BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Beer
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 03:41 PM

Thanks Ham.
Matt and Rebecca definitely keep it alive and couldn't agree with you more on Mike's leaving.
Adrien

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 03:28 PM

This thread sponsored by The Montreal Chamber of Commerce, for late blooming hippies!

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: C. Ham
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 03:20 PM

One more thing, and that has to do with the present. There's been a big upswing in the live Montreal folk scene in the past five years and a lot of the credit has to go to Matt and Rebecca Large from Hello Darlin' Productions who put on shows at a bunch of different clubs and halls.

And to Mike Regenstreif's Folk Roots/Folk Branches radio show on CKUT. It was a big blow to the Montreal folk scene when Mike stopped doing the weekly show. His short features during the replacement show Folk Directions are great but are not on often enough

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: C. Ham
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 03:10 PM

You mean Dave Clarke who backs up David Francey at times on guitar?

Yes, that's him. He also has a band in Montreal called Steel Rail and one in Victoria called Shearwater.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: C. Ham
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 03:07 PM

The first coffee house I went to was the Back Door. I saw Doc & Merle Watson, David Bromberg, Ramblin' Jack Elliott, Paul Siebel, Sonny Terry & Brownie McGhee, and Jerry Jeff Walker there.

At the Yellow Door, I saw Bill Staines, Paul Geremia, Keith Sykes, Doug McArthur and a lot of the local Montreal folks.

At the Karma, I saw Fraser & DeBolt, Steve Goodman and Dave Van Ronk.

The Golem was my main stomping grounds. I was there a lot in the 1970s and often in the 1980s on my frequent visits to Montreal. The first person I saw there was Bruce (Peace) Murdoch. Many others come quickly to mind. Jesse Winchester, Kate & Anna McGarrigle, Murray McLauchlan, Valdy, Utah Phillips, Rosalie Sorrels, Kate Wolf, Priscilla Herdman, Bill Staines, Stan Rogers, Garnet Rogers, Mimi Farina, Tom Paxton, Odetta, Erik Frandsen, Jack Hardy, Dave Essug, Friends of Fiddler's Green, Connie Kaldor, John Hartford, Roger McGuinn, Peter Tork, Allan Nichols, Nanci Griffith, Bill Staines, Humphrey & His Dumptrucks, Willie P. Bennett, Ronney Abramson, Christopher Kearney, David Rea, Nancy White...

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Beer
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 03:01 PM

C.Ham,
You mean Dave Clarke who backs up David Francey at times on guitar?
Didn't know that. Dave is a wonderful person.
Adrien

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: C. Ham
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 02:51 PM

Mike reopened the Golem and ran it through the end of 1987 when it was taken over by a commitee headed by Dave Clarke. The committee managed to keep it going until 1991.

It was 1981 when Mike reopened the Golem.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: C. Ham
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 02:48 PM

The Yellow Door (Aylmer) 1967 – present

The Back Door (McTavish at Sherbrooke)   Apr1969 - 1981

The Karma (Crescent and De Maisonneuve)    ?

The Golem (3460 Stanley north of Sherbrooke) 1973 – 1991


I think the Yellow Door was started by John Foley and soon taken over by Chuck Baker who ran it until someime in the 1980s. Since then there have been a bunch of people who have come and gone. The woman now in charge is Holly Fleming.

Among the people running the Back Door were Rick Austin and Dennis Brown.

The Karma was open for about two three years in the early-1970s. I'm thinking 1972-1974. It was run by Arnie Naiditch who was murdered, some years later, in Atlanta, Georgia.

The Golem was started in 1973 by Saul Markowicz. Mike Regenstreif soon took it over and ran it through 1976. Mark Nerenberg took it over from Mike until the Hillel Society, which owned the building, closed it down less than a year later. Mike reopened the Golem and ran it through the end of 1987 when it was taken over by a commitee headed by Dave Clarke. The committee managed to keep it going until 1991.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: john f weldon
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 02:40 PM

The (not new) Penelope, yup, saw the Greenbriar boys with Richard Greene. Also Bruce, I think.

Back Door - Doc & Merle Watson, Frank Wakefield and others.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: john f weldon
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 02:36 PM

I attended the Fifth Amendment (later renamed Fifth Dimension) almost weekly, probably in 63 & 64. As I remember, it didn't cost much to get in & was somewhat negotiable. Whining, wheedling and bringing a group sometimes helped. I was totally broke in those days, and, let's face it, kind of a bum.
The list of performers I saw there would be very long.
Gary Eisencraft always insisted on singing a few songs before bringing on the main talent, and the crowd were openly whiney and impatient. He tell them, tough, you have to listen to me first. But really, it was all in good fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: john f weldon
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 02:28 PM

I saw Bob Gibson perform at the Finjan, early sixties. More info as i search the musty corridors of memory. I just digitized his LP, which I bought either there or just after. His repertoire at the Finjan was pretty much the same as on the LP.

Saw Shimon Ash & spouse(?) play too at their own club a few times.

For years my route to work took me up Victoria (in Snowden area) and I could remember that you had to go down a back alley and up some stairs to find the place, but exactly where...???

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: mike gouthro
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 01:41 PM

I'm posting this in the "Montreal 60's Counterculture Question" and "Montreal Sixties" threads.

Adrien (Beer) suggested I use this thread to make another attempt to collect info on early Montreal folk venues and notable folk music history. I first assembled the list below in 2007 in the "Little Known 60's Folksingers" thread.

I particularly want info on the early Montreal folk scene before 1964 when I first got involved. I'd like more info on The Fifth Amendment, The Finjan, The Pot Pourri/Seven Steps - and especially – on any earlier venues whose names and locations have been lost. For example, I've heard that Bob Gibson performed in Montreal circa 1960 but I don't know when or where.

While 1950's and early 1960's info is what I hoping for, I'll gladly update the list below with any additions and corrections. I'm looking for proprietors, locations, years of operation, memorable performances and any other noteworthy info.


The Seven Steps renamed The Potpourri. Proprietor - Morris Fineberg (Stanley St between Sir George/Concordia and the Stanley Tavern)   196? – 1962

The Finjan (Victoria St). Proprietor - Shimon Ash   1961? – 1962?

The Fifth Amendment (Clarke St). Proprietor - Gary Eisenkraft 1963? - early 1965

The Penelope (Bishop St below Café Prague). Proprietor - Gary Eisenkraft mid 1965 – mid 1966

Café Andre (upstairs on Burnside?) 196? – 197?

La Femme Foetal (Mountain St in the William Tell restaurant) mid65 – early 66

Venus De Milo Lounge (St Catherine) <1950? - ??    1966 Folk Rock

The Blue Lantern renamed The Totem Pole by Willie Dunn then managed briefly by Gary Eisenkraft. (below the old Pot Pourri) late 1965 -1968?

The Montreal Folk Workshop (Park Ave Moose Hall until 1969 then various locations) Proprietors – Norm/Liz Doyle till late 66 then McKinley/Buchanan/Gouthro then McKinley/Evans then Evans. December 1965 – 1973

The Yellow Door (Aylmer) 1967 – present

The New Penelope (Sherbrooke at Park beside the Swiss Hut) Proprietor Gary Eisenkraft.1967 – 1968?

The Back Door (McTavish at Sherbrooke)   Apr1969 - 1981

The Karma (Crescent and De Maisonneuve)    ?

The Golem (3460 Stanley north of Sherbrooke) 1973 – 1991

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: GUEST,wateredown
Date: 05 Apr 09 - 10:50 AM

don't forget the muzmuz

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Sookite
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 01:23 AM

Got it.....will do. Hope you decide to come out.

DG

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: KenM
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 12:06 AM

Dave:

Don't forget to let Linda and Cobb know that Bruce is coming out. I think I gave you their contact information but can send it again if you need it.

Ken

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Sookite
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 07:04 PM

ooops......Im working on a mac face book.....small keyboard

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: bankley
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 05:48 PM

wha sup dawg ? he's a good man, tell him I said 'woof'

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 04:42 PM

Now we're talking. Haven't eaten dog in many years. Stir fry if you'd be so kind . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Sookite
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 04:30 PM

I'll give the Dawg a fry

DG

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: bankley
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 10:45 AM

Sookite, maybe a house concert in Nanaimo, talk to Dawg.. Merissa is good at organizing things... they've heard the last CD and are fans..
who knows ?

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: john f weldon
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 09:36 AM

As I mentioned before, I too was outside watching. University was several years in my past. I did know one person inside, a cute blond-haired Maoist, and crazy as a loon. Everyone seemed over-the-top in rhetoric and action. The worst thing you could be was small-"l"-liberal. Any moderation was considered wishy-washy, sappy, contemptible.

Another good friend was inside, though I didn't know it at the time. Emru was in the womb of one of the demonstrators. He died this fall of leukemia, at age 38.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Sookite
Date: 15 Mar 09 - 01:24 AM

Ken, Bruce plays Saturday, April 18 at our monthly coffee house in Sooke (sookefolkmusicsociety.com) and Saturday, April 25 at O'Beans Cafe in Victoria. I/m stll trying to secure one or more gigs inbetween.

Yes Sooke Harbour House is still very much in business. As you probably already know, it's a world class high end establishment and has catored to the likes of Richard Gere and Tom Cruise. My wife and I ate there once earlier on when it wasn't so fancy smancy.
DG

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Beer
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 11:42 PM

That was a great read Bobad. Thanks for the link.
Adrien

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: KenM
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 10:54 PM

Bob: This thread prompted me to do a little background review and I couldn't believe it was that long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: bobad
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 10:47 PM

This past February 11 was the 40th. anniversary of the event (can you believe that Ken?).

Concordia's newspaper, The Link, had this article on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: KenM
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 10:28 PM

Dorothey Eber....that was the name of the author of The Computer Centre Party.

Rosie Douglas was the leader of the Caribbean students who took over the computer centre on the ninth floor of the Hall Building and later the Faculty Club on the seventh floor. He was deported and eventually became briefly the Prime Minister of Dominica....I think he died in office at a relatively young age.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: KenM
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 10:10 PM

Damn.....that book about the computer center riot at SGWU seems to have fallen victim to too many moves and too many years.
Bob.....you are absolutely right....Lincoln was the name of the street.

Dave.... yes, the Victoria Clipper.....I was sure there was a high speed boat. What night(s) is(are) Bruce performing? This might work. I need two days in Seattle (work days....during the week). Is the Sooke Harbor House Restaurant still in business? My wife (Pat) and I had a memorable meal there many moons agao.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Sookite
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 09:39 PM

yes Ken, there is a vessel that goes daily between Seattle and Victoria called the Victoria Clipper. If you google that name you'll get their website

DG

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Sookite
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 06:22 PM

If any of you are curious about ne, you can check out my website davegallant.com

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: GUEST,sookite
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 12:24 PM

Ken....Bruce is here from April 18 to 25 inclusive

DG

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Beer
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 10:20 AM

Sookite,
Maybe you would be interested in having a look at this web site and checking the thread on it that I just refreshed.
Adrien

http://www.applehollowmusicfest.org/

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Beer
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 10:05 AM

Welcome on board Sookite. May your stay be an enjoyable one.
Adrien

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: bobad
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 07:18 AM

Right Ken, and the street you mentioned that you lived on sounds like Lincoln to me, I was a neighbour, living on St. Marc at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: KenM
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 11:45 PM

bobad........re: the Sir George computer riot. That is too much that we may have been standing shoulder-to-shoulder watching the computer cards and running like hell from the falling glass. Coincidently, I also had a female friend (two actually) who were arrested on that day...off-line and in a pm, we need to share names...it would also be a riot (pardon the pun) if they were the same people as well. I also knew some of the initial protesters because they were majors (as I was) in the Applied Social Sciences program at SGWU.

As Adrien knows, all our bookcases are in our guest bedroom and we have new occupiers in there since Adrien returned to The Great White North (March seems to be a VERY popular month for northerners to flee to southwest Florida). Once I get a chance, I'll get in there and look for that book about the computer center event at Sir George that I referenced in an earlier posting.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: KenM
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 11:26 PM

Welcome, bienvenue, Dave....aka sookite. bobad is correct.....this is generally a harmless bunch though the word-play can leave you scratching your head some time. What are the dates Bruce is playing out in your neck of the woods, Dave? I need to make a business trip to the University of Washington in Seattle and I was waiting until I could have some probablity that it wouldn't rain every f*^k#*g day I was there. I think there's a fast hydrafoil boat from Seattle to Victoria, isn't there? I might try and schedule this trip around the time Murdoch is there and hop over to the island from Seattle.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: bankley
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 07:02 PM

Sookite ? aw hell, I was gonna use that one.... bienvenue mon vieux

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: bobad
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 06:46 PM

Welcome Dave, we're generally a harmless bunch.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: meself
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 06:46 PM

Welcome aboard! (We need all the Canuckians we can get!).

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Sookite
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 06:42 PM

Just to let some folks know, I joined the Mudcat. Thought I'd use the handle Sookite as I'm living in Sooke BC and it's not likely anyone else will be using the name

Dave Gallant

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 04:29 PM

"I mentioned John Cousineau a few posts up. Anyone got any info on him?"

John was the guy who taught me the basics of guitar. We had a trio called "The Triads" and we played rock a la Ventures. Did some gigs back then. John was the lead guitarist, Yves (John's brother) was the drummer and I was rhythm guitar. John was 15 and Yves and I were 12 ansd 13 respectively. We did some gigs and had lots of fun. I think John was about two years older than me and he later wrote a song that was recorded by Richie Havens entitled "Sandy" which was written for a dear friend of mine who is still living in Montreal. John is around but he looks lots younger than 63. Great guy and a wonderful friend. Haven't seen him since about 1970(?). If you can access Facebook he's on it.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: bobad
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 02:10 PM

Ken, I was perhaps standing next to you on the day of the computer massacre, that's where I also watched it from. In one of those strange convergences that often happen, I ended up knowing quite well one the female participants and also working with another fellow who was one of the arrested, we had both been hired by the father of the female's roommate. I also, much later, got to know Perry Anderson, the central figure against whom the charges of racism sparked the riot.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: KenM
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 01:48 PM

Yup, that's the same guy, Ron......you nailed it....spaced-out and childlike. I woonder whatever happened to him?

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: meself
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 12:18 PM

Yeah, I remember vaguely - everything's a little fuzzy from back then - this guitarist John Pimm being around a communal house I was living in for awhile. He was a friend of friends of my older brother (I was just a Hippie-In-Training). I remember being struck by his name, which is the only reason I remembered it at all: sounded like a character from Treasure Island ...

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: bankley
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 12:13 PM

Wasn't Marshall the singer for Cannabali ? He was a character...spaced-out, childlike... very open...
I knew the keyboard player well, David Fowler...who showed up in Montreal with a Vancouver band called 'The Family Dog'... he stayed in Mtl many years before moving to Toronto and playing with reggae co-op band The Satallites.... David and I worked together during the Mtl. period...

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: KenM
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 11:57 AM

I was still living in Verdun for part of that time. Used to catch the last Wellington Street bus (sometime around 3 a.m.) at the corner of Peel and St. Catherine. Later I moved to a place on a little street that ran west off Guy, between de Maisoneuve and Sherbrooke, can't remember the name......all I remember is that a young woman who lived in the same apertment building got murdered one night in late 1969 or early 1970.......scared the shit out of me.

Anybody on here remember Marshall Hopkins? He was a champion swimmer and went to Verdun High the same time Murdoch and I were there. He went out to Simon Fraser on a swim scholarship but dropped out after a year and then went to Sir George. Spent most of his time smoking dope, though. He would periodically show up on my doorstep of that place near Guy Street looking for a place to crash.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: KenM
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 11:47 AM

I'm late to this thread.....Adrien told me about it on the phone last night. It sure brings back alot of memories. Like Dave Gallant, I remember the Blue Lantern and the New Penelope back in the mid-sixties. Right next door to the Stanley Tavern as I recall. We used to eat at an Italian restaurant on St. Catherine after the last set at the Blue Lantern....can't remember the name but it was on the south side of the street between Stanley and Peel.

I remember that God-awful Swiss Hut, as well. Some of us posting on this thread are lucky we got out of that place alive.

Stephanie.....there was a pretty active counter-culture scene on Alymer Street, as I recall.....part of the McGill ghetto.

I was a student at Sir George during the computer center riot and can still recall standing on Bishop St. watching the computer cards cascading down......then the fire started and the firemen started breaking windows and glass started falling......what a time!! I think I still have a tattered copy of the book that was written about that incident, it was called "The Computer Center Party"......I'll have to check when I get home tonight.

Keep the memories flowing.....

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: bankley
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 11:45 AM

yeah Pimm moved to Toronto after The Rabble broke up.... he wanted to see if he could make it as a guitar player, since most of the Rabble guitar work was done by Harris and Metcalfe.... he did really well for himself in that city... glad he's still at it...

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: bankley
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 11:40 AM

I know Alan had an older brother..not sure of his name or the possible Ted Ziegler connection.. "When the Lads come a-marching" schalllp !

Alan Nichols was the lead singer for JB and the Playboys.. he went on to do Hair on Broadway, then got into screenwriting and acting in several Robert Altman films...parts in Slapshot, Nashville, The Wedding etc.... also directed the excellent out of Hell' by Meatloaf.. ran into him in Westmount in the 80's... he was thinking of moving to Vermont.. a very talented and nice man...

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: GUEST,Dave Gallant
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 11:28 AM

For meself....John Pimm was in the Rabble. I don't know if he lived in Toronto and I can't ask him as he is wintering in Costa Rica at present. I know he's always done music as a career full time so he has been around.

Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question
From: john f weldon
Date: 13 Mar 09 - 11:25 AM

The last bunch of posts are filled with names and places I don't know. But wayyy back someone mentioned Alan Brown. Did he have an older brother Chris? And for a while have a short-lived band with Dane Lanken and Bob Pressner? Did he work for Johnny Jellybean? And, most importantly, did the sounds of their band once come out of Johnny Jellybean's Squawk Box?