Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?

Sandy Mc Lean 14 Oct 08 - 04:47 PM
Jim Lad 14 Oct 08 - 04:51 PM
bobad 14 Oct 08 - 04:52 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 04:58 PM
john f weldon 14 Oct 08 - 04:59 PM
Peace 14 Oct 08 - 05:02 PM
Bee 14 Oct 08 - 05:29 PM
gnu 14 Oct 08 - 05:36 PM
Peace 14 Oct 08 - 05:38 PM
Little Hawk 14 Oct 08 - 06:08 PM
Peace 14 Oct 08 - 06:13 PM
Peter T. 14 Oct 08 - 06:15 PM
Jim Lad 14 Oct 08 - 06:26 PM
Peace 14 Oct 08 - 06:38 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 08:29 PM
CarolC 14 Oct 08 - 08:41 PM
Peace 14 Oct 08 - 08:44 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 08:45 PM
Bee 14 Oct 08 - 08:46 PM
Peace 14 Oct 08 - 08:49 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 08:50 PM
Peace 14 Oct 08 - 08:51 PM
Bee 14 Oct 08 - 08:53 PM
Mooh 14 Oct 08 - 08:53 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 08:53 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 08:55 PM
Peace 14 Oct 08 - 08:55 PM
Jim Lad 14 Oct 08 - 09:02 PM
Jim Lad 14 Oct 08 - 09:10 PM
Beer 14 Oct 08 - 09:11 PM
meself 14 Oct 08 - 10:15 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 10:30 PM
Azizi 14 Oct 08 - 10:46 PM
Azizi 14 Oct 08 - 10:48 PM
Peace 14 Oct 08 - 10:51 PM
Bee 14 Oct 08 - 10:59 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 11:17 PM
Bee 14 Oct 08 - 11:25 PM
bobad 14 Oct 08 - 11:29 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 11:32 PM
Peace 14 Oct 08 - 11:35 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 11:36 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 11:38 PM
Bee 14 Oct 08 - 11:39 PM
Peace 14 Oct 08 - 11:39 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 11:39 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 11:40 PM
GUEST,number 6 14 Oct 08 - 11:42 PM
meself 15 Oct 08 - 12:19 AM
meself 15 Oct 08 - 12:27 AM
Little Hawk 15 Oct 08 - 12:38 AM
Bee 15 Oct 08 - 12:45 AM
Peace 15 Oct 08 - 01:00 AM
Jim Lad 15 Oct 08 - 02:15 AM
Peace 15 Oct 08 - 02:27 AM
Jim Lad 15 Oct 08 - 02:55 AM
Peace 15 Oct 08 - 03:01 AM
sian, west wales 15 Oct 08 - 07:00 AM
gnu 15 Oct 08 - 07:06 AM
Raptor 15 Oct 08 - 07:35 AM
Bee 15 Oct 08 - 07:48 AM
Azizi 15 Oct 08 - 08:03 AM
bankley 15 Oct 08 - 08:13 AM
GUEST,number 6 15 Oct 08 - 08:23 AM
sian, west wales 15 Oct 08 - 09:44 AM
Bee 15 Oct 08 - 10:07 AM
Sandy Mc Lean 15 Oct 08 - 10:20 AM
Bee 15 Oct 08 - 11:29 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Oct 08 - 12:24 PM
Little Hawk 15 Oct 08 - 12:54 PM
Jim Lad 15 Oct 08 - 01:06 PM
Bee 15 Oct 08 - 01:07 PM
Little Hawk 15 Oct 08 - 01:10 PM
gnu 15 Oct 08 - 01:15 PM
Little Hawk 15 Oct 08 - 01:17 PM
Peace 15 Oct 08 - 01:23 PM
gnu 15 Oct 08 - 01:43 PM
Little Hawk 15 Oct 08 - 01:58 PM
Bee 15 Oct 08 - 02:13 PM
gnu 15 Oct 08 - 02:17 PM
Peace 15 Oct 08 - 02:23 PM
Little Hawk 15 Oct 08 - 02:54 PM
GUEST,number 6 15 Oct 08 - 02:55 PM
Little Hawk 15 Oct 08 - 02:59 PM
GUEST,number 6 15 Oct 08 - 03:06 PM
Jim Lad 15 Oct 08 - 03:19 PM
gnu 15 Oct 08 - 04:01 PM
bobad 15 Oct 08 - 04:10 PM
Little Hawk 15 Oct 08 - 04:12 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 15 Oct 08 - 04:56 PM
CarolC 15 Oct 08 - 05:04 PM
Jim Lad 15 Oct 08 - 06:18 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 15 Oct 08 - 07:07 PM
Little Hawk 15 Oct 08 - 07:08 PM
GUEST,number 6 15 Oct 08 - 08:12 PM
Jim Lad 15 Oct 08 - 09:25 PM
Peter T. 15 Oct 08 - 09:40 PM
black walnut 15 Oct 08 - 09:47 PM
Little Hawk 15 Oct 08 - 11:28 PM
Jim Lad 16 Oct 08 - 02:09 AM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 06:09 AM
Sandy Mc Lean 16 Oct 08 - 07:54 AM
Peace 16 Oct 08 - 08:02 AM
Sandy Mc Lean 16 Oct 08 - 08:19 AM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 08:41 AM
Bee 16 Oct 08 - 08:41 AM
Sandy Mc Lean 16 Oct 08 - 08:52 AM
Peace 16 Oct 08 - 09:30 AM
Peace 16 Oct 08 - 09:32 AM
Bee 16 Oct 08 - 10:24 AM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 10:27 AM
Little Hawk 16 Oct 08 - 11:24 AM
bankley 16 Oct 08 - 11:46 AM
GUEST,number 6 16 Oct 08 - 12:00 PM
Jim Lad 16 Oct 08 - 12:17 PM
Bee 16 Oct 08 - 12:18 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 16 Oct 08 - 01:03 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 01:05 PM
Bee 16 Oct 08 - 01:13 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 01:18 PM
meself 16 Oct 08 - 01:22 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 01:25 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM
Bee 16 Oct 08 - 02:48 PM
Little Hawk 16 Oct 08 - 03:55 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 04:10 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 04:12 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 04:43 PM
Little Hawk 16 Oct 08 - 05:05 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 05:14 PM
Little Hawk 16 Oct 08 - 05:25 PM
Peace 16 Oct 08 - 06:03 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 06:13 PM
Peace 16 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM
gnu 16 Oct 08 - 06:48 PM
GUEST,number 6 16 Oct 08 - 06:57 PM
Little Hawk 16 Oct 08 - 08:00 PM
gnu 17 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM
GUEST,number 6 17 Oct 08 - 07:10 PM
gnu 18 Oct 08 - 05:46 AM
GUEST,number 6 18 Oct 08 - 08:00 AM
meself 18 Oct 08 - 11:18 AM
Jim Lad 18 Oct 08 - 12:38 PM
Bee 18 Oct 08 - 12:56 PM
GUEST,HiLo 18 Oct 08 - 01:11 PM
gnu 18 Oct 08 - 01:17 PM
Jim Lad 19 Oct 08 - 03:43 AM
Cluin 19 Oct 08 - 11:49 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 20 Oct 08 - 10:14 AM
gnu 20 Oct 08 - 01:48 PM
gnu 20 Oct 08 - 04:28 PM
Jim Lad 21 Oct 08 - 02:03 AM
Little Hawk 21 Oct 08 - 06:31 PM
Cluin 21 Oct 08 - 11:36 PM
Little Hawk 21 Oct 08 - 11:43 PM
Jim Lad 22 Oct 08 - 04:28 AM
Ed T 29 Dec 12 - 12:13 PM
gnu 29 Dec 12 - 02:09 PM
Ed T 29 Dec 12 - 02:39 PM
gnu 29 Dec 12 - 03:40 PM
Ed T 29 Dec 12 - 03:50 PM
gnu 29 Dec 12 - 04:20 PM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 04:47 PM

How I wish!!!
Are Canadians stupid?
We are if we let him back!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 04:51 PM

Now Sandy!
Wouldn't be letting your Cape Breton roots influence you, would you?
Can't even ask you to send me updates.
Looks like the Internet will be blacked out when the Polls close in Newfoundland and Labrador.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: bobad
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 04:52 PM

I voted to that end.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 04:58 PM

Is there an election in Canada today ??


biLL      :)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: john f weldon
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 04:59 PM

One can only dream.
The trouble with "George's pal Steve" is that he plays his cards very close to his chest, and doesn't let on what his true plans are. And people forget his philosophical roots very quickly.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:02 PM

Walt Kelly was right.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:29 PM

Already voted. In Central-Nova: Louise Loredice, Elizabeth May and Peter MacKay.

Did NOT vote for Peter, as usual.

Do not know if I did the right thing though: verra verra conflicted.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:36 PM

I was the first to vote in Moncton, NB, at the advance poll. I witnessed the empty ballot box being sealed and the lass said, "We should have a prize for you as the first person to vote."

I asked, "Can you promise me a minority government?"

I pray............


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:38 PM

Mine went to the Green Party.

snowball + hot stove = chance


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:08 PM

There's a certain moral pleasure in voting for people you know have no chance of winning... ;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:13 PM

It's not all that often ya get to vote that way. If I'd thought either Libs or NDs had a chance, well, you know. It's seldom I throw my vote at lost causes, but looking at the candidates I really had no option. I couldn't vote for any of the big three. No way.

Living in Alberta has basically disenfranchised me, because I am in a minority regarding politics on damned near every issue, and if by some slip of the bean counters the Greens actually did get in, I would be happy with that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peter T.
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:15 PM

As i said to my students, check out what happened to people who just wanted to vote recently in Zimbabwe if you want to know why you should get out and vote. In spite of all the rhetoric about how it doesn't make any difference, there is nothing power really hates more than those damn citizens in those booths.

yours,

Peter T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:26 PM

Liberal government took away my vote back in the Eighties.
So did the Socreds for the Provincial vote in BC.
Lucky for yous!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:38 PM

"there is nothing power really hates more than those damn citizens in those booths."

With you on that. I think it was Archie Goodwin (of the Nero Wolfe novels by Rex Stout) who said that voting was the cheapest game in town. Didn't cost a cent and for a few seconds ya got to be boss of the whole thing. He was right. I have gone through blizzards to vote, even when it was only to mar a ballot or leave a note for the Chief Electoral Officer. There is no excuse for any reasonably well person not to vote, and not to vote imo shows a complete disrespect not for the politicians--who may rightfully deserve all the disrespect they can be shown--but rather for the people of this country.

Good post, Peter.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:29 PM

"Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?"

Looks like it's not ending in New Brunswick.

Geeezuz   .....   looks like Harper has bought us out.

I just don't understand it.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:41 PM

When will Canadians know who won? Do they do the sensible thing and tell everyone after all of the polls close, or do they do like we do here in this country and announce it while people are still voting?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:44 PM

They have tried to ameliorate that with new voting times across Canada.

Found this article.

"The news is not all bad, however, as the latest result represented an upturn. In June 2004, Canada suffered its lowest-ever voter turnout for a federal election, with only 60.9 per cent of those eligible choosing to vote.

To those who maintain their vote is meaningless, we argue that they are wrong. Politicians do pay attention to what voters think, since their future employment hangs in the balance. Those who do not vote, however, throw away that leverage.

Democracy, to stay strong, has to be exercised. Otherwise, it is in danger of withering away – and with it, the democratic rights that perhaps too many of us take for granted. Democracy is surely not a spectator sport, either; it is, by definition, participatory.

In other words, if we say we believe in the right to vote, we ought to put actions behind those words.

The political campaigns are now over. Today, Canadians choose who will govern this country, whether by minority or majority government, in the immediate future. That choice is yours, thanks to the countless battles fought long ago by people who believed the right to vote was something worth fighting for.

Exercise your right to have your say. Vote."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:45 PM

They are announcing the results from Atlantic Canada now ... 1 hour before the polls close in Quebec and Ontario ... 4 hours before the close out west.

Harper's getting slaughtered in Newfoundland. Good!

but still ... it doesn't look too promising for Canada.

And to top it all off Boston's getting beat 5-0 by Tampa Bay at the top of the 3rd inning.

Depressing evening so far.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:46 PM

I am full of gloom and considering moving to Newfoundland.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:49 PM

When you can vote:
Time zone         Polls open (local time)
Newfoundland         8:30 a.m. - 8:30 p.m.
Atlantic         8:30 a.m. - 8:30 p.m.
Eastern         9:30 a.m. - 9:30 p.m.
Central         8:30 a.m. - 8:30 p.m.
Saskatchewan         7:30 a.m. - 7:30 p.m.
Mountain         7:30 a.m. - 7:30 p.m.
Pacific         7:00 a.m. - 7:00 p.m.
Source: Elections Canada


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:50 PM

I'm buying a shack out on Deer Island and never coming back.

Part of the reason of the sell out here in New Brunsiwck was the consertative applying the fear factor of the 'Green Shift' and the equation of losing jobs.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:51 PM

Canada has a 3 1/2 hour difference in times from Nfld to BC/Yukon (as a btw).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:53 PM

I've been to Deer Island. My great-grandmother was from Campobello Island, came to Baddeck as a maid with the Bells.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Mooh
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:53 PM

NDP, though the Greens were tempting this time. I like Jack Layton and the local boy Tony McQuail, who is greener than green.

Peace, Mooh.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:53 PM

thanks Peace .... it could be 3 hours and 34 minutes ... round it off it would be 4 .... :)

ok ..... I'll shutup and go mope somewhere.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:55 PM

One more thing ... then I'm outta here.

Deer Island ... my favourite spot here in Canada. Downright beautiful and no corporate/politikal machine will ever destroy it.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:55 PM

LOL

Hey, man, this is ALBERTA. Hot bed of same old same. Conservatives will win here for sure.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 09:02 PM

"Canada has a 3 1/2 hour difference in times from Nfld to BC/Yukon (as a btw)."
4 1/2 hours, Bruce.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 09:10 PM

Hey!
I found a site that's giving out the results.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Beer
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 09:11 PM

To switch the topic for a moment.

I recall when Dad would wait and see what the Liberal/Conservatives would offer before going to vote. And here is what I mean.
Knock, knock on the door. Mr Doucette if you come and vote for us today we will give you a lift and a box of chocolates. Knock, knock. Mr Doucette, if you come and vote for us today we will give you a lift to the poling station and a pint of the finest dark rum the Maritime's have to offer. Dad's reply would be; "Now will that be two pints?, for you see my wife is voting for you as well". Oh, for sure.

Well that is the way it was for a long time and that is the way dad voted. But tell the truth in the in between years the way he spoke about the Conservatives, I'm sure that is where the "X" went.

But to finish the story, one year Mum got wind of what was happening and when she found out that votes were being bought this way, Dad never got his second pint.
Adrien


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: meself
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 10:15 PM

CBC is calling it a Tory gov't ... what can yuh say? ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 10:30 PM

it certainly looks like it ... very distressing.

I think Canada has made a big mistake tonite ... but all in all there have been gains for the Greens (small, but still significant). This at least will be a message for the future (I can only hope)

Boston losing 11 - 2 to Tampa Bay at the bottom of the 7th.

Damn ... what a gloomy evening.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 10:46 PM

Here's a dairy with links that folks may be interested in:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/14/21361/261/864/630687

[Live Blog] Canadian Election Night w/ Results Links
by ZenMaster Coltrane
Tue Oct 14, 2008 at 06:44:34 PM PDT

"Canada's 40th General Election is upon us. Only polls in British Columbia and the Yukon remain open at this time. The number to watch is 155. That is the number of seats required to form a majority government . Results from Atlantic Canada are just starting to come in. As of right now

20 LIB
10 CON
5 NDP
1 BQ
1 OTH

ZenMaster Coltrane's diary :: ::
If anyone cares...feel free.

Here are some sites to view results that will begin coming in at 10:00 pm ET.

Elections Canada
http://enr.elections.ca/

CBC
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/ridings/


SFU Election site
http://www.sfu.ca/~aheard/elections/results.html


The Parties & their Leaders

Conservative Party
Stephen Harper - Favored to win. Strong Presence in the West (Prairies and BC). Bush-lite. Basically, if the Conservatives make inroads in Ontario they will have a shot at a majority.

Liberal Party
Stephane Dion - Party of Pierre Trudeau. Favored to be the opposition party. Dion lacks the communicative skills of previous French Canadian Liberal leaders.

New Democratic Party
Jack Layton - Solid communicator heading a party that is spread too thin nationally...resulting in less seats than the popular vote suggests.

Green Party
Elizabeth May - I believe no Green MP has ever been elected.

Bloc Quebecois
Gille Duceppe - Federal party committed to the protection of Quebec and its sovereignty. Power is overrepresented because all of their vote is concentrated in Quebec. They got 10.5% of the national vote in 2006 as compared to 17.5% for the NDP yet the Bloc won 51 seats as compared to 29 for the NDP"...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 10:48 PM

Oh, have the results of the elections been called already?

My sympathies to you from one an American who doesn't know that much about Harper but what I know I don't like.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 10:51 PM

It's like this with Harper. If Bush stopped short, the only thing that would keep Harper from going all the way in would be his shoulders.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 10:59 PM

I still don't feel as depressed as I did the night Mulroney won the election, though.

That's gotta mean somethin'.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:17 PM

The one thing that concerns me with this election is the fact that the Liberals are who are the majority of the minority are weak, and unfocused, the Bloc are well, the Bloc and are only concerned about Quebec and then the New Dems are too small in seat holdings that they won't have a significant effect.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:25 PM

The one thing I can say for the Bloc is that often what they want from the federal government(except when it comes to big job-making projects) is usually good for the rest of the country. I'm not that unhappy with the Bloc.

I'm much more unhappy with the ultra-conservative mindset that seems to be heavily concentrated in Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia. BC may have the big Mary jane farms, but they have a whackin huge number of Harper lovers, too.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: bobad
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:29 PM

We can all bestow a little gratitude onto the BQ tonight for saving us from a Conservative majority, a small mercy but it could have been much worse.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:32 PM

Hmmm ... true Bobad, true.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:35 PM

How'dit end up?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:36 PM

Well ... for us who voted Green or New Dems we shouldn't feel we threw our votes away ... these counts will provide some inspiration for the future (young) voters that there is some hope and need that the old guard (of the machine) must go. Hopefully the next time it will be different. It has to be.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:38 PM

at present ...

143 con
75 libs
50 bloc
38 ndp
2 other


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:39 PM

Next time I see Elizabeth, though, I'm givin' her a good boot in the arse. I'd like to see the woman win a seat, but she essentially blew that possibility by running against Mackay, and also likely screwed Louise Loredice out of more than a few votes. Elizabeth's people were literally trolling for NDP voters last week in my riding; I had two begging calls myself, with the 'just this once' line.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:39 PM

This is one election wherein I voted my conscience.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:39 PM

make that

144 con
74 libs


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:40 PM

me too

And that's the way it should be.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:42 PM

Bee ... That I found strange ... why she would run in the New Glasgow riding against the creep MacKay ... his family pretty well has that riding in their pocket.

Overall, I do admire her.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: meself
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:19 AM

At least it's another minority ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: meself
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:27 AM

From what the talking heads are saying, it sounds like if Dion doesn't resign, his fellow-Liberals will have the long knives out for him. But who do they have that's any better?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:38 AM

Yeah. Boy, it's a damn shame that Chongo doesn't have dual citizenship, eh? ;-) I have a feeling he's going to be a free agent after the American election is over in November. He'd be way better than Dion, and he'd blow Harper right off the stage.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:45 AM

As for the Liberals, there's a significant cadre that really likes Ignatieff, for whom I frankly don't care at all - in quite a few ways, he's more bush-lite than Harper, too hawkish by far, and was thirty years out of Canada.

Elizabeth, I think, never thought she had a chance, was surprised to win the fight to get into the debate. I think initially she thought running against MacKay would raise her profile nationally because of it being Peter.

I do admire Elizabeth to some extent, but I think she has the capacity to be ruthless about people. I also wish she'd quit name-dropping - she makes damn sure everybody knows that she personally knows Bill Clinton. Her family came here (to Margaree) from the states when she was quite young. Her parents were eccentric to say the least, nice enough people, but they riled people in Margaree regularly by promoting environmental issues that directly adversely affected their neighbours.

Margaree was what you might call 'insular'. I knew an old Acadian man in the area whose main source of pride was that he'd used a draft horse and a stone sledge to clear the entire side of a mountain on his farm over the years. That and the twenty-one children he and his wife had. (I love that family, actually - they were very kind to me).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:00 AM

"and he'd blow Harper right off the stage."

I wish someone would. It'd loosen him up a bit, imo.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:15 AM

I enjoyed that.
Not the result I was hoping for but a healthy mandate just the same.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:27 AM

Healthy is 50% plus one. His governemnt will fall within a year and a half, imo.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:55 AM

No way to know, Bruce.
The names and faces are about to change so fast,
you'll think you're in a time warp.
Ignatieff and Dusanj are already making noises about Dion.
Harper & Layton may be safe. Hard to say.
Ms. May is Probably toast.
Watch Duceppe though.
By this time tomorrow, Quebeccers will really be
asking themselves some tough questions.
Like "Why did we just vote for the only party
that doesn't participate?".
They vote for the Bloc but expect the elected government
to take care of them.
Time those guys crossed the floor to whichever party each of them wants and fold up the damn tent.
"If it's good for Quebec" is getting old and spoiling elections.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:01 AM

Canada voter turnout lowest on record:

Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:04am EDT (Reuters) - Canadians shunned the polls during Tuesday's general election with the lowest voter turnout on record, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation said.

Some 58 percent of eligible Canadian voters went to the polls on election day, based on preliminary results, breaking the previous record low turnout of just under 61 percent in 2004, the CBC said.

Election Canada officials were not immediately available to comment on Wednesday morning.

Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper, the first Western leader to face the electorate since the start of the global financial crisis, won reelection with a bolstered minority government.

(Reporting by Richard Valdmanis; Editing by Eric Walsh)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 07:00 AM

"there's a significant cadre that really likes Ignatieff, ... he's more bush-lite than Harper"

Bee, I'd fear he's more Bush-heavy than Harper. I started off liking his intelligence but, (((((shudder)))) oh boy, he ain't no PET reincarnate. (So Son of Pierre made it in, I see?)

And I really have to say (again) that Canada needs to get some sort of proporational representation voting system. NOT the one they tried to sell in Ontario of late - but SOME type. For the Bloc to get 10% of the popular vote and 50 seats, and NDP to get 18.2% and 37 seats is just stupid.

sian


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 07:06 AM

Coulda been worse. I figure it was Carbonehead.

58%... shameful!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Raptor
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 07:35 AM

I'd gladly pay a carbon tax.

No one else gives a shit about the environment.

Those who voted NDP or otherwise keep telling yourself that spitting votes against baby-bush didn't get us another dysfuntional government.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 07:48 AM

Sian, I never thought he was any more intelligent than average; he just sounds that way because he's an academic. I've never heard him say anything of much real substance, just a fair amount of gung-ho send-the-boys-to-war crap back when he was running for the Liberal leadership, which he may get now. I'd guess it's the only reason he's still in Canada, hoping for that chance to make a grab for power.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:03 AM

Although that elections over, folks here may be interested in reading this daily kos diary and its comments:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/14/83926/514/541/630017
Canada: an overview of where things stand
by heritage watch
Tue Oct 14, 2008 at 06:20:43 AM PDT

**

That diary begins with a listing and succient explanation of Canada's provinces and those provinces' politics going into last nights' election:

"Now for a quick tour of Canada.

NEWFOUNDLAND: The Tories (Conservatives) held the three St. John's seats, the Liberals the four rural ones, but they are the victim of Danny William's ABC campaign and may be shut out. It is all but guaranteed that St. John's East will go NDP, while the other two will probably go Liberal. NDP has a small chance still in St. John's South.

P.E.I.: Completely Liberal since 1988, the two westernmost seats are too close to call, given that Dion's Green Shift came down like a lead balloon here.

NOVA SCOTIA: The NDP has their best Maritime results here and have improved during the campaign. They have 2 very close targets and an outside chance in 3 others. The Tories need to hold Central Nova from the NDP and Green leader Elizabeth May, the South Shore from the NDP and possibly grab West Nova from the Grits (Liberals). The Liberals have nothing to look forward to; Independent Sean Casey will have no problems.

NEW BRUNSWICK: The best prospects for the Tories are here in the Western, Anglophone half of the province, with 3 potential gains. Whether the NDP vote can be squeezed will decide the outcome.

QUEBEC: The Bloc managed to beat back the Tories and is threatening them in the Saguenay and Quebec City. An NDP vote squeeze is key; advance voting in Quebec City is VERY HIGH. Elsewhere they're pretty much set to go.
Montreal is a bit different, where they must defend two very vulnerable seats from the Grits. Both MPs were in one of their ads, and face the former MP in one and Justin Trudeau in the other. The NDP needs to hold Outremont, which should'nt be too hard, and possibly snatch Westmount although this is unlikely.
In Gatineau one Liberal and one BQ MP must stave off the NDP; Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon should be reelected.

ONTARIO: It appears the Liberals have regained the lead. The NDP is quite strong in the province, possibly as high as 26%, and needs to protect one endangered incumbent in Hamilton, make a few gains in the South and romp in the North, mostly at the Liberals expense. It is unclear if and how much the Tories will extend into Toronto; the 416 area code is OK for the Liberals except downtown. Gerard Kennedy was trailing in a recent poll, another poll has the Grit lead there over the NDP cut by two-thirds which could precipitate a couple of losses.

MANITOBA: St. Boniface could fall to the Tories, Churchill in the North to the NDP.

SASKATCHEWAN: The NDP have a couple of too-close-to-cll targets but have improved recently. The Liberals will hold Wascana but not regain the seat they lost in the recent by-election.

ALBERTA: Safe, safe Tory. Well, one exception. Edmonton-Strathcona is too close and some Liberals plan to vote strategically.

B.C.: Whoa! polling is a bit all over the place. The Tories expect to pick up at least 4 seats on the basis of a low Liberal vote. The NDP might pick off a couple, but must defend the open Surrey North and ultra-maginal Vancouver Island North. The Liberals only have a chance in Saanich-Gulf Islands against Nat. Res. Min. Gary Lunn, where the NDP candidate withdrew. The Greens might be out of luck; their best results are here.

NORTH: Yukon: Liberal NWT: NDP win with fairly strong Tories. NUNAVUT: Too close, but the Tories may pick this open seat up from the Grits."

-snip-

Here's one comment from that diary:

this beginning sentence refers to comments written by other posters one who said that Harper is the Sarah Palin of Canadian politics and one who said, among other things, that Harper is a realist

"My view

Markmc03 is too cruel and Doctor Nick is too kind.

Harper is a LOONEY, no question, BUT unlike American LOONEY's he has PROMISED to keep his wingnut religious views OUT of his governing. And SO FAR has kept his word. In Canada the Conservatives are actually a coalition of the Reform Party (the wingnut party Harper comes from) and the Conservatives (what would be the civilized, small government, fiscal conservative end of the Republican Party).

On the other hand Nick is too unconcerned about Harper's Fundy connections. Many Conservative ridings are controlled by the Fundy wing of that party. I DO NOT trust Harper to keep the crazy-right at bay IF he has a Majority government.

Personally, I hope that a Liberal (centerist Democrat) / NDP (Social Democrats - leftist Kucinich type Democrats) coalition government would win.

The results ARE NOW IN and show a Conservative Minority. Any MINORITY is better than a Conservative Majority.

The governing party in Canada for MOST of the last 100 years has been the middle of the road Liberals (by US standards they are left center) this election they had a leader (Dion) who was very poor in English and couldn't win Ontario (think California + NY as far as impact is concerned). Dion will step down and his replacement will bring the Liberals up enough so that next time the Liberals will at least trade places with the Conservatives.

Canada is basically a small "L" liberal country. Moderate - sober - universal health - law abiding.

Very much what the US should bebut has never been able to achieve".

by Mylegacy on Tue Oct 14, 2008 at 09:22:17 PM PDT

**

Also, this comment and lyrics were included in another comment from that diary:

"I suppose while waiting for the news to come "riding" in :-)...you could try humming this to a certain tune.

O Canada
our home and native land....
We vote today
clos-ing a 6 week campaign
From the Maritimes
to Saskatchewan we'll cast our votes in thee.
Our Mounties vo-ting in Yellow Knife
A Palin menace they can see!
God keep our land
Cheney-Bush free
O Canada we stand on guard for thee
O Canada our bacon is tas-tee!"

by WineRev on Tue Oct 14, 2008 at 06:43:53 AM PDT


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: bankley
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:13 AM

Duceppe bloqs Harper, the puck stops here... leave it to a Que. 'Nationalist' to give the whole country a reprieve from a full throttle Bubble Boy Bilderberg agenda....
now the PM will have to get even more sneaky...

$300,000,000 later...



congrats to Justin Trudeau...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:23 AM

In regards to the Peace post "Canada voter turnout lowest on record"

In regards to my first post in this thread ... "Is there an election in Canada today ??"

... that's the problem ... all summed up it = apathy.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:44 AM

Yeh, Bee, you're probably right. At one point (some years ago) Ignatieff was probably better 'known' to British BBC Radio 4 listeners than he was (is?) to Canadians. He seemed to be cropping up a lot, commentating on various things. He was, quite often, interesting. Then he pops up in Canada, running for party leader, and I had a chance to form a whoooooole different opinion of him.

Good luck Canada - you're gonna need it.

sian


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 10:07 AM

Well, I'm not as scared of Harper as some - that's a man who loves power, loves being PM, and will do anything to hold onto it, even when that means caving to socialist concerns. In his first election, he muzzled the more right-wing fundies in his own party, and has not let them off-leash since gaining power. I doubt he will through this government, either. I also think, contrary to some, that the man actually does love his country and means well: I just don't often agree with what he thinks is good for the country. I also think he hasn't been very fiscally responsible - the Liberals, astoundingly, seem much better at economics.

I do not want to see an Ignatieff led Liberal party, although it's an outside possibility that making him leader would marginalize the Liberal left so much that it would give the NDP an actual shot at forming government.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 10:20 AM

Well Harper stays at the helm with less than 38% of the vote. He calls that a mandate! 62% of voters didn't want the bastard!      Democracy this ain't!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 11:29 AM

Take comfort, Sandy: Canadians destroyed the Conservatives before, we can do it again if they get too uppity.

ABC worked for Nfld and Lab., the rest of us can see that it's an option.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:24 PM

In Alberta, conservatives are solid; people I talked to would prefer a more forceful leader, but voted Harper if they voted at all. Usually support signs are fairly common on lawns, but in my area, they were rare, and only joking talk at the local cafes.

The Greens came in second in a couple of Calgary ridings (although a small percentage), explained by some as "I don't like Harper, but the Liberals are dead, so what the hell!"

I am not disparaging the Greens, its aims are laudable, but much of their vote in Calgary seems to be just a protest against the two major parties here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:54 PM

There's a guy who comes to our song circle and the particular bee in his bonnet is that he hates ALL politicians so much that he wants everyone to STOP voting. His wish is that all people in Canada should stop voting so as to bring the system grinding to a halt.

This is a wish somewhat akin to Don Quixote's quest in its utter futility, but he goes on and on about it.

I sure hope I'm never in the same room if he happens to run into one of you who is so passionate about the importance of everyone getting out and voting.... ;-) Man, what a shitstorm that would turn into.

Me, I don't care either way. If a person wants to vote, fine and good. If they don't want to...(shrug)...that's up to them.

Just don't tell me I have to do it your way, that's all...whatever way your way is. I don't have to do it any particular way. I might choose to vote. I might not. Life will go on in Canada regardless of what I do, and it's no one else's concern as to what my choice might be...nor is it my concern as to what theirs might be.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:06 PM

The man is an excellent manager.
Not sure where your coming from, Sandy but name calling does nothing to strengthen any argument.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:07 PM

Given that challenge, I will now devote my life to making Little Hawk do things my way.

I'll sing GRITS if you don't, LH, I swear I will. <cue ominous twang of poorly tuned guitar...>


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:10 PM

Ha! ;-) Good luck. My dad tried to make me do things his way for almost 60 years. He died 2 years ago without having ever succeeded in that objective.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:15 PM

If Harper does last 4 years, Justin will be almost 42... I'd like to see Frank get in for about 8 to 10 years and train Justin and then... look out... he could build upon what Frank would build. Wow man!

Hey, I wished for a minority and it came true... why not wish big?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:17 PM

I wished for a minority government too. By gosh, the election turned out as I had hoped it would!

This could be a first.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:23 PM

My vote for the Green Party didn't give Harper this election. I live in Yellowhead riding, and last election Merrifield--a good man, btw--won with over 20,000 votes. His nearest competitor had something in the area of 7,000 votes.I think I recall that had the three other big parties (Lib, ND and Cristian Heritage Party (don't ask)) put their votes together, Merrifield would still have won. I try my best to vote for the folks who will fuck us up slowest. As for the Bloc, back in the early late 1970s, the rest of Canada turned its back on us when we were stripped of our English language rights with Bill 101, often referred to as Bill 401, the 401 being the multi-lane highway that goes from Montreal to Toronto. The problem this election was neither the Bloc nor the Conservatives! It was the NDs and the Liberals. They are so damned worried about THEIR philosophies running the country and THEIR seats that they could not negotiate common ground to combine and win a minority election. My first words to anyone in Alberta other than the friend I drove out with in 1976/7 occurred in a Calgary bar when some loud-mouthed son of a bitch talked in a loud voice about how bad the French were. I told him to go fuck himself, and that if westerners had half the balls they thought they did, English speakers in Quebec wouldn't be hiding in classrooms teaching English to new immigrants. Yes, they hid because it was illegal to teach people from other countries English, and the 'language police' were always looking for people who were doing so. Not ONE province in this country supported us in Quebac. NOT ONE! I was in Quebec when the FLQ was active. I despise them and all they stand for, but where were MY fellow Canadians when we got fucked by Bill 101? Where?

As a btw, half my family is French. And I was one of those who returned to Quebec for the VERY close vote regarding Quebec's separation. That time my vote really counted. This time? Fuck the Liberals and NDs for being such wimp-asses that they put themselves before this country.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:43 PM

Right on Peace! Disgusting.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:58 PM

You're quite correct, Bruce. The Liberals and the NDP should merge into a single party at this point, but they'd both have to put aside their innate self-centeredness to do that...and they won't. They both want to be the only number one. Too bad for Canada.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:13 PM

Oh sure, Little Hawk, but your dad probably never sang Ghost Riders in the Sky at you. (I like that song, dang it; too bad it's so often ridiculed by the masses).

On party leaders: we ain't got none. I'm beginning to think like my father in law: "He ain't no Diefenbaker.", and that goes for all of them. Hell, none of them are even a Jean Chretien, or a Trudeau, let alone a Pearson. I've been an NDP supporter for many years, but Layton is embarassing. Can we elect Rick Mercer next time around?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:17 PM

77 + 37 = 114 ???

And, the Ls are struggling with infighting as it is. What would a merger do?

Better that they stay as is? Or am I missing sommat?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:23 PM

It's like fighting, Gnu. YOU set the timing and tempo. A united party would gain momentum and give some of the 42% who didn't vote an option other than "The Cons are getting in anyway, so why waste my time." That's how I see it, anyway. Hell, I've been wrong before.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:54 PM

Your math is in error, gnu. Had the Liberal and NDP votes not in effect cancelled each other out in various ridings which the Conservatives won, the Conservatives would not have won those ridings...and they would not have gained nearly as many ridings.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:55 PM

It's all Politiks guys ..... I just vote for the least mainstream and most radical candidate who is distanced farthest from the machine and who would deliver the most positive radical social humanaity minded changes .... in most cases these inidividuals never get voted in ... but my vote is a number somewhere along with others inidcating that there are those of us out their demanding a much needed change from the status quo.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:59 PM

That's what I usually do too. I laugh when I think of how this is all going to look from a much more distant vantage point...such as beyond this life.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:06 PM

It's hilarious when you really think about LH.

somewhat sad, yes ... but damned hilarious in a keystone cop (politican style) sort of way.

iLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:19 PM

Jeez!
As mathematicians, you make great musicians.
Uniting the left would make it into a two horse race and would certainly give folks a clear choice.
However, that's not to say that the Conservatives wouldn't get a lot of those votes too.
The real problem goes back to what I said, way up there, about Paul Martin moving too far to the left.
He gave up the centre.
The Conservatives took over and since then, there has been no party on the right.
The real solution would probably present itself in the collapse of the Liberal party.
The Liberals can't get the centre back and the NDP, which has always been the protest party, is too well established to be pushed aside.
Keep in mind too that despite what the pundits say, this is as close to a majority as any party can reasonably expect to be as long as one self interest group clings to 50 out of 75 seats.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:01 PM

LH... well, if yer gonna say that they should do, how can you predict what they will do, if they haven't done? I am dealing with the math as it stands.

If we are allowed to conjecture... Frank for PM and he gives Justin a bunch of portfolios so that he can continue where Frank leaves off in 12 to 16 years.... if we get through the next 4 years.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: bobad
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:10 PM

Hey gnu, tell us why you think Frankie would make a good PM.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:12 PM

Well...why don't you and JimLad see if you can sort it out, gnu. You both seem to have very definite ideas about the math. ;-)

I'm simply suggesting that the Liberals and the NDP swallow their pride...the way the PC's and Reform did some years back...and amalgamate into a single party.

Or...we get proportional representation.

Or...I buy a new set of guitar strings.

Whatever. ;-)

I am not going to lose much sleep over the matter, that's for sure.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:56 PM

If the Libs and NDP had gotten more seats than Harper they could and perhaps would have formed a coalition and demanded that the GovGen. hand power to them. Now however, the Libs are so weak that they will cower before Harper's imtimidation as they have done for the past couple of years. Parliament, not the PM's office should rule the country but the system of brown nosing MP's with more loyalty to their leader than their electorate corrupts any concept of democracy.
It is long past time to change the system but those in power never have any desire to do so. That is why I call them bastards!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:04 PM

Is the guy at the song circle who doesn't like politicians John Ashe?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:18 PM

"I'm simply suggesting that the Liberals and the NDP swallow their pride...the way the PC's and Reform did some years back...and amalgamate into a single party."

Exactly what I said before.
This from the Canada Debates thread, Oct 4th

"Paul Martin did a good job of leaning to far to the left into NDP territory. That and his unending campaign of going after his retired boss has driven a lot of people away from the Liberal fold.
The real dilemma for the Liberal party is that they have to reclaim parts of their identity while asking the electorate to forget the corruption and divisions within.
Tough job.
You either have to unite with a party of "New ideas" and change your brand a couple of times (which the Conservatives did) or completely fold and start again. (which seems to be their destiny."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 07:07 PM

Well as finance minister Paul Martin was way to the right. He cut millions in health care transfers to the provinces and the ripples are still being felt. He also robbed the U.I. funds to build his budget surplusses. I don't think that he was PM long enough to do much damage but I never regarded him as being left of centre. I always thought it a paradox that anyone wanting to be Prime Minister would re-flag his fleet of ships with foreign colours. He was neither a patriot or a leader of vision but his weak leadership opened the door for Harper. I think that the biggest problem that the left wing unification has is the number of seats held by the Bloc. That is a merger that can never happen.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 07:08 PM

No, Carol. Reasonable guess, though. John does hate all politicians, all right, but he also votes...because he hates the right wing reactionary ones a bit less than he hates the ones on the Left. ;-) So I'm guessing he voted Conservative. He figures the Conservatives are WAY too liberal, of course...but they're the only game in town for John as it stands at the moment. Heh!

It's another person I was referring to, but I shouldn't really say his name here. I don't think you've ever met him.


Jim Lad - Yeah. We seem to agree on that, eh? ;-)


Look, I know how this works. People acquire a natural and instinctive loyalty to one or another brand of politics, generally pretty early on in life. Chances are about 19 or 20 to 1 that they will simply see things from that angle on for the rest of their lives...and they'll think they're being totally logical and objective all the while as they do so...but they're not. They're replaying old repetitious emotional tapes, rehashing old loyalties and grudges, and they're filling in the "logic" and the "facts" afterwards to suit the emotion.

I acquired a natural loyalty to the Left early on. I have friends who think exactly the other way around...anything on the Left rings danger bells in their psyche, regardless of the circumstances, and they don't really know why. But they can come up with a million logical-sounding reasons why. Just ask them. I feel that way about anything on the Right...it rings danger bells in my psyche. I instinctively despise the Right.

The really sad part, though, is this: when it comes to all the other stuff in life, outside of politics...and I mean the day-to-day stuff that actually matters.....these friends and I find ourselves in agreement, although we can't agree on politics.

That's why I call politics the Great Divider. It's a curse upon our lives, in my opinion...because the way it's been set up with competing parties and idealogies it is based on conflict. You cannot often secure a healthy result in a society from a system that is based on conflict. A political campaign is a war without firearms, and wars are an attempt to destroy someone. Not good. Not good at all. It's a waste of our better nature.

That's why I'd like to see all political parties abolished...a seated parliament of independents with no party affiliation...and then parliament would be an assembly of equals rather than a division into the empowered and the opposition.

An assembly of equals can discuss things as equals and arrive at a sensible decision (with 2/3 assent necessary) together...NOT spend their time committing cynical character assassination upon one another, which is what our present system has devolved into.

The party system is a travesty, a lunacy, an obscenity, and I believe it will be recognized as such in some distant future era when people have adopted a far better and wiser system.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:12 PM

You hit a good point with this L.H. ... "brand of politics"

Politiks has become a marketing box store for the party brands ... like everything else, the brand becomes more important the the contents.

interesting theory about all parties becoming abolished ... I like it ... along with no religions, no borders.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:25 PM

I've always been on the centre left but for the reasons I have previously stated, (regarding the Liberals) have made the switch.
I'm guessing that the day when your social status/religion dictates your party affiliation is gradually dissipating.
There are some values however that cannot be compromised.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:40 PM

A lotteried jury-system with an opt-out provision would be a good alternative to the party system. Television/polling has essentially ruined a leader-driven party process: it is all horse race all the time.

yours,

Peter T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: black walnut
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:47 PM

I'm coming in late to this discussion. I'm from inner Toronto - and the big city cores cried out "Liberal!". Why? Because Harper ignores cities. Did you know that Toronto carries the TTC load on its own back? Countries around the world know that public transit has to be supported by all levels of government.

I voted Green by the way, being quite sure that my Liberal candidate would get in and beat the Tories.....so I thought I'd give Liz a pat on the back for a mighty fine showing this time around. What spunk!

~b.w.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 11:28 PM

Oh, I can well understand why you would have abandoned the Liberals, Jim Lad. ;-) I have essentially fairly much abandoned the Liberals, the Conservatives, and even my old favorites the NDP. I don't believe in any of them anymore. I tend to vote more strategically now, since there's no one out there that I have any real confidence in (as a party, I mean). If I really like an individual I'll vote for him fairly much regardless of party...depending on the general situation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:09 AM

Hey! Just found out from Bee that I know Elizabeth May's brother, sister in law and father.
Extremely resourceful family.
LH: I'd follow Martha Hall Findlay or Brian Tobin.
Other than that; I am pleased with Stephen Harper's performance and don't give much stock to the media characterisation of the man.
As for the hidden agenda.... I firmly believe that the first time he manages to get a majority government, he will see to it that poverty and corruption on Canada's Native Reserves will become no more than a footnote in this country's history pages.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:09 AM

bobad.... during the ten years Frank McKenna was Premier of New Brunswick, he steered this "have-not" province toward an economic recovery that was remarkable and is still the envy of many in Canada as it continues to build upon his groundwork. Each time I heard him speak, or read his words, he was consumate in every way... the man inspired true confidence... ya just knew Frank was there to get the job done and done right. And, he did. A truly honourable man.

There is only one thing I "don't like" abnout Frank. He has said, when asked about becoming leader of the Liberals, "No." Of course, it's understandable that he wants to enjoy family and life after giving so much of himself to public service... disappointing tho.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 07:54 AM

Well Dion will soon take that "long walk on a short plank."
Frank McKenna's and Brian Tobin's names will be bantered about but perhaps neither will be willing to take on such a long term committment. The in house duo of Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum have their knives all sharpened to carve the turkey but I don't think that the electorate will tolerate eitrher one. The crown awaits Justin but he needs time to learn the ropes. To quote his father "Fuddle Duddle!"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:02 AM

Probably perfumes his farts, gets his hair done in a salon and washes his hands after he pees. That is what this country has come to. From Sir John A to THIS?

FMG!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:19 AM

Yes Jim,
Elizabeth's family has lived in Margaree for many years and they have been very active in the community. However their concerns for the environment has often been in conflict with people who make their living from the forest and the sea. During the spruce budworm outbreak years ago Elizabeth headed the anti pesticide spray group. Locals who feared for their living never really forgave her, although history has proven her to have been right. That is why she could not run in her Cape Breton home riding and have any hope of winning election.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:41 AM

Sandy.... some say yes.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:41 AM

Sandy, she's learned a lot about communicating since those days. She was very young and her style, coupled with her mother's style, didn't win her a lot of friends.

They're a touchy lot down in the Margarees - great people, but quick to take an insult and hold onto it for dear life.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:52 AM

True enough Bee! My own roots lie deep there.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 09:30 AM

I'm talking about Harper, Lest there is any doubt.

Probably uses napkins instead of his jeans. Hair spray. Designer shirts.
And that's his friggin' day off! Is anybody else pissed of with Canadians? I'm so damned mad right now that I don't know whether to shit, wind my watch or steal third! These people we send to Ottawa seem to see us this way, and it's no wonder why.

We badly need men and women of vision to represent the people of this country. Instead, we fund and support a school for bureaucrats. Dammit, I want someone running the show who will stand up to any other foreign leader and keep Canada and its people--NOT big business--foremost in his or her mind. Dammit, countries are not businesses, countries are people.

It is not nostalgia that makes me think of folks like Tommy Douglas, a man I rank amongst saints; Pierre Trudeau, good intellect and lots of verve; the Chief, mad as a wet cat shaking his jowls, but he made it clear they were CANADIAN jowls; Lester B who brought us great honour as a nation and a token of the world's appreciation was presented to him in Stockholm. And of course, Sir John A, and if I get started on him this'll be a three page post.

Our leaders were distinct, and they put the Canadian people first--not themselves and their corporate friends. And what makes me think of them is a fear that my children will know people with that altruistic political quality only in history books.

Canada has always been a nation of mavericks. We've maintained that for hundreds of years. And it's slipping away. Makes me want to sing "Pretty Boxes".

Anyway, thank you for letting me get that off my chest. I feel better now. Your patience is appreciated.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 09:32 AM

Sorry. Hadn't read the last five or so posts.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 10:24 AM

Sandy, you'll appreciate this story, then, if you don't already know it.

There was a well-known photographer living down there, and he was on visiting terms with a local family, an elderly couple. One day, as he approached the door, he saw that the lady of the house was on her knees, apron on, bandana over her hair, scrubbing the stone doorstep. The mountain backdrop there is awesome, the house was old and quaint, the woman old fashioned and picturesque - no photographer could have resisted! He snapped the picture.

Well! The indignation of the lady in question knew no bounds! How dare he take her picture when she was in such a state! In her housework clothes! A kerchief on! On her knees with a scrub brush and bucket no less!

I believe it was years before she forgave him and he was welcome in their home again.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 10:27 AM

We got em, Peace. Just gotta find a way to get em elected... ie, cut thru the bullshit and get em elected.... what you said.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 11:24 AM

Peace, you gotta remember this: Never expect too much from either politicians or the political system, and you will never be too badly disappointed. ;-)

The reason we had finer leaders back then was because the whole nature of Canada was different back then and the men reflected to a great extent the country that was behind them.

We were still a country with a strongly traditional and distinct identity then. We had a Canadian culture. We don't anymore. The reason why is that it has been so watered down by the saturation of American media and by multiculturalism that being "Canadian" doesn't mean much anymore...aside from a few jokes about hosers, toques, Maple Syrup, and guys who holler "Tabernac"...

You follow me on that? I remember what Canada was, and it ain't there anymore. Oh, the land is there, the population is there, but the uniquely Canadian culture that once stood proud and free has vanished under an avalanche of stuff like Britney Spears, CNN, O.J.Simpson, Brangelina, and reality TV.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: bankley
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 11:46 AM

" Passchendaele " opens tomorrow... look fwd to seeing it... made mostly in Alberta, timely... talk about a gritty episode in our history and the forging of a national identity...

good for Paul Gross... I like his later work, esp H2O... again, the artists remind us of who we are and sometimes how we got here..


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:00 PM

In regards to LH's post above (which I agree) ... I'll add that the world is not as it was back then also. It's all changing and we are going to have to let go of a lot of "traditional values" and get on with the new. But we need to hold onto to human values as a whole ... meaning reaching out and letting go of borders. Borders are like walls, providing false protection and an illusion of who and what we are. Walls eventually collapse.

Just my haypenny of a thought .... but there it is anyway.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:17 PM

It was all worth it just to get rid of Garth Turner.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:18 PM

Depends on where you are, LH, and how much one really delves into the differences. Here's my philosophizin' for the day.

One on one, in a social atmosphere, there most often doesn't seem to be much difference between Canadians and Americans. Scratch the surface a little, though, and one often discovers profoundly divergent philosophies and beliefs, on government, on society, on freedom, even on individuality.

For example, Libertarianism is on the rise in the US, with plenty of people who might not elect a Libertarian but who sympathize deeply with a lot of their basic concepts. Most Canadians are somewhat horrified by Libertarianism.

I had a conversation with an American online recently. I like this person - he's funny, intelligent, compassionate. The topic was the horrors of dog-fighting and whether making it legal would mitigate the horror of it - most vehemently disagreed. The ethics of big game trophy hunting came up as a side issue. And here's where the conversation went all Libertarian. A fair number of Americans chimed in, and the essence of their thoughts on the issue was that the 'nanny state' had no business making laws about ethical hunting. People should be able to make their own minds up, and in fact, on second thought, it probably was an infringement on individual freedom to even make dog-fighting illegal. Here's a quote: "It is about allowing people freedom, even when that allows some the freedom to do things we don't agree with. I don't feel it is the job of the Government to force people to adhere to my personal ethics."

I think Canadians are considerably more likely to want to legislate based on consensus. I'm not saying one or the other is the better philosophy. I'm just suggesting our philosophies on the whole are still quite different.

Sure, we are saturated by American media, but I tend to think we overestimate the effects of that. We watch it, but through the eyes of being Canadian, and whatever that may mean depending on our own background and experience.

I suspect we are more impacted by our large and diverse urban immigrant population, forcing us to face the world and open our minds, than by American media. And it's interesting that the cities with the largest immigrant populations are the cities that have elected no Conservative MPs.

About half of Canada's population is still rural, and the smallest numbers of immigrants live in rural areas. That's where you'll find the mostly white, mostly Scottish/Irish/English/French descendants of early settlement whose culture is likely the one of whose demise you're lamenting.

Are we changing? Yes, of course we are - change or die, eh? But I don't think we are changing into Americans - we're on a different path, and where that leads remains to be seen.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:03 PM

Come January Stephen Harper's nose will be forcibly removed from George W's arse. We can only hope at that time he will see a broader horizon. When he was in opposition he wanted us to invade Iraq but of course he was following his nose!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:05 PM

I see the Grits issued a statement denying Stevie Deux would make a statement today re stepping down. The statement was, "We will properly advise the media when M. Dion is prepared to speak publicly."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:13 PM

New Liberal leader? ABI, please - Anybody But Ignatieff.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:18 PM

Can't see Stephy stepping down right away, anyway. Only reason to do so is in case the Tories fall and I don't imagine they want to be perceived as causing another election in the near future... I think that would descimate them as bad as the Tories crashed and burned a short while ago. A good strategy for Harper to go after IF he can find an issue to use for that purpose without offending Canucks tooo much.

It has been the liberal strategy for quite a while to determine who will be the next leader and keep that person under wraps such that s/he can't get their foot in their mouth until the last minute. Martin was the latest example... he literally disappeared for a long time... so much so that there were media reports that he wouldn't even seek the leadership. Months at a time went by where he was absolutely silent, supposedly in disfavour with Jean.

In keeping with that strategy, my best guess is that he will stay on at least until next summer... probably until the following summer... but ya never know, eh?

Ya don't suppose they'll play the Separassion Card again? Nahhhh...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: meself
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:22 PM

"the woman old fashioned and picturesque - no photographer could have resisted!"

Yeah - many old fashioned and picturesque people don't think of themselves in those terms, and in fact resent being so thought of by others. There was the sad case of a photographer who was shot and killed in the Appalachians (Kentucky?) when he 'couldn't resist' back in the 'sixties. I'm sure some American 'Catters could supply the name and place.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:25 PM

Ignatieff? Good lord NO!

Tobin has been mentioned a lot. I'd vote for him, but a lot of Canucks wouldn't. I recall a joke from his era... Quebec wanted to build a wall around itself and he dispatched every Newfie he could spare to help. When asked why he sent them, he said, "Soon as she's done, we're gonna pump er full and make a fuckin fish pond outta er."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM

Sorry... thread creep, but I just gotta!

I was in St. John's. Coast Guard HQ. Me, my boss from Moncton, and the fed DM, Transport - Marine were meeting with several fed Coast Guard (local) and a half dozen provicial politicians and senior silly servants. It was not long after Meech Lake and Mount Cashel.

After intros, my boss started the meeting with an ice breaker... "We are here to form a position of mutual respect and effort to accomplish an important task. I know relationships have been strained a bit lately. Many Newfoundlanders are tired of having politics shoved down their throats and religion shoved up their asses... or vice versa." Well, you coulda heard a pin drop in international waters. The silence was deafening and it lasted for a good ten seconds, until the Newfies took to laughing, whereupon everyone let loose. I had to wipe my eyes!

The meeting was over in less than an hour. And, we all walked away with a concensus. The policy agreement we reached that day is still in effect and working well, for all concerned. Makes me smile every time I recall that silence.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:48 PM

Gnu, good story.

I got to thinking what it is, besides his retracted-later support for the Iraq war, why it is that I dislike and distrust Ignatieff. I thought that I'm maybe not very fair and going on guts instead of thinking it through. So I did a bit of reading. Most of the following articles got tossed up when he was about to run for the Liberal leadership. The first one is the most interesting, because it is a compressed biography of Ignatieff's entire life and career previous.

So for anyone interested, and it's a fact whether we like it or not that this man could be our next PM, here's a little glimpse in to the good, the bad and the just plain ugly of the man.

(I'm only gonna blue-clicky the first - yez can cut and paste the others.)

http://www.internet.uqam.ca/web/t6270/being_michael_ignatieff.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ignatieff

http://www.michaelignatieff.ca/

http://www.straight.com/telling-true-lies-about-michael-ignatieff

http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2005/11/michael-ignatieff-future-ruler-of-canada.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/neumann12082003.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:55 PM

Bee, you are quite right when you say that "scratch the surface a little, though, and one often discovers profoundly divergent philosophies and beliefs, on government, on society, on freedom, even on individuality."   (between Canadians and Americans)

Absolutely. There is a very different core philosophy at work in Canada than in the USA, and there has been from the inception of those 2 nations as separate political entities.

What worries me is that the Canadian core philosophy (which really IS the "Canadian identity") keeps being assaulted in various ways and it has been significantly weakened in the past few decades.

I think you and I would agree on the elements that constitute those differences in core philosophy, and they have been amply demonstrated in the history of the Canadian West vs. the American West, and in the development of Canada's national health insurance plan, and in a variety of other ways.

Canadians focus more on shared community responsibility. Americans focus more on individual "rights" (laissez-faire). (Despite this we both have constitutions that guarantee essentially the same individual rights and freedoms for citizens.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:10 PM

United, we stand, divided, we fall.

Which is why, LH, I reject your proposal of party abolishment. The "one party" system is the core of the Communist system (appart from it's system of life cycle accounting, which I do like). On paper, it appears ideal, but, in practice, it leads to mob rule.

Our party system not ensures that the proper people get put on the job and that the job actually gets done without mayhem. More importantly, it also gives the populace a voice to "vote", either in reward or punishment. In your system, how would the general populace "vote" it's dis/approval?

Six of one....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:12 PM

Ooops... Our party system not ONLY ensures....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:43 PM

Hmmmmm


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:05 PM

Gnu, I am not proposing a ONE-party system. That's even worse than a multi-party system, and it IS a dictatorship. I am proposing a NO-party system with a legislature formed from free individuals of NO party affiliation whatsoever...the same as a town coucil or a city government (in many places)...or other forms of democracy we have operating right now, and working just fine.

How do you indicate your disapproval of government policy? The same way people in Athens, Greece did during their democracy....you vote AGAINST the incumbent(s) if they favored the passing of policies you did not approve of. You vote someone else in their place, someone whose stated policies you like better. If he fails to meet expectations, you vote him out of office. (elections to be held at scheduled intervals)

If seated members don't belong to any party, then they are not under some party whip when it comes to voting their conscience on a piece of legislation. They are far freer to vote as free individuals than people who are worrying about "maintaining party line" and about currying favor in the party hierarchy. They are far freer to genuinely represent the voters of their local constituency who put them in office. They aren't wasting incredible amounts of time and effort bad-mouthing the other parties to score points for the nexgt election. They don't have to answer to anyone BUT the voters, and when election time rolls around they will be rated on their performance while in office, but without the eternal bla-bla-bla about party identity and partisan BS (most of which is utterly destructive).

Imagine the freedom of being able to vote for someone JUST on his own merits and accomplishments for a change, rather than having to worry about which goddamn party he is in and letting that decide whether you give him your vote or not.

Parties are self-serving artificially created entities. They seek to enlarge themselves, just like corporations. They possess an unlimited appetite in that respect. They are in effect immortal, so you can't get rid of them, they just go on and on. They seek to regiment and coerce their members into a single, compliant bloc. They do all that is anti-democratic and leads to corruption and perversion of the political process.

There is nothing better you can possibly vote for than a free and independent individual who is beholden to NO party structure or hierarchy.

It is entirely possible to have a fully functioning democracy with no political parties. The only reason people can't get their heads around the idea is that they are already so accustomed to having political parties that they take it for granted. They have thus been divided and conquered by immortal institutions which do not represent them, but represent very large entrenched interests.

Political parties are a relatively new phenomenon in history, and they are not a good idea at all, in my opinion. They are the seed of corruption and division.

Democracy, on the other hand, is an excellent idea. It requires nothing other than free men and women who can vote their preferences, and an assemly composed from out of those free men and women, beholden to no party and no large organization or hierarchy.

Remove the hand of large hierarchical organizations such as churches, corporations, and political parties from the political process...and then, by God, you would have a real democracy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:14 PM

Holy shit. LH.... No way I can type that fast. Okay, you win. There will be no more parties in Canada.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:25 PM

I wish. (grin) It's a dream I will never see happen. I have grown to loathe political parties as the decades rolled by, as I guess you can plainly tell...I would never join one of them. Not a chance.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:03 PM

"No way I can type that fast. Okay, you win. There will be no more parties in Canada."

You ####holes. What about my birthday?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:13 PM

Haaaaaapy Bday to you! When is your Bday anahwhay eh?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM

I'm not telling! But the non-party poopers here--if they're old enough--might recall a bright light in the heavens and three wise guys named Larry, Curly and Moe who went to Montreal's Royal Victoria Hospital and brought gifts of Frank's ten cents, gold from Mexico and myhrr/murr/merr some smelly stuff on September 17, 1947. That's the only hint you get.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:48 PM

Mexican Gold? Aucupokeyouintheass Gold? Oh WOW man. I remember that shit, man. That was some good shit, man.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:57 PM

I'm for democracy ... and a non-party system does sound convincing ... can't be worse than what we got now.

Besides L.H. ... this concept was raised in a couple of conversations at work in the last 2 days.

the non-party poopers ####holes movement is growing ... better watch out, the next one to come up is the non-birthday movement.

biLL   :)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:00 PM

Chongo is heading for a grand disillusionment about the party system too. I think he's going to get considerably less than 1 per cent of the USA vote in November.

That means there's gonna be one hell of a drunken bash at the APP headquarters afterward, lemme tell ya. Poor little guy! He's gonna be heartbroken. When that happens, a lot of booze is required to get Chongo through.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM

Volpe is a complete dickhead, no?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 07:10 PM

I can't say ..... don't know the guy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 05:46 AM

He said Stevie Deux should annouce he is stepping down so that the May policy convention could be changed to a leadership convention.

I assume Joe Volpe is limping. Shoulda just shot himself in the head instead.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 08:00 AM

I thought that Commisso boy already looked after eliminating Volpe?

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: meself
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:18 AM

I don't see what the big rush is re: Dion. It's another six months till the leadership convention. Any Liberal calling for him to resign already should be given the bum's rush ... Tells you more about them than him.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:38 PM

There's more than him should be taking a walk in the snow.
All this talk has taken the heat off Jack Layton though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Bee
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:56 PM

Dion's public personality, and his voice, are half his problem. He just appears so embarassingly emotional about everything. If one looks past that, one ends up liking him, at least I do. I think he's honest, earnest, well-meaning. The contrast with Robo-Steven is stark.

I know Dion has a hearing problem, as well as still a little problem with English, especially, I suspect, understanding spoken English. I've wondered if his having a voice coach could have made a big difference in this past election.

Apropos of that, in high school I had a friend who could only speak in a very squeaky, almost inaudible voice, and so he rarely spoke at all. I met him a few years after high school, and was astonished when he greeted me in normal resonant tones. He'd gone and taken voice training, no medical involvement at all, and completely reinvented his speech. It changed his life.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:11 PM

I live in a municipal area that does not have party politics and it is an absolute shambles...23 self interested people who have neither a shared vision or a shared committment to a set of ideaks. The result is the very antithesis of democracy. We always think the grass is greener on the other side...no parties, proportional representation..it all sounds great, but much of it reduces democracy to mindless anarchy. I think the biggest threat to our freedoms are the huge numbers of citizens who choose not to inform themselves then complain that they don't understand what choices they are given.
I don't think our system is perfect but it does beat most of the alternatives. At least I think it does.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:17 PM

meself.... that's the crux of the biscuit... no need for him to say anything... the policy convention was scheduled long ago. Easy to regear the whole works months from now, or not, depending on "whatever". Nothing is gonna change in the meantime. As for there EVEN being a leadership convention... why bother until it's necessary? Only one reason... a vote of non-Harper TOO soon.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:43 AM

Well CTV has gone ahead and announced that "Ontario Liberal MP John McCallum has been tapped to take over the reins of his party as interim leader if Stephane Dion steps down as expected on Monday,.."
Tacky.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 11:49 PM

it illustrates why Dion was so miffed at CTV on election night.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 10:14 AM

Well CTV did a number on Dion in his Halifax interview in Halifax a few days earlier. I lost a lot of respect for Steve Murphy who was always a fair but persistant interviewer. It seems that later information absolves Steve of blame because the empty suits above him pulled the strings. When Harper used the clip to attack Dion's poor English it reflected more on Harper's character. However I had no respect for Harper to anyway.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 01:48 PM

The "bungled" interview pissed off a LOT of Acadians. There was a whack of votes lost in Acadie in very short order because, not only do most of them dislike the Quebecois, they hold little love for Quebecers that speak English poorly... not poor Quebecers or those from isolated communities, of course, but a well educated and well-off Quebecer?... no way. Here in Moncton, where Brian Murphy (L) SHOULD have won by a landslide, he narrowly beat Daniel Allain (C). And, the province as a whole voted Conservative far beyond what I had anticipated. It was rather surprising for New Brunswick.

I am not saying it was that interview alone that did in Stephy, but tack that on to the carbon tax, which he couldn't even explain in French, and Bob's t'oncle.

Of course, he's got that small head, too eh?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 04:28 PM

Well... Stephane Dion's is. Done deal.

Hehehe... how very Canuck to not start a new thread after the election. Perhaps it is time... who's it gonna be? The new leader, I mean.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 02:03 AM

Don Cherry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 06:31 PM

Shane has been saying for years that Don Cherry oughta be the prime minister! He would bring a whole new sensibility to the office. ;-)

I think he'd pretty well have to head up the Conservatives, though, not any of the other parties.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Cluin
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:36 PM

Because of his snappy fashion sense? That's very conservative.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:43 PM

Oh, fer sure, eh?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 04:28 AM

Would add a whole new concept to clearing the benches.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 12:13 PM

This is an old thread. But, at least there was room for logic in this one (versus the current thread that is up).

I brought gnu's interesting old debate back as the issues in this article will likely continue stong into 2012 as the Liberals are "waiting for a miracle" - (no disrespect to anyone else also seeking for change on specific issues or even a whole bunch of them).


If you wish a spot to participate "go for it" - if not, it will just move down.


That was then, this is now


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 02:09 PM

Trudaeu has three years to prove himself. Even if he actually could (at least grant me that THAT is a longshot), Harper is adept at the game and big business is everything ALTHOUGH if Trudeau can tap the hearts of Canucks rather than the wallets of the rich and middle class, he will win... because he has two things in his favour already. First, Canucks may simply wish a change. Second, Harper is a piece of shit that doesn't care about any Canuck who isn't rich.

There is my insightful, astute and in depth analysis. I hope the fucker gets run over by a bus. in one of the new ridings in The Big Smoke.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 02:39 PM

Regardless of what how you view the individual, gnu, Harper has seemed to be a good political strategist, with his administration covering so many bases - while those in opposition parties were asleep at the job. The question is have they "woken up" and is it "too little, too late"?

I suspect some forgot the impact of youth and the ever-changing mood brought forward by new Canadians (except in Atlantic Canada, that is). Also, the old statement on politics that - "the main concern ifs the economy, stupid", can't be ignored.


My observations are that concerns for the economy versus environment move up and down throughout periods. With recent global challenges, I suspect concerns for the economy are at the forefront - though experience is that this can change quickly and concern for the environment could move to the top. But, I suspect those governing have a back-up strategy for that possibility.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 03:40 PM

Ah... yeah... that's what I said. I think.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 03:50 PM

Well, maybe yes...minus the piece of shit and bus stuff.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Is Stephen Harper's Rule Ending ?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 04:20 PM

That was the best part! >;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 28 February 8:25 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.