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Tech: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.

Acorn4 14 Oct 08 - 10:30 AM
MMario 14 Oct 08 - 10:43 AM
Donuel 14 Oct 08 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 14 Oct 08 - 11:53 AM
Rapparee 14 Oct 08 - 12:08 PM
beardedbruce 14 Oct 08 - 12:15 PM
Joe Offer 14 Oct 08 - 12:23 PM
JohnInKansas 14 Oct 08 - 12:41 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 14 Oct 08 - 01:15 PM
Bee 14 Oct 08 - 01:37 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 14 Oct 08 - 01:51 PM
Peace 14 Oct 08 - 01:53 PM
Bee 14 Oct 08 - 02:37 PM
Joe Offer 14 Oct 08 - 02:41 PM
JohnInKansas 14 Oct 08 - 02:49 PM
Geoff the Duck 14 Oct 08 - 03:15 PM
Rapparee 14 Oct 08 - 03:17 PM
Bee 14 Oct 08 - 05:38 PM
JohnInKansas 14 Oct 08 - 06:28 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 14 Oct 08 - 08:16 PM
JohnInKansas 15 Oct 08 - 05:23 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 15 Oct 08 - 05:29 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 15 Oct 08 - 05:30 PM
The Fooles Troupe 15 Oct 08 - 09:16 PM
JohnInKansas 16 Oct 08 - 01:51 AM
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Subject: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: Acorn4
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 10:30 AM

My admittedly rather aged PC has recently slowed to a crawl after downloading XP Service Pack 3.

Recently Microsoft had to give in to public pressure and extend the time span for which they'll support XP.

Is this just a roundabout way of snookering people's machines so they will buy Vista, or am I just getting paranoid?

Anyone else getting similar problems?


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: MMario
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 10:43 AM

microsoft is essentially what used to be called "bloatware" - they just keep adding on, and adding on, and adding on - and eventually the older machines just can't support the new code.


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:12 AM

I have noticed that all the new games don't run on XP and require a newer Vistaop and an upgraded graphic card.

planned obsolesence is the golden goose for manufacturers who rely on rampant consumerism.

Tech stocks are really taking a beating. They will need to revise their business strategy for the coming years.


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:53 AM

Vista sucks.....increase your memory, and XP kicks ass!


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 12:08 PM

I quite agree with you this time, GfS. XP is probably the best OS Microsloshed has every put out.


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 12:15 PM

Hey, Win 2000 Pro is good enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 12:23 PM

I added a gigabyte of RAM to each of the machines at the office at the time I installed XP Service Pack 3, and they all work exceptionally well. I have Vista on my machine with twice the RAM, and it's really getting sluggish.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 12:41 PM

The time frame for support of WinXP has not been changed.

Microsoft has recently extended, by six months, the time during which they will provide WinXP to OEM builders so that people who buy new machines with Vista installed can be offered the "downgrade" to WinXP.

The extension of the time during which you might be able to get WinXP does NOT AFFECT the date on which it becomes "unsupported."

WinXP SP3 does change some "security features," especially if your WinXP wasn't "completely up to date" before SP3 was installed; and it may have affected other programs on your computer. There have been a few reports of specific programs that did run on WinXP that cease to run when SP3 is iinstalled. There may be other programs that run, but not quite as well.

WinXP SP3 was installed on my prior computer, just before it died of extreme old age, and it caused no noticeable problems there. It was recently installed on Lin's fairly new WinXP (originally with OEM SP2) with no problems.

Those reporting problems appear to be mostly those with machines more than 10 years old, with less than 1GB RAM, with limited (less than 150GB) hard drive space, with limited (often on-the-motherboard) graphics cards, and those using lots of "third party software." (Lots of games have been the subject of complaints, due to graphics card demands and poor third-party compatibility.)

If you can identify a specific program that's having a problem with SP3, you may find an update is available from the program builder. Graphics cards and printers may have new drivers that will help.

Many WinXP users may be still using Office programs that went "out of support" some time ago. WinXP patches caused my Word 2002 to "cease working" more than a year ago, although Lin's Word 2003 still seems to be fully functional with WinXP SP3. (Office 2002 was the "standard" with "WinXP Business" when I got my previous machine.)

Since WinXP is at "end of life cycle" you can expect that future security patches will not be checked for full compatibility with other "end of life cycle" Microsoft programs, or for compatibility with third-party programs, and that lots of things will begin to "work less well" as the OS is allowed to die.

If your machine has any problems with WinXP SP3, you may assume that you should NOT ATTEMPT to use it with Vista. Vista is a "workable" pain in the a** if you have enough machine to run it. If you're forced to replace older Office software, the only description I can give for the only replacement available from Microsoft - - Office 2007, is "TOTAL FUCKUP."

John


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:15 PM

"Vista sucks.....increase your memory, and XP kicks ass!"

I have to disagree... I think Vista is a nice improvement over XP. I have used it over a year with less issues than I had when I first used XP.


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: Bee
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:37 PM

Ten months with Vista HP - no problems, no crashes, very few instances of irreconcilable incompatibility with less than ten year old software. Of course, by even writing that down, I've increased the odds it will crash mightily tomorrow....

There has been a learning curve, especially with figuring out some of the sound issues which seem to have to do with making the brand new HP computer's multiplicity of usb ports actually admit to being connected to anything at all. I suspect that has more to do with HP than Vista, though, and combined with my lack of knowledge as to what I'm doing.

Example: husband bought cheap mp3 player. I've yet to manage to get Vista to recognize its existence no matter what slot I plug it into. But - I have never owned an mp3 player of any kind, and have to guess at what might work - the thing came with no real instructions and its website, Nextar, is utterly useless. Am waiting for a teenager to pass by, at which point I will snatch him or her off the road and demand that they use their phenomenal modern tech skills to help me out here.


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:51 PM

Bee - if you are not seeing anything when you connect the MP3 to the computer, it is possible that there is a problem with the device or the cable.

I have 2GB Nextar that works fine with Vista. All you need to do is connect the USB cable to the PC and the player and it reads the MP3 player as a drive. Cost me about $40 and it serves my purposes!


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:53 PM

The greatest oxymoron in the English language: Microsoft Works.


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: Bee
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 02:37 PM

Thanks Ron - I'll try a couple things based on that info.


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 02:41 PM

Well, Peace, if all else fails, Microsoft Works, actually does. I have several databases I built on Microsoft Works many years ago, and they still work very well and have been easy to update as time has gone on. I think one of them was originally on the DOS version of Microsoft Works. I moved one or two databases over to Excel as an experiment, and I found I couldn't do anywhere neare as much with them, as I could with MS Works. The MS Works spreadsheet is perfectly adequate for simple projects, as is the word processor. When Microsoft marketed Word with Works and Encarta, it was a very nice package that was perfect for the needs of most home users.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 02:49 PM

Although there is a significant "learning curve" when going to Vista, it seems that it's only partly what you have to learn. Vista (probably via updates) seems to have "learned" how to accomodate my desktop setup, with problems that I couldn't solve suddenly just "disappearing."

One of the difficulties I have encountered though is with my laptop.

Nearly every "Vista compatible" program attempts to connect to the internet to "look for updates" every time the program is opened. If you have a good connection, you probably won't even know that it's doing this.

During a month at festival, without access to an internet connection, multiple different things just "stopped working." Mysterious demands to install drivers for devices that didn't exist kept popping up. USB devices would connect normally, then not be recognized, then be recognized as something else, then once again (sometimes) be recognized correctly.

After a week or two back at home, with internet access, a few of these mysteries seem to have been resolved; but my screen saver stopped working while at camp and I've been unable to find any way to restore it. I find lots of people on the internet with the same screen saver problem, but NO COMMENT from Microsoft - or useful comment from the SPGWKs - on what to do about it.

My conclusion is that Vista does not play well without an "always on" internet connection. It might be a different matter if it never had a connection but it seems to be addicted to calling home to mother once you let it do it the first time.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 03:15 PM

If your Windows XP machine decides that SP3 is just too much for it to handle, it is probably time to think about ditching Microsoft. You have perfectly good hardware, but the operating system will not work on it. If SP3 is too much for the hardware, then Vista is certain to be too much. In essence, you won't be able to run Windows, and all your old useful programmes will be defunct.
Your best solution is probably to install some variety of LINUX. They can be downloaded for free. You can find free software which does just about the same as your now useless Windows software, but will do it a damn sight faster.
I installed a dual booting set-up on my XP box (which is still fast enough to cope with Windows updates), but am very impressed with what Linux (in my case SUSE) can do without it needing to fight against the legacy of Microsoft.
If you want to try Lnux, there are a number of mudcatters and regular guests who are expert when it comes to seting up a Linux box. I got a lot of useful advice earlier this year "Linux in 2008".
Lots of people say they stick with Windows because they need it to keep running programmes they have been using for years, but let's face it, if Windows refuses to run your programmes because of SP3, what are you losing You will need to find new, different programmes anyway. With Linux, it won't cost you a penny.
Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 03:17 PM

Iffen I had my druthers I'd druther have Linux.


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: Bee
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:38 PM

JiK, someone I know had the screen saver and background stop working - actually couldn't access the right-click on desktop menu. In his case, another user of his computer had set up a password for themselves, which somehow locked out his access to the menu. May not have anything to do with your problem, but might give you a clue about where to look.


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:28 PM

Bee -

In this case I can be quite certain the laptop was not accessed by anyone, as it was safely sequestered in our camper for the whole time. All the menus are accessible, and all settings are - so far as I can tell - exactly as they were when the screen saver worked. All the security settings are in good order, having been checked out several times recently.

As already mentioned, I've found several dozen users with similar complaints on the internet, with well-meaning advice from the SPGWKs that doesn't work for those who posted the problem any better than it works for me. There may well be multiple things that could cause the screen saver to fail to run, but none of the obvious (or any arcane ones that I've found) seem to recover mine.

As I won't actually need the laptop again until next August, for WVA, it's not a high priority problem. I'll probably just do without my pretty pictures for now. (And I have the same screen saver on my desktop, so I'm not really missing them.)

John


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:16 PM

Hey Joe, thought you might be on this thread, answering .......Early this morning a bunch of us spilled out of the studio, and with several others here, they read the post, that I wrote, in the 'Time Wasters' thread. People could barely catch their breath, laughing so hard....and laughing long after, quoting some of it....and you pulled it off.....perhaps, in your cache of removed stuff, you could put it back up, as it was in humor, and yet, a insightful parody. I think others may really enjoy it. Might get their 'reflective circuits' working!! Surely, you weren't offended by it, were you??
    Well, I thought it was pretty funny, but I can see how others might find it offensive. I'm not going to contradict the decision of the volunteer editor who deleted the message - but I think it was one of those "borderline" things that could be decided either way. I had to read it twice before I decided what to think of it. I'll be glad to send it to anybody who sends me a personal message.
    -Joe@mudcat.org-


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:23 PM

eWeek has just published a "correction" - direct from Microsoft - on the previously published "extension for WinXP."

In simple terms, there was, is, and will be, a specific date after which OEM builders will not be permitted to sell WinXP, either directly, or via a "downgrade" for people who purchase a new computer with Vista installed.

The only "extension" that Microsoft has agreed to is a 6 month later cutoff date when they will stop shipping WinXP "downgrade media" to OEM builders. The last date on which an OEM maker can get new media to provide to anyone is extended, but is still well before the last (and unchanged) date when an OEM can sell WinXP. The date at which OEMs must cease selling and/or providing WinXP has not changed.

Sorry if that's all confusing; but my earlier post (14 Oct 08 - 12:41 PM) was based on last week's news - which apparently was widely and incorrectly reported.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:29 PM

A 'volunteer editor' over rides you???..I'm going to have a nervous breakdown!!! Yeah, it was funny!..Sorry that so many on here are so thin skinned...they must be 'liberals'...wink!


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:30 PM

Sorry, I double posted!


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:16 PM

JiK - here in Aus, secondhand machines that are "ex-office" machines - some of them ex-Govt Dept, come with a label with a Win XP (or Vista) serial number affixed - the reseller can hand out an XP or Vista Disk for the licenced OS - unless it is one of those arrangements where no physical disk is involved, the OS being only supplied on a 'back-up partition' from where you have to burn your own disk if you want the OS SW on a disk separate from the PC (this is most common on laptops).

XP will die (the end of Xp support is the same), but there has always been some legal contention here that MS does not have the legal power to stop secondhand machines being resold with the legal SW originally provided on the machine (MS force their resellers to put a MS OS on all machines they sell new).


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Subject: RE: BS: XP Service Pack 3 Conspiracy Theory.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:51 AM

Foolestroupe -

The EULA (End User License Agreement), at least in the US, clearly gives you the right to transfer the Microsoft OS with the machine on which it was originally (legally) installed. It is a requirement that the installation disk(s) be transferred with the machine. "Server installed" versions should be just as legal, provided that the server accounts for the remaining number of installations permitted at the shop of origin.

Transferring "your" copy of WinXP to a new machine presents some difficulties, under the recent EULA, but has been permitted by Microsoft in some cases, where the original machine can be certified as "dead and removed from service." (It usually takes some "negotiation" to get this accomplished.)

If an OEM builder wants to install a Microsoft OS on new machines that (s)he's selling, Microsoft now insists that the "current OS" be what's installed, and that means Vista at present. For now, the OEM builder can offer the "downgrade to WinXP, but is required (apparently by contract) to get the media for each computer - for Vista and for the WinXP "downgrade" - from Microsoft.

Although as a practical matter, few OEM builders selling Microsoft OS equipped machines have offered alternatives in the recent past, at least a couple now do offer to ship new machines with Linux as the original OS, although most shipments still are with Vista preinstalled.

John


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