Famous People in Children's Rhymes

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Ged Fox
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 09:04 AM

Guest above, & a few years ago, wrote "Here's one I learned at my mother's knee. Don't know if it's a children's rhyme or a grown-ups one. It probably dates from 1945 or so. Although I can sing it I can't remember the name of the original tune - it'll come to me soon!

Vote, vote, vote for Winston Churchill
Throw all the others in the dock.
Winston is our man, we'll have him if we can
And we'll throw all the others in the dock.
(By the cock!) "

It went to the tune of "Tramp tramp tramp, the boys are marching."
My mother mentioned once that, when she was at school (in Portsmouth, UK) in the early forties, election day was always a school holiday. Groups of children would spend the day going round arm-in-arm singing, at least, the first line of the song, but using the names of the ellection candidates. They weren't partisan, but would sing the name of one candidate for a while, then go on to the next.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Mo the caller
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 03:48 AM

At the top of the thread someone gave a name to the Duke of York.
When I googled it I got the answer that it was applied to whichever brass hat had recently bungled a campaign (and there were several).
The 'Vote, vote, vote' rhyme was a skipping rhyme - it may have had the names of the latest politicians, but to play it the names of skippers were used. Group skipping with a long rope -

Vote vote vote for Mary Barnet (Mary skips)
In comes Janet at the door (J jumps in and they both skip)
Janet is the one, and she likes a bit of fun
So we won't vote for Mary any more
Shut the door (Mary jumps out, J skips alone)

I really can't remember whether that rhyme was used in the 50s when I was at school in London, or one that my mother told me.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 04:43 PM

Greetings!

I'm posting here to announce that I've added this new page on my cultural website Cocojams:

http://cocojams.com/content/famous-people-fictitious-characters-playground-rhymes "Famous People & Fictitious Characters in Playground Rhymes".

A few of the examples on that page are from this Mudcat thread, and many other, but not all the examples on that Cocojams page are from other Mudcat discussion threads. A hyperlink to this page and a hyperlink specifically to any other "internet source page" is included along with other citations.

I include rhyme examples from other websites to increase awareness about these rhymes, to facilitate the identification of these rhymes, and to help facilitate additional folkloric research of those rhymes and of other contemporary English language playground rhymes.

Thanks again and best wishes!

Azizi Powell

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Cool Beans
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 12:59 PM

Azizi,
There were no motions accompanying the song about King George; we just sang it.
CB

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 08:07 AM

Thanks MtheGM and Jim Carroll for posting to this thread.

MtheGM, I'm quite familiar with the works of Peter & Iona Opie and I consider their books to be essential resources for people interested in English language children's playgeround rhymes.

However, my purpose in starting this thread was to ascertain which children's playground rhymes and song parodies Mudcat members and guests remembered from their childhood and youth, and not which rhyme examples have already been included in any books. Of course, those two categories will often overlap. However, it's possible that "new" rhymes might be posted. And, from my past experiences on Mudcat and other websites such as my own site, I believe that it's probable that different variants of already documented rhymes will emerge via such Internet postings.

I find these threads on children's rhymes to be interesting reading from a folkloric standpoint, and enjoyable reading from a nostalgic standpoint. And, as I've just mentioned, I think that these threads can and often do add to the material (examples and comment/textual analysis etc) which is already available in off-line publications.

And-as a means of full disclosure- let me reiterate what I have written on several previous Mudcat threads: I'm interested in including some of the examples posted on these types of Mudcat threads in books that I'm planning to edit and self-publish. For the purpose of guests and those Mudcat members who aren't aware of this, as per my agreement with Max, the owner and founder of this site, I can repost examples & comments from guests on various pages of my website http://www.cocojams.com/ and in any books or other printed work that I edit or write. However, I must receive prior written permission via private messages in order to include any posts from active Mudcat members. If I understand my agreement with Max correctly, the use of posts from inactive members is a gray area. Generally speaking, if the posts are more than 5 years old, I've been including them in my rough drafts of these projected books.

One category that I'm focusing on is contemporary (1950s to date) English language playground rhymes and children's song parodies* that mention the name of a famous person (such as Abe Lincoln or Shirley Temple) and fictitious characters (such as Batman & Robin or Frankenstein). If any Mudcat member wishes to discuss these projects further with me, please feel free to pm me.

* I agree with you Jim that "It's often difficult to spot which is a children's rhyme and which an adults"...My definition of "children's parodies" are those songs/rhymes that have no known author and which children, teens, or adults, indicate that they sing or have sung as a child or as a teen, or that they know or remember other children/teens singing.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 04:01 AM

It's often difficult to spot which is a children's rhyme and which an adults, as parody is often used as a political device for supporting and debunking famous figures.
There is one about Abe Lincoln based on the old ballad of Lord Lovel which begins:

1 Abe Lincoln stood at the White House Gate
Combing his milk-white steed,
When along came Lady Lizzie Tod,
Wishing her lover good speed, speed, speed,
Wishing her lover good speed.

2 Where are you going, Abe Lincoln?' she said,
'Where are you going?' said she;
'I'm going, my dearest Lizzie Tod,
O'er Richmond for to see, see, see,
O'er Richmond for to see '.

3 'When will you be back, Abe Lincoln?' she said,
'When will you be back?' said she.
'In sixty or ninety days at the most,
'I'll return to my Lady Lizzie, -zie, -zie,
I'll return to my Lady Lizzie '.

4 He hadn't been gone more than one or two days,
O'er Richmond for to see,
When back to the White House Gate he came,
All tattered and torn was he, he, he,
All tattered and torn was he.

5 'How do you flourish, Abe Lincoln?' she said,
'How do you flourish,?' said she.
'The rebels have killed my old Scoch horse,
And I have skedaddled, -dee, -dee, -dee, -dee,
And I have skedaddled, -dee, -dee.

6 Abe Lincoln rode his Burnside horse
Which started at the rebel's fire.
He threw the baboon heels over head,
And there he stuck tight in the mire, -ire, -ire,
And there he stuck tight in the mire.

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 12:01 AM

Other essential refs which seem to have been overlooked on this thread — the works of Peter & Iona Opie, 1950s-60s; esp The Lore & Language of Schoolchildren [excellent on all the children's variants on Disney's Davy Crockett song of 1956, also inexplicably overlooked], Children's Games In Street & Playground, Oxford Dict of Nursery Rhymes - all of which replete with examples of subject of this thread...

One which we haven't had so far which comes to mind is: 1 2 3 a-lairie, I saw Wallace Beery, Sitting on his bumbaleery, Kissing Shirley Temple [skipping or ball bouncing]. Also the Redwing variants about the sun shining bright on Charlie Chaplin...

Re Grand Old Duke of York: people in Barnet, North London, including my sister at one time, think it much older, relating to Barnet Hill & the Duke of York who fought the Battle of Barnet 1471.

The King George whose queen was called Mary, refd in above, was George V, 1910-36, grandfather of present Queen Elizabeth II.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 11:53 PM

Thanks for sharing that example and demographical information, Cool Beans!

Were there any movements done while singing this song (like jumping rope or doing partner handclaps)?

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Cool Beans
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 10:27 PM

King George, he had a date,
King George, he stayed out late.
He was the king.
Queen Mary, she got sore,
She waited at the door,
King George came home at four,
God save the king.
---

We sang this on the playground of P.S. 249, Brooklyn NY USA in the early 1950s. It must have originated in Britain and hopped the pond. We sang it to the tune of My Country Tis of Thee, having no idea there was such a song (same tune) as God Save the King/Queen.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 06:36 PM

Somehow I neglected to thank GUEST,superstar for sharing this rhyme with us. If you happen to read this comment, please accept my apology for the length of time it has taken for me to acknowledge your contribution to this thread.

Thanks!

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,superstar
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 02:50 PM

heres one I know and I am only 10 years


Elvis persly thinks girls are sexy
sitting on the back seat drinking pepsi
went to the movies saw some big boobies
nearly fainted away

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 11:16 AM

Here's an example that I found on another Mudcat thread:

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jingle Bells, Batman Smells
From: GUEST,Tipsy Turvy - PM
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 04:50 AM

I remember this one from primary school:

Joy to the World,
John Howards dead,
We barbecued his head.
He didn't pay his taxes,
We chopped him up with axes,
Joy to the World John Howards dead.

I went to his coffin,
I went to his grave.
Everyone threw flowers,
I threw a grenade.
The coffin went up,
the coffin came down,
the coffin went splat all over the ground
Joy to the World John Howards dead.

I looked in his coffin,
He wasn't quite dead.
So I pulled out a bazooka and blew off his head
Joy to the World John Howards dead.

thread.cfm?threadid=41750&messages=66

**

John Howard was the 25th Prime Minister of Australia from 11 March 1996 to 3 December 2007.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Joe_F
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:42 PM

Azizi: In my family, the Nebuchadnezzar rhyme was merely

Nebuchadnezzar, the king of the Jews,
Pulled off his stockings, but left on his shoes.

The 1936 election, these days, is chiefly remembered because a poll conducted by a magazine, the Literary Digest, predicted a landslide for Landon. Its sample of voters was chosen from telephone directories. In 1936, there were a lot of people who couldn't afford a telephone, and they mostly voted for FDR. A classic example of the danger of biased sampling. Folklore has it that the Literary Digest was so embarrassed that it went out of business, but I rather doubt that.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:00 PM

Aha!!

It appears that the UK Christian Home School collection of rhymes that I just cited receives rhymes from individuals in various nations {as per one comment about another rhyme that comes from Brazil}. That would explain the presence of a jump rope rhyme about Landon & Rooselvelt on a UK jump rope rhyme page.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 07:51 PM

Here's an example of a jump rope rhyme that mentions two famous people *

Landon in the White House
Waiting to be elected.
Rosevelt in the garbage can,
Waiting to be collected.

http://www.homeschool.co.uk/resource/jump-rope/jump-rope-rhymes.html
Christian Home Education- Jump Rope Rhymes

-snip-

* I figured that "Rooselvelt" referred to one of the US Presidents. But I wasn't sure which one or who Landon was. And so I looked up that name and got the answer to both questions. See this excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alf_Landon

"Alfred "Alf" Mossman Landon (September 9, 1887 – October 12, 1987) was an American Republican politician, who served as Governor of Kansas from 1933–1937. He was best known as Republican Presidential Nominee, defeated in a landslide by Franklin D. Roosevelt in the 1936 presidential election."

-snip-

It's clear that this jump rope rhyme was composed by someone who favored Landon and not Rooselvelt for president. Did a child make up this rhyme? There's no way to tell. But it fits the broad definition of a children's rhyme since children were known to chant it.

It also interesting that this example was part of a collection of UK jump rope rhymes though the politicians mentioned are Americans.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 12:17 PM

Here's a children's rhyme that mentions a real person from a looong time ago:


Nebuchadnezzar the King of the Jews
Sold his wife for a pair of shoes
When the shoes began to pinch
Nebuchadnezzar began to flinch
When the shoes began to wear
Nebuchadnezzar began to swear
When the shoes began to leak
Nebuchadnezzar began to squeak

When the shoes began to crack
Nebuchadnezzar said "Take them back!"
The moral of this story's true
If your wife you want to lose
Don't sell her for a pair of shoes!

http://www.odps.org/glossword/index.php?a=term&d=3&t=1013
Seedy Songs and Rotten Rhymes - the poetry of the playground.

**
Nebuchadnezzar II (c 630-562 BC) was the Babylonian ruler mentioned in the biblical Book of Daniel, who conquered Aram and Judah . There were other Babylonian rulers with that name. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebuchadnezzar

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 12:10 PM

Ugh! What I said was "You sure must like Pepsi".

Now that was an important correction.

Okay.

Carry on.

:o)

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 12:07 PM

I meant to share this story with that last example:

Three years ago I took my 10 and 11 year old nieces, their two girlfriends, and their 6 year old brother to a pizza shop. In addition to their pizza, I asked them what drink they would like to order. One after another each girl said "Pepsi" and my nephew looked at the girls and said the same thing. I said something like "Wow, you sure most like Pepsi". And one of my nieces said "It's because of that rhyme". I said "What rhyme?" {They already knew about my interest in children's rhymes}. And that's when I first heard that "girls are sexy/drinkin pepsi" line, although the example they shared was very different from this one and didn't mention Elvis Presley or any other famous person.

For the record, the rhyme that the girls recited in unison that day {and my nephew and I listened to} was similar to this one without the addition of the "Fudge fudge call the judge" independent rhyme that begins here with the "Wrap it up in toilet paper" phrase.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: KLC - PM
Date: 11 Jul 08 - 11:43 AM

My mother your mother live across the street 18, 19 blueberry street every time when it is night the kids come out and start to fight: Boys are rotten made outta cotton, girls are sexy made out of pepsi, boys go to jupiter to get more stupider, girls go to college to get more knowledge. Wrap it up in toilet paper, send it down the escalator. 1st floor stop by your mama, 2nd floor stop by your papa, 3rd floor said you better watch out for the s s the t t the o o the p p spellssss stop. (And they pause to see who moves first)

thread.cfm?threadid=63097

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:54 AM

Here's another one from that streetplay.com discussion board:

any one rember this one

i went to a shop to by some bread bread bread
they asked my name and this is what i said
Elvis Presly
girls are sexy
sitting in the back seat
drinkin pepsi
pinchin boobies
at the movies
da da da CHEESCAKE
-By Anonymous on Sunday, May 7, 2000 - 02:15 am:

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:33 AM

Here's another example from that same website:



Another game is where you say "I won a _____ (whatever) such as:
First person: I won a bicycle
Second person: I two a bicycle
first person: I three a bicycle
second: I four a bicycle
first: I five a bicycle
second: I six a bicycle
first: I seven a bicycle
second: I eight a bicycle
first person: You ATE a bicycle?!?!
This works best with an 'unsuspecting' person, hehe...

My sister made one up where you don't stop at 8. You say "I one a turner" and you go up to eighteen, so the person says "I eighteen a turner"
and you say "You ate Tina Turner!?" heh.

-posted By Lizzi on Monday, May 1, 2000 - 05:05 am:

http://www.streetplay.com/discus/
Streetplay.com Discussion: Girl Games: Clap & rhyme / tongue twisters / word games: Clap and Rhyme: Archive through June 8, 2000

**

"Tina Turner" being the famous R&B singer who used to be married to Ike.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:27 AM

Here's another example of a children's song that I found that mentions two famous people:


REMEMBER THIS ONE?

Head and shoulders, baby One Two Three
Head and shoulders, baby One Two Three
Head and shoulders, Head and shoulders
Head and shoulders, Head and shoulders
Baby One Two Three

Round the world, baby One Two Three
Round the world, baby One Two Three
Round the world, Round the world,
Round the world, Round the world,
Baby One Two Three

(Then we'd do an Elvis Presley verse while pretenting to play guitar and shake hips and wobbly legs. Next was Jackie Gleason)

Then we'd do the whole ensemble

Head and Shoulders, Round the world
Elvis Presley, Jackie Gleason
Baby, One Two Three

-By denise on Thursday, April 27, 2000

http://www.streetplay.com/discus/
Streetplay.com Discussion: Girl Games: Clap & rhyme / tongue twisters / word games: Clap and Rhyme: Archive through June 8, 2000

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:24 AM

Hi, Mike B.

Thanks for posting that song. I'm pretty sure that many Americans {including me} have connected the name "John Brown" in this rhyme to the Harper's Ferry abolitionist. But I wouldn't be surprised if the name originally referred to an anyman figure {like John Smith}-meaning that's a general, common name for a man. I say that because, what does the abolitionist have to do with ten little Indians {not to mention him "having them" which might mean they were slaves, right?

**

I know. I know. I went off on a roll...I really get in to this kind of stuff. I'm interested in children's rhymes in part because I find some of them aesthetically pleasing to read, to hear, and to see children perform them. I also consider children's rhymes to be window into the world of populations of children, and therefore should be studied for their historical, and psycho-social implications. Furthermore, I belive that examples of children's rhymes could have a number of academic applications.

But I've come to realize that one of the main reasons why I'm interested in children's rhymes is that they are a way to get away from much more pertinent, and much more serious subjects and situations. Plus, I equate the pleasure I get from finding possible sources of rhymes,verses, and lines in children's rhymes to the pleasure that some people get from completing difficult crossword puzzles or jigsaw puzzles or finding some nugget of information about some esoteric subject after putting in hours of "detective work". Collecting and studying children's rhymes is a hobby for me, and I ain't ashamed to admit it :o)

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Mike B.
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:51 PM

John Brown had a little Indian,
John Brown had a little Indian,
John Brown had a little Indian,
One little Indian boy.

One little, two little, three little Indians,
Four little, five little, six little Indians,
Seven little, eight little, nine little Indians,
Ten little Indian boys...

(not sure if it refers to the militant abolitionist of Harpers Ferry fame)

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 12:57 AM

Thanks for your response, Bill.

That's interesting information, especially the part that boys between 8-14 years old in those decades didn't mind playing what I learned are called "play party" games {but I haven't actually heard that term used}. In the USA, I've found that those singing games are adult initiated with children around 3-6 years old.

Btw, for what it's worth, re the games you mentioned "I sent a letter to my love", "The farmer's in his dell", "Musical Chairs" and "Pass the Parcel" I know a rhyme called "A tisket A tasket" with the line "I sent a letter to my love", but I don't think that it's that commonly known among American children nowadays {I didn't know it as a child}. And I don't know of any game that was played with this rhyme in the USA.

I know Hokey Pokey and Farmer In The Dell {but those are played at adult direction with pre-school children {3-4 years old more than 5-6 years old}. And re "pass the parcel", I don't know that one at all.

Again, thanks Bill for sharing this information for my curiosity's sake and for the folkloric record.   

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 12:25 AM

Azizi,
I have no recent information on UK happenings. I'm talking about the 1950s / early 60s. The Grand Old Duke of York would usually be danced at parties (Christmas, Halloween, etc)organised for the kids by parents in small communities and villages. TV wasn't that big yet. We would do other "dances" like the Hokey Cokey (You put your left hand in... that's what it's all about!) aka in the US as the Hokey Pokey. Other kids' "dances (or games)" like "I sent a letter to my love", "The farmer's in his dell", "Musical Chairs" and "Pass the Parcel" would also be played.
There usually wasn't a band or any kind of recorded music - just a piano player and we all sang the words of the song as we participated in the activity.
I don't recall there being any problem with boys and girls of 8-14 years interacting with each other. It seemed like a natural activity encouraged by our parents.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:12 PM

Just for clarification purposes, I can't remember what type of recorded music was played throughout that dance. However, I think that it was one song for most of the dance and then a different song {with no gap in between} for the ending segment when the "couples" danced facing each other. But if I recall correctly, both of these were instrumental songs and both of them were only moderately fast.

Also, one of the things that I liked about that dance was that people of all ages danced together. That is to say, a child could be partnered with an adult. It was just how it happened in two lines.

In defense of African American wedding reception customs, we usually do line dances at wedding receptions {or at least most wedding receptions I've been to do the "Electric Slide" if not any other line dance}. And usually children of varying ages will do the line dance {or try to do the dance} along with the women and men.

I know that this is only tangentially related to the subject of this thread. But I still wanted to share it.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 08:54 PM

Also, Bill, for what it's worth, about five years ago, I attended a wedding and a reception for a couple who were both born in Liberia, West Africa, but who both lived in Pittsbugh, Pennsylvania.

One of the dances that was done in this reception was very much how you describe the Duke Of York dance, except that the dance ended with the end the bride & groom and other males and females who just appened to be partnered up because they were facing each other in the male and female lines, dancing facing each other to the recorded music that was playing. I can't remember what type of music it was, but I think it was R&B or pop.

I think they called this dance "The Grand March", but I'm not sure about that.

I'd never seen this dance performed before at a wedding reception or anywhere else. Most of the people who were there were from Liberia, and they seemed to be very familiar with this dance. I recall asking someone about this dance and that person saying that it is customary for this dance to be performed at Liberian wedding receptions. I wonder if this is an Anglo-American Southern custom that was carried to Africa by free or freed African Americans who emigrated to what became Liberia in the 19th century.

Be that as it may, I really loved that dance. And I wish that we African Americans had that same custom at our weddings or other social gatherings.

Is this a dance that certain populations of White adults do now in the UK at weddings or other social gatherings?

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 08:27 PM

Thanks, Bill.

I appreciate you sharing that information!

In the USA elementary school age boys {7-13 years} seldom like to play singing/chanting games with girls {except some competitive handclap games like "Down By The Banks Of The Hanky Panky" and "Stella Ella Ola." Btw, there are Mudcat threads for both of these rhymes}.

I would be surprised if this is any different in the UK. I'd also be surprised if children in the UK or elsewhere still perform this dance on their own inititive. Can you share any information on that? Also do you have a sense of how widely known "Duke Of York" might be among UK children nowadays {meaning,since the 1980s or so?}

Thanks again, Bill!

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 08:04 PM

I don't know. What do you think?

Sorry, Melissa. I couldn't resist that one.

Thanks for that example. That's not a song I know. But if we are branching out into children's songs and not playground rhymes, there are the call & response versions of Ruldolph the Red Nose Reindeer. Here's two:

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (reindeer)
Had a very shiny nose (like a light bulb)
And if you ever saw it (saw it)
You would even say it glowed (like a flashlight)
All of the other reindeer (reindeer)
Used to laugh and call him names (like Pinocchio)
They never let poor Rudolph (Rudolph)
Join in any reindeer games (like Monopoly)

Then one foggy Christmas Eve, Santa came to say {say What?!}
Rudolph with your nose so bright
Won't you guide my sleigh tonight?

Then how the reindeer loved him (loved him)
And they shouted out with glee (Hurrah!}
Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer (reindeer)
You'll go down in history...(like Columbus}
-girls & boys, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania; collected by Azizi Powell, 1997

-snip-

Btw, In 2006 I heard some African American children in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania say "You'll go down in history {like Martin Luther King}".

**

Subject: Lyr Req: got any kid's additions for Rudolph?
From: open mike - PM
Date: 17 Dec 04 - 07:35 PM

here is how the song appears in the D.T.
but i think htere are some other words
for the parenthesis--end of lines shouts

for instatnce the shiny nose and the "glows"
sometimes both have light bulb after them..'
but i am looking for a different one for "nose"
and we usually said "like Columbus" for the history one.


RUDOLPH, THE RED-NOSED REINDEER (with kid's additons)

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (reindeer)
Had a very shiny nose (like a light bulb)
And if you ever saw it (saw it)
You would even say it glowed (like a stop light)
All of the other reindeer (reindeer)
Used to laugh and call him names (like Pinocchio)
They never let poor Rudolph (Rudolph)
Join in any reindeer games (like Monopoly)

Then one foggy Christmas Eve, Santa came to say (Ho, ho, ho)
Rudolph with your nose so bright
Won't you guide my sleigh tonight

Then how the reindeer loved him (loved him)
And they shouted out with glee (ha, ha, ha)
Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer (reindeer)
You'll go down in history...(like George Washington)

thread.cfm?threadid=76629

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 08:01 PM

Azizi asked if The Grand Old Duke Of York was a jump rope {skipping} rhyme, and, perhaps, also a ball bouncing rhyme. Or was it a handclap rhyme?
It is none of these. It is a kid's dance in which the boys form a line and the girls form another line facing each other. To the music the first couple join hands and skip down between the two lines. At the bottom, they turn and skip back up to the top. There they part and the boy turns left and skips down the outside of the line of boys while the girl turns right and skips down the girls' line. The boys then follow the first boy and the girls follow the first girl. At the bottom the first boy and girl face each other and make an arch with both arms held high. As each of the boys and girls meet, they link hands, pass through the arch and reform the two lines, with a new first couple. The original couple are now at the other end of the lines and the new first couple begin all over again.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Melissa
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 06:57 PM

at my second camp, they sang one about a tall silk hat which had a "Christopher Columbus, what do you think of that"

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 06:48 PM

LOL, Geordie-Peorgie!

Well I'm impressed that boys that age knew the medical terms "Coron'ry thrombosis".

At least I think that "thrombosis" is a medical term.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 06:33 PM

Oh Azizi! Aah wish it were so!

Unfortunately that version wez deein' the roonds when aah wez aboot 10 or 12 years - Aboot 1960!

There wez aall the others aboot Hitler bein' testicularly challenged.

There's a UK brewery (Shepherd Neame) who had a series of adverts for a beer caalled 'Spitfire' which took the p*ss oot o' the Germans - One advert was a picture of old Adolf with the slogan 'Spot The Ball'

Another one had a condom (in its packet) in a pint of beer with the slogan 'Oh-oh! Johnnie's in the drink' - Priceless

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:46 PM

Here's a children's handclap rhyme that mentions American pianist and entertainer Liberace


Shake, shake, shake
Eeny meeny
That's a queeny
Ooh ba Thumbalina
Ah cha ca che Liberace
Oh baby I love you
Yes I do.
Take a peach
Take a plum
Take a piece of bubble gum
No peach
No plum
Just a piece of bubble gum
Oooshe ahshe
Oooshe ahshe
I want a piece of pie
The pie too sweet
I want a piece of meat
The meat too tough
I want to ride the bus
The bus too full
I want to ride the bull
The bull too black
I want my money back
The money too green
I want a diamond ring.
{Source Barbara Michels, Bettye White, Apples On A Stick,
The Folklore of Black Children (Houston, Texas; 1983, p. 17)

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:16 PM

Geordie-Peorgie, thanks for posting that version of "Ring-a-ring-a-roses" {which is usually called "Ring Around The Roses" in the USA}.

The version you posted "sounds" like it might be an adult parody and not a children's version.

??

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:10 PM

Here's another parody version of the song "Whistle While You Work":

Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: EuGene - PM
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 10:32 PM

...I remember a "nasty" chant us boys would do at about 7 or 8 years old (sung to the 7 Dwarfs' work song):

"Whistle while you work,
Hitler was a jerk.
Mussolini yanked his weenie,
Now it will not squirt."

thread.cfm?threadid=102055

-snip-

In another post to that thread EuGene provided the following demographical information:

"I grew up for part of my early years in the remote Ozarks area of North Arkansas where there were no African Americans".

I'm not sure whether age 7 or 8 counts as being part of his "early years" or notthat time period or not. However, EuGene also noted that he remembered rhymes from "the 1950's and early 1960's".

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:46 PM

Manitas is reet abbot George IV (or Ivy as wez knaahn on Tyneside)

And... althoug it doesn't mention anyone partic'lar..........

Ring-a-ring-a-roses
Coron'ry thrombosis
Seizure! Seizure!
All fall down

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 04:39 PM

Here's an example of a jump rope {skipping}rhyme that mentions a famous person:

George Washington

never told a lie.

'till he ran around the corner

(Drag out while singing. The jumper runs out and run around a turner then jumps back in and the song continues)

stole a cherry pie.

How many cherries were in that pie?

1.2.3.4....(count until the jumper messes up)

Contributed by Solana Reed

http://www.gameskidsplay.net/jump_rope_ryhmes/jump_george_washington.htm

-snip-

I like children's playground rhymes because they showcase children's creativity. I'm interested in this subset of children's playground rhymes {rhymes that mention famous people} because they preserve children's take on people who are currently in the news, or children's take on historical figures.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 04:22 PM

Let me try that again:

The sentence that I wrote on 17 Oct 08 - 02:15 PM was poorly structured. I meant to say that I did not conduct a thorough search on the subject of the meaning of nusery rhyme. However, from the brief online search that I did conduct on that subject t of that subject it appears that there is considerable disagreement about what many nursery rhymes mean.

Perhaps nursery rhymes mean more than one. And maybe their meanings have changed over time.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 04:20 PM

The sentence that I posted on was poorly structured. I meant to say that I did not conduct a thorough search on the subject of the meaning of nusery rhyme. However, from the brief online search that I did conduct on that subject t of that subject it appears that there is considerable disagreement about what many nursery rhymes mean.

Perhaps nursery rhymes mean more than one. And maybe their meanings have changed over time.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 03:20 PM

Bah Bah Black sheep,
Have you any wool?
Yes sir Yes sir,Three bags full.
One for the master,
One for the dame.
One for the little boy.
Who lives down the lane.
Refers to payments made to the family disrupted by the birth of James 1's illegitimate son.
Three bags of wool = the payment.
Master = the husband of the Dame who gave birth to the child.
The little boy = obviously the son.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 02:15 PM

Manitas, I don't want to weigh into this topic because I know too little about it. But, for the record, from a brief online search and not a more thorough literature search, it appears that there is considerable disagreement about what many nursery rhymes mean, including "Georgy Porgie".

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:58 AM

Oh. Thanks, Manitas. I didn't know that.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:56 AM

Georgie Porgie is usually reckoned to be King George IV.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:51 AM

Although it's not a children's rhyme, I can't resist posting this link to the words to Lord Caresser's now classic calypso song about King Edward and Wallis Simpson:

thread.cfm?threadid=90138#1706173
Most popular historical lovers...

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:32 AM

Thanks, Sailor Ron, for posting that rhyme fragment.

That rhyme refers to Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson. The word "pinched" in the line "Mrs. Simpson's pinched our King", the word "pinched" means something like "took" or "stole".

Here's an excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VIII_of_the_United_Kingdom :

"Edward VIII (Edward Albert Christian George Andrew Patrick David; later The Duke of Windsor; 23 June 1894 – 28 May 1972) was King of the United Kingdom and the British dominions, and Emperor of India from 20 January 1936, following the death of his father, George V, until his abdication on 11 December 1936...Only months into his reign, Edward caused a constitutional crisis by proposing marriage to the American divorcée Wallis Simpson. Although legally Edward could have married Mrs. Simpson and remained king, the prime ministers of his various realms opposed the marriage, arguing that the people would never accept her as queen...Rather than give up Mrs. Simpson, Edward chose to abdicate, making him the only monarch of Britain, and indeed any Commonwealth realm, to have voluntarily relinquished the throne"...

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:12 AM

One from before the War.

Hark the Herald Angels sing
Mrs. Simpson's pinched our King.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 08:12 AM

Here are two examples from thread.cfm?threadid=2998&messages=112

Subject: RE: Naughty kids' greatest hits II
From: Melani - PM
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 12:34 AM

On top of Old Smoky
Where nobody goes,
I saw Annie Oakley
Without any clothes.
Along came Gene Autry
And took off his vest,
And when he saw Annie,
He took off the rest.

**

Subject: RE: Naughty kids' greatest hits II
From: Metchosin - PM
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 03:18 AM

We used Betty Grable instead of Annie Oakley and from what I recall, sang:

Along came Gene Autry
A clippity clop
He sat down beside her
And pulled out his cock



subtlety was lost on us.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:54 PM

Thompson, could you please post more lines to that children's rhyme or did you mean to post it in this Mudcat thread: Songs & Jingles In Political Campaigns?

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:40 PM

Vote, vote, vote for de Valera...