Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland

Subject: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 01:50 PM

well , I have been calle things around my short live , but never a
terrorist ??

Mr. Brown the PM of England used the act of law against Terrorist
agains one of Icelandic banks in London , ( LAndsBankinn )

this is a invasion in a Icelandic bank , and act of war .

and now things are gettin worse again our PM and Brown .

how can bad things get worse ??

I realy feel sorry those men . I feel to remind you all that there
were 21 man who runned the outgoin of the banks from Iceland , not the hole nation ,


So I will not be suprised if I hear in the news that
the british embassador has been asked to leave Iceland ?

thats what I am hearing today from Reykjavik ? .

maybe we should ask the Russia to come and defend us and
go out of Nato . who knows ..

What the future show us we never know .

All the best from a Terrorist .

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 01:55 PM

I think that people are tossing the term "terrorist" around a bit too freely these days.

Perhaps the "terrorists" are the ones who got us into this mess -- in Iceland, the US, the UK, and everywhere else -- because they have certainly terrorized people everywhere.

Politicians should shut up and start acting like grown-ups.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 02:00 PM

hee hee yes it is , but its ironic

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 02:02 PM

Unbelievable! I've just read news articles on this. What a crazy time this is!

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 02:07 PM

Skarpi,
Despite the fact that my consorting with a known terrorist may play against me in any future elections in which I may be a candidate, I am proud to call you a friend.
You know, if bush decides to invade Iceland, I may just enlist - we can have one hell of a party.
Live in the "What is" and you will be fine.
Mary

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 02:09 PM

Another thought - there is a British citizen occupying a room in my home. Shall I declare him a hostage and hold him until Iceland is held blame free in the latest terrorism scare?




oh, Micca...bad news, luv...

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 02:11 PM

the newest in the news the british embassador has been called for the mcoverment


as this is written

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 02:15 PM

'Chancellor of the Exchequer Alistair Darling stepped in to protect deposits made by U.K. residents in Reykjavik-based Landsbanki Islands hf, which the government of Iceland seized yesterday.

To protect U.K. economic interests the government has frozen the funds and financial assets held by Landbanksi,'' Stephen Timms, financial secretary to the Treasury, said in Parliament in London today.

The Treasury released a document to Parliament yesterday showing it used sections of the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 to take control of the bank's assets, saying in the statement the bank's collapse may harm the U.K. economy.

``The reason we took this action which was extraordinary action was in order to protect the interest and to try to ensure there was money there for creditors and depositors in the U.K,'' Prime Minister Gordon Brown's spokesman, Michael Ellam, told reporters in London today. ``In the view of the chancellor there was clearly a potential systemic risk, and that is why the action was taken yesterday in relation to depositors'

Oct. 9 Bloomberg.com

"I don't apologize for it," Brown said, adding that Britain was concerned that money had been transferred from the accounts out of London to Iceland a few days ago.

"This is a very unusual situation, where a country has effectively defaulted," he said.


No one has declared 'war' on anyone or called any one a 'Terrorist'
the use of such highly charged language would be risible in any less emotionally charged situation.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 02:19 PM

This is legally interesting in that a Mareva injunction would not run if the failure to repatriate funds would expose the bank to liability in its home jurisdiction.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 02:52 PM

Just get your banks to pay us the money they owe us Skarpi. Mr Brown is in the shit and our councils are about to double our council tax.

I beleive he is going to make you do a year of touring in the UK with your band for nothing, if you don't get it sorted.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 02:58 PM

Ah yes, the nefarious Icelandic terrorists, desperadoes and cutthroats the lot! =))

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 03:03 PM

the Villan , and Emma , if you had listen and if you r so PM had listen to our coverment , then its this :

the Icelandic Coverment will pay back all money to UK monwy
owner in ICEASAVE , nothing else have been said . Mr Darling misunderstood something that was said between him and our PM .

so you all get your money .

Emma go and you r resorce somewhere else than on google
anybody can do that .

use the act of terrorist law , is nothing else than declare war
aginst us .

in the news today a man said our good friendship has been hurt .
and I am afriad it will take long to time to heal .


Just get your banks to pay us the money they owe us Skarpi. Mr Brown is in the shit and our councils are about to double our council tax.
"
I beleive he is going to make you do a year of touring in the UK with your band for nothing, if you don't get it sorted."

Villan , there is nothing I can do , if they had listen to me
we would not been is this shit .

and dont forget , the coverment is only about 12 people
and hole nation of Iceland is 320 thousand . so dont blame this
on me ,.


All the best Skarpi

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 03:27 PM

Gordon Brown has a big Financial Crisis at home in UK that he cant handle
and now the Icelandic banks goes down he can blame it on someone , and thats us , well that poor man I hope he sleeps well .


all the best Skarpi .

P.s the Icelandic people feel sorry for all UK´ers that has suffer
in those financial Crisis , maybe both nation s have the same problem ,

we both have leaders who cant take care of the crisis .

now i useally dont speak about politics , becouse i dont care about them
but this matter tuch my heart .

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Deckman
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 03:55 PM

If this situation wasn't deeply hurting so many millions of people, it would be laughable. This is the stuff that funny movies come from. When the world and nations and VERY IMPORTANT PEOPLE get this stressed ... anything can happen. Nothing would surprise me.

We all might just as well recognise that we NOW are at the start of a ten year, world wide DEPPRESSION. There is little that anyone, or even one nation, can do to change that. I suggest we all plant potatoes, buy extra guitar strings, learn to make homebrew ... and start writing funny songs! CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 04:07 PM

Perhaps if they'd reversed the alphabetic order and called it the "Security, Crime and Anti-terrorism Act 2001" it might have been less liable/amenable to misinterpretation when it gets used in a non-terrorist related context.

I gather there's also a lot of money been put into the Isle of Man and Guernsey, so those governments might find themselves in a similar situation, since they are outside the UK as well.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 04:22 PM

So far, U.K. local authority investments with Iceland's banks total more than 743 million pounds, according to data collected by the BBC(I presume I am 'allowed' to get my 'resources' from our National Broadcasting Corporation?)

Yes this constitutes a seriously 'Financial Crisis at home in UK ' and a very 'personal' one for individuals on fixed pensions/incomes who will find their Council Tax raised and services cut - with the corresponding loss of jobs.

Please desist from using such exaggerated emotive terms like declarations of 'war' skarpi; this freezing of assets in the UK is an extreme measure in extreme circumstances under legislation, as McGrath says, to protect the country from a problem of national 'security' exactly as the Icelandic government sought to first protect their own domestic accounts.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Bee
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 04:31 PM

Emma, I think skarpi's emotive terms are in response to this:

"The Treasury released a document to Parliament yesterday showing it used sections of the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 to take control of the bank's assets, saying in the statement the bank's collapse may harm the U.K. economy."

Was it necessary to use that particular act, I wonder, or was it in fact used to elicit an emotive reaction from the people of the UK, to imply the British government has no culpability?

.....

On the bright side, I heard the other day on the news that, statistically speaking, people live on average eight years longer during a depression. This is put down to a healthier lifestyle forced on people: meals from scratch instead of processed or restaurant, more walking places instead of driving.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 04:48 PM

Yes it probably was Bee I'm afraid in order to restrict UK assets held in this country being transferred back to Iceland.

As McGrath pointed out it is a 'cover-all' act aimed at protecting the 'security' of a nation (financial or otherwise) and as far as the people of the UK are concerned it is an action to simply freeze what assets are still held by UK subsidaries in this country - admittedly a drop in the ocean when compared with the £743 million the UK tax payer will have to find.

Unfortunately as the burden of this shortfall falls upon the local authorities providing services for the elderly, children at risk etc as well as public services like refuse collection etc it's unlikely that it will be any great addition to an increase in life expectancy.

As I pointed out, people on fixed incomes like pensioners already have problems with rising heating costs (we don't have geothermal energy resources here) without the additional burden of increased Council taxes.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 05:19 PM

Why isn't Britain acting to protect its own banks?

Apparently British savers with assets in Icelandic banks had an average of £50,000, so they weren't average Joes. The councils, which were saving with Icelandic banks because of their good rates and reputation for probity, have been hardest hit.

But if Britain's banks were guaranteed by the British government, surely those councils would be saving with them?

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 05:29 PM

ok Thompson, hard to explain this without recourse to on line resources I've been criticised for using.

However local authorities have been encouraged, after catching previous 'colds' to spread their investments (to meet salary costs etc) as widely as possible.

They were also encouraged to 'maximise' their investments, so many have money in the 3 main Icelandic banks up to about 7% of total investments believing that the government would honour such deposits as well as spread around many domestic institutions.

In fact the individual savers with the Icelandic banks were often 'average' citizens who had invested their personal pension life savings.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 05:42 PM

>>This is put down to a healthier lifestyle forced on people: meals from scratch instead of processed or restaurant<<<

Bring in Jamie Oliver

Skarpie
I have just been watching Gordon Brown on about Iceland, and I can't beleive that it has escalated to this level.

I am sure it will all get sorted amicably.

Whatever, you still remain a freind of Mudcat.

Les

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 05:53 PM

yes my friend this will go by there are some men coming from UK to
work with the Icelandic coverment around the weekend .

but get a new PM there this is damage like mine .

all the bst Skarpi .

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 06:00 PM

>>but get a new PM there this is damage <<

As the beatles sang " It won't be long yeah yeah yeah yeah"

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 06:01 PM

Local authorities have a fiduciary duty to maximise their investments for the benefit of their council tax payers. However they must do so with the advice of so called 'investment experts'. So it's not the fault of the councils that their money is where it is/was. They were folowing advice from 'experts'
There is NO obligation on the [part of this government, or any other, to compensate investors, over and above the limits already set, I.E. £50,000 pounds. Just because it's 'our' money, doesn't mean it should be treated any differently from any other monies invested.

XG

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 07:00 PM

And President George is going on television to assure the American people that everything is sound and secure. You can believe him because he's the president of the US and the president of the US is a decent, honest, hard-working, truthful man without a greedy, mean, nasty bone in his body.

Why, it seems like it was only 1929 when Herbert Hoover was saying the same thing and folks in the UK and all over the world felt the same way they do now! And we all know that Hoobert Hever always told the truth just like President George does.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 07:09 PM

So the 'freeze' on assets was not refering to the Iceland shops ;-)

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 07:10 PM

LOL Frank

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 07:47 PM

I'd hate there to be a chip 'n' burger embargo...

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 10:29 PM

goD what a mess

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 02:49 AM

Actually, I was asking why the British government isn't backing its own banks. If the British financial system goes down, it will be a real nuisance for the rest of Europe.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 03:24 AM

what mr brown is doin for his financial system is not eneough
and it could go down in UK
.





Then he could ending in the sama shit as his former friend our PM
is in .

All the best Skarpi

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 03:55 AM

Once you add the police authority and some other bodies that are not local authorities, the amount that UK depositors have that will it seems be at risk of non-recoverability (and the Icelandic government canot effectively guarantee the money since the exposure of the Icelandic banks was about 9 times Iceland's GDP) is I think £946 million.

Brown's reaction is simple - Icelandic banks will not be able to pay UK investors - OK we will freeze the assets here to try to make sure that UK investors are covered.

The problem, it seems to me, is that if one country does this the rest need to follow to defend themselves, so the very international bank lending we need to stabilise banks with short term liabilities will be inhibited.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 04:36 AM

If they would sack that Katona bird and the ropey one out of The Nolans, surely the financial situation would be helped somewhat...

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Bee
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 08:44 AM

Skarpi's not alone in being rather annoyed by the tone Brown has taken, and the title of the act used to do the deed really is getting up a lot of ordinary Icelandic noses. They know criminal business dealings are involved, but that 'Terrorist' designation - ouch!

I regularly cruise a selection of large forums and popular blogs, all of them pretty international as to who they attract, and it's surprising how many Icelanders are participants, considering it is such a small population.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 08:48 AM

As I said earlier, politicians might want to shut up and get to work.

These aren't ordinary times.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 08:59 AM

Strangely enough I'm not very happy with some of the hyperbolic language here either Bee and see that our own 'Little Islander' news rag the Daily Mail is using some of the same very provocative stuff too!

'UK Treasury officials fly out to Iceland to retrieve Britain's billions as Brown declares a 'cold war' by freezing THEIR assets' - 10th Oct.

However, as regards the legislation necessary to stop assets in this country being stripped - to quote from MK Financial Solutions

'The actions and collapse of these banks are going to affect millions of UK citizens.
These people did not have any savings in these banks, but are going to be affected by the reduced services, higher council tax and reduced help from charities.'

If this is not a 'Crime' then it's hard to think what is!

'Icelandic people are suffering like their British counterparts, but maybe its time that they asked some searching questions of their political and business leaders'

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:05 AM

From what I've read, the Icelanders ARE asking hard questions of their "leadership." I really wouldn't want to be a politician in Iceland right now. The people there seem somewhat annoyed about something.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:18 AM

I have met the terrorist and it is US.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 01:47 PM

Bee, a failure of regulation certainly, but I have heard no intelligent voices blaming the British Government for the present chaos. As you have noted yourself, the act that has been used to freeze Icelandic assets deals with more than terrorism. The part of it that has been invoked in this case does NOT concern terrorism. Skarpi is way off beam on that score and needs to calm down.

In fact Skarpi should be asking what Iceland's regulators (if there are any?) were doing while such a tiny economy was spawning a banking system that accumulated capital amounting to many times Iceland's GDP - all underpinned with IOUs. If Skarpi takes a sensible look at what is going on he might notice that Brown's measures - unlike the US bailout fiasco for instance - have attracted very little serious criticism either in the UK, the US or anywhere else, and may yet turn out to have set a direction the rest of the western economies need to follow.

Bravo Emma B for staying with it.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: GUEST,from work
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 01:52 PM

I really wouldn't want to be a politician in Iceland right now. The people there seem somewhat annoyed about something.

when we will rise up again there will be another coverment
and also will we look again to relationship to some country ´s

they will never bee the same . People here are angry very angry
and today they where protesting hearn the parlament .

more later

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: GUEST,from work
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 01:55 PM

Bee, a failure of regulation certainly, but I have heard no intelligent voices blaming the British Government for the present chaos. As you have noted yourself, the act that has been used to freeze Icelandic assets deals with more than terrorism. The part of it that has been invoked in this case does NOT concern terrorism. Skarpi is way off beam on that score and needs to calm down.

In fact Skarpi should be asking what Iceland's regulators (if there are any?) were doing while such a tiny economy was spawning a banking system that accumulated capital amounting to many times Iceland's GDP - all underpinned with IOUs. If Skarpi takes a sensible look at what is going on he might notice that Brown's measures - unlike the US bailout fiasco for instance - have attracted very little serious criticism either in the UK, the US or anywhere else, and may yet turn out to have set a direction the rest of the western economies need to follow.

Bravo Emma B for staying with it.

peter I am gonna answear this when I am home tonight

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 03:50 PM

There's surely no reason that Iceland couldn't be a world financial centre, any more than Switzerland.

The size of the country is little to do with things.

Iceland has been attacked because it's outside the euro, I suspect, and so it's exposed.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 04:54 PM

Our government and all the beurocrats and hangers on waste more than whats owed by Icelend in a year.

I wonder how much it has cost to go in to Iraq (money and lives)?

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Bee
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 05:06 PM

Emma B, I am just reporting what I've been reading. Some Icelanders feel that Brown and British media have labelled all Icelanders terrorists and criminals; while they are quite aware criminality was involved and are plenty angry with their government and the fraudsters, they are hardly to be expected to understand why that specific British act was used. Maybe Mr. Brown could try a little diplomacy, make a little effort to explain, especially given for some Icelanders, there is imperfect grasp of English to consider.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 05:12 PM

Oh look it's relatively simple why the Icelandic banking system was more at risk than Liechtenstein or Switzerland. The Icelandic banks were exposed to liabilities of several times the entire county's GDP.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 07:14 PM

well all , here is something you can read

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/10/iceland-gordonbrown


this is the last comment I will put in here .

all the best Skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: heric
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 07:26 PM

"That may not be the reality of the situation, but its the perception of a rather angry and influential nation."

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 08:17 PM

here is a comment witch someone put on in the guardian UK today .


I hope people in UK don´t believe in everything they read in the press. I just want to clear few things here.
The people responsible for all this mess in Iceland and UK are only 10 to 20 persons. Not all Icelanders! The Icelandic public is getting a much bigger and severe hit from all this. Ofcourse these people responsible should take the blame. And they will!
The Icelandic Government has never said that they are going to walk away from this in UK. Never. Everyone who ownes money in Icesave will get their money and UK will not have to pay. The companies assets are enough to cover almost all of it, the rest will be taken care of. However, what the Government in Iceland said was that they will not save the owners of these banks ie. the 10-20 people responsible. Iceland is a civilized nation and will not run away from its obligations. There are always two sides on all matters. This you should know.
Mr. Darling and Brown are using this to get votes for upcoming elections. And at the same time completely destroying Iceland.
Singer & Friedlander and Kaupthing London are British companies which at the time they where closed by the English Government where doing quite well in all aspects. What was done by Brown was illegal. When they closed the bank they started a fire sale of all Kaupthing (Head company, Icelandic) shares which ended up like it did. Kaupthing the biggest bank in Iceland, and the only one that was going to make it through this, went bankrupt. And the domino effect of that is a catastrophy for all Icelandic economy.
And GB still is going on in the press saying whatever people wants to hear. I am sorry to say but I think the English Government will be held responsible for all the mess it started with this. And there will be filed a case against them for this.
And they where called friends! No wonder England is all messed up with these people controlling it!
Cheers!



Emma how many millions did you loose ??? again .

Never kick some who is already down .



here´s another one , and its not me :>) but its sad how this matter
has gone sad .

I´m a proud Icelander and I just say, I have worked all my live with my soul and pride. Now I feel like the Irish; BOODY ENGLISH The history always repeat it self:


here is another one úff, this is not good .



I think I might have something to say that interest some people about the general public in Iceland right now since I'm Icelandic and live there.

People here are very angry now! our "friends" (NATO) will not help in anyway witch is fine by me but they will barley talk to us and if they do it is to kick us farther down!

What has this done to the public view on NATO?
Let me answer this..
Most people (probably over 75% I know and work with) Say they want to leave NATO and make a defensive pact with our only friends in the world right now Russia!
Russian military base in Iceland would be a disaster for NATO, they would be in Uk's back yard and in site of Usa's missiles defense their building in Poland and other European countries.

This is just what the public think, the diplomats are probably too much cowards to go this far even if this is the peoples wish.

Long live Russia
Greetings from Iceland



well this is what UK was askin for wasent it ?

well Mr Brown I hope you get your votes back , you did on my cost .

Peter you asked me to calm down , I am calm , but I worry the future
I worry that MrBrown started something that wont be stopped
do I want Russia to loan Iceland money ? no I dont
Do I Iceland leave Nato ? no I dont
do I want Russia to have an naval airforce base in keflavík ?
no I dont , would UK be happy with that russian planes
flyin over UK every night ?

I dont think so , and dont tell me that this never can happen
becouse it will , Russia will never loan anything without gettin something instead .

the World picture is and has changed, but I hope I am wrong
I realy do .

I dont hate UK or anyone on there or Holland or anyone in there
and I feel sorry for all of this .

I hope this will be solved in peace , but there are people
here that will not forget what UK did to us when we where
down .

So have a good night sleep and a good future all
all the bst Skarpi Iceland .

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: heric
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 08:26 PM

It does seem quite bizarre that the western nations aren't talking. I would have thought they'd send teams of advisors. Does this not qualify as an IMF matter?

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:10 AM

Seems to me that the lads in the fancy suits are all panicking and running around screaming that the sky is falling. It never occurred to them that their individual greed could bring down the whole world economy and make a terrible worldwide recession - with job losses, home losses, soup lines and mass starvation - inevitable.

And I'd have to say that if I'd had their jobs, it wouldn't have occurred to me either, any more than it *really* occurs to me that driving the dog to the park for a walk makes me personally responsible for global warming.

A huge, unregulated and unstable system has overheated and gone up in flames, and no one knows where the fire extinguishers are kept; they were probably stowed away somewhere in a forgotten cupboard by the Bushes, Thatcher, Blair, Sarcozy, Berlusconi, Giuliani, Greenspan and the rest of the intelligent types who said "Danger of fire? Heavens, no!"

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:19 AM

Incidentally, I hadn't realised that Brown had used 'terrorism' law to freeze Icelandic companies' assets in Britain. I wonder will that be adjudged legal when it goes through the international courts - as it inevitably will? And I wonder if the British taxpayers will end up paying compensation to the Icelandic companies whose assets are frozen?

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 05:07 AM

Heric , yes isi IMF matter .

and Thompson , I can tell you if we get our hand on those stupid
men witch I am told are about 12 of them , we will take them into jail .

they got us into this shit .

also you said ? : I wonder will that be adjudged legal when it goes through the international courts - as it inevitably will? And I wonder if the British taxpayers will end up paying compensation to the Icelandic companies whose assets are frozen?

we´ll see what happen , and further more a nato nation using the against
nato country ??? witch should be " one for all all for one " ?

this is strange

kv Skarpi

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 07:12 AM

Quote
Gordon Brown declared diplomatic war on Iceland.

A treasury delegation flew out amid fresh evidence that the effects of the collapse of three Icelandic banks was wider even than the £1billion known to be at risk in council savings.

The Prime Minister yesterday launched a furious attack on the 'illegal' refusal to pay back billions owed to British investors in the country's failed banks.

He invoked rarely-used anti-terrorism powers to freeze Icelandic assets here as fears grew that vast sums of British cash could be lost.

Private savers, companies, town halls, police authorities and charities have seen up to £20billion frozen after Iceland nationalised its three top banks.

Most private savers should be compensated under UK government guarantees.

But these do not apply to public sector bodies and charities, and it emerged yesterday that more than 100 councils had invested up to £1billion of taxpayers' money in Icelandic banks, lured by high interest rates.

Financial experts said that if the cash is lost for good, council taxes could rise every year for the next 25 years.

The crisis has also hit dozens of charities, which had investments of £230million.

Whitehall sources fear Iceland is now effectively a bankrupt state. It owes the world an astonishing £35billion – £116,000 for every man, woman and child.

End of quote

OK Lets try and be clear about this.

Gordon Brown declared a diplomatic war in an attempt to get back the money owed by Iceland. He involked a rule within the Anti terrorist laws to freeze the assets of a bank in the UK. That doesn't make Iceland terrorists.
Once again the press have a lot to answer for, for once again, escalating issues out of all proportion.

Whilst one must feel great sympathy towards the citizens of Iceland, in fairness you can't blame Britain for trying to get its money back.

I doubt if there isn't any one of us that wouldn't try, by one means or another to get money back that is owed to us, by somebody else.

Personally, I couldn't care less about the people who trade on the stock exchange in order to make big fat juicy profits. I would love it if all those sort of people went bankrupt.

However, we have a situation where honest people,charities and Councils have been afftected by this. So in fairness, the Government of Britain, should do everything in its power, to get that money back, by peaceful means.

The issue is with the Government of Iceland and its banks, not the citizens of Icelend. Hopefully this will all get solved as amicably as is possible.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 07:31 AM

Spot on Villan.

Skarpi, you need to take a pill man. You're getting hot under the collar and raving like a loony for no purpose. The British people do not regard Icelanders as terrorists, the Gov't simply used a convenient piece of UK legislation to hold Icelandic assets in the UK, until we get our money back, that's all. If you lent me some money, and I lent you a guitar, wouldn't you feel it reasonable to hold on to the guitar until I gave you your money back? Same principle applies here with the Bank-Crash scenario.

Cool it man, you're in serious danger of damaging your health, all over a word and an argument fuelled by the needs of irresponsible media to sell copy. :-)

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 07:44 AM

I have to take a pill ?????


are you okei my friend , hee hee do you realy thing I care about
this hahahaha. I got you all .


but That doesn't make Iceland terrorists. no it does not and its not about that villan , its about to activate freezing , you have to activate terrorist law ?? and you should thing about it in the future what
your coverment can do in your own country if they start to use this
when ever they like to and the lawyers in UK are worry about this .


to all of you my friend I am very calm and I do not need any pills
but you do not kick to someone who is already down , do you ???

well greetings from a friend ( I hope )
kv Skarpi

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: GUEST,David Gerard
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 10:16 AM

A lot of people in the UK are appalled at the abuse of "anti-terrorist" laws in this way. I wrote this to commemorate the occasion: http://notnews.today.com/2008/10/11/brown-no-compromise-on-icelandic-terrorism/

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Arnie
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:02 AM

As I may well be personally affected by Icelandic actions, I'm going to get in my pennysworth! My local council, Kent CC has the largest investment of all UK councils in Icelandic banks - £50million. Some of that money is my council tax. If there's no problem with our money, then why did Icelandic banks in London start shipping our money back to Iceland a few days before Brown stepped in with a seizure order? Why not leave our money in the UK as usual? When I see my council tax contribution heading for Iceland, I get worried, as no doubt do the various police authorities and charities who've got their money tied up in Icelandic banks. If, as Skarpi says,the refund of our money is guaranteed, then let's have that in writing and we can all relax safe in the knowledge that our council tax will not rise and our local services will not be cut.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:24 AM

>>If you lent me some money, and I lent you a guitar, wouldn't you feel it reasonable to hold on to the guitar until I gave you your money back?<<

I once did some work for an IT training company as a freelance trainer.
From my memory, it was about £1000. However, it was obvious that I was going to have great difficulties getting paid. So 3 months later, I went to their offices to talk to the manager. He wasn't in. However, there was a top of the range monitor which was very expensive. So I opened the boot of my car, loaded the Monitor in and drove off.
I rang him the next day and told him what I had done. He went bonkers, but I told him that if he delivered the money to me in cash, I would let him have his monitor back.
That afternoon, he came round with the cash and I gave him the monitor back. Needless to say I didn't do anymore work for that company.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:26 AM

"Take a pill" is a bit harsh, guys. Skarpi's Iceland is all but officially bankrupt. He is angry. I too do not understand why Russia is the only country willing to help them out. I understand why Russia has jumped in - there will be Russian military on Icelandic soil. I don't understand why the US, Britain and assorted other NATO nations aren't at least offering financial advisors. Maybe they are behind the scenes. It would be in their own best interests to find a way to safeguard deposits if it is possible.
In a year or two there will be a few "best sellers" to explain the behind the scenes maneuvering. Meantime, as always, the middle class guy who has worked all his life finds himself at risk while the people who caused it all will have to do without a new Mercedes this year.
Greed and Abuse of Power - my synopsis of the bush years.

As to Skarpi - my friend, it is. Do what you can to safeguard yourself and your family. Many others will find themselves in your position before this is over. Our parents managed and we will too. And life will go on without a few of the perks we have enjoyed in the past. Your friends here may disagree with you politically, but they remain friends. And you know that you can count on many of us should you need help.

Now - has anyone else noticed has the price of oil is plummeting? What piece of the puzzle is this?

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:34 AM

So I went to the White House's website to see what georgie had in mind for Iceland and here is what I found DATED OCTOBER 8, 2008:

Leif Erikson Day, 2008
A Proclamation by the President of the United States of America


White House News



On Leif Erikson Day, we remember that son of Iceland and grandson of Norway for his journey to North America, and we celebrate the influential role Nordic Americans have played in our society.

Leif Erikson was among the world's greatest and most daring explorers. More than 1,000 years ago, he led a crew across the Atlantic to North America. Today, the same desire to explore and open new frontiers inspires our citizens and contributes to the strength of our Nation.

America's friendships with Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden are strong, and Nordic Americans have added to our rich cultural diversity and proud ancestry. On this day, we recognize these individuals for their remarkable achievements in all sectors of our society. America is grateful for the many contributions of Nordic Americans, and we continue to draw inspiration from the courage and optimism of the adventurous Leif Erikson.

To honor Leif Erikson and to celebrate our citizens of Nordic American heritage, the Congress, by joint resolution (Public Law 88-566) approved on September 2, 1964, has authorized the President to proclaim October 9 of each year as "Leif Erikson Day."

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim October 9, 2008, as Leif Erikson Day. I call upon all Americans to observe this day with appropriate ceremonies, activities, and programs to honor our rich Nordic-American heritage.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this eighth day of October, in the year of our Lord two thousand eight, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-third.

GEORGE W. BUSH

# # #


SIGH...

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:43 AM

My email to the White House:

Mr. President:
Iceland is all but officially bankrupt and while Russia is offering financial aid (which will mean a Russian military base on Icelandic soil) you offer a proclamation for Leif Erikson Day. Please tell me that more is going on behind the scenes.
Mary Sullivan

Other than putting my self on a "watch list" I suspect this will accomplish nothing. But I tried...

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Bee
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:58 AM

If companies haven't the cash to buy oil at high prices, and cash -strapped people start using less gas and oil, then the price of oil drops - at least that's part of it that i can understand.

The worst of it is heating oil will not go down, and people will have to fill their oil tanks with very costly heat this winter.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:06 PM

The thing that REALLY pisses me off in all of this is that the Pile Of Shite we call the European Community has done sweet F**k All to sort anything out. In fact the main Pro-European Cheerleaders, the Germans, were among the first to jump in with protectionist "Look after ourselves, f**k everyone else" actions.

Funny how it's "Let's all stick together" with those EC tossers when things are working for them yet, the moment it all starts to turn to poo, it's "Every man for himself, F**k you Jack I'm inboard, up ladder!" The EC has cost us billions. Where are those self-seeking, grabbing bastards from Brussels when we really need them?

Oh yes, and you did the right thing, Villan.

Now I'LL take a pill!   :-) :-)

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:07 PM

Self-seeking?????
SELF-SERVING!
:-)

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rumncoke
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:39 PM

I can't see why it matters at all what the title of the act is, just before Lehmans went down they got as much money as they could from their overseas branches and left them high and dry.

When the Icelandic banks were doing the same thing the law was used to stop it.

Councils and charities here are in real trouble, and I am sure that we have not seen the end of the crisis yet - once trust has been broken there is nothing to maintain the global financial system.

What the US started with its subprime mortgages bundled up and sold worldwide is going to change everything, for ever.

Rather than starting to spout rubbish about being labled a terrorist, just because the legislation used in an attempt to protect British interests has anti terrorism in its title, perhaps we could try to commiserate and maybe even find out how the crisis has effected, is effecting and will effect Mudcatters around the world.

My local County Council, Dorset, in the South of England has lost badly - as have numerous other local organisations, charities, businesses, the whole town of Poole is in shock.

One of my neighbours handed back the keys to his house this week, another says she has been told that she will be evicted next Tuesday - many ordinary people are finding themselves in real trouble and it is not the right time to start to wind things up even if the press is doing its best to escallate the problem.

Anne

in Poole, Dorset, England.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:44 PM

NEW NEWS coming , Iceland has agreed to pay all money back to
People in HOLLAND who had their money in ICESAVE . Problem solved .

now why cant UK ? go this way ??

Holland did not act on a terrorist law agains us ?


and now heard on the radio that the UK´ers have an agreement
also with the Icelanders about ICESAVE.

As we have always said from the beginning you wont have to worry
about your money , but you did not get that did you , -UK had to kick
Iceland who was already down , lets hope the 319.999, people will forgive you .


now when all this fuzz is off the table ........



lets have some music .........

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:58 PM

Once I built a raliroad...made it run
Made it run against time
Once I built a railroad
Now it's done
Brother can you spare a dime?



My biggest fear is that our government will do what it always does when money gets tight. They invade somebody. Nothing like jobless men in uniform chucked off to some foreign land while those with connections hide in colleges or jobs critical for the war effort and of course the influx of money from the production of weapons, uniforms and coffins to jump start an economy.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 01:04 PM

Hmm. You think it doesn't matter what the title of the act is, Rumncoke?

Would you extend this to other police behaviour?

As I understand it, the Icelandic banks froze their accounts, which hit British institutions that had money in them.

The British government then froze the assets of *other* Icelandic businesses - all businesses; the people selling nubbly sweaters or travel to Iceland or software or fish or.... whatever else Iceland sells.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 01:13 PM

'Progress made' in Iceland talks

Several Icelandic banks have failed and will not release deposits
Significant progress has been made over frozen UK investments in failed Icelandic banks, say the Treasury and the Icelandic authorities.

Arrangements have been agreed "in principle" for a quick payout to depositers in Landsbanki's closed internet bank Icesave, they said.

The delegations agreed to work closely on the other remaining issues over the coming days, the statement said.

The delegations met "in a friendly atmosphere in Reykjavík", it added.

British investors have roughly £4bn in the Icelandic bank.

Although Chancellor Alistair Darling had promised to compensate investors in full, the first £16,000 of a deposit is meant to be guaranteed by the Icelandic authorities.

It is understood Iceland has now agreed in principle to honour this commitment.

A Treasury delegation is in the Icelandic capital to seek assurances UK savers with money in collapsed Icelandic banks will not lose their deposits.

The group wants to establish a claims procedure for British depositors to get their money back as soon as possible.

Under Iceland's financial regulations, its government is supposed to pay up to £16,000 compensation per account at a total cost of £2.2bn.

The UK government is also pressing for the quick return of almost £1bn of funds invested by councils and other public bodies, including charities.

The Treasury delegation in Reykjavik includes officials from the Bank of England and the Financial Services Authority.


Ha its working.
Skarpi, its all going to work OK and you won't even be a terrorist :-)

My wife who is Dutch, says thank you Icelend.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 01:29 PM

Villan , I may not be a terrorist , the act of Mr Brown is unforgiveble
but I might end up like one .

Why ? you´ll know later .

Mary :
My biggest fear is that our government will do what it always does when money gets tight. They invade somebody.

well you think they want a new star in the flag ?
maybe it will be a question who will be first to take Iceland

US or USSR

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 01:44 PM

Skarpi
You sound as if you condone your countries stealing money from residents of the UK.

With that attitude, you will lose friends.

It is not our fault that you (Iceland) have gone well beyond your means. That doesn't mean that you can blatently steal our money.

Cool it and accept that your Banks have been using other people's money to fund your own economy.

You are still a friend, but your shouting and ranting does not help.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 02:01 PM

condone , No my friend no way . then you are missunder standing me

It is not our fault that you (Iceland) have gone well beyond your means.

mine neither :>(


Villan most of the Icelandic people are in same problem with
money , its the same banks that went over remember .

I feel for those who lost or are loosing money , maybe their livesavin
my mother lost all she had ....... now she has nothing but her clothes.

I can rise up on my feet again , but not all the people can .

so now all those who had money in Icesave will get their money
back , good . but here in Iceland many people wont get it back .

if I have said any thing to hurt someone , then I am sorry .

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 02:04 PM

shouting and ranting does not help.

who´s been shouting ? the UK press and people in UK has been .

but I am gonna leave now , not a word more on this thread from me .
and I am not shure if I ever say anything in here again unless
its about music .

all the best Skarpi

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Megan L
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 02:11 PM

Skarpi my dear true friends cannot be lost and those who are were never realy friends to start of with so not worth mourning thier loss.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 02:17 PM

I have to explain " IRA "

it means

Icelandic Refounding army .

building up Iceland again . and dont worry we dont use guns for that


have good night all

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 02:33 PM

Skarpi
Your thread title says "Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland"

Mr Brown has not declared war on Iceland.

You are not responsible for what your banks and government have done. Niether are we responsible for what our Government does.

We are all in the same boat.

My family and I have no money. We survive by month. If the work dries up for my wife, who is a freelance translator, then we are well and truly in the fertiliser, so much so that we will lose our house and possessions. Its a very thin line that we all tread.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 02:56 PM

Thompson, Arnie, Skarpi, etc, NO anti-terrorist law has been invoked. What part of that can you not understand? The British Government used legislation contained in an act which covers crime, security and the interests of British nationals as well as terrorism. That paprticular part of the act is NOT concerned with terrorism.

In the event of informed opinion suggesting the government abused anti-terrorism laws or otherwise acted illegally, then its actions will almost certainly be subjected to judicial review. From everything I have heard so far, any such judicial review would uphold the government's actions.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 03:41 PM

Peter : to activate frezzing of Icelandics banks in UK
the UK coverment have to activate the Terrorist law , just in the new
few min ago there was an interview with a lawyer in London about this matter , and what he said was rather interested. And Peter this is
far from over unless Mr Brown say something to calm our coverment down
either he have to that or we are looking at polical crisis between two Nato countrys .

well but I said no more words here .


Villan : my head on the thread got you r all intention right ??
       and now the Icelandic PM is angry at MrBrown for his
       words . so this is far from over . but what ever I say or you say
       is not gonna solve anything .

       you live by month by month ,
       I have to live day by day now as you said we are all in the dame boat .

So how about playing some songs ???

thats what I am gonna do . I am gonna start playin in pub in Reykjavik
soon . try to do something to turn my mind away from this .

may god be with us all Skarpi ,

P.s Skál , Slánté , cheers , in one shot of brennivín

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rumncoke
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 05:01 PM

Police behaviour? What have they got to do with this situation? Thompson, as far as I know the police are not involved in this it is purely the control of movement of money across national boundaries that has been prevented.

If the law had been the Nice Teddies and Fluffy Bunnies Money Moving Act of 2001 but still gave the British government powers to prevent money being moved from British controlled banks and financial institutions it would have still have had the same effect - and the Government would have acted for the same reasons.

Because there was 'anti terrorism' in the title people have been making mischief and trying to stir things up with silly 'Ooh you used an anti terrorist law against Iceland!! That means etc etc etc' when of course it means nothing of the sort and is just childish nonsense.

The situation if quite bad enough - in my opinion - without having to deal with hysterical accusations.   

This might actually be the making of Mr Brown. If he can be seen to be doing his utmost to reduce the loss to British charities and local government - even if in the end the money cannot be got back from wherever it has been invested, then he will be seen in a better light than pre crisis.

Anne

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 06:06 PM

As I said earlier, politicians should shut the hell up and get to work.

"...Marat we're poor
And the poor stay poor
Marat don't make
Us wait anymore
We want our rights and we don't care how
We want our revolution now
Why do they have the gold
Why do they have the power
Why why why
Do they have the friends at the top
Why do they have the jobs at the top
We've got nothing
Always had nothing
Nothing but holes and millions of them
Living in holes dying in holes
Holes in our bellies and holes in our clothes
Marat we're poor
And the poor stay poor..."

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 07:18 PM

PEACE PEACE PEACE

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 07:46 PM

I suppose there might have been public relations advantages in freezing the accounts without using this particular act. I believe there are several ways that could have been done. In an emergency governments can do just about anything.

Subject: RE: Mr,Brown declare war on Iceland
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 08:30 PM

Skarpi, I agree. Peace is what is needed and wanted.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 06:11 AM

I agree . Brown is right. he should march in there . And while he's about it, he could get them to swap my microwave.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:38 AM

Oh, and NATO's got sod all to do with this. Iceland should have had more sense than to have joined anyway. We already know that when it comes to lending credibility to US military adventures, Britain has got no sense at all.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:25 AM

Iceland should have had more sense than to have joined anyway.

yes Peter thats true very true .

but at this time it does not matter my friend not at all .

Iceland is gone , and there is nothing left to do than ask IMF
to come and help us clean up the mess and look for a brighter futerue .

if something is not done now , then I mean now today or tomorrow
everthing here is goin to stopp !! and I mean stopp .

so I ask the UK Press to stopp kicking us , we are already down
instead help us , your money is goin be in your acounts and
other matter is being talked about here in Reykjavik .

Help us to be positive , we are all in the together and remeber
this did not start in Iceland , it hit Iceland harder than other countrys .,

Peter what ever we say or do iis not goin to sole this , neither
I shout or you say something .

so I hope all people will go out of this alive , with out war
or bloody fights in sities.

peace to you all
kn Skarpi

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 12:09 PM

Skarpi - we didn't start this, the banks did.

Gordon Brown has acted to protect British institutions and British citizens, exactly as he is required to do under his responsibilities as head of our Government.

No-one, repeat NO-ONE has said that Icelanders are Terrorists - it's you yourself who made that link (presumably provoked by a rabid and notoriously deceitful press who never let the truth get in the way of a good story, and who latched on to a surefire way to sell lots of copy).

No-one, repeat NO-ONE has declared war on Iceland.

What don't you understand about those four, perfectly simple, statements?

Calm down man, you're starting to look like a twerp.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: GUEST,Dazbo at work
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 12:39 PM

Backwoodsman - The legislation used to do this was passed to attack terrorist finances. As such this is a despicable "mission creep" of legislation that makes a mockery of all the so called anti-terrorism laws passed in recent years showing that the government and its agencies will use these laws against their own citizens and others at the drop of a hat. But of courst the innocent have nothing to fear!!!!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 01:01 PM

the head of this thread is to showing people how tings were done

I could have said , Mr Brown used Terrorist law against ICeland ??
or Terrorist law activated to freeze things ??

Dazbo said it all .

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:22 PM

Or

Mr Brown froze Icelands banks Assets to protect investments by UK citizens.

This is actually getting a bit tiring.

Basically Iceland owes at least a billion pounds to Uk citizens and have spent this money inappropriately and so much so, it is debatable if the money will be paid back.

Crooks springs to mind.

Its simple

Iceland pay your debts and stop blaming the UK for insisting on wanting its own money back.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:46 PM

Although there has been criticism of the government's use of the anti-terrorism law, FT.com reports that the human rights group, Liberty, has declined to criticise it, arguing that it seemed to fall under the umbrella of the "security" provisions referred to in the act's title.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:52 PM

They've been asking for it ever since they stopped stocking Chinese Ribs.

Go on Gordon! Give 'em one on the hooter!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:54 PM

It seems to me that the people of Iceland were just as much victims as those of the UK and elsewhere.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:59 PM

That may well be the case Repaire, but we have the right to try and get our money back in whatever way we can.

It is ludicrous for Skarpi to suggest that we think they are terrorists, but if he goes on about that, he will lose some good UK friends.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:28 PM

Sorry but if they are GOOD friends, then Skarpi repeating what is spread all over the front pages of Iceland's newspapers, won't make them go away.
Try looking at it from their point of view, and try thinking how we'd feel if America or some such place did it to us. They are only a small nation, and they feel bullied. A fairly understandable reaction.

XG

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:36 PM

Villan , no one things you are calling us a terrorist ,
its the act of Mr Brown of the Terroists law okei you got it ??

today the Embassy of Iceland got a statement from Mr Brown
about the his act , witch he redraw it and says it only against one bank ( Landsbanki ) and not the others .

now the embassy was also threadin to be blown up by the british
and thats why a armed police man are around it .

now Villan I hope and I know you all get your money but what
would think if someone would hurt someone at the embassy ?

what do you think we would call UK then ??

Villan you can blame me if you want , if you feel better go ahead
now I feel a hostel words from you

It is ludicrous for Skarpi to suggest that we think they are terrorists, but if he goes on about that, he will lose some good UK friends.Crooks springs to mind.


I am not a crook .

And now you lost a friend .


have a good live mate , I hope you get the money back
and I hope UK can through this crisis .

All the best Skarpi

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:37 PM

hostal

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:39 PM

Hostile dammmthose fingers

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 04:09 PM

now the embassy was also threadin to be blown up by the british
and thats why a armed police man are around it .

I can't find any reports to support this. If this is what is being reported in Iceland then it is irresponsible reporting and someone should put a stop to it right away.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 04:11 PM

As I said before, the Uk is only trying to get back what is theirs.


Pay up Iceland and all is OK

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 04:48 PM

BBC News tonight

After a number of sharp exchanges between Gordon Brown and his Icelandic counterpart Geir Haarde, the countries have sought to show they are now working together.

"Delegations of Iceland and the United Kingdom have met in a friendly atmosphere in Reykjavík to discuss issues of mutual interest related to the current financial crisis," the joint statement said.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 04:50 PM

it was on our Tv 19:00 clock and ofcourse not it would look bad enough
" if the story is right " becouse many things are said these days .

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rumncoke
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:00 PM

I think this has gone from untrue to insane.

The Icelandic Embassy must be worth quite a bit, the Government here would never do anything to damage it - if there are police around it they might be guarding it against angry investors, so that it can be sold off to recover some of the debt.

Here the media are doing their best to reasure the majority of investors that their money is safe and all that will be lost is the interest.

The ten o'clock news is about to start on the box - I will go and watch it to see if there is any mention of the embassy.

Anne

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM

Attacking an embassy of ANY country could be considered an act of war.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 06:28 PM

well I hope its a not true story .
but then again there are angry people out there .

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rumncoke
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 07:05 PM

Nothing reported so far - I think it is fairly safe to say that the embassy is not in any danger.

Anne

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:52 PM

The UK's problems are way bigger than just the problems with this one bank, and they will continue to exist after everybody gets their money back from Icesave. It surprises me that the intelligent UK people here in the Mudcat are allowing Brown to distract them from the mistakes of the UK government by scapegoating Iceland.

In my country (the real cause of the problems that are having such a devastating effect on much of the rest of the world), the people responsible are trying to divert our attention away from their culpability by scapegoating poor people.

We shouldn't let them do that. If we do, they will get away with all of it.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: heric
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:19 PM

Nobody is scapegoating Iceland. Their bankers grossly over-leveraged themselves, and paid high interest rates as a smokescreen.

You might place some blame on the UK for getting suckered on promises of high interest without due diligence, but sorry you can't blame the US for this one. (Even skarpi said so on a different thread.)

As for the many things you can blame the US for, I haven't seen any legitimate sources blaming poor people.

Truth of the matter is, this really is a worldwide problem. The very rich banking and investing elite are worldwide, and naturally well represented in the US (which is nearly half the global economy.)

The failure to do due diligence, as a symptom of lazy greed, was an extreme US phenomenon, but it is also worldwide.

Worldwide shysters, wordwide lazy greed, and worldwide government negligence (at best.)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: heric
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:30 PM

(As I understand it - The subprime meltdown is just step one in a domino chain, and the equities crash already exceeds the effect of that, because the investment world knows the further steps are on the way. Any obligation, not just mortgages, can get packaged and sold as a "derivative." This includes bonds and all debt instruments. As the economy contracts, the defaults will escalate tremendously, and the "credit default swaps", or insurance for those defaults, has no real backing to make good on the anticipated default storm.)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:33 PM

The cause of the problems (in every location) is a lack of sufficient regulation. But because of the size of the US economy, when the lack of sufficient regulation causes things to go bad, much of the rest of the world is impacted. And when that happens, the deficiencies in the systems in the other countries then come to the surface. But its because of the size of the US economy that whatever happens here ends up happening to some degree or another in most other places.

I asked JtS if Canada, even despite its intelligent banking regulations, would be negatively impacted by what's happening in the US, and he said that it would because the US is such a big trading partner with Canada. As they say, when the United States sneezes, Canada gets a cold.

I've seen many people at high levels scapgoating poor people here in the US. They're all Republicans trying to run away from their own voting records, though.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 03:12 AM

>>It surprises me that the intelligent UK people here in the Mudcat are allowing Brown to distract them from the mistakes of the UK government by scapegoating Iceland.<<

I don't think so Carol. We are responding to Skarpi's comments about Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland and that we consider Iceland as terrorists.

None of which are true.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 03:39 AM

MR. BROWN HAS NOT, REPEAT NOT, REPEAT AGAIN N-O-T, DECLARED WAR ON ICELAND. WE DO NOT, REPEAT NOT, REPEAT AGAIN N-O-T, REGARD ICELANDERS AS TERRORISTS - THAT'S DOPEY NEWSPAPER-BOLLOCKS, WRITTEN QUITE DELIBERATELY TO WIND UP ICELANDERS AND TO SELL NEWSPAPERS. AND THE SUGGESTION THAT WE ARE PREPARING TO BLOW UP THE ICELANDIC EMBASSY IS NOTHING SHORT OF MORONIC, THE RAVINGS OF A DEMENTED MIND.

Yes, I was shouting because there are some deaf (or stupid) people around here. Now will Joe do us a bleedin' favour and close this stupid thread.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:08 AM

not before they swap my microwave....

(pardon my hilarity! I mean seriously ....Afghanistan, Iraq... like haven't got enough problems. is it likely we'll go to war over someone nicking three quid and a bag of tomatoes?)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:53 AM

It seems to me that The Netherlands was able to get a satisfactory agreement with Iceland for getting peoples' money back to them without having to resort to threats or invoking any drastic measures. From what I've read in this thread from the thread originator, it doesn't look to me like Iceland was unwilling to pay the money back. And yet I keep seeing angry words from UK people in this thread accusing Iceland of wanting to steal the money and even some comments calling the Icelanders crooks.

All this bluster from Brown looks like a politician trying to divert attention away from his own culpability in the problems his country now faces, and using Iceland as his scapegoat. And it looks like a lot of people in the UK are buying it.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 05:10 AM

From what I've read in this thread from the thread originator, it doesn't look to me like Iceland was unwilling to pay the money back.

The thread originator has also said that Britain has declared war on Iceland, that Britain has threatened to bomb the Iceland embassy and that Britain has called the Iceland people terrorists.

He has said this based on what is being reported in Iceland. We have already come to the conclusion that a lot of what is being reported there is untrue.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 05:39 AM

I think the thread originator is being badly misunderstood. I notice that this person's English seems to suffer quite a lot when they are under stress. I think, under the circumstances, this person ought to be given a hell of a lot of slack. Their country is being destroyed (or at least, that's how it looks to the people of that country). None of the rest of us is facing the kind of dire situation that the people of Iceland are facing.

People use word 'war' euphemistically all the time. It's pretty obvious to me that that was how it was used here in this thread, as well as a bit of biting irony. I notice that the people of the UK are not always very good at recognizing irony, themselves, claims to the contrary notwithstanding. One can wage wars that are not military in nature. One can wage economic wars as well. And I think from the perspective of the people of Iceland, it sure feels like the UK is waging a kind of economic war against them. And a war of rhetoric.

And I didn't get the impression that the thread originator said that the government of the UK threatened to bomb the embassy. It looked to me like what was said is that civilians were threatening to bomb the embassy. Civilians make bomb threats all the time, so I don't see anything implausible about the claim that threats were made about bombing the embassy. And considering the inflammatory nature of the rhetoric coming from people like Brown, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that some civilians were angry enough to make such threats.

I think the person who started this thread deserves a lot more charity and kindness than they are receiving from a lot of the people in this thread, a lot more understanding for the situation they find themself in (as well as a lot more benefit of the doubt where the possibility of misunderstanding exists).

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 05:49 AM

And the people of Iceland have good reason to feel that their economy is under siege by people from other countries...

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aR1Zh_j.F83M&refer=home

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/the-north-atlantic-conspiracy/

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Stu
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:02 AM

"Now I feel like the Irish; BOODY ENGLISH The history always repeat it self:"

Another quantum leap forward into the realms of ignorance and misunderstanding.

We're all going to get f*cked over by our governments and money-men, so what's the point in calling each other in this way?

Skarpi - No-one in the UK thinks anyone in Iceland is a terrorist full stop, and there's no war, unless it's against the ordinary people. If I were Icelandic, I'd worry less about foreign governments freezing assets (a pun in here shumwhere, shurley . . .) and more about bringing to book those greed-ridden moron's who put you in this position in the first place.

CarolC - put aside your usual anti-British sentiments for a moment; all our governments and industry bosses are culpable in this mess and people are jumpy because they are very worried about the future, and everyone needs to calm down a bit.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:11 AM

Sorry Carol, but you have just given me the biggest laugh I've had in years.

XG

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:18 AM

There is only one person who started this thread. All a load of bunkum and obviously done to provoke.

We have just responded Carol

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:35 AM

I don't have any anti-British sentiment. I have always felt quite warmly toward the British. I do have a lot of anti-imperialist sentiment, and to the extent that I am involved in a discussion of imperialism, I also include Britain in my criticism (as well as my own country). But that is a different matter entirely.

But I must say, I am very surprised at the extreme lack of compassion that I see being demonstrated by some of the UK people posting in this thread. That is something I did not expect. For some reason, I had gotten the impression that people in the UK were much more empathetic and compassionate than what I am seeing here in this thread. Live and learn, I suppose.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:42 AM

Amen, Villan.
Now I'm out - I've got work to do, helping my company survive the Global Financial Meltdown. Much more sensible and practical than these people with overactive imaginations squawking on about non-existent declarations of war, non-existent accusations of terrorism, non-existent plans for the bombing of embassies etc. Must be some great shit they've got in Iceland.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:47 AM

No I'm not, I'm back - just saw CarolC's post.

Carol, why don't you understand? We're just as fucked-off as Skarpi about the Global Financial Crisis, our banks are in deep shit too, we're going to be taxed up to the gonads to pay for the stuff these crooks have been up to. But we're equally fucked-off by the crap this guy's poured out about declarations of war, accusations of terrorism, threats to bomb embassies.

Lies, lies, damnable lies.

It'd make the Pope swear!

Now I really am out.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:49 AM

This thread is not about compassion or anything like that Carol.

It's about Skarpi, shouting his mouth off about things that are not true.

I personally feel very sorry for anybody who loses out due to this crisis.

However, I have no time for the big fat cats who are getting massive salaries and bonuses and the people who have taken the banks down or made massive profits by manipulating the stock exchange etc etc. At the end of the day, its these people who should be brought to account.

Maybe this thread should be closed as it is offensive to British people.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:53 AM

compassion thread

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:55 AM

Backwoodsman got to it before me

Please can the moderators close this thread as it is offensive to British citizens and is not factual or correct.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:57 AM

Cut Skarpi some slack folks, he's a gentle soul, who speaks from his heart, he doesn't have an ounce of cynicism in his body.
All he knows is what he reads in the newspapers, and sees on Icelandic TV. Now there's as much chance of their TV admitting Iceland might be to blame, as there is of GWB admitting he knew there were no WMD's and he just wanted Iraq's oil.
We all go on the offensive when we are attacked, and Iceland feels under siege at the moment. You see the people there have as much control over their bankers as we do. Not to mention the situation vis-s-vis sub prime in the US.
Also remember that English is not his first language, so he might not always use the correct words.

XG

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 07:10 AM

No, the UK is not just as fucked as Iceland. No Western country is as fucked as Iceland is right now. Iceland is in the process of ceasing to exist as its citizens know it. They face the possibility of having to be reorganized by the IMF, and even possibly losing their currency. Their country is completely bankrupt, and no world markets will accept their currency. They are worse off than all of the other Western countries by orders of magnitude. No other Western country facing the level of disaster that Iceland is facing at this time. And they are a very small country, so they don't have the kinds of resources to help them deal with it that other countries have.

And it is about compassion. Having the compassion to cut someone some slack when their country is at the lowest point it can possibly go.

The Netherlands government was able to work out a way to solve the problem of getting their citizens' money back without all of the heated rhetoric that the government of the UK is throwing around. It's not necessary for the UK government to behave as it has been in order to solve the problem. They are using Iceland as a scapegoat in order to divert attention away from their own culpability, and I am criticizing that on humanitarian grounds.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Paul Burke
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 07:32 AM

When the draconian provisions of the various Terrorism Acts were proposed, spin doctors were out in droves insisting that none of these would be invoked except in cases of real terrorist threat. Here is what the Home Office website says is in the act:

The measures are intended to:

- cut off terrorist funding

- ensure that government departments and agencies can collect and   share information required for countering the terrorist threat

- streamline relevant immigration procedures

- ensure the security of the nuclear and aviation industries

- improve security of dangerous substances that may be targeted/used by terrorists

- extend police powers available to relevant forces

- ensure that we can meet our European obligations in the area of police and judicial co-operation and our international obligations to counter bribery and corruption

Do you see anything there that could justify action against Icelandic economic interests?

The point isn't to do with the Iceland problem; it's that once a measure is on the statute book, all the promises made beforehand go out of the window, because they aren't part of the law, and the measures can be used for anything that is currently useful to the government.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Emma B
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 07:43 AM

Most of the (mis) information appears to have come from Ice News a website based in Iceland which calls itself an "international Nordic news" service.
It is in a blog format.

There is an interesting blog about Norway's rare albino moose under threat etc but all the blogs on the situation between Iceland and the UK seem to emanate from Lenka Vaiglova the 'Online Content Manager, Consulting Department of Nordic eMarketing a PR firm based in Reykjavik .


He writes - Sverrir Haukur Gunnlaugsson, the Ambassador of Iceland in UK has stated "I have been an ambassador and working for the foreign ministry for 38 years and I have never experienced anything like what we went through over the last week,"

"Our phone system nearly had a meltdown and we had to deal with very angry Brits," he added.

Armed police now protects the Icelandic Embassy due to threats that have been made."

In another blog he quotes an interview with an advisor to Margaret Thatcher which said
'Gordon Brown is trying to make this situation "his little Falkland Islands"

Now I accept that the people of Iceland are angry and face an uncertain future but it isn't the UK Government that has created this situation however the PR blogger Lenka Vaiglova wants to spin this for domestic and world consumption

It has NOT been reported either why the British feel so angry that their leading cancer care hospital, childrens' hospices essential services and the pensions of many people are under threat.

Compassion is mutual.

Icelandic folks have not been accused of being Terrorists (even if this is how the PR firm seek to gain the world's sympahy)
The only people against whom this act was implimented and anger directed are the 'criminals' that have abused the savings of inhabitants of both countries.

I also request this divisive thread be closed.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:10 AM

Carol, do NOT misquote me.

I didn't say we're as fucked as Iceland. I said we're just as fucked-off with the situation. Clearly American-"English" doesn't understand the term "fucked-off" - I guess your equivalent woiuld be "pissed". "Fucked-off" = "Pissed" or, as we say it, "Pissed-off". Compre?

I say again - we're as "pissed" (or "pissed-off", or "fucked-off") about the Financial situation as Skarpi and his chums. I have personally seen the pension fund I've saved in for thirty years 'bomb', just as I'm looking to retire in a year or so, so I face a retirement of comparative poverty and hardship, but:-

We did NOT declare war on Iceland
We have NOT accused Icelanders of being terrorists (even though they behaved like terrorists in trying to kill British fishermen plying their trade during the Cod Wars)
We have NOT threatened to bomb their fuckin' embassy.

Anyone who says otherwise is either a bone-head or a plain, simple liar.

That's all Villan and I, and others like us are saying. What don't you understand about that?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rumncoke
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:26 AM

From what has been reported;

when the USA's Lehmans bank went down they extracted money from their foreign branches, leaving their overseas employees with no funds, absolutly nothing.

when the British government saw the Icelandic funds being withdrawn they used the legislation available to stop it,

reasoning - I assume - that it would be far more difficult to get it back into this country than to retain it.

Although there were assurances that individuals would be able to access their money, it gradually became apparent that many organisations, charities and councils had got considerable sums of money in accounts which had - apparently - no guarentees.

My own county council of Dorset has not got the means to pay its employees this week or month unless it obtains permission to use Government money.

That is police, fire, ambulance services, healthcare - some pretty essential people.

The air around the town is one of shock and disbelief - the mood of the people is not angry, that might come later, but at the moment it seems that they can see that they are helpless to do anything but wait to find out what can be salvaged from the mess.

Anne

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:38 AM

Stock markets worldwide are rebounding with the news of the nationalization of Britain's banks. The US exchange opens in about a half hour. We'll see...

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:45 AM

I think they worked all day yesterday and all night on the nationalisation of Britain's banks. Shares in some banks have gone down but that was expected. The FTSE had risen quite a bit this morning. It has fallen back slightly since but is still ahead. The banks have been ordered to stop paying dividends to shareholders until they are in a position to pay back the public purse.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rumncoke
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 09:57 AM

Oh sure the banks will get baled out and a few fat cats will get slapped wrists and new jobs, or decide it is time to retire to spend more time with their money.

Its the small businesses and funds that are going to get squeezed dry.

The evictions are starting already on my street.

Anne

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:23 AM

According to BBC-TV 'Breakfast' programme this morning, the boss of (I think) RBS will 'fall on his sword' today and resign. He will retire (allegedly) on a £580,000 p.a. pension (that's around a million dollars a year, for the US contingent here).

It's a hard life innit?

Meantime my already-insufficient pension fund will be plundered still further as a result of the antics of the Get-Rich-Quick Professional-Gambler-Crooks in banking and the stock market.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:42 AM

The pensions situation is a disgrace but it isn't just pensions that will suffer either. Anybody with endowment mortgages could be in for trouble as well. The few shares that ordinary members of the public own have already plummeted and now some banks have been ordered to pay no dividends on their shares. I also feel sorry for some of the small businesses and those people who are losing their homes.

However not everybody will suffer.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:51 AM

Taken from the link in my previous post Sir Philip Green said yesterday:

"If you're on your way home and you go past a house with a sign outside saying 'half price', you're going to knock on the door, aren't you?"

A rather unfortunate way of putting it considering the number of people losing their homes!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:16 AM

Well I don't suppose he'll be losing his.
Being sensitive and caring doesn't make you a multi-billionaire, does it?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:30 AM

I have already recaptured the frozen Sarah Lee Cakes!

Rejoice!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:46 AM

My posts in this thread are not based on what is being reported in Iceland, but are based on what is being reported here in the US. And here in the US, we are hearing a lot of unnecessarily inflammatory rhetoric from Brown about Iceland.

I have never heard or read the term "fucked-off" in my life. It's not about people in Iceland being angry. It's about the thread originator being traumatized. And I say again, I don't think the words of the person who started this thread should be taken literally. I think they are meant more in a figurative sense. People in the UK are constantly saying that the people of the US are too literal-minded, but I am finding here in this thread that people in the UK are no less literal-minded than those of us here in the US.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:41 PM

We have NOT accused Icelanders of being terrorists (even though they behaved like terrorists in trying to kill British fishermen plying their trade during the Cod Wars)

One Icelander died after British warship crashed into a coastquard ship .he was welding down in engineroom ,


He writes - Sverrir Haukur Gunnlaugsson, the Ambassador of Iceland in UK has stated "I have been an ambassador and working for the foreign ministry for 38 years and I have never experienced anything like what we went through over the last week,"

"Our phone system nearly had a meltdown and we had to deal with very angry Brits," he added.

Armed police now protects the Icelandic Embassy due to threats that have been made." and you say that you re our friends ??


like I said if the story would be true ? read my message , and who is shoutin now ?? and again the head of this thread was to get atention
of the matter , using the law against Iceland, how do you feel
when they start use this against your self .

I can tell you that we had enough problem here at home , but when
brown used the law against us to freeze us , the problem got just bigger , and we were angry , but now we are more angry .



all the best , Skarpi

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:49 PM

and again , no you did not start war on Iceland

but you used a Terrorist law against us , do you get that ?
thats what this is all about .

this is something you dont do to a friendly nation .

why did not the coverment of Holland use the same law against us ?
we solved that problem in in US .

but Mr Brown had to go the hard way did he not ? just to get more
votes .

why did he not just take up the bloody phone and called our PM ?

what I write comes from my heart and what I see in the TV news
in Iceland .

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 03:02 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/13/iceland-banking

a view from Iceland in guardian

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:12 PM

Why don't you just leave it alone now, Skarpi?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:28 PM

Sure I will , no problem .

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:29 PM

Thank you!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 05:19 PM

You are welcome .

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:18 AM

Skarpi, I apologise for the 'Cod War' comment - it was over a long time ago and we and Iceland have been good friends ever since.

I was simply trying to show you that any government will take strong measures when it feels its security (and I include financial security) is being put at risk by another country's actions, just as yours did when it felt that British fishermen were putting your own fishing industry in jeopardy.

And eanjay's right, time to let it go.

Pax
J

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 04:06 PM

No hard feeling s .
All the best Skarpi

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:10 PM

CarolC, if you knew skarpi - "the person who started this thread," as you quaintly call him - you would know that he doesn't need you to protect him or interpret his words!

It seems that Brown's comments about Iceland must have been more prominently reported in the US than in the UK, where iceland has been far from the top of the agenda. The Iceland dimension certainly does not have the legs to constitute any kind of distraction from "Brown's bluster."

And Brown's bluster turns out to have shown the US and most of Europe a way forward out of the mess. Neither Brown nor most other politicians should be taking much of the blame this time. The real problem is a failure of capitalism, or at the very least a failure of free markets. But if there was one unequivocal political error it was Hank Paulson's colossal blunder in allowing Lehman Brothers to go under.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:19 PM

I have met him. I don't know him well, but the time I spent in his company is the reason I felt the need to provide verbal support here in this thread. He is a kind and gentle soul who hasn't got a mean bone in his body, and he deserves to be cut some slack under the circumstances.

I have to refer to him quaintly because I am not allowed to directly address anyone here in the Mudcat. In fact, I am skating the edge even just by saying "he" to refer to another poster, since I am not allowed to directly reference other posters either.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:14 AM

This whole thread is a classic example of how nationalism is used to turn working people against each other, taking their attention off the profit grabs of greedy currency dealers.

One of the links provided further up is to a New York Times blog suggesting that the small Icelandic economy is being targeted by (named) dealers, trying to make it crash so they can scoop up the profit.

It also suggests that this tactic was used in earlier economic crises, such as the Hong Kong financial crisis of 1917-8 and a similar attempt at the same time on the Australian dollar.

British people turning on Icelanders is like the dogs with cans tied to their tails turning on each other, while their tormentors laugh from the sidelines.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:18 AM

My God, the Taleban have taken over Mudcat now. Sorry CarolC, I had no idea such lunacies were in operation. So I suppose when you say "He is a kind and gentle soul," that is code for "Skarpi is one mean bastard!" (Which is the real truth of course. Just try getting that bottle of brennivín out of his hands....)

Just a grammatical detail, but a third-party reference is not the same as addressing someone directly. Maybe you are allowed that much, on a legalistic interpretation of the Contraining Order?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:21 AM

None of it makes any sense to me, and I don't try to make any sense of it. It's pretty crazy from my perspective. I just try to stay out of trouble as best I can.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:14 AM

Maybe our sympathy should be going to you then, CarolC :)

LOL (or we'd all cry!).

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:00 AM

Perhaps it will help when they know that Britain is lending Iceland
$225 000 000?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:17 AM

Iceland's central bank cut official interest rates by 3.5 percentage points today.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:22 AM

Not to add fuel to the flames here, but just to attempt to clarify the feelings in Iceland vis-a-vis Britain, I attach this


XG

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:32 AM

We were trying to move on from all of that and look at the positive moves that are now happening.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:56 AM

I know, but some people resented it when they were told what was being said, and even tried to blame it on Skarpi. I am just showing that he wasn't the originator of the terms he used in his posts.

XG

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 10:07 AM

That point was made and acknowledged a couple of days ago. We really need some positive input to this thread now. Keep going on about it does not help Skarpi's cause.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 10:14 AM

Sorry, but I disagree regarding the clarification, otherwise I would NOT have posted the link.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 10:15 AM

The loans offered to Iceland (not just from Britain) and the interest rate cuts hopefully will improve the situation there. Let's hope that as time goes by we hear some encouraging news of improvement for everybody.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 10:16 AM

I am quite happy to disagree with you.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 10:23 AM

Oh good ;)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: heric
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:27 PM

That's a good line! I hereby appropriate it for my use alone in the US. Do not attempt to take it back to the UK.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: skarpi
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:42 PM

hallo all , I ask you all to let go of this , from now the politcs will
handle this not we , what ever we say or do will not help or sole anything .

today this happen : Icelandic covement ( not me ) complaned
to NATO headoffice about British coverment behavior .

Icelandic Coverment are/have hired lawyers to go agains the British Coverment ( not me ) becouse they took down (Kaupþing Bank witch was in good health
he was the only bank who would have lived through this crisis they say( not me )

And Russia : they are asking about millitery base in Iceland at least they want to talk about that , instead for a loan , great balls of fire . Nato should be happy about that
I am not .

again I ask you all to let go .I will not write more message in this
thread , for me it have ended .

All the best Skarpi Iceland .

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:02 PM

I would be very worried if Russia got its missiles in Iceland, both for you and us

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:20 PM

The enemy here isn't the people of Iceland. They didn't get either the British or themselves (or the rest of Europe, or the rest of the world) into this.

The people to look coldly at are the banks, for their reckless behaviour, and the currency dealers, for their... I don't have any languge to express it.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:42 PM

I would describe that kind of predatory behavior against economies as a kind of organized crime, myself.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:18 PM

I think it is too, Carol. But banks will be Banks. They ARE in the business of 'making money', not Being Our Friends.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:12 AM

Carol, Sorcha - it's not predatory behaviour or organised crime, it's Business, B-I-Z-N-E-S-S, fuelled by the GREED OF PEOPLE (sorry, not shouting, just don't know much about html so can't italicise). Not just the fat-cats at the top with their multi-million-dollar bonuses, but all the way down to you and me (and maybe even further down). It's what Capitalism and Conservatism rely on - the desire to own things, pile up cash, have a big house, go on expensive holidays, look 'better' than our neighbour, etc., etc.. And it will never change because, at the bottom of them, most people are greedy and want more and more for less and less.

It's a version of pyramid-selling at its worst that's done the damage, and our Global-Get-Rich-Quick society went for it all the way.

And any national leader worth his salt should, and will, take steps to protect his citizens, even though it may disadvantage the citizens of other countries temporarily. Brown was perfectly entitled to take steps to protect British interests, and the Icelandic Premier is right to fight back. Time will determine the outcome, one way or the other.

Charity begins at home.

All of the above IMHO, as always.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:48 AM

Geez, all this time I had a pile of cash, a big house, expensive holidays, and I've been looking better than my neighbor and I didn't even know it? That just sucks!


italics = < plus i plus > plus (the text) plus < plus / plus i plus >

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:00 AM

Why thank you Carol!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:02 AM

And thank you Eanjay - got your PMs. Roger on that!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:24 AM

Now we want to see some bold and some scrolling :)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:28 AM

Don't push it, pal!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:29 AM

Oops! Forgot to smile! :-)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:30 AM

LOL :-)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:46 AM

Oooh! Ahhh! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:51 AM

Wow!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:57 AM

Anyone who wants to know how to do that can do what I did... steal it. (Using the view page source function.)

;-)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 09:06 AM

Thanks Carol, I didn't even know it existed!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:05 PM

Show-off Alert! Show-off Alert! LOL!

Learning to italicise and embolden is quite sufficient for one day, for a Grumpy Old Man like me!

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:10 PM

;-)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:11 PM

If Joe Offer sees that he will slap your wrist. Doesn't that stuff slow down the forum?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:12 PM

I'm already so slow I'm virtually in reverse! :-)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:15 PM

Is that another one of those rules they don't tell you about until after you've broken it?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:58 PM

Ah well can't let Carol take all the glory :-)



Aston Villa To win the FA Cup

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:03 PM

No. It's in the FAQs.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:13 PM

No it doesn't. I just now checked the FAQ, and it suggests that people ought to try using the marquee HTML, which is what I put in my bouncy post. It does not say anywhere that people are not supposed to use it.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:15 PM

Sorry - I was thinking of something else to do with praphics and photos.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:17 PM

No hot linking probably.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:28 PM

>>It does not say anywhere that people are not supposed to use it<<

Thats good then :-)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:41 PM

Skarpi :-) CarolC :-) Backwoodsman :-)Villan :-)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:52 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 03:17 AM

Villa for The Cup indeed! Not in our lifetime, methinks! :-) :-)
Please stop all the colour stuff, my feelings of ineptitude and insecurity are creeping back. :-)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 05:12 AM

There is an HTML practice thread guys.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 07:13 AM

200 (nothing else useful to say at this stage on this thread in this state of affairs)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 07:41 AM

Were you practicing there Richard :-)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:41 AM

If Richard was really clever, he'd have done it in emboldened italics, in colour, with scrolling! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 03:40 AM

Dosent Father Christmas live in Iceland?
can he still afford to pay elves etc, and get foods for rudolf?
will we still get presents on time?

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 07:17 AM

I thought he lives in Lapland, jOhn.
If he doesn't, there must be a lot of pissed-off people who have taken those pre-Christmas flights to Lapland to see him! :-)

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 07:39 AM

Just intercepted this message:

Skarpi,

Stop hiding in the freezer cabinet. Me and the lads are coming round to see you, and you better pay up!
If you don't, it won't be pleasant.
'Pretty Boy' Peter Mandelson will hit you with his handbag, and then 'Big' John Prescott (motto: Mines a large one!) will sit on you.

These boys don't mess about! (well they do.... but they've promised not to, on this occasion)

You can keep the bag of tomatoes, but we need the three quid.

signed
Gordon 'Switchblade' Brown - you can can call me Switchblade

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:12 AM

""Backwoodsman - The legislation used to do this was passed to attack terrorist finances. As such this is a despicable "mission creep" of legislation that makes a mockery of all the so called anti-terrorism laws passed in recent years showing that the government and its agencies will use these laws against their own citizens and others at the drop of a hat. But of courst the innocent have nothing to fear!!!!""

With all due respect, Dazbo, that is a seriously slanted half truth, and is the major cause of Skarpi's anger.

The legislation referred to was enacted to make it possible for the government of the UK to freeze, and/or seize funds and property acquired through, or used to finance both terrorism, AND ORGANISED CRIME.

Since funds were being swiftly transferred out of the reach of the UK government, it was reasonable to act under this legislation to keep said funds in place while negotiating a resolution. The terrorist aspect of the legislation did not enter into the action taken, but was used by gutter journalists to stir up a reaction to sell newspapers.

Skarpi, don't let this media nonsense colour your opinion of us, or lead to anti British feeling.

Don't forget that Gordon Brown DOES NOT speak for us. We didn't elect him to the post of Prime Minister, and I pray to God we won't do so at the next election.

He is desperately trying to cover up his inadequacies with bluster, but few, if any, of us are fooled.

This WILL get sorted out, in spite of Brown.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: GUEST,Justin U
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:42 AM

I went to see Chubby Brown a few weeks ago. As soon as he came on stage I started shouting "You fat bastard! You fat bastard!"
Then I was told by security that that sort of behaviour wasn't tolerated at the Labour party conference.

Subject: RE: Mr. Brown declares war on Iceland
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 07:07 AM

"I went to see Chubby Brown a few weeks ago".
Well that explains a lot.