Why We Liked Pop Anyway

Subject: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 08:44 PM

With folk there were acoustic instruments to strum and meaningful lyrics to ponder and history to be part of. But if you were growing up in the 60s you liked pop anyway, because...

I Think We're Alone Now -- Summer of '67 and Chris Milleron. Tom-boyish, dimpled smile, and just a bit duckfooted so that as she walked, her straight, short, straw-colored hair swung from side to side above her shoulders in perfect rhythm to her step.

Tracy -- Summer of '68 and Cokie O'Brien. Blonde curls and couldn't-care-less-about-you look but she liked to dance.

Over You -- Summer of '69 and Karen Bowman. Sultry as a 13-year-old blonde could be. She caught my eye across the room at Tom Morgan's Bar Mitzvah party. We swayed to the music. I swear I can still smell her "Heaven Scent" perfume.

Close To You -- Summer of '70 and Linda Morgan. Shiny black hair and vivid onyx eyes. Lips looked exactly like Veronica's in the Archie comic books. She sent me my first love letter while I was at basketball camp that summer.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 10:01 PM

Ah. yes.

Traces -- Mark Rudnick, boy-girl parties, bell-bottoms, guitars.

Crystal-Blue Persuasion -- ditto.

Hitchin' a Ride -- no love interest, just dancing with all our buddies, thumbs hooked in the loops of our cutoffs, trying to be cool

Saturday in the Park -- Saturday in the Park, I think it was the fourth of july, in Chicago. No, really.

Lookin' Out my Back Door -- a few summer days in a sunlit Wisconsin with real Hippies; fresh corn out of the field, a little fire, talk, music, dew on tall grass.

Oooga-Chucka -- David Renz, first date, tidewater creeks, starlit parkway.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 10:15 PM

Perfectly reasonable to 'like' it, if that's yer pursusion...it's when you mis-identify it that we have issues.. ;>)

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 10:54 PM

well, that's quite a buzz kill. Could we get back to blissful pop memories for a while?

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:49 AM

Ahhhh yes, the 60's...when mediocrity was chic...

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: Hamish
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 03:26 AM

Brown Sugar.... ah, Mary...

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 06:36 AM

Mediocrity? the hell... The 60s were so stuffed full of talent and good music that those music makers are still legends. And the level of studio play -- yeah, the players you never even knew about because they stayed in the background -- was amazing. You realize that people like Bucky Pizzarelli played background on some pop tracks? Few people still know the music makers behind MoTown. And guys like Steve Cropper?

Mediocrity? the hell.

One of my first and happiest musical memory was being awakened early one bright, sunny Summer morning to my brother blasting...

.....DO YOU BELIEVE IN MAGIC?.....

...from his stereo in the next room. I've been a Sebastian fan ever since.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 07:52 AM

A cold February night, clear sky and myriad stars shining down, Walking out with my first boyfriend, with a tiny little portable radio providing music from Radio Luxemburg.

The song?

The Night Has A Thousand Eyes

A memory that is still with me almost fifty years later.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:58 AM

I LOVED The Night Has A Thousand Eyes!


On the side subject of pop "mediocrity", though...

Gary Lewis & the Playboys, Four Seasons, and several of the others were studio creations. Ever heard of the Wrecking Crew? Players like Carol Kaye, Tommy Tedesco, even Glenn Campbell, Hal Blaine, (and as I mentioned, Bucky Pizzarelli) played on countless hit records in the U.S.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:57 AM

There was plenty of wonderful stuff back then that may not have been folk or "real" blues but had to be taken "seriously" anyway: the Beatles, obviously, and plenty more. The recent passing of the golden-throated Levi Stubbs certgainly brings The Four Tops to mind, along with all of Motown, all of Memphis soul, etc.

On the other hand:

What sometimes amazes me these days is how much, in retrospect, I can now enjoy some of the more mindless candy-coated popmusic that I actively disliked back in its day, but that couldn't be avoided: "Build Me Up Buttercup," "Sugar Sugar," etc. I hear that stuff nowadays and I truly enjoy it!

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:21 PM

"Build Me Up Buttercup," "Sugar Sugar," etc. I hear that stuff nowadays and I truly enjoy it!

I unashamedly loved 'em then and I still love 'em today. But welcome to the club!

(And I still love Goodman, Miller, Shaw, Basie and all the ones who brought the previous generation of pop too!)

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:28 PM

I've liked all the stuff from (Benny)Goodman to (Steve)Goodman and beyond!

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:50 PM

I love rock and roll and R & B, Doo wop and all the rest. But I didn't inhale. I smile at this thread. The title sounds vaguely apologetic. Only on Mudcat... :-)

Jerry

And I wore blue suede shoes in the 50's.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:09 PM

"Sugar Sugar" still reminds me of all the reasons why I prefer going to a dentist to a disco. You know it won't take any longer than necessary, you don't have to pretend you are enjoying yourself, you usually come out feeling better than you did when you went in, and you don't have to hear a lot of loud nauseating crap the whole time. I like pop music, but there is plenty of that I would have been very happy to miss.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: M.Ted
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 05:31 PM

Meant to post yesterday--From "It Could Be We're In Love"--

Didn't it seem right, to walk along the sand last night,
And to gaze out at the night through your window.

Ann Wood was my first love, and the first one to break my heart.

Now they'd say, "She didn't break your heart. You're making it all about you. She made a choice that you don't want to acknowledge. You had a idealized view of your relationship that was based in your preconceived ideas about what a relationship should be. She couldn't be the person that she needed to be, and you couldn't see it. Furthermore, because you persist in that view, you are not able to move on.

Is it any wonder that they don't write songs like these any more?

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 05:37 PM

*big smile*, M.Ted

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 07:41 PM

Let's face it, pop is what folkies revert to when they want to appear cool and in touch. Unfortunately they are usually 30 years out of date.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 07:56 PM

"revert"?

hmmm. As far as I could tell, we were merely reminiscing. And that had little, if anything to do with what we might play or listen to tomorrow.

I've always been able to aurally chew gum and walk at the same time. I don't "revert". I switch around. I play around. I'm serious about lots of music. I figured out that I didn't have to hate any music in order to make more mental room to love another music.

I play guitar/mandolin -- fiddle tunes from "Nail That Catfish To The Tree" to "Cherokee Maggie"; Standards from "Stardust" to "Moonlight In Vermont"; "Folk" from "The Water Is Wide" to "Wayfaring Stranger"; Hymns from "Amazing Grace" to "Oh Love That Wilt Not Let Me Go"; Folk Rock from "America" to "Fire And Rain"; Novelty from "Vegamatic" to "It's A Sin To Tell A Lie".

It never occurred to me that I had to stop playing one in order to play the other.

...well, unless you're talking about simultaneously.

It's a big, wide open musical world out there.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 08:04 PM

I agree completely.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: Joe_F
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:38 PM

During the '60s (my 23rd to 33rd years) I managed to escape (so far as I can remember) every one of the songs mentioned in this thread.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: Effsee
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:14 PM

Martin Carthy
Heartbreak Hotel
Signs of Life(?)CD

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: M.Ted
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 04:37 PM

It is sad indeed that there are some folks who feel the need to express their disdain for the memories of others.

At any rate, I like you set lists, John Hardly, and strangely, have been playing "Stardust" intermittently. I hadn't played it for years, and it has figured in my life in a number of different in peculiar ways--

When in college, I bought the sheet music, and immediately had to confront my deficiencies as a guitar player-- didn't know how to play half the chords in the arrangement, and didn't know how to get most of the other ones to fit in--furthermore, though I could read the melody line, I had no idea how to play it on my guitar. It was what they nowadays refer to as "a wake-up call."

Finally figured out how to play what was on the sheet music, only to have someone play me the Django recording of the tune, which simultaneously lifted me up and pulled me down.

A few years later, I met my mentor, dear old Uncle Albert, who taught me how to really play the tune, and I happily banged away at it for quite sometime.

Then, one sunny afternoon, while picking through the melody, which is really like no other pop tune, it suddenly occurred to me that a kid from Indiana, years younger than I was, had just pulled it out of the air one day. And I still haven't gotten over that heartbreak...

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: Tootler
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 07:01 PM

My Father used to listen to Beethoven on the radio and everyone had to sit in reverential silence.

Then a friend of mine played rock around the clock on his record player one day and .... Wow!!!!!!!!!

My favourite from the late 50's is Buddy Holly. The lyrics may be a bit naff - but what energy - and that's what it was for me, the energy.

Folk came a bit later but I did get some early exposure which I only really appreciated later.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 07:13 PM

The Archies - Jingle Jangle Late spring of 1970 and Wendy K. She offered me a blowjob out behind the backstop after school. I accepted. But neither of us knew what it really was so she just leanded over, puckered her lips and lightly blew on my face. I remember feeling privileged but we were still to shy to kiss. Another regret...

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 07:55 PM

I don't think anyone can be objective about what happened when s/he was a teen ager. The veriest crap sparkles like gold in reminiscence.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 08:00 PM

Well, I didn't like Pop music back then, I despised it.

But I was an awful purist in my younger days. I have eased up on things since.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 08:11 PM

When I was a kid, pop music set my teeth on edge.

however, lately I have had the good fortune to listen to a band of 60+ guys doing those old pop favorites, and I now I realize that the music was better than I thought. The difference? The 60+ guys know how to sing.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 08:45 PM

"...it suddenly occurred to me that a kid from Indiana, years younger than I was, had just pulled it out of the air one day. And I still haven't gotten over that heartbreak...

Ha! Ain't that the truth. I've gone youTube crazy for the past few years (since I finally got DSL) and I stumbled upon a barely twenties James Taylor playing his recently penned "Carolina In My Mind". Blew my mind is what it did.

Stardust is simply astounding from any angle. I like to piece together arrangements by ear. I was messing around with another song -- couldn't even tell you what it was now -- and I stumbled on a chord -- X3X332 (obviously moveable). I don't know if it was something I played wrong for what I was playing at the time...

...but I stopped dead. I knew that chord in a different context. I didn't stop until I had figured out a passably good Stardust -- pretty much the way I still play it today, with that chord in two places (different frets).

Carmichael makes me proud to be a Hoosier.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: olddude
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 09:08 PM

first time I got laid ..
my skinny blond girlfriend bonnie
Crystal Blue Persuasion Hot hot summer night, she made it hotter !!

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: M.Ted
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 12:41 PM

I play that same chord at 7-9-8-7-7-x.

And don't forget fellow hoosier songwriters Cole Porter and Paul Dresser. Herb Shriner said, "I was born in Ohio, but I moved to Indiana as soon as I heard about it." As a young musician, I regarded Elkhart as a sort of Mecca--but it was soon supplanted by Kalamazoo.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: John Hardly
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 12:48 PM

Peru's just down the road from me.

I might even be so brash as to say that, though he doesn't belong in the same musical State as Porter and Carmichael, Mellencamp's a GREAT Hoosier pop music writer too.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: John Hardly
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 01:01 PM

Peru's just down the road from me.

I might even be so brash as to say that, though he doesn't belong in the same musical State as Porter and Carmichael, Mellencamp's a GREAT Hoosier pop music writer too

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 08:24 PM

ONE... MORE.... TIME!


As with pop music, you can just repeat the chorus forever at the end.

Subject: RE: Why We Liked Pop Anyway
From: Joe_F
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 10:45 PM

Dick Greenhaus: "I don't think anyone can be objective about what happened when s/he was a teen ager. The veriest crap sparkles like gold in reminiscence."

Hear, hear!

Fortunately or not, however, what happened to me when I was a teenager is not much like what happened to most other people, even in my generation. I went to a rather snobbish, isolated boarding highschool where radios & private phonographs were forbidden and almost all the music I heard came from people I knew personally & admired. (Some, I hunted up in library books & sang myself.) The unofficial music was mostly folk, and if some pop seeped in, it was because somebody who heard it on vacation liked it & learned it. (I supposed I could find out on the Web whose name the masses associate with "I was walking along, minding my business..."; to me it will always be a Phil Kopper song.) Even with respect to folksongs, origins were not much talked about; I found out years later that some came from Leadbelly, etc.

I have mixed feelings about all that, but I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.