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Anger over La Cucaracha

Related threads:
Lyr Req: to La Cucaracha (21)
Lyr Req: La Cucaracha (62)


Wrinkles 15 Oct 08 - 12:15 PM
Big Mick 15 Oct 08 - 12:20 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 15 Oct 08 - 12:25 PM
artbrooks 15 Oct 08 - 12:25 PM
katlaughing 15 Oct 08 - 03:33 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Oct 08 - 03:45 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 15 Oct 08 - 04:04 PM
Joe Offer 15 Oct 08 - 04:12 PM
MMario 15 Oct 08 - 04:18 PM
Joe Offer 15 Oct 08 - 04:26 PM
Joe Offer 15 Oct 08 - 04:42 PM
Thompson 15 Oct 08 - 05:08 PM
Cool Beans 15 Oct 08 - 05:11 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Oct 08 - 05:20 PM
Thompson 15 Oct 08 - 05:22 PM
Rapparee 15 Oct 08 - 05:30 PM
Genie 15 Oct 08 - 05:33 PM
Thompson 15 Oct 08 - 05:35 PM
Azizi 15 Oct 08 - 06:01 PM
Jack Campin 15 Oct 08 - 06:12 PM
Genie 15 Oct 08 - 06:36 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Oct 08 - 06:54 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Oct 08 - 08:11 PM
Joe Offer 15 Oct 08 - 08:17 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Oct 08 - 08:59 PM
Lonesome EJ 15 Oct 08 - 09:53 PM
Joe Offer 16 Oct 08 - 12:24 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Oct 08 - 01:06 AM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Oct 08 - 05:31 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Oct 08 - 12:05 AM
Monique 17 Oct 08 - 02:48 AM
Monique 17 Oct 08 - 03:03 AM
Monique 17 Oct 08 - 06:17 AM
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Subject: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Wrinkles
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:15 PM

Posted from Ananova.

Parents are fuming after education chiefs introduced a school music
book that included a traditional Spanish song about smoking cannabis.

La Cucaracha - popular in the Mexican civil war - is about a cockroach
that can't walk because of all the marijuana it has smoked.

But a scandal has broken out in Bosnia and Herzegovina after a new
educational book distributed to primary schools gave a full
translation of the lyrics.

Parents have demanded the Federal Ministry of Education, which
approved the book by Refik Hodzic, recall it immediately and have
slammed the decision to send it out to schools as "ridiculous".

Mum Sanya Bolic, 38, from Sarajevo, whose nine year-old son told her
about the book, said: "I could not believe it when I found out about
this.

"The last thing I want my son learning about in primary school is
drugs. Whoever made the ridiculous decision to put this book in
schools must have been out of their head themselves."


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:20 PM

As I became a Spanish speaker and hence understood the last line of the chorus, I always wondered why this song from my childhood (during the 50's and 60's)never evoked a negative response before. At least none that I was aware of.

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:25 PM

I remember hearing that the marijuana lyrics probably date back to the Mexican civil war, but the song is actually much older and originally did not contain the now-popular lyrics.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:25 PM

La Cucaracha is a corrido and, unlike many corridos, is definitely "trad". Whether or not the verses including mention of marijuana were in the original version is an unanswerable question, since the rumored 1818 version is (as far as I know) not extant. I certainly expect that the Bosnian Board of Education could have/should have cherry-picked verses since there are probably hundreds.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:33 PM

I never heard of any controversy, either, and it was in our school music books, was quite a popular song in school.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:45 PM

See thread 5841: La Cucaracha

In a post of 04 Feb 08, the lyrics collected in 1883, and the first appearance of the cockroach in a verse of 1818, were given with the Spanish reference. Jose Joaquin Fernandez de Lizardi, in his book "La Quijotita y su prima," 1818, is the first I know of that mentions the song. More history and a 19th c. Mexican verse given in a post by Dicho, 15 Jul 02.

The marijuana verses are from the time of Pancho Villa, c. 1913; there are many others to this old Spanish folksong which became popular in Mexico. No reason to use the marijuana verses in a school text because there are hundreds of others, as stated by artbrooks.

The 1883 Spanish version, with its mention of the Moors, is a good one for a school text. However, a school kid that doesn't know about marijuana has been raised in isolation.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:04 PM

I'd guess, that if you're not a cockroach, it shouldn't bother you. I'd tell who ever is criticizing you, to stuff it. It goes way further back, than 'political correctness'.....besides, do you think that the song promotes pot..or cockroaches??


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:12 PM

Well, I have to say that I thought I knew this song all my life, but I was surprised when I came to Mudcat and learned that there was prominent mention of smoking marijuana in the song, and tyhat Carl Sandburg used the marijuana lyrics in his 1927 book, American Songbag (see crosslinks above for various versions).
Then today, I realized the lyrics I had learned for the song when I was a kid:

    La cucaracha, la cucaracha,
    da-da, da-da, da-da-da;
    porque no tiene, porque da-da-da.
    da-da, da-da, da-da-da.

And I'll bet that if you're honest, most of you will admit that you learned those very same lyrics, including the "da-da-da" part. I think Sister Anna used this song when I took Spanish in eighth grade in a Catholic school, and I can't believe she used the marijuana lyrics.

I checked our School Songbook Index Permathread, and found that "La Curaracha" was included in school music texts published by Silver Burdett and by Follett, but with no mention of marijuana. I'll post those versions below. I see in another thread that Q refused to post them because they were bowdlerized. I admire Q's integrity, but I confess that I have no such integrity myself....

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: MMario
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:18 PM

I've been trying to remember what chorus we sang:

La cucaracha, la cucaracha,
Play it on the old guitar
La cucaracha, la cucaracha,
{something in spanish}


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Subject: ADD Version: La Cucaracha (Richard Eisman)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:26 PM

OK, with apologies to Q, here is the version from the fifth-grade book of Silver Burdett Music: Centennial Edition (Crook/Reimer/Walker, 1985), page 153.

LA CUCARACHA
(folk melody from Mexico, lyrics by Richard Eisman)

There's a bug, some like to chase it,
When we play we must outrace it,
If at lunch we see it coming,
We're supposed to send it running.

CHORUS:
   La cucaracha, la cucaracha, I'm so glad to see you go.
   La cucaracha, la cucaracha, I love you, te quiero yo.

Tiny thing with no amigos,
Not a friend wherever it goes,
Do you really want to banish
Little bugs who sing in Spanish.
CHORUS

Little bugs enjoy their freedom,
Even though we do not need 'em.
All las niñas and los niños
Can't forget their true amigos.
CHORUS



Maybe Q was right. This is truly awful. Still, it's a memorable tune, and I don't think I could bring myself to teach grade-school children about marijuana.... I think maybe the da-da-da lyrics are best for kids.


No version of the song is included in the wonderful Canciones Populares, an all-Spanish school songbook edited by Allena Luce and published by Silver Burdett in 1921.


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Subject: ADD Version: La Cucaracha (Fullerton)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:42 PM

OK, now here's the version from the 1960 edition of Voices of the World, the 6th-grade music book of the Follett Together We Sing series (Wolfe/Krone/Fullerton), page 162.


LA CUCARACHA
(folk melody from Mexico, lyrics by Margaret Fullerton)

When they dance the cucaracha,
And I hear the music playing,
To the Plaza then I hurry,
Join the dance without delaying.

CHORUS
La cucaracha, la cucaracha,
Whirling round and round we go,
La cucaracha, la cucaracha,
Gayest dance in Mexico.

See the gallant caballeros,
How they're throwing their sombreros,
And the señoritas smiling,
With a glance that's so beguiling.
CHORUS



Gee, it sounds like The Continental or another of those corny dance songs from the Fred and Ginger movies.


Anyhow, despite the 1927 imprimatur from Sandburg, I can't imagine the marijuana verses of this song being taught in American grammar schools at any time - and I agree that they shouldn't be taught at that level.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:08 PM

Isn't it little they have to worry about?

A couple of shreds from my meagre store of knowledge:

Marijuana was a term used for both cheap tobacco and cannabis.

'La Cucaracha' was the nickname of Pancho Villa's staff car, which raced around stuffed with revolutionaries with arms and legs sticking out as it reeled around corners.

The song affectionately mocked the oversexed and yet beloved Villa and his cadres.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Cool Beans
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:11 PM

This is the worst problem they've got in Bosnia-Herzegovina? Things have loosend up a bit.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:20 PM

I've always understood La Cucuracha, the cockroach, is supposed to refer to government soldiers in the Mexican civil war, who don't get to smoke weed, unlike the rebels, which is one reason they are losing.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:22 PM

Too tired to clickify: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/28025/origins_of_the_cinco_de_mayo_anthem.html


    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/28025/origins_of_the_cinco_de_mayo_anthem.html
    Origins of the Cinco De Mayo Anthem - "La Cucaracha"
    By Os Davis, published Apr 25, 2006

    With the Mexican national holiday known as Cinco de Mayo comes an outpouring of traditional favorites such as tequila, guacamole ... and that catchy little folk ditty even the most monolingual of Anglos know as “La Cucaracha.”

    Like the man upon which the song is inextricably linked, Pancho Villa, there is some controversy regarding “La Cucaracha.” An uncountable number of verses appear to exist for the song, and various sources alternatively claim a given verse’s subject to be Villa himself, his car, 19th-century female revolutionaries known as soldadera and pre-World War I Mexican dictator Victoriano Huerta, among myriad other explanations. One source posits that Villa wrote the song himself as a lampoon of the reactionary Huerta, and nineteenth-century Mexican author José Joaquin Fernandez de Lizardi claimed that the tune itself goes back to the fifteenth century and actually came to Mexico from Spain via military men. References to buzzards and the “sexton’s mouse” are lost to history and subject to much interpretation.

    Explanations of why “cockroach” was the epithet for whichever subject the singer chose also vary: “cucaracha” was a code word used to refer to the soldadera and usage of the slur to apply to Huerta speaks for itself. Perhaps the most interesting bit of myth here is why Villa would be referred to as the disgusting insect.

    The story goes as follows. Villa, like a good revolutionary general, worked hard, fought hard and played hard. As it turns out, the future hero of Cinco de Mayo drank hard, too. So hard, in fact, that he’d often have to crawl back to his tent when troops were encamped. His large frame and thin wispy Dali-like handlebar moustache (maybe surreal Salvador pinched the idea) caused him to resemble a cockroach when staggering about on all fours.

    One of today’s favored verses (see the second cited below) is most likely a parody of Huerta, who bore quite the reputation for certain recreational substances, a bad guy mostly reviled when remembered at all.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:30 PM

I, too, understood that The Cockroach was Villa's car and that the marijuana reference related to the times when the car was stuck or not running and had to be pushed:

The little cockroach, the little cockroach,
He cannot go at all
Because he does not have
Because he cannot get
Marijuana for to smoke.


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Subject: La Cucaracha and "marijuana por fumar"
From: Genie
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:33 PM

DK how accurate it is, but I've read that the marijuana verse ("La Cucaracha, Ya no puede caminar, Porque no tiene, porque le falta marijuana por fuma" -- "The Cockroach can't walk because he doesn't have any marijuana to smoke") was about the outlaw and mercenary Pancho Villa and not exactly an endorsement of marijuana use. (The same song talks about how funny Villa looks with his shirt off.) (I've also read, alternatively, that "La Cucaracha" was Villas old rattletrap of a truck.

When I do the song at senior residences, I semi-jokingly tell them that the song is about Pancho Villa, who was called "The Cockroach" and who had a drug problem.

And I sing one of the verses as
"Pancho Villa, he's a cockroach,
He's an outlaw, he's a thug.
Pancho Villa going nowhere:
He can't move without his drugs."

This doesn't mean I think the marijuana verse needs to be included when the song is done for or by school kids. (The Danhoff, Nivert, Denver song "Take Me Home, Country Roads" has been altered in some grade school music books to change "misty taste of moonshine" to "misty haze of moonlight," and that seems innocuous enough.)


Thompson, your info about cheap tobacco also being a possible referent of "marijuana" is interesting, but in a setting like a school, without the background being explained on every occasion, I think I'd just use "tamer" lyics.

My sister, when she used to sing this song to her young kids, would sing the chorus as:

"La Cucaracha, La Cucaracha,
Ya no puede caminar
Porque no tiene, porque le falta
Fina ropa por llevar." (Because he doesn't have a nice shirt to wear.)

Genie


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:35 PM

Puh, censorship. I grew up singing Minnie the Moocher and Have a (sniff) have a (sniff) have a (sniff) on me, and understanding that the lyrics were drug-related, and didn't become a drugs fiend.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:01 PM

Thompson, I've got a little bit of energy to spare. So here's your blue clicky:


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/28025/origins_of_the_cinco_de_mayo_anthem.html

Best wishes,

Azizi


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:12 PM

I'd expect that Bosnia has a good many songs of its own about smoking marijuana.

Any sevdah experts out there?


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Genie
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:36 PM

I'm not a fan of censorship, either, but I don't know if I'd use songs like "Whiskey In The Jar" or "That Good Old Mountain Dew" or "Cigareets & Whuskey And Wild, Wild, Women" as songs for grade school music class either.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:54 PM

Francisco Villa (Pancho) was a hero of the Revolution of the 1913-1915 period, supporting Madero, fighting the wealthy landowners and their army, and giving hacienda land to peasants and his soldiers.
He is honored in Mexico, especially by the rural poor, and Mexicans would be upset by some of the slanders posted here.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:11 PM

The other day in another thread (below the salt) I commented: "But what is interesting is that the assumption tends to be that the States are much less formal and more libertarian than back here in Europe - but often it seems actually to be the other way round. Stuff that no-one would turn a hair at here seems to be seen as a big deal over there, and is liable to be pretty firmly controlled.

This seems another example of this.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:17 PM

Maybe so, McGrath -
I wouldn't think of singing a song about marijuana to grade school kids, or maybe even high school kids. I'd be taking my life in my hands, since I'd be sure to be drawn and quartered by angry parents. The funny thing is that I accept that taboo without question.

But if the kids were over 18, I'd be castigated for censorship for failing to sing the marijuana verses. And I accept THAT taboo without question.

Guess I'm not the "maverick" I thought I was.....

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:59 PM

The verses about marijuana were directed at General Victoriano Huerta.

As one website put it, Huerta was "viejo malandrin, rastrero, hipócrita, estrafalario, borracho, marijuanero, ridículo y malvado."
In order, these epithets are: old highwayman (or pig), hanger-on (or pimp), hypocrite, slovenly or wild man, drunkard, marijuana-smoker, ludicrous and wicked person.
The revolutionary troops sang verses about him and his 'shortcomings'. Three of these verses are given in translation (from Frances Toor) 04 Feb 08, and in Spanish by Joe Offer, verses 1, 2, 4, 08 Aug 98, thread 5841: La Cucaracha

Huerta's career is summarized fairly well in Wikipedia. His dictatorship was one of the reasons for American troops landing at Veracruz.
After repeated field defeats of Huerta's federal army by Obregón and Pancho Villa, Huerta resigned the presidency on July 15, 1914.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:53 PM

Let's see...we've got 24 hour porn available on the internet and cable, computer games about theft and murder, billboards using sex to sell liquor, cartoon camels selling cigarettes, and people are uptight about the possibility of kids thinking La Cucaracha condones marijuana use?
I'll retire to Bedlam


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:24 AM

Yeah, EJ, but if you were a teacher, would you teach it? I think that may be the solution in Bosnia and Herzegovina - let it sit there in the book, and teachers who don't want to, won't teach it.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:06 AM

I would like to see an original reference (and translation)- Did the song get discussed in the papers? TV and radio? Or is this just a few women trying to raise a fooferraw?

The first post shows that the song was either mis-translated or misunderstood- what was actually published?


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:31 PM

This thread reminded me. I was clearing up in the attic some time back, and I found my copy of a BBC Broadcast to Schools booklet "Singing Together", dating on 1947, passed out at school by the nuns, and it's on the shelf with my other songbooks.

Lots of good songs in it, including the same version of the sea shanty Whip Jamboree that we've got in the Digital Tradition, with the rousing chorus:

Whip jamboree, whip jamboree,
Oh you long-tailed black man, poke it up behind me,
Whip jamboree, whip jamboree,
Oh Jenny get your oat cake done.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 12:05 AM

This one may qualify as the worst ever-

Bright rumba:
In the land of senoritas,
Sweet Lolitas and Chiquitas,
There they do a dance as neat as-
Any dance at any ball.

Chorus
La Cucaracha! La Cucaracha!
It's a lively latin dance
La Cucaracha, La Cucaracha!
It's the rumba of romance.
You may have danced to a thousand rumbas,
Old or new, they still recall La cucaracha.
La Cucaracha! It's the daddy of them all.

Copyright 1970, California Music Press.
p. 345, with score and chords, 1002 The Complete Children's Song Book. Hansen House Superbooks.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Monique
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 02:48 AM

We have such a bad version too (VERY literal translation)

La cucaracha
      
Paroles: Chamfleury,. Musique: Tata-Nacho   1935
© 1932 EIMEF S.E.M.I.
note: Tiré du folklore Mexicain


Le matin, dès qu'on se lève, (in the morning when we get up)
L'esprit tout embué de rêve, (our minds still full of dream)
Quand nous allons sous la douche, (when we go shower)
Cet air est sur notre bouche (this tune is on our lips)
Et tandis que l'eau ruisselle (and while the water's streaming)
Chaque goutte nous appelle, (every drop calls us)
Le robinet la commente (the tap comments it)
Et toute la maison chante (and the whole household sings)

{Refrain:}
La cucaracha, la cucaracha,
Ah c'est fou c'que j'adore ça ! (it's incredible how I love it)
La cucaracha, la cucaracha,
C'est bien plus beau que la java ! (it's much nicer than the java)
La cucaracha, la cucaracha,
On frissonne de haut en bas ! (we shake from top to bottom)
La cucaracha, la cucaracha,
Essayez vous verrez ça ! (try and you'll see)

Cette danse est à la mode (this dance is up to date)
Car elle vient des antipodes, (for it comes from the antipodes)
Tout le monde la serine (everybody keeps repeating it)
Avec l'accent d'origine, (with the original accent)
La T.S.F.* nous la donne, (the radio gives it to us)
Dans la rue on la fredonne, (we hum it in the street)
Elle est sur toutes les ondes, (it's on all the radios)
Chantons comme tout le monde (let's sing like everybody)

{au Refrain}

From http://www.paroles.net/chanson/39415.1

* T.S.F stands for Transmission/Télégraphie Sans Fil = wireless transmission.


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Monique
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 03:03 AM

Btw, I've been a first grade teacher most of my live and I wouldn't teach it to first graders but I can imagine that it can be mentioned and/or taught from 5th grade up; good opportunity for a serious discussion about drugs (as lack of sexual education never prevented girls/women from being pregnant -or would we be more than 6 billion?)


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Subject: RE: Anger over La Cucaracha
From: Monique
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:17 AM

And last but not least, I've searched the book of Spanish language I had when I was in 12th grade ("Por el mundo hispánico 5", J.Villégier & F. Molina, Ed. Hatier) and there are the chorus and 2 verses of "La cucaracha" (along with "Adelita" and "La Valentina") and it goes:
La cucaracha, la cucaracha/ ya no puede caminar/ porque le falta (2), mariguana* que fumar.
with a note : * o marihuana, nombre vulgar del cánamo común. Fumado como tabaco, esta droga produce embriaguez y trastornos mentales.
But in 12th grade you're supposed to be 17/18 years old.


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