BS: Joe the Plumber

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:22 PM

Caribou Barbie is a cooked up fictitious name.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:53 PM

The name "CarolC" is cooked up, fictional.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:40 PM

Come to think of it, Bobert..you might be right!!...I'll call a folk singer, and he can play 'Kumbaya' and will, and vibe, the turd to go down, until the toilet ands the coda, of 'Glock.......glock..glock'!

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:40 PM

When you quote and add a bit, it's best to indicate where the quote ends, to avoid confusion.
..............................................

People who try to fix stuff they don't know how to fix are a great source of income for the professionals. There's stuff we can do, and there's stuff we can't do, and the trick is to know the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:31 PM

From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:44 AM

Okay, GfS... Next time yer toilet backs up, call a folk musican... lol...
That is about as silly an analogy as I have ever heard... Geeze...

If my toilet backs up, I'll fix it my own fucking self...what? I need government plumber-caid???...what a bunch of wimps!

Foolestroupe: I missed something?? What? I'm not beyond retracting, when appropriate...

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:06 AM

"If McCain can convince some people that the typical middle-class stiff earns more than a quarter million a year"... he's going to make most people feel they are really doing badly, total failures in worldy terms.

Is this really such a good tactic?

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:27 AM

I know not about California's licensing laws, but Ohio requires licensing for a plumber (not just an employee of a plumbing company), to do most plumbing work. As I recall reading, anything to do with water supply, with sewage disposal, and other hazardous undertakings. They require an apprenticeship, which is a period of working under the direction of a LICENSED plumber, and then a test. Joe "the plumber", from all indications, started but did not finish his apprenticeship. So he's qualified, as I would gather it, to change washers in faucets, and ream out drains, and highly technical things like that.

Now he might (if the rumor about Warren Buffet is true) be able to buy out his boss, but he still can't legally do most of the work. He says, as I recall hearing, that he's "preparing" to take the plumbing contractor exam. If so, I can't see how he'll be allowed even to sit for the exam, without an even an apprenticeship behind him, and a history of working as a plumber without a license.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:55 AM

"As usual, you know less than nothing about your chosen topic. But that of course does not stop you from honoring us with more of your best drivel--again."


                      Ron - I suggest you read the rest of the post, especially the part where we talk about business and who does and doesn't not need a license.

                      In California, builders all over the state were hiring illegal aliens to function as plumbers before the building boom exploded. Many of them couldn't even speak English. How much formal instruction could they have had? Their employer would have to have a license.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:44 AM

Okay, GfS... Next time yer toilet backs up, call a folk musican... lol...

That is about as silly an analogy as I have ever heard... Geeze...

Some folks, as evidenced by American Idol, are born with good voices and learn to sing on their own... The operative word here is "learn"... Lotta folks "learn" by just lsitening and singing along... That's an acceptable way to learn...

In the trades that is what apprenticeship programs are for... It allows one to observe (listen) and "learn" from, like singing, practice... That's the part that JtP apparently hasn't done... That's where, as an employer, I say, "Hey, this guy is just going to cost me money because he doesn't know what he's doing and I'm probably going to have to go behind him and chean up is mess..."

You know, kinda like what Obama is going to have to do...

Really, when you look at John McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as his VP it makes perfect sense that McCain would put his campaign in the hands of someone like Joe the Plumber...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:24 AM

"..so actually, it doesn't ASS-U-MEs' anything!"

You obviously missed the point.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 03:56 AM

The problem with that one is that it ASS-U-MEs that there is only ONE type of muso..

You forgot, or didn't see, or are just being contentious, that I said,..
Orbison, and Elvis Presley, FOR STARTERS...'

..so actually, it doesn't ASS-U-MEs' anything!.Keep your Ass to yourself...and around your head!

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:58 AM

I cannot comment on the position in the USA but to do anything other than the simplest of tasks in the plumbing field in the UK, (I have just had a boiler installed for example) has to be done by a registered plumber.

It stops people being blown up for starters. It stops people being asphyxiated by carbon monoxide poisoning. It stops floods between floorboards.

It ain't easy to sue if you are dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: DougR
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:09 AM

I know you folks don't watch Fox News Network (Fair and Balanced) so I thought you might be interested to know that Warren Buffet is going to provide Joe the Plumber with the start-up capital to purchase his boss's business! I knew that would lighten your hearts a bit. You are the champions of the common folks, right? Let's hear it for JOE THE PLUMBER! And Warren Buffet too, of course. He recognizes a entrepreneur when he sees one.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 12:55 AM

"Frank Sinatra, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Roy Orbison and Elvis Presley for starters, couldn't read or write music...I guess they weren't musicians"

The problem with that one is that it ASS-U-MEs that there is only ONE type of muso...

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:23 PM

Give up, Mr. Hypocrite, (AKA CEO of Smears R Us).   As usual, you know less than nothing about your chosen topic. But that of course does not stop you from honoring us with more of your best drivel--again.

Anybody who saw the actual encounter would know Obama, far from sneering, told "Joe" he respected him, even if he did not get his vote.

He approached Obama, not the reverse.

Anybody who knows anything about business--which leaves both you and "Joe" out, evidently-- knows that you do have to realize there is a difference between gross and net. And "Joe" well knew the business did not come close to making $250,000 net profit/ yr.   It probably didn't even come close to $250,000 gross.

And he knew--and admitted later--that he wasn't "getting ready" to buy the business anytime soon.

He misrepresented himself start to finish.

I've also read that "Joe" is a registered donor to the McCain campaign--question is as of when-- and a registered Republican.   I suspect these can be confirmed.

And now McCain is trying to make him into an icon of the middle class hurt by Obama's tax plans.

A conceit false from top to bottom.

In common with most of your postings.



Pleasant dreams.
.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:21 PM

It's not a matter of taste..it's perception dysfunction...try that one on for size.

As so far as no minimum training for playing music...ummm, you don't get audiences, do you??

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: TIA
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:57 PM

There's no minimum training nor licensing requirement to play music (thank goodness for me).

Music is a matter of taste. Not legal code.

But you get analogy *attempt* points.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:42 PM

From: Bobert
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 08:26 PM

Well, Rigs... The guy ain't licensed..

Frank Sinatra, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Roy Orbison and Elvis Presley for starters, couldn't read or write music...I guess they weren't musicians, either......oh well...

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: TIA
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:35 PM

Yup, that's what it boils down to folks. Vote for McCain if you love Joe the plumber and hate Bill Ayers. That's the platform right there. Good thing we are all thinking clearly about the big picture and our kids' futures.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:29 PM

None of this--whether he's a plumber, whether he's a shill, whether he lied or not--makes the slightest difference. If McCain can convince some people that the typical middle-class stiff earns more than a quarter million a year, he's done what he set out to do.

dick the pauper (relatively speaking)

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 08:26 PM

Well, Rigs... The guy ain't licensed... He started an apprentice program and couldn't even complete that... I'm a contractor... I undertand tradesman... I understant plumbing... And electrical stuff... And purdy much ebverything about building...

I'm tellin' you that if this guy came to me and said he was a plumber and I found out he couldn't even get thru an apprenticeship, I might hire him anyway but as a laborer or plumber's helper (laborer) at the same wage that I would hire any kid outta high school without an skills...

Maybe you know something I don't about the building trade, I don't know... But hiring folks that don't know sh*t from Shinola ain't all that smart 'cause eventually yer gonna have to fix the stuff they screwed up... Ain't worth hiring these folks... Unfortuately for both John McCain and Joe the UnPlumber, this the real world...

Apparently neither of them undertsand much about the real world...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 07:55 PM

Why would we think that Joe is not a plumber? That's what he does for a living; he works as a plumber for a plumbing contractor. That part of the scenario really doesn't make sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 07:40 PM

No, he wouldn't at all, Rigs... That is silly talk...

McCain's folks are desperate... They are lookin' anywhere they can to find some traction and along comes this guy Joe who who is asking Obama questions about his tax plans...

A little brain storming later and Joe the Plumber is born... Not there on that street but in McCain's campaign war room...

This is how it went down and trying to rewrite it is just nonsense... I watched the discussion between Obama and Joe and at no time did Joe say, "I'm Joe the Plumber"... McCain's people made this guy "Joe" into "Joe the Plumber"...

That's the fabrication part, Rigs... That's where reality gets distorted (propoganda) into mythology...

Hey, this guy ain't even a plumber... He's just a guy with an ax ro grind and a very willing and desperate Republican ticket all to happy to promote him into being the poster boy of what they percieve is wrong with Obama???

Convoluted???

You betcha...

Fact is starnger than fiction... althought with McCain the fiction is getting very entertaining...

(That makes you an elitest, Bobert... Did you ever hang 'round with Bill Ayers???)

See what I mean, Rigs??? This is getting purdy juvenilistic on yer boy's part...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 06:33 PM

"Joe the Plumber was invented by the McCain campaign team to use as propoganda..."


             The stars would have had to have lined up for him. He would have to have known Joe, know where Joe lived, know Joe was a plumber, and know Obama would come walking down Joe's street at the same time Joe was out in his driveway playing catch with a football.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 05:47 PM

The company Sam (his real name) works for Grossed just over $100,000 last year.

The whole story is, in fact, pure propaganda.

And Obama has never sneered at Joe the plumber, or any plumber, or any working person. The sneer is aimed at the propagandists, but that's not what Hannity is telling you, so you'll never get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 05:45 PM

Well, well, well...

First of all, CarolC is entirely correct... Joe the Plumber was invented by the McCain campaign team to use as propoganda... The guy ain't licensed, couldn't get thru an apprenticeship program and therefore ain't in a position to operate a plumbing company... Them's is the laws... Yeah, he can legally buy it and pay a real plumber who is licensed to run it but he can't run it without a license... But making $40K a year and being behind on his taxes, there isn't a snowball's cahnce in hell that he could even do that...

But nevermind Joe the Plumber, for now...

I heard Barak Obama yesterday and he has seemlessly put an end to this short lived desperate McCain trick in saying that McCain's tax proposals are not for Joe the Plumber but for "Joe the Hedge Fund Manager", or "Joe the CEO"...

Reckon that this outta put poor ol' Joe the Plumber out of his misery...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 05:17 PM

I heard a few days ago that Joe is no relation to the Keating 5 character of the same last name and from the same state (even though it would not seem to be a very common name).

I can't give a citation. My only reason for readily accepting it as true is that the person who told me is someone who would have loved the truth to be otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 05:13 PM

Wirzlebacher is a familiar name. One of the Keating Five from Ohio.

Joe the Plumber doesn't make 250,000 a year. He isn't a plumber but a contractor.
He hasn't voted and is in tax arrears.

Joe isn't his real name.

Joe is a fraud.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 04:58 PM

Here's The Ballad of Joe the Plumber, by Ukes for Obama.

I've just posted a link to it on this thread above the line - with the comment "And I'm glad to see the target isn't Joe, it's the man who's been trying use him as an assault weapon, McCain."

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 04:04 PM

Not a question of giving the man credit, it's just that it's really nobody else's business whether he was saying things that weren't true, even if that was intentional.   

Any blame for this should rest squarely on McCain and his team, and on no one else. McCain is in a different position from Joe - he does an obligation to tell the truth, and can rightly be blamed when he distorts the truth, as has happened in this case

Maybe initially it was a matter of failure to do basic homework and checking the facts before putting the spotlight on this man, and using him as a weapon against Obama. Subsequently, as the true facts have emerged, it has become a matter of distortion verging on lies. Not unusual in politicians, but always something for which they should be made to pay a price. And the same should apply to the parts of tey media which have colluded in this.

But it seems to me that going on about Joe's misstatement of his financial situation in his conversation with Obama is aiming at completely the wrong target.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 03:01 PM

Several here have said it makes no odds that he's not really buying (or even "preparing to buy") his boss's little two-man company, let alone a company that nets in excess of $250,000. They suggest, charitably speaking, that his real meaning was that there are or may be those in that position, and he just personalized it to himself.

Let's say that that's the case. If he had only added one of two words, "say" or "suppose", before "I am preparing to buy". . . or before "I am buying". . .   That would make clear what those charitable posters want to give him credit for doing.

If he'd only said that (which we'll assume for the moment is what he "really meant") how much argle-bargle would have been saved! McCain wouldn't have gotten egg on his face, and Obama would presumably have said exactly what he DID say, and then just think how much indignation might have been saved for all and sundry!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:42 PM

And yet, he was supposed to complete his apprenticeship last year, and he has not done that. He doesn't appear to be making any preparations for buying and operating that business.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:39 PM

Yes, he would need to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:35 PM

According to the authorities in the area in which he works, he needs a license to be a plumber. However, even if that's not the case, his boss has a plumbing license, and he claims that's the license he's been working under. So under those circumstances, if Joe wants to buy and operate that business, he's going to need to get that plumber's license.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:23 PM

If he's working for a plumbing contractor, and is physically doing the work we know a plumbing, he' a plumber. He's not a plumbing contractor. You have to have a license to be a plumbing contractor, but not to be a plumber.

                In the states that I'm familiar with, in order to have a license, you would have to post a bond and show proof of both Liability and Worker's Compensation Insurance. All of those things are expensive, and you wouldn't purchase any of it unless you were ready to engage in the actuall business of contracting.

                The fact that the union in putting out damaging information about Joe would simply lead one to assume that he's working for a non-union shop. That pisses off union officials for obvious reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:09 PM

"More likely perhaps he was dreaming about what he'd like to do,..."

That's exactly the point: Joe was and is basing his vote and his entire political philosophy on dreaming: IF he were five or six times richer than he actually is, then, sure, he would benefit from the Republican policy.

He doesn't stop to consider that, if indeed he were to succeed in fulfilling his dreams, it might not be quite so painful for him to pony up a few extra tax dollars.

And he certainly isn't stopping to think about his actual, real-world, current circumstances, wherein he's not a superplumber taking home a cool quarter-million as personal income.

He's a working stiff who is paying MORE than his fair share of taxes, thanks to the ever-more-favorable treatment of the overprivileged that we've experienced in recent years, and he will benefit when Obama and the Democrats take some of that load back off his shoulders by restoring the tax codes to their former more-equitable formulation.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:03 PM

And it's the country in which I will be living for the next four years.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:00 PM

Well, I think you're wrong there. But it's your election.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:55 PM

I disagree with the idea that showing Joe's lies for what they are plays into McCain's hands. McCain is still using Joe the Plumber as a propaganda tool. Poking holes in the lies makes it harder for McCain to use that propaganda tool with any success.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:53 PM

If he was really planning on buying that business, he would be working to get his plumbing license. Looks like he's not doing that. He started an apprenticeship that should have been completed last year, but wasn't.

Some of Joe the Plumber's lies...


'When Barack Obama and Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher (aka Joe The Plumber) met recently in Ohio, the two got to talking about small businesses. Wurzelbacher told the senator he's a "plumber" and he's looking to buy a company. Obama asked how long he'd been a plumber. "Fifteen years," Wurzelbacher replied.

Oh, really?

Wurzelbacher registered as an apprentice with the Ohio State Apprenticeship Council in November 2003, according to Dennis Evans, spokesman with the Department of Job and Family Services. Records show his training, which was sponsored by A & W Newell Co. of Toledo, should have wrapped last year.

"We don't have a record of completion," Evans said. "All we know is that he registered in the program and has gone through to the point where we should have record of completion, but we don't."

And that's not the only record that's missing from Wurzelbacher's file. He doesn't have a plumbing license required by the city of Toledo to practice, according to a staffer with the Toledo Division of Building Inspection. Wurzelbacher, who now works for Newell Plumbing & Heating Co., said the owner, Al Newell, has a plumbing license and that "because he works for someone else, he doesn't need a license."

But even that's not true, according to the Toledo Division of Building Inspection. Wurzelbacher can't legally do plumbing work without a license, regardless of his boss's certification.

A staff person with the Toledo Division of Building Inspection told On Call this afternoon that her division will contact Wurzelbacher to notify him that he can't work without a license.

"We're trying to track him down," she said.

In the meantime, the Democrat-friendly local plumbers' union is fuming.

"He has no license whatsoever with the city of Toledo," said Tom Joseph, the business manager for Local Union 50 of the Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics, which has endorsed Obama. "He has no license in the state of Ohio. He has no contractor's license in the state of Ohio. He is not a plumber. He works for a plumber."

What about Wurzelbacher's claim that he is "gettin' ready to buy a company that makes about two hundred and fifty, two hundred and seventy, two hundred and eighty thousand dollars a year" ... ? Wurzelbacher told reporters that when he was hired by Newell six years ago "the possibility of him eventually buying the company was discussed during his job interview."

According to Joseph, Newell Plumbing & Heating is far from a $250K-a-year operation. Newell is running "a two-man shop," he said. "This is not a thriving business."

Isn't there a chance it could be worth $250K? "Oh, God no," Joseph said. "Maybe if he sells him the house, the garage." He explained that the address for the business "is where the man lives at."

"The real Joe Plumbers are for Barack," Joseph added.'

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/10/im_not_a_plumbe.html


That's a lot of lies, and they undermine any credibility he has when he says pretty much anything at all. My guess is what Joe the Plumber would really like to do with his life is have his own radio talk show. And that looks like a dream that he may very well realize.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:51 PM

"No, Rig, he admitted to Diane Sawyer he doesn't make enough money to buy a business."


                      I'm not sure what that means. Some business can be had pretty cheaply right now. I'm not aware of what he told Diane Sawyer.

                      I saw him on one talk show describing how he was in the process of preparing to take the test for his contracting license. Of course he could just sit on an inactive license, I suppose, but it sounded like he figured on going into business at some point.
                      All of that having been said, now is a really bad time to go into business, unless you're an auctioneer or a process server.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM

But why shouldn't he lie? Surely freedom of speech includes the right to tell porkies about yourself?

Wasting energy on criticising this bloke diverts attention from McCain's rather more serious porkies. And the effect is to play right into McCain's hands. Makes it easy for him to present himself as the defender of a working man who is under attack by these nasty liberal media types. Diverts attention from the real issues, and helps to ensure that a lot of ordinary people are going to worry about being hurt by tax plans that would in fact benefit them (like the real Joe).

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Alice
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:42 PM

No, Rig, he admitted to Diane Sawyer he doesn't make enough money to buy a business. He's certainly free to have an American dream about it, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:31 PM

No, I don't think Joe lied at all; at least there's nothing to suggest that he did. He could very well have been negotiating to buy the plumbing business.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:27 PM

Joe still lied when he said he's in the process of buying the business. Which makes it pretty hard to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the question of whether or not he was lying about how much money the business makes.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:17 PM

And there's always the possibility that the owner is losing his ass right now, and he's giving Joe a glowing report of how wonderful things are as the owner of a plumbing business. This is a pretty common practice in this industry.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:08 PM

I bet those people haven't made any agreements to buy the boss's business, though. If they had, they would know how much money the business nets.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:07 PM

John McCain also created the iconographic imagery that he is using in reference to Joe the Plumber. He refers to Joe the Plumber as a business man. Joe the Plumber is not a business man. He talks about this guy as if he were representative of the majority of voters. He is not representative of the majority of voters. He says Joe the Plumber is the engine of our economy. Joe the Plumber is not the engine of our economy. He doesn't own a business, and he has no employees. McCain keeps saying that Joe the Plumber would be hurt by Obama's tax plan. This is a total fiction. The guy McCain is calling Joe the Plumber is a classic example of the kind of person who would benefit from Obama's tax plan. McCain is using this guy he calls Joe the Plumber as a propaganda tool, because McCain can't get the majority of people to vote for him without resorting to the use of propaganda (or even with it, apparently).

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:06 PM

His story is not false. I can tell you from personal experience that people who work in various trades often think the owner(s) of the business make a great deal of money. Quite often, especially in economic conditions like we're experiencing now, the guy out in the field doing the work is making more than the owner.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe the Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 12:49 PM

I would have agreed that what Joe said or didn't say about himself isn't all that relevant had he not then gone on to make numerous appearances various talk shows and news programs. This guy was clearly selling himself on US television, and promoting a particular political viewpoint in the process. That makes what he said about his history relevant to the voters of this country. His "story" was giving him cache on the public stage, and if his story was false, that cache is an illusion.