can't wait fot all these financiers to be brought into teaching and allowed to qualify within 6 months. It will be even better when they fastrack them even more so they can be heads in 4 years.............

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 06:11 PM

Hey, Amos' link is a pretty brief article - only 15 pages pasted into my Word (after I cleaned out the 13 pages of extraneous links and other trash).

It is the first clear(?) explanation that I've seen about some of the details of how the "sophisticated new trading packages" actually were supposed to work.

I take the absence of clarity and detail in other articles as an indication that other writers don't understand them any better than the garbage-mongers who were buying and selling them. Mr. Lewis seems to have it reasonably untangled.

Even though it's fairly long, it is an "easy read" if you don't stop to reflect too much about how incredibly stupid (or just phenomenally greedy) the entire market industry was, leading up to the meltdown.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: alanabit
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 12:23 PM

I wish I had time to read it all Amos. It looks very interesting. Here is a quote, allegedly from today's Sydney Morning Herald....


If the global crisis continues, by the end of this year only two banks will be left operational – the Blood Bank and the Sperm Bank. When these two banks merge it would be run by bloody wankers....

It is probably apochryphal, but it made me smile all the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Amos
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 11:47 AM

Suggest you read, Michael Lewis' excellent analysis of the roots of the current financial crisis. The whole CDO fiasco was equivalent to a stock pumping scheme...
Michael Lewis on the roots of the Fiasco.

An interesting and well-writ piece.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: heric
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:14 PM

Oh my goodness! "Tell me you're not ashamed to put this gigantic international financial Krakatoa at the feet of a bunch of poor black people. . . "

CarolC said it was an assertion making the rounds but I never knew about it.

I must asociate with a better crowd than most.

All right, fine then. That changes everything.

I'll never doubt you again CarolC.

Well . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:49 PM

This may be of interest to folks here:

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/10/matt_taibbi_and_byron_york_but.html

Here's an excerpt of this online discussion:

Matt Taibbi and Byron York Butt Heads Over Whether McCain Deserves Blame for the Wall Street Meltdown

"Every day (or close to it) until November 4, a series of writers and thinkers will discuss the election over instant messenger for nymag.com. Today, Rolling Stone's Matt Taibbi and National Review's Byron York argue over the headwinds facing McCain, what Phil Gramm had to do with the financial crisis, and the importance of credit default swaps...

M.T.: You don't think the unregulated CDS market was a major factor in the current crisis? Were you watching when AIG almost went under? Were you watching the Lehman collapse?

B.Y.: I think that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were also major factors. And I believe that many of the problems in the mortgage area can be attributed to the confluence of Democratic and Republican priorities: the Democrats' desire to give mortgages to people, particularly minorities, who could not afford them, and the Republicans' desire to achieve an "ownership society," in part by giving mortgages to people who could not afford them. Again, I believe that if you are suggesting that the financial crisis is a Republican creation, or even more specifically a McCain creation, I think you're on pretty shaky ground.

M.T.: Oh, come on. Tell me you're not ashamed to put this gigantic international financial Krakatoa at the feet of a bunch of poor black people who missed their mortgage payments. The CDS market, this market for credit default swaps that was created in 2000 by Phil Gramm's Commodities Future Modernization Act, this is now a $62 trillion market, up from $900 billion in 2000. That's like five times the size of the holdings in the NYSE. And it's all speculation by Wall Street traders. It's a classic bubble/Ponzi scheme. The effort of people like you to pin this whole thing on minorities, when in fact this whole thing has been caused by greedy traders dealing in unregulated markets, is despicable...

M.T.: What a surprise that you mention Franklin Raines. Do you even know how a CDS works? Can you explain your conception of how these derivatives work? Because I get the feeling you don't understand. Or do you actually think that it was a few tiny homeowner defaults that sank gigantic companies like AIG and Lehman and Bear Stearns? Explain to me how these default swaps work, I'm interested to hear.

Because what we're talking about here is the difference between one homeowner defaulting and forty, four hundred, four thousand traders betting back and forth on the viability of his loan. Which do you think has a bigger effect on the economy?

B.Y.: Are you suggesting that critics of Fannie and Freddie are talking about the default of a single homeowner?

M.T.: No. That is what you call a figure of speech. I'm saying that you're talking about individual homeowners defaulting. But these massive companies aren't going under because of individual homeowner defaults. They're going under because of the myriad derivatives trades that go on in connection with each piece of debt, whether it be a homeowner loan or a corporate bond. I'm still waiting to hear what your idea is of how these trades work. I'm guessing you've never even heard of them.

I mean really. You honestly think a company like AIG tanks because a bunch of minorities couldn't pay off their mortgages?

B.Y.: When you refer to "Phil Gramm's Commodities Future Modernization Act," are you referring to S.3283, co-sponsored by Gramm, along with Senators Tom Harkin and Tim Johnson?

M.T.: In point of fact I'm talking about the 262-page amendment Gramm tacked on to that bill that deregulated the trade of credit default swaps.

Tick tick tick. Hilarious sitting here while you frantically search the Internet to learn about the cause of the financial crisis — in the middle of a live chat interview.

B.Y.: Look, you can keep trying to make this a specifically partisan and specifically Gramm-McCain thing, but it simply isn't. We've gone on for fifteen minutes longer than scheduled, and that's enough. Thanks."

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:22 AM

And the original "Till Death Us Do Part" actually highlighted (if not gave them the idea) the "working class" right wing silent majority wot voted for Thatcher.

British irony ????? Yea we got plenty, but it ain't universal.

And funnily enough it does not work so well on the screen. Hence emoticons.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:14 AM

A lot of people took it seriously who were not involved in trying to have it banned. I know some of them. Another thing to keep in mind - back when All in The Family was on TV, it had two distinctly different viewer demographics. There were the ones who knew that the show was poking fun at Archie Bunker, and there were the ones who didn't think the show was doing that, and they enjoyed the show because they saw its lead character as being just like them.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: cobra
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 03:52 AM

Re Short Peope, Peter said "...the morons who tried to get it banned were probably a minority..."

At a guess, they were a SMALL minority??

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 03:13 AM

I just watched it. So it is still available.

And who says Americans don't do irony? Certainly not Tom Lehrer.
But yea the mass view that holds sway can't encompass irony.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 02:52 AM

Bird and Fortune always make me laugh, mostly for the truth of it.

I have this theory (sorry to be eanestly serious) and you can pick holes in the detail but the concept holds.

All these banks, lending to the next and the next.
Or buying and selling loans/bad debts. Or bonds they don't own.

It takes very little time to seal the deal but there is a lag in transferring monies. As soon as the deal is sealed the security to buy/invest/borrow is immediate.

So there is a bubble of "non money" chasing reality.

UNTIL a blockage appears in the system.

Higher fuel prices, realisation of over-value in the housing market, natural distasters, political unrest, fighting wars. That blockage doesn't have to be total, just painful. And there is a lot of pain out there right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 12:45 AM

Sir Les... ah - but he is SO close to the truth - many Aussies (especially those from 'country' areas!) know so many of those 'unsophisticated' pollies, just like him! :-) Don't forget that I'm a Queenslander, who lived thru the "Uncle Joh" (Qld Premier) times... he wanted to clothe his Special Branch Police in brown shirts man! Not making this up, you know....

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: harpmolly
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:51 PM

Dave the Gnome...I *just* started reading "Making Money" again last night. Unfortunately, it's a little freaking scary how apropos it is. Of course, Pterry has always had a gift for precognitive satire, but this is giving me the heebie-jeebies.

On the plus side, it stars Moist von Lipwig, one of his best characters. :D

On-topic: Another terrific explanation of the crisis, which may have been mentioned elsewhere, was the "Giant Pool of Money" show done by This American Life (they've done some great follow-ups, too, and have a "Planet Money" podcast that's quite intriguing.)

Molly

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:13 AM

The new winner of the Nobel Prize Paul Krugman has been explaining this financial crisis for about 6 years prior to the current emerging meltdown.

The republican elite that shill for the 3 bank owners, are still calling Paul an extremist with radical views whose doom and gloom warnings only contribute to our economic plight.


If you believe them,, please PM me fpr a wonderful inside opportunity to purchase a bridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: GUEST,Jayto
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:23 AM

I just tried to watch it and it says it is no longer available. Lol It must have broke down like the economy or maybe just froze up like the credit markets.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:48 AM

That reaction to "Short People" says it all. Well not quite, for I must remind myself that the morons who tried to get it banned were probably a minority, otherwise they would have succeeded.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 04:01 PM

OK Heric point taken, but it wasn't my intention to finger anyone, just comment on the destruction of our freedom to express ourselves in words of more than one syllable, or use irony and nuance...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 03:53 PM

In the heat of the night was a very controversial film, but not for the reason imagined. It depicted the US South and the racism endemic in the South in a way that really pissed off a lot of people in the South.

But that movie is not a good comparison, because it wasn't ironic. We definitely have no shortage of people who it could be argued are kind of stupid in this country (personally, I don't see how any intelligent person could possibly be racist). But it's not so much stupidity as a culture in which irony is not so much emphasized (and is frequently not understood) that causes the problem I described.

Keep in mind that Randy Newman got a hell of a lot of flak here in the US for his song Short People because a lot of people took that song seriously, and thought he really meant what he was saying in the song about short people.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: heric
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 03:51 PM

She didn't say any one had any bad intention. She didn't say you should have known or anticipated her simple opinion before she politely expressed it. You protest too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 03:43 PM

Foolstroupe...As I've said before, you sir are no "fool"

I agree with you 100% Kath and Kim (from OZ) is a satirical gem, as was Barry Humphreys's portrayal of Sir Les Patterson...funnier than Dame Edna in my opinion.
Satire is a brilliant weapon against "political correctness", an affliction which does more harm to the cause of justice and universal brotherhood than any mad racist.
Little Hawk is correct with his list of stereotypes, but the pedantry of the thought police will always be slithering around, ever watchful for the wrong inflection.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 03:14 PM

Can Americans really be this dumb, Carol C? Even some of them? The ramifications would be interesting. For instance it would mean that in the US "In the Heat of the Night" is a racist film because of the views spouted by the Bill Gillespie (Rod Steiger) character. It would mean we have to treat Americans like children.

I hope I've misunderstood something.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:28 PM

Anyone read Terry Pratchett's 'Making Money'?

Very much along these lines and points out how ludicrous the whole financial markets system is. Well worth a read.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 08:29 AM

This one's about the Northern Rock situation in the UK, but it's very applicable to the situation here in the US and all over the world...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXBcmqwTV9s

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 07:14 AM

I agree about the "Black man sitting on his porch" bit being unfortunate. In the UK, people will undoubtedly know that that part is meant to be ironic, but in the US, that will not be the case. Because Black people are already being scapegoated here in the US by people who are blaming them for the economic meltdown, I don't think it's good to be putting any more fuel on that fire. Of course, the people who made that video had no way of knowing that a year after they made the video, Black people in the US would be scapegoated for the economic meltdown in this country. But it's unfortunate that it's in there.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Peace
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 04:36 AM

"Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: GUEST,heric - PM
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 11:33 AM

Azizi's point is well taken, imho.

The counterpoint that the British allegedly enjoy a certain kind of humor, or that it doesn't matter because the black guy was not the "bad guy," doesn't work.

She's not making a big argument or casting accusations, and neither am I. It's just that she made a valid point (although McCain doesn't factor into it - again imho.)"



IMHO too, heric. Well said.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 02:18 AM

As Little Hawk said ...

To demonstrate just how the yanks stuff things up and don't understand much, the (in)famous Aussie "Kath & Kim" TV show was bought and 'turned into a US TV show'.

As has happened so often before, the TV execs got it wrong, but this time they have excelled themselves - apparently not a single reviewer had a good word to say about it - which IS indeed an accomplishment in itself!

Even though i didn;t like it much, and tried to avoid it when I could, I still think it is one of the 'classics' of Aussie Culture - I should point out that I used to try to avoid "The Adventures of Barry MacKenzie" too - another classic!

But the Yanks have stuffed it - I mean the 'muffin top' pants and exposed G-string underwear (and all the others of the sort of things that were 'sanitized' because they were not 'approved' of) WERE exactly what the whole point was... The whole point was to satirise and parody this sort of behaviour.

The show was always full misuses of wprds due to ignorance - as a famous English Author made the mould ages ago - such as "I want to be effluent" (meaning affluent) - to whic hof course the only appropriate comedic response just has to be - "But - you ARE effluent"... usw...

It's EXACTLY that sort of behaviour that screwed up that show, as is also demonstrated by the sort of conversations that took place above...

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: heric
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 01:26 AM

I knew you guys wouldn't be able to get it. Your nonsense was practically from outer space, LH.

The arrogant hood was instinctively racist, and knew how and would prey upon the weak-minded, the sucker, the Manuel, the bad bet, the learning disabled -- but here the point was made with a black man filling the role. Nothing subtle about it. We get it.

I still don't feel the need to try and win you over to understanding the point beyond that. I do, however, admire Azizi for bothering to politely and succinctly mention it to your attention. She knew full well what would result, yet she still bothers.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 05:20 PM

Sorry, Azizi, I just realised. If you found the reference to the black man in Alabama offensive then I have no right to try and justify it. The moment is past and the offence has been commited. I am sure the sketch had no such intention but maybe by people pointing out that things have different meanings in differnt places then we can eliminate this kind of misunderstanding.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 04:20 PM

I'm really glad we've now made everything alright.


Art

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 02:12 PM

Heh! You have to BE here to get it, Peter K. It works this way: the mere word or the symbolic reference itself offends the listener...regardless of the context it is put in, and regardless of the intention behind it!

Thus the kind of brilliant satire performed in more enlightened times by such as Lenny Bruce or the people who made "A Fish Called Wanda" is simply...OMIGOD...just totally, like, unacceptable in today's fear-ridden North American society where appearances are all that counts, keeping up appearances is all that counts, and be damned with content or meaning!

Remember, for instance, the case of a public offical who got hell for using the word "niggardly" to describe people who were cheap and stingy?

The many people who were outraged by his use of the word were apparently quite unaware of its origins in Scotland and the fact that it has nothing whatsoever to do with Black people, and never did have anything to do with Black people.

But.....superficial appearances and knee jerk reactions are all that count in America. So never analyze anything, never attempt to understand the context, always assume the absolute worst, always interpret it as an attack on YOU and YOURS...and you will have found the American approach to dealing with such thorny social issues. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 01:52 PM

How can knocking racists be racist? I know Americans don't do subtlety, but God Almighty....

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 10:51 AM

Perhaps the most interesting thing about the sketch (apart fromteynfcat that it went out last year, at a time when things in the City were supposed to be basically pretty good) is that it is at one and the same time biting satire, and yet a perfectly accurate explanation of the financial jiggery-pokery that has brought us to this situation. No need to exaggerate - those quotes John Bird gave were genuine.

As for the black man on the porch, the Financial Expert portrayed by John Bird is not just intended to be understood as "an arrogant hood", but also as one who is instinctively racist, as is pretty typical for the species. I'm not sure how far Americans will appreciate that the character is intended to be seen as despicable as well as absurd.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 10:07 AM

Mexican Wall Street tayrist black jew illuminatti neo con lawyers
better keep their heads down.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:20 PM

It was made in England for an English audience. That's a very different cultural situation. They too have kneejerk reactions to specific racial and social issues that arouse deep fear in them, but those are not the same issues which would arouse deep fear in your average American.

Had it been made in the USA by American comedians, they would, of course have made sure not to mention the ethnicity of the hypothetical Black man in Alabama. They would have made him a dumb White redneck instead. It's okay to make fun of dumb White rednecks in America.

For example: Go to "Red State Update" on Youtube for the latest laughs based on the activities and opinions of dumb White rednecks. ;-) Quite funny. But you will certainly NOT find a similar satirical political satire show using stereotyped dumb Native Americans or Blacks. Uh-uh. That would be racist!

There are some people you can safely stereotype or ridicule any time you want in most societies, while there are others who are untouchable. It's imperative to know the rules to how that works in YOUR society or you can get in a shitload of trouble right fast!

In America...just please restrict your stereotyping and ridicule to only the following types and you will be on safe ground:

1. dumb White men
2. dumb married White men especially!
3. liberals (White liberals, I mean)
4. right wingers (White again)
5. lawyers (always a great target!)
6. bankers
7. politicians
8. people in the other political party
9. telemarketers
10. horny young White males

* You ARE allowed to ridicule and stereotype a female too on rare occasions...but ONLY if she is a candidate (like Hillary Clinton or Sarah Palin)...or a rich entertainment business ditz like Britney Spears...or a political advocate for the OTHER party! You can ridicule and stereotype them any time you want.

Otherwise....hands OFF the ladies, you rotten sexists!

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 07:58 PM

What MiziAzizi said... Tho I watched the entire thing and thought it was overall good, I wished they hadn't used the black man in Alabama... Yeah, I'm sure the folks who put this together didn't realize it but it comes off as more than somewhat racist...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 07:35 PM

Lighten up Azizi! What's wrong with having a go at financiers who blame blacks (or, as Greg said, anyone else but themselves) for what's gone wrong? And this sketch owes nothing to McCain-Palin. It went out a year before that ticket came together, while people who should have known better were merrily chanting "Horse-pucky." (I expect DougR still is.)

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 01:54 PM

Well of COURSE its the damn fault of the Black Folks! Unless maybe its the Jews - or maybe the illegal-immigrant Mexicans - or the Tay-Rists??? Or possibly the Illuminati?

The lunatic BuShites need SOMEBODY to scapegoat - as long as it ain't themselves- doesn't really matter who.

And the American Boobocracy'll believe 'em, you bet. What we need is more deregulation and less oversight- the Market'll take care of everything.

Have faith.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 12:44 PM

Berneke is hiding under a rock somewhere. Only Paulson is seen as the frontman for this operation. I wonder if they feel any kind of personal repondsibility?

They don't look like there are sleeping well. Are they scared for the country or themselves?

I wonder what kind of dreams they have... hmmm.... Reporting for CNN this Danail Myes. The Treasury Secretary and SEC chairmen were found dead outside their homes early today.

Identical notes were found near each scene saying only :
This burglar was found breaking into my home and stealing my money.

Thousands of similar notes saying 'This burglar will be found breaking into my home and stealing money'
All the notes found outside the mansions and private Country Clubs of CEO's, CFO's, World Bank and high ranking administration officials. Homeland Security anti terrorist police have taken over the investigation that was started by the FBI. The FBI could not be reached for comment.
For CNN this Daniel Myers

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 12:36 PM

btw

Does George Bush look the slightest bit conerned about the financial crisis to you?

I've seen him 10 times more upset by just seeing Helen Thomas.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 12:25 PM

McCain is running around and "SUSPENDING" his campaign to ruch to the White House to solve the financial crisis...in a vaugely simlar behavior as George Bush did after crawld out of the NEbraska bunker 2 days after 9-11.
THe only thing McCain didn't do was read a upside down book about a goat to 2nd graders.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 12:21 PM

Things not yet mentioned.

Treasurer Henry Paulson formerly of Goldman Sachs has already bailed out AIG TWICE. (this you've heard) but..

AIG gave much of this money to Goldman Sachs for investments GOldman had insured at AIG.

Henry Paulson has appointed the former VP of Goldman Sachs to be in charge of passing out the hundreds of billions of dollars to investment houses, since Neel Kashkari already knows the big gamblers on Wall Street.
Neel Kashkari

Neel also helped model new financial "instuments" that Warren Buffet has called Weapons of Financial Destruction.

This is starting to smell as supicious as the rush to war or the unanswered questions about 9-11 (such as why was GWB's brother in charge of overseeing security at WTC in 2000?) or the Weapons of Mass Destruction are in this shed as pictured from this diagram (as claimed by Colin Powell)

This stinks on many levels.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 11:33 AM

Azizi's point is well taken, imho.

The counterpoint that the British allegedly enjoy a certain kind of humor, or that it doesn't matter because the black guy was not the "bad guy," doesn't work.

She's not making a big argument or casting accusations, and neither am I. It's just that she made a valid point (although McCain doesn't factor into it - again imho.)

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 11:13 AM

Brilliant bit of satire by two masters.

Azizi - Carry on watching. You will see that the only one who is not blamed is the black man on his porch:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 11:12 AM

I understand the point that the comedians were making. However, given the fact that the Republicans here in the USA are using racial "dog whistles" and are also directly saying that this crisis is to a large measure the fault of poor Black people, in my opinion, it's unfortunate that comedian used a Black man in Alabama as his example of a person who received a sub-prime mortgage.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 11:11 AM

There is already one thread like this. Maybe a mudelf would combine them? It would be nice to have these lucid discussions in one place.

Best explanation of what happened yet

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: alanabit
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 11:10 AM

John has said it better than I could. It's having a go at the dodgy bankers rather than the victims. The whole point about the banker is that he is an arrogant hood.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: john f weldon
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:50 AM

The British do not have the same sensitivities to stereotypes as Americans; note the Spanish buffoon Manuel on Fawlty Towers who was not nearly so popular in Spain.

That aside, they were not blaming black people.   They were clearly fingering the lending institutions. The poor person (whatever ethnicity) is also a victim, if lured into unaffordable debt.

An excellent documentary (I believe called MAXED OUT) demonstrates this, and shows a "Special Needs" person being shown how to copy his own name onto a contract for a credit card. The perp here is the lender; the doomed borrower is not at fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:36 AM

Alanabit, I watched the video until shortly after the man acting like a financial consultant talked about the USA sub prime lending situation and mentioned the Black man in Alabama sitting on his porch. He lost me there. I think too many people-in part, urged on by the McCain/Sarah Palin political campaign-are simplifying matters by blaming this on Black folks. Those comments made in jest in that video clip were a turn off for me.

And I want to hasten to say, alanabit, that I don't think that you are the type of person who believes that this crisis is the more the fault of Black people or any other race/ethnicity of people who wanted to be homeowners more than it is the fault of the deregulated mortage lenders who took advantage of poor and working class people.

I feel for the people who are losing their homes and their retirement funds and other savings because of this financial crisis.

That said, I agree that sometimes you have to laugh so that you won't cry.

Subject: RE: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: Beer
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:12 AM

Excellent. Thanks for sharing
Beer (adrien)

Subject: BS: Financial Crisis Explained
From: alanabit
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:06 AM

This is worth watching. It is the best explanation of what is happening to the world's finance system at the moment that I have seen so far. It is virtually exactly what was explained to me by a leading banker six months ago. I would laugh even harder if I knew I was not going to have to help to foot the bill sooner or later....

The Crisis Explained.