english concertina sounding like anglo

Subject: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 07:01 AM

this can be acheived by taking the scale of g major,and playing the english in the same way,as some irish anglo players do.
Gpush,a pull,b pull ,c push, d pull or push ,e pull, f sharp pull ,Gpush.
more a less the same for d major[depends on whether c# is on a pull or push on ones box
if this is used in combination with finger attack,more bounce can be acheived[if this is what the player wants].
personally, I dont think it is necessary for Northumbrian music[finger attack suffices],or for airs.,or for songs.
I am experimenting with this at the moment,but am not sure whether it is as good as following fiddle slurring and reversing bellows at the beginning and end of a slur.
.

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 08:33 AM

Some years ago, I found on the web a lady who is fairly well known for playing the English in the style of the Anglo. Forget the details, sorry. But I seem to remember that she used wrist straps...

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 09:36 AM

why????

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 09:51 AM

Because you CAN... :-)

as indeed, with the correct technique, you can make a piano accordion sound like a Cajun Box, and I have seen a guy play a button box in a way that sound (if yo closed your eyes), just like a piano accordion.

It does of course, take more skill than the OomPah style of squeezebox playing...

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 10:24 AM

well ,I reckon that if you were reversing the bellows,as if you were playing up the g row of an anglo you would need wrist straps,but if you just reverse on g and c and d notes,you might not need them,however I am not against wrist straps if it makes the playing more comfortable

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: Tootler
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 05:54 PM

I suspect that Guest Chris's "Why????" may refer to your original post. If it does, then it is an interesting question.

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:21 PM

well there are bigots that reckon,Irish music can only be sucessfully played on an anglo,since what differentiates the english from the anglo,is reversing the bellows on certain notes of the scale,it would be interesting to learn a couple of tunes and reverse bellows in the style of an irish anglo player,record it on sound lantern,and fool them into thinking it was an anglo.

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: Crane Driver
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 08:39 PM

Sadly, if it were possible to cure bigots by making fools of them, they'd have vanished long ago.

It would make more sense for an english concertina player to play like a fiddle, flute or pipes, all of which successfully play Irish music without even having bellows to reverse.

If you're surrounded by bigots, you're in the wrong place.

Andrew

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 04:36 AM

good point, Andrew.
The fiddle is interesting,reversing bellows,before and after a fiddlers slur,puts an interesting emphasis on the music
.the other day I played some polkas,following Matt Cranitchs bowing,in his fiddle tutor,an interesting experiment,experimentation is always good.
this winter I have decided to allocate 30 minutes a day to learning the anglo.

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: Alan Day
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 04:58 AM

It seems to me that a Fiddle player has the same options as an English and Duet Concertina player.A Fiddle player can play certain tunes 8 bars on the full length of the bow and 8 bars in the opposite direction,but chooses not to, using certain fiddle techniques to enhance the sound of the playing.The same applies for a English and Duet some specifying the only way to play tunes is the full length of the bellows in one direction and the same in reverse.This creates a boring sound with very little creation and lacks drive and bounce to the music.At least Dick is experimenting and I wish him every success.
Al

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 05:23 AM

"Fiddle player can play certain tunes 8 bars on the full length of the bow and 8 bars in the opposite direction,but chooses not to, using certain fiddle techniques to enhance the sound of the playing.The same applies for a English and Duet some specifying the only way to play tunes is the full length of the bellows in one direction and the same in reverse.This creates a boring sound with very little creation and lacks drive and bounce to the music"

I remember being told at one Accordion Festival that my decision to play part of a tune on only the single reed setting of my 2 reeder 32 bass "was bad and not proper accordion technique".... ????? :-P

W*nkers abound... :-)

hmmmm.....

W*nkers abound my boys!
W*nkers abound!



sorry,, Ill take the tablets...

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 05:31 AM

Robert Harbron points out that the advantage of an English is that you can change bellows direction whenever you want, between repeated notes if you like.

Because you don't have to, it is easy to be lazy and just drift back and forth with continuous "bow strokes". It takes practice. I'm working on it (intermittently).

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: treewind
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 06:10 AM

I've been accused of making my Anglo sound like an English.
I think it was intended to be a compliment... make what you will of it.
I do have a party trick, of course, where I try to make the Anglo sound like a duet...

Anahata

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 06:42 AM

of course,one can change bellows directions every four bars and still put life in to the music by using finger attack.
even when you are going in one direction,you can still give little pulls or pushes to the bellows,for extra emphasis.
if one takes pipes,both northumbrian and uillean,the first rely upon articulation and seperation,which can be acheived by finger attack,.
Both these different sets of pipes rely upon a steady flow of air through the bellows,the irish uillean pipe players,use alot of ornamentation .
Pipers cannot reverse their bellows so they acheive rhythm differently.
incidentally some fiddle styles [Padraig O Keefe],do on occasions use several bars of long bows,and acheive rhythm through left hand ornamentation,cuts etc.
I recently played two concerts in Sicily,played several sets of tunes,using bellows system of changing every four bars [Ithink], Iwas not consciously reversing,they were not played boringly,and were very well received,but I was playing mainly northumbrian tunes using a lot of finger attack.
Experimentation is a good idea,because it often leads to new discoverys.,and their will obviously be a difference in sound when one reverses bellows.
however, Alistair Anderson,manages to get lots of life in to his playing,but advises in his tutor,to change bellows every so many bars,but he also moves his concertina up an down while going in the same direction ,and is clearly emphasising with little pulls or pushes even while going in the same direction.
Robert Harbron is quite right too,and I think its important to consider all possibilities,
to dismiss the system advocated by Frank Butler and Alistair Anderson is also a mistake ,but if one uses this system it is important to try and emulate Alistair,by moving the box,and by using finger attack.

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 06:51 AM

my comments are aimed at the playing of dance tunes,not songs, it is important to mention that punch can also be added by using chord notes and octaves regardless of direction.
Seperation of notes is also important
it is acomplex issue,to which there is not a simple answer,but is worth discussing.
http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=4507
how about this for making an english soumnd like a duet

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 11:52 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eimMwaIqR6s
that is fairly bouncy,not exactly like an anglo,but there is seperation between the notes,I am using bellows movements of the kind advocated by Alistair Anderson in his tutor, it can be seen from my arm movememts I am working the bellows fairly hard[even when going in the same direction].
I believe that buy playing the anglo as well[as I am just starting to do]that I can develop the bounciness even more.

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 02:13 PM

another useful technique in jig time,is to experiment with reversing the bellows,on every first beat of the bar,where one might tap ones foot.
of course it can be predictable,if you dont sometimes vary it,sometimes to play the lead in note with the first beat,much as some traditional fiddlers mighton one bow,can sound good also.
but as the main emphasis is on the first beat of six in jig time,a reversal at this point,will help that emphasis,occasionally reversing on the fourth beat will give some variety too.

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 02:59 PM

to illustrate that their are several ways to acheive emphasis.if one takes the first two bars of Garret Barrys jig d e f#. g dotted crotchet,a g a. c nat dotted crotchet,now if the player reverses bellowson the two dooted crotchets emphasis will be acheived,if the player doesnt reverse bellows but uses an octave,on the g and the c,emphasis will still be acheived.
an anglo player would have to reverse on the g and c,but would also have to reverse between the g a g the latter is unmusical[imo],
so to conclude Robert Harbron is quite right,in that the English allows you to reverses where you wish.
but much can be learned from studying the Anglo,and copying some of the reversing,but reversing isnt the be all and end all,emphasis can be acxheived in other ways[use of octaves or chords ,for example.

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 02:28 PM

Many of you Mucatters should count yourself lucky. I have an Anglo, G and D, made by MB in East Germany (when it was East Germany) and it doesn`t even sound like an Anglo!!

Subject: RE: english concertina sounding like anglo
From: Tootler
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 05:59 PM

reversing isn't the be all and end all, emphasis can be achieved in other ways - use of octaves or chords, for example.

A friend recently lent me a couple of Scan Tester CD's and he plays a lot of single line melody with chords and octaves for emphasis. A different style of anglo playing from the Irish, but well worth studying.