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BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?

gnu 29 Dec 12 - 04:20 PM
Ed T 29 Dec 12 - 03:50 PM
gnu 29 Dec 12 - 03:40 PM
Ed T 29 Dec 12 - 02:39 PM
gnu 29 Dec 12 - 02:09 PM
Ed T 29 Dec 12 - 12:13 PM
Jim Lad 22 Oct 08 - 04:28 AM
Little Hawk 21 Oct 08 - 11:43 PM
Cluin 21 Oct 08 - 11:36 PM
Little Hawk 21 Oct 08 - 06:31 PM
Jim Lad 21 Oct 08 - 02:03 AM
gnu 20 Oct 08 - 04:28 PM
gnu 20 Oct 08 - 01:48 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 20 Oct 08 - 10:14 AM
Cluin 19 Oct 08 - 11:49 PM
Jim Lad 19 Oct 08 - 03:43 AM
gnu 18 Oct 08 - 01:17 PM
GUEST,HiLo 18 Oct 08 - 01:11 PM
Bee 18 Oct 08 - 12:56 PM
Jim Lad 18 Oct 08 - 12:38 PM
meself 18 Oct 08 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,number 6 18 Oct 08 - 08:00 AM
gnu 18 Oct 08 - 05:46 AM
GUEST,number 6 17 Oct 08 - 07:10 PM
gnu 17 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM
Little Hawk 16 Oct 08 - 08:00 PM
GUEST,number 6 16 Oct 08 - 06:57 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 06:48 PM
Peace 16 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 06:13 PM
Peace 16 Oct 08 - 06:03 PM
Little Hawk 16 Oct 08 - 05:25 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 05:14 PM
Little Hawk 16 Oct 08 - 05:05 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 04:43 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 04:12 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 04:10 PM
Little Hawk 16 Oct 08 - 03:55 PM
Bee 16 Oct 08 - 02:48 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 01:25 PM
meself 16 Oct 08 - 01:22 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 01:18 PM
Bee 16 Oct 08 - 01:13 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 01:05 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 16 Oct 08 - 01:03 PM
Bee 16 Oct 08 - 12:18 PM
Jim Lad 16 Oct 08 - 12:17 PM
GUEST,number 6 16 Oct 08 - 12:00 PM
bankley 16 Oct 08 - 11:46 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 04:20 PM

That was the best part! >;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 03:50 PM

Well, maybe yes...minus the piece of shit and bus stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 03:40 PM

Ah... yeah... that's what I said. I think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 02:39 PM

Regardless of what how you view the individual, gnu, Harper has seemed to be a good political strategist, with his administration covering so many bases - while those in opposition parties were asleep at the job. The question is have they "woken up" and is it "too little, too late"?

I suspect some forgot the impact of youth and the ever-changing mood brought forward by new Canadians (except in Atlantic Canada, that is). Also, the old statement on politics that - "the main concern ifs the economy, stupid", can't be ignored.


My observations are that concerns for the economy versus environment move up and down throughout periods. With recent global challenges, I suspect concerns for the economy are at the forefront - though experience is that this can change quickly and concern for the environment could move to the top. But, I suspect those governing have a back-up strategy for that possibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 02:09 PM

Trudaeu has three years to prove himself. Even if he actually could (at least grant me that THAT is a longshot), Harper is adept at the game and big business is everything ALTHOUGH if Trudeau can tap the hearts of Canucks rather than the wallets of the rich and middle class, he will win... because he has two things in his favour already. First, Canucks may simply wish a change. Second, Harper is a piece of shit that doesn't care about any Canuck who isn't rich.

There is my insightful, astute and in depth analysis. I hope the fucker gets run over by a bus. in one of the new ridings in The Big Smoke.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 12:13 PM

This is an old thread. But, at least there was room for logic in this one (versus the current thread that is up).

I brought gnu's interesting old debate back as the issues in this article will likely continue stong into 2012 as the Liberals are "waiting for a miracle" - (no disrespect to anyone else also seeking for change on specific issues or even a whole bunch of them).


If you wish a spot to participate "go for it" - if not, it will just move down.


That was then, this is now


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 04:28 AM

Would add a whole new concept to clearing the benches.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:43 PM

Oh, fer sure, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Cluin
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:36 PM

Because of his snappy fashion sense? That's very conservative.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 06:31 PM

Shane has been saying for years that Don Cherry oughta be the prime minister! He would bring a whole new sensibility to the office. ;-)

I think he'd pretty well have to head up the Conservatives, though, not any of the other parties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 02:03 AM

Don Cherry


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 04:28 PM

Well... Stephane Dion's is. Done deal.

Hehehe... how very Canuck to not start a new thread after the election. Perhaps it is time... who's it gonna be? The new leader, I mean.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 01:48 PM

The "bungled" interview pissed off a LOT of Acadians. There was a whack of votes lost in Acadie in very short order because, not only do most of them dislike the Quebecois, they hold little love for Quebecers that speak English poorly... not poor Quebecers or those from isolated communities, of course, but a well educated and well-off Quebecer?... no way. Here in Moncton, where Brian Murphy (L) SHOULD have won by a landslide, he narrowly beat Daniel Allain (C). And, the province as a whole voted Conservative far beyond what I had anticipated. It was rather surprising for New Brunswick.

I am not saying it was that interview alone that did in Stephy, but tack that on to the carbon tax, which he couldn't even explain in French, and Bob's t'oncle.

Of course, he's got that small head, too eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 10:14 AM

Well CTV did a number on Dion in his Halifax interview in Halifax a few days earlier. I lost a lot of respect for Steve Murphy who was always a fair but persistant interviewer. It seems that later information absolves Steve of blame because the empty suits above him pulled the strings. When Harper used the clip to attack Dion's poor English it reflected more on Harper's character. However I had no respect for Harper to anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 11:49 PM

it illustrates why Dion was so miffed at CTV on election night.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:43 AM

Well CTV has gone ahead and announced that "Ontario Liberal MP John McCallum has been tapped to take over the reins of his party as interim leader if Stephane Dion steps down as expected on Monday,.."
Tacky.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:17 PM

meself.... that's the crux of the biscuit... no need for him to say anything... the policy convention was scheduled long ago. Easy to regear the whole works months from now, or not, depending on "whatever". Nothing is gonna change in the meantime. As for there EVEN being a leadership convention... why bother until it's necessary? Only one reason... a vote of non-Harper TOO soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:11 PM

I live in a municipal area that does not have party politics and it is an absolute shambles...23 self interested people who have neither a shared vision or a shared committment to a set of ideaks. The result is the very antithesis of democracy. We always think the grass is greener on the other side...no parties, proportional representation..it all sounds great, but much of it reduces democracy to mindless anarchy. I think the biggest threat to our freedoms are the huge numbers of citizens who choose not to inform themselves then complain that they don't understand what choices they are given.
I don't think our system is perfect but it does beat most of the alternatives. At least I think it does.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:56 PM

Dion's public personality, and his voice, are half his problem. He just appears so embarassingly emotional about everything. If one looks past that, one ends up liking him, at least I do. I think he's honest, earnest, well-meaning. The contrast with Robo-Steven is stark.

I know Dion has a hearing problem, as well as still a little problem with English, especially, I suspect, understanding spoken English. I've wondered if his having a voice coach could have made a big difference in this past election.

Apropos of that, in high school I had a friend who could only speak in a very squeaky, almost inaudible voice, and so he rarely spoke at all. I met him a few years after high school, and was astonished when he greeted me in normal resonant tones. He'd gone and taken voice training, no medical involvement at all, and completely reinvented his speech. It changed his life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:38 PM

There's more than him should be taking a walk in the snow.
All this talk has taken the heat off Jack Layton though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: meself
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:18 AM

I don't see what the big rush is re: Dion. It's another six months till the leadership convention. Any Liberal calling for him to resign already should be given the bum's rush ... Tells you more about them than him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 08:00 AM

I thought that Commisso boy already looked after eliminating Volpe?

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 05:46 AM

He said Stevie Deux should annouce he is stepping down so that the May policy convention could be changed to a leadership convention.

I assume Joe Volpe is limping. Shoulda just shot himself in the head instead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 07:10 PM

I can't say ..... don't know the guy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM

Volpe is a complete dickhead, no?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:00 PM

Chongo is heading for a grand disillusionment about the party system too. I think he's going to get considerably less than 1 per cent of the USA vote in November.

That means there's gonna be one hell of a drunken bash at the APP headquarters afterward, lemme tell ya. Poor little guy! He's gonna be heartbroken. When that happens, a lot of booze is required to get Chongo through.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:57 PM

I'm for democracy ... and a non-party system does sound convincing ... can't be worse than what we got now.

Besides L.H. ... this concept was raised in a couple of conversations at work in the last 2 days.

the non-party poopers ####holes movement is growing ... better watch out, the next one to come up is the non-birthday movement.

biLL   :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:48 PM

Mexican Gold? Aucupokeyouintheass Gold? Oh WOW man. I remember that shit, man. That was some good shit, man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM

I'm not telling! But the non-party poopers here--if they're old enough--might recall a bright light in the heavens and three wise guys named Larry, Curly and Moe who went to Montreal's Royal Victoria Hospital and brought gifts of Frank's ten cents, gold from Mexico and myhrr/murr/merr some smelly stuff on September 17, 1947. That's the only hint you get.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:13 PM

Haaaaaapy Bday to you! When is your Bday anahwhay eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:03 PM

"No way I can type that fast. Okay, you win. There will be no more parties in Canada."

You ####holes. What about my birthday?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:25 PM

I wish. (grin) It's a dream I will never see happen. I have grown to loathe political parties as the decades rolled by, as I guess you can plainly tell...I would never join one of them. Not a chance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:14 PM

Holy shit. LH.... No way I can type that fast. Okay, you win. There will be no more parties in Canada.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:05 PM

Gnu, I am not proposing a ONE-party system. That's even worse than a multi-party system, and it IS a dictatorship. I am proposing a NO-party system with a legislature formed from free individuals of NO party affiliation whatsoever...the same as a town coucil or a city government (in many places)...or other forms of democracy we have operating right now, and working just fine.

How do you indicate your disapproval of government policy? The same way people in Athens, Greece did during their democracy....you vote AGAINST the incumbent(s) if they favored the passing of policies you did not approve of. You vote someone else in their place, someone whose stated policies you like better. If he fails to meet expectations, you vote him out of office. (elections to be held at scheduled intervals)

If seated members don't belong to any party, then they are not under some party whip when it comes to voting their conscience on a piece of legislation. They are far freer to vote as free individuals than people who are worrying about "maintaining party line" and about currying favor in the party hierarchy. They are far freer to genuinely represent the voters of their local constituency who put them in office. They aren't wasting incredible amounts of time and effort bad-mouthing the other parties to score points for the nexgt election. They don't have to answer to anyone BUT the voters, and when election time rolls around they will be rated on their performance while in office, but without the eternal bla-bla-bla about party identity and partisan BS (most of which is utterly destructive).

Imagine the freedom of being able to vote for someone JUST on his own merits and accomplishments for a change, rather than having to worry about which goddamn party he is in and letting that decide whether you give him your vote or not.

Parties are self-serving artificially created entities. They seek to enlarge themselves, just like corporations. They possess an unlimited appetite in that respect. They are in effect immortal, so you can't get rid of them, they just go on and on. They seek to regiment and coerce their members into a single, compliant bloc. They do all that is anti-democratic and leads to corruption and perversion of the political process.

There is nothing better you can possibly vote for than a free and independent individual who is beholden to NO party structure or hierarchy.

It is entirely possible to have a fully functioning democracy with no political parties. The only reason people can't get their heads around the idea is that they are already so accustomed to having political parties that they take it for granted. They have thus been divided and conquered by immortal institutions which do not represent them, but represent very large entrenched interests.

Political parties are a relatively new phenomenon in history, and they are not a good idea at all, in my opinion. They are the seed of corruption and division.

Democracy, on the other hand, is an excellent idea. It requires nothing other than free men and women who can vote their preferences, and an assemly composed from out of those free men and women, beholden to no party and no large organization or hierarchy.

Remove the hand of large hierarchical organizations such as churches, corporations, and political parties from the political process...and then, by God, you would have a real democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:43 PM

Hmmmmm


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:12 PM

Ooops... Our party system not ONLY ensures....


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:10 PM

United, we stand, divided, we fall.

Which is why, LH, I reject your proposal of party abolishment. The "one party" system is the core of the Communist system (appart from it's system of life cycle accounting, which I do like). On paper, it appears ideal, but, in practice, it leads to mob rule.

Our party system not ensures that the proper people get put on the job and that the job actually gets done without mayhem. More importantly, it also gives the populace a voice to "vote", either in reward or punishment. In your system, how would the general populace "vote" it's dis/approval?

Six of one....


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:55 PM

Bee, you are quite right when you say that "scratch the surface a little, though, and one often discovers profoundly divergent philosophies and beliefs, on government, on society, on freedom, even on individuality."   (between Canadians and Americans)

Absolutely. There is a very different core philosophy at work in Canada than in the USA, and there has been from the inception of those 2 nations as separate political entities.

What worries me is that the Canadian core philosophy (which really IS the "Canadian identity") keeps being assaulted in various ways and it has been significantly weakened in the past few decades.

I think you and I would agree on the elements that constitute those differences in core philosophy, and they have been amply demonstrated in the history of the Canadian West vs. the American West, and in the development of Canada's national health insurance plan, and in a variety of other ways.

Canadians focus more on shared community responsibility. Americans focus more on individual "rights" (laissez-faire). (Despite this we both have constitutions that guarantee essentially the same individual rights and freedoms for citizens.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:48 PM

Gnu, good story.

I got to thinking what it is, besides his retracted-later support for the Iraq war, why it is that I dislike and distrust Ignatieff. I thought that I'm maybe not very fair and going on guts instead of thinking it through. So I did a bit of reading. Most of the following articles got tossed up when he was about to run for the Liberal leadership. The first one is the most interesting, because it is a compressed biography of Ignatieff's entire life and career previous.

So for anyone interested, and it's a fact whether we like it or not that this man could be our next PM, here's a little glimpse in to the good, the bad and the just plain ugly of the man.

(I'm only gonna blue-clicky the first - yez can cut and paste the others.)

http://www.internet.uqam.ca/web/t6270/being_michael_ignatieff.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ignatieff

http://www.michaelignatieff.ca/

http://www.straight.com/telling-true-lies-about-michael-ignatieff

http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2005/11/michael-ignatieff-future-ruler-of-canada.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/neumann12082003.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM

Sorry... thread creep, but I just gotta!

I was in St. John's. Coast Guard HQ. Me, my boss from Moncton, and the fed DM, Transport - Marine were meeting with several fed Coast Guard (local) and a half dozen provicial politicians and senior silly servants. It was not long after Meech Lake and Mount Cashel.

After intros, my boss started the meeting with an ice breaker... "We are here to form a position of mutual respect and effort to accomplish an important task. I know relationships have been strained a bit lately. Many Newfoundlanders are tired of having politics shoved down their throats and religion shoved up their asses... or vice versa." Well, you coulda heard a pin drop in international waters. The silence was deafening and it lasted for a good ten seconds, until the Newfies took to laughing, whereupon everyone let loose. I had to wipe my eyes!

The meeting was over in less than an hour. And, we all walked away with a concensus. The policy agreement we reached that day is still in effect and working well, for all concerned. Makes me smile every time I recall that silence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:25 PM

Ignatieff? Good lord NO!

Tobin has been mentioned a lot. I'd vote for him, but a lot of Canucks wouldn't. I recall a joke from his era... Quebec wanted to build a wall around itself and he dispatched every Newfie he could spare to help. When asked why he sent them, he said, "Soon as she's done, we're gonna pump er full and make a fuckin fish pond outta er."


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: meself
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:22 PM

"the woman old fashioned and picturesque - no photographer could have resisted!"

Yeah - many old fashioned and picturesque people don't think of themselves in those terms, and in fact resent being so thought of by others. There was the sad case of a photographer who was shot and killed in the Appalachians (Kentucky?) when he 'couldn't resist' back in the 'sixties. I'm sure some American 'Catters could supply the name and place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:18 PM

Can't see Stephy stepping down right away, anyway. Only reason to do so is in case the Tories fall and I don't imagine they want to be perceived as causing another election in the near future... I think that would descimate them as bad as the Tories crashed and burned a short while ago. A good strategy for Harper to go after IF he can find an issue to use for that purpose without offending Canucks tooo much.

It has been the liberal strategy for quite a while to determine who will be the next leader and keep that person under wraps such that s/he can't get their foot in their mouth until the last minute. Martin was the latest example... he literally disappeared for a long time... so much so that there were media reports that he wouldn't even seek the leadership. Months at a time went by where he was absolutely silent, supposedly in disfavour with Jean.

In keeping with that strategy, my best guess is that he will stay on at least until next summer... probably until the following summer... but ya never know, eh?

Ya don't suppose they'll play the Separassion Card again? Nahhhh...


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:13 PM

New Liberal leader? ABI, please - Anybody But Ignatieff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:05 PM

I see the Grits issued a statement denying Stevie Deux would make a statement today re stepping down. The statement was, "We will properly advise the media when M. Dion is prepared to speak publicly."


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:03 PM

Come January Stephen Harper's nose will be forcibly removed from George W's arse. We can only hope at that time he will see a broader horizon. When he was in opposition he wanted us to invade Iraq but of course he was following his nose!


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:18 PM

Depends on where you are, LH, and how much one really delves into the differences. Here's my philosophizin' for the day.

One on one, in a social atmosphere, there most often doesn't seem to be much difference between Canadians and Americans. Scratch the surface a little, though, and one often discovers profoundly divergent philosophies and beliefs, on government, on society, on freedom, even on individuality.

For example, Libertarianism is on the rise in the US, with plenty of people who might not elect a Libertarian but who sympathize deeply with a lot of their basic concepts. Most Canadians are somewhat horrified by Libertarianism.

I had a conversation with an American online recently. I like this person - he's funny, intelligent, compassionate. The topic was the horrors of dog-fighting and whether making it legal would mitigate the horror of it - most vehemently disagreed. The ethics of big game trophy hunting came up as a side issue. And here's where the conversation went all Libertarian. A fair number of Americans chimed in, and the essence of their thoughts on the issue was that the 'nanny state' had no business making laws about ethical hunting. People should be able to make their own minds up, and in fact, on second thought, it probably was an infringement on individual freedom to even make dog-fighting illegal. Here's a quote: "It is about allowing people freedom, even when that allows some the freedom to do things we don't agree with. I don't feel it is the job of the Government to force people to adhere to my personal ethics."

I think Canadians are considerably more likely to want to legislate based on consensus. I'm not saying one or the other is the better philosophy. I'm just suggesting our philosophies on the whole are still quite different.

Sure, we are saturated by American media, but I tend to think we overestimate the effects of that. We watch it, but through the eyes of being Canadian, and whatever that may mean depending on our own background and experience.

I suspect we are more impacted by our large and diverse urban immigrant population, forcing us to face the world and open our minds, than by American media. And it's interesting that the cities with the largest immigrant populations are the cities that have elected no Conservative MPs.

About half of Canada's population is still rural, and the smallest numbers of immigrants live in rural areas. That's where you'll find the mostly white, mostly Scottish/Irish/English/French descendants of early settlement whose culture is likely the one of whose demise you're lamenting.

Are we changing? Yes, of course we are - change or die, eh? But I don't think we are changing into Americans - we're on a different path, and where that leads remains to be seen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:17 PM

It was all worth it just to get rid of Garth Turner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:00 PM

In regards to LH's post above (which I agree) ... I'll add that the world is not as it was back then also. It's all changing and we are going to have to let go of a lot of "traditional values" and get on with the new. But we need to hold onto to human values as a whole ... meaning reaching out and letting go of borders. Borders are like walls, providing false protection and an illusion of who and what we are. Walls eventually collapse.

Just my haypenny of a thought .... but there it is anyway.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: bankley
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 11:46 AM

" Passchendaele " opens tomorrow... look fwd to seeing it... made mostly in Alberta, timely... talk about a gritty episode in our history and the forging of a national identity...

good for Paul Gross... I like his later work, esp H2O... again, the artists remind us of who we are and sometimes how we got here..


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Mudcat time: 26 October 6:57 PM EDT

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