flute playing tips

Subject: flute playing tips
From: Emmie
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 03:49 PM

As I am becoming addicted to this threading, I thought I would ask another question. I play the flute and the whistle and can do grace notes and slurs and things but I can't figure out how to make that sound that is like a warble or a gargle.How do you do that? Any other tips would be gratefully received.

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Uilleand
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 04:08 PM

I'm not sure this is what you mean, but there is a technique called 'fluttertongue'. At the same time you blow air through the instrument you flutter your tongue like in the pronunciation of an 'r' in Spanish. Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Emmie
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 04:40 PM

thanks for the tip. I think that is a kind of Jethro Tull sound for want of a better way to describe it. The warble sound I mean involves moving between notes and is very fast, you hear it a lot in Irish music. Never know it was called flutter tongue ha ha.

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Uilleand
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 05:04 PM

You may be talking about trills, turns, and/or mordents. That's just like extended grace notes. They are slurred and just played very fast.

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Beau
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 05:30 PM

Hi Emmie,

The ornament your are describing is called a "cran" which is a technique borrowed (as most flute and whistle ornaments are)from the piping tradition. Typically, this ornament is done only on the low D, and occasionally the low E on the flute or whistle. For the best results you need an instrument with what a friend of mine called a real good honk on it. In other words, it works best when you can sustain a good volume on the low end of the whistle. I have yet to satisfactorily do it on my flute yet, but mine is pretty quiet. I am days away from getting a Patrick Olwell flute which I am hoping will prove to be better able to get that warble you speak of.

The technique as it was described to me goes thusly:

First, since this is a long ornament, you want to use it to highlight long notes (probably half notes and dotted half notes). Second, it should be the low E or D that you are ornamenting. Give yourself a healthy lungful of air and sound the note (for this example we will call it a D)keeping a steady stream of air moving thru the flute (i.e. don't tongue). In rapid succession, you will raise and then lower first your left ring finger, then your right index finger and then your right middle finger. The trick here is NOT to raise the next finger before the preceding finger has dropped. Done properly, the flute will sound a rapidfire cascade of notes (A, G & F#) with the low D droning underneath them. This is one of the more complicated ornamentations, so remember to take your time, and practice it slowly. If you have access to a tape player with speed control, find some flute recordings and listen to them at half speed so you can hear the individual grace notes sounding. Get it in you head first, then get it in your hands. Let muscle memory take over. Experiment with cranning different notes, and in different places, keep what you like and chuck the rest. Just have fun with it and try not to get too frustrated. Good luck and write back and let me know how it goes.

Beau

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Emmie
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 05:45 PM

Thanks. Wow!! I'm off to practise, I'll let you know how it goes.

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Vixen
Date: 15 Jun 99 - 09:12 AM

This thread caught my attention because I have always wanted to play the flute. There is a long and complicated story behind why I learned guitar, piano, recorder, voice, and pennywhistle instead, but I won't tell that here. What I'd like to know is, now that I am on the brink of a purchase, what is a "good" middle quality flute, what should I look for, and how much should I expect to pay? Also, can anyone recommend a particular flute "method" series for me to start with?

Thanks,

V

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Beau
Date: 15 Jun 99 - 12:52 PM

Hi Vixen,

I got my first flute from a company in California called Lark in the Morning (they are on line). It is a tunable, keyless ebony flute. It cost me $300, and has been a very dependable instrument. There is also a flute maker named Casey Burns who makes reasonable priced instruments, but I didn't liek the sound of his. Too thin. Last I checked, Michael Copeland (he of the beautiful tunable pennywhistles) is back to making flutes. I have heard good things about his flutes. He's in pennsylvania (conshohocken). He's on line, too I think. Expect to pay in the thousand buck neighborhood. Patrick Olwell makes truly astonishing instruments, but he is expensive and has a long waiting list. (I got on when it was 3 years back in 1993, for a keyed flute. 6 years later I am still waiting, but he has decided to make me a keyless flute to play until the keyed one is ready.) Total expendature so far, 950$. Ultimately, I will end up paying about 1700$, but that is at 1993 prices. Now, they are more like 3 grand. Ouch!

Flute tutors: Timber by Fintan Vallely is a really good introduction. Also, there is a great book by Hammy Hamilton that I think went out of print. Lark In the Morning has a video that is fairly helpful.

Good luck!

Beau

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: alison
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 07:10 AM

Hi,

what sort of flute are you wanting to play? a silver (orchestra type) flute. Or as we seem to be assuming... a wooden traditional music type flute?

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Vixen
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 08:17 AM

Dear Alison and Beau--

I actually have a number of wooden wind instruments that I've always called whistles, because they have a fipple mouthpiece. To me, a "flute" is blown across an open hole. I also have what I call "pan pipes" though they're more of a toy (not very well-tempered: pitch is problematic). What I'm looking for, actually, is what Alison calls an orchestra flute. However, as a result of Beau's posting, I've been looking into "traditional music-type flutes."

Does that clarify? All help is, as usual, gratefully appreciated! Mudcats are the best, always!

V

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: alison
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 08:50 AM

Hi,

I play a concert flute (orchestral type), I also teach people to play....... and like a lot of things.. you get what you pay for........ there are cheap flutes that, yes you can learn to play on but you will never get a good tone........ and there are expensive ones that sound wonderful.... and there are lots in between.... my advice is go to a reputable shop with either someone who knows how to play one..... or get the assistant to demonstrate several...... appearance doesn't change much between them but tone certainly does.

I have been playing my current one (obscure German make) for the last 22 years and it cost 250 pounds sterling back then.....it has never given me any trouble. I have a friend who picked up a beautiful Yamaha flute for $250 AUS, in a second hand shop a few months ago... they probably cost thousands new. You can be lucky.

If you go for second hand.. check the pads don't stick and that all the little levers work.

Good luck

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 08:30 PM

.......or settle in for a long evening with a very small screwdriver, lots of patience and a steaming kettle! I went into the music shop in Exeter about seven years ago to enquire about having mine (silver plated Rudall Carte)repadded and was quoted 95 pounds, after picking myself up off the floor I asked how much were the pads, answer 5 pounds. No contest. I did it, some swearing was involved and at one time I thought I'd never get all those bits back in the right places - there are rather a lot and the parts don't resemble the whole in the slightest! I've done it a couple times more now - whenever the poor thing's had too much beer to drink (the flute not me though the two are probably related). Re. buying one, I'd say borrow one for a bit first, learn how to make a decent sound then you'll know what you're looking for when you try them. I had the greatest difficulty with my first saxophone, managed it OK but then tried a lovely Yamaha and it was like blowing a recorder in comparison!
Those fiddly blowing techniques come with practice & dexterity, don't try to force it, just keep playing and enjoying.
Jo
The kettle? Apart from the means of making copious cups of coffee, it's for bedding in the pads, works wonders even if you haven't replaced them!

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Vixen
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 10:03 AM

Well--

I have just picked up a Gemeinhardt flute for a 1-month trial. I get one lovely note from it when I blow across the mouthpiece, but no matter what keys I press, nothing seems to happen. I don't even know how to hold the blessed thing! But I'm off on my lunch hour to the local music shop for a book or two and to sign up for lessons! Whee Hah!!! I'm so excited I've got goosebumps!

V

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Vixen
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 08:33 AM

Wow! Am I having fun!!! What a great instrument! Anybody have any tips for keeping the thumbs from hurting??? My first lesson isn't until next Wednesday, but I'm already playing two songs ("Go tell Aunt Rhody," and "Danse De Hercules" [Tempo Geriatico, both!]) and can't wait 'til Wednesday to find out how to spare the bones in my thumbs. I've tried all sorts of positions, and can get some relief for the left thumb if I shift its position from time to time. The right thumb, though...Yow. Right on the bones. The girl (16 yo) I'm borrowing the flute from says it doesn't hurt her thumbs, and according to the pictures I'm looking at, I'm holding it correctly...If it's like getting guitar calluses, that's ok--just let me know and I'll stop whining!

Any ideas???

Madly Flauting,

V

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From:
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 05:32 PM

Hi y'all,

Myself, I play an ebony "Irish" flute. The end blown instruments that are either whistles, recorders, or flageolets. I have seen some really nice ebony pennywhistles made by Chris Abell. He also makes WOODEN boehm system flutes!

Wanna hear my horror story: yesterday I sold my old Lark in the Morning in anticipation of picking up my Patrick Olwell flute. IN 1994 I paid him $450 dollars and got on a three year waiting list for a wooden keyed flute (with 6 keys). We agreed I would pay $1650 total (the rest upon completion). Three years came and went. Nothing. I called from time to time to see what progress was being made, and he would put me off somehow. He seemed too busy making flute for the likes of Seamus Egan, Frankie Kennedy, etc. to be bothered with a little ole beginning flute player like me. But I was patient. Besides, I wasn't making that much money and the prospect of having to shell out another $1200 was daunting to say the least. But last year I got a really good job and I renewed my attempts to light a fire under him.

Three months ago he said he had finished my head joint and wanted to know if he could make me a keyless flute to play on until the keyed section was ready. I would pay him an additional $550 (the equivalent price of one of his keyless flutes). When the keyed section was ready I would trade the middle section for the keyed section and pay him the rest. I allowed as to how I would be amenable to that. Bird in hand, and all. I was to get it two weeks ago. Bupkus. Nothing. Finally yesterday he tells me I can come pick it up at his shop (only 30 minutes away).

So I pay him the money (cash, mind you) and he hands me a flute which looks like it was cobbled together at the last minute. The head and foot joints are new, but the two middle sections are obviously older wood. They don't match the color or grain of the other two joints. It was like he had the two middle pieces lying around and just used them instead of making me a whole flute. Which would be fine if they were in tune (which they aren't) and if I didn't think I would have to wait another year for the keyed section (which I probably will).

Okay, bad enough right? THEN he tells me that he feels he is losing money on this deal since he now charges up to $3000 for a keyed flute and wants to know if I will "meet him halfway" and allow him to charge me $2600 for the whole flute. He wants to jack up the price by a grand, after making me wait nearly six years for a substandard keyless flute!

AAARRRGGH!

Sorry for rambling. I just need to vent.

Beau

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: alison
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 12:43 AM

Hi vixen,

don't remember having sore thumbs... only thing I can suggest is don't grip it so tightly, & use the hollow between your lip and chin to balance the end.

Sorry to hear that Beau, what a rip off merchant....

Slaitne

alison

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Emmie
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 03:52 PM

Beau, that is really outrageous about your flute. I thimk you should tell that man where he can stick it!! Just to get back about making the "warbling sound" I have realised that what I was on about was infact a grace note but played with a different emphasis. I talked to the teacher at my class and am practising the sound now. By the way I had a go at the "cran" my god that is advanced stuff!! I think I am going to try and walk before I run. Useful for future reference though and also to impress people with my knowledge!!

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Beau
Date: 01 Jul 99 - 12:22 PM

Hi Emmie,

Glad to hear back from you. Sorry I haven't checked in in a while. Been real busy. Still haven't sorted out the flute mess, but I am enjoying playing the "new" flute I have. It plays beautifully. I can only imagine how the keyed flute will sound, when and if I ever get it. I am glad you are having fun playing. I'd like to keep tabs with you, just to see how you come along. If you ever wanna drop me a note, my e-mail is [e-mail]. I'd love to hear from you. Gotta run! Beau

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: Vixen
Date: 01 Jul 99 - 02:22 PM

Hi folks!

Beau--what a disaster! You have my sympathy! I'd be ready to "key *his* flute..."

Regarding my thumbs--they stopped hurting after about 4 days of playing about 20 minutes day. Now if I play more than 40 minutes, they get sore, but only for a little while. I think I have bony thumbs.

The up-side is, I love this instrument. I've had two lessons, and I'm having so much fun! I don't mean to brag, but I've learned about 10 simple songs (e.g. Twinkle Twinkle) and can play them fairly cleanly. Whole notes are tough because I seem to run out of air, and 1/8th notes are difficult because I'm not quick enough yet, but I'm working on it. I need to soften my attack, to get rid of an initial "puff" sound, but (unlike with my guitar at this phase) I can see little improvements every time I play. SOOOO Rewarding!!!!

V

Subject: RE: flute playing tips
From: alison
Date: 01 Jul 99 - 09:11 PM

hold some long low notes for as long as you can and try to keep the tone even.. that'll help your breathing..... I aways liked F to practice on. glad you'e having fun

slainte

alison