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Blues But Not

GUEST,Volgadon 29 Oct 08 - 11:03 AM
GUEST,Volgadon 30 Oct 08 - 06:05 AM
Will Fly 30 Oct 08 - 06:11 AM
GUEST,Gerry 30 Oct 08 - 07:15 AM
Will Fly 30 Oct 08 - 07:49 AM
Azizi 30 Oct 08 - 08:57 AM
Azizi 30 Oct 08 - 09:12 AM
Azizi 30 Oct 08 - 09:34 AM
Azizi 30 Oct 08 - 09:49 AM
Azizi 30 Oct 08 - 10:05 AM
GUEST,Volgadon 30 Oct 08 - 12:49 PM
bald headed step child 30 Oct 08 - 01:44 PM
Les from Hull 31 Oct 08 - 01:30 PM
Azizi 31 Oct 08 - 05:16 PM
GUEST,Volgadon 02 Nov 08 - 03:35 AM
Mavis Enderby 15 Feb 10 - 10:05 AM
Mavis Enderby 15 Feb 10 - 12:11 PM
celticblues5 15 Feb 10 - 08:52 PM
Mavis Enderby 16 Feb 10 - 03:25 PM
Mavis Enderby 17 Feb 10 - 04:37 PM
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Subject: Blues But Not
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 11:03 AM

I thought it would be interesting to start a thread about the 'blues' of different cultures around the world. I think that every culture has something similar. Music that expresses pain and longing, that grips and doesn't let go.
Rebetiko and fado are probably the best known, but I'll leave them to more knowledgeable posters.
The first kind of music I want to talk about is probably the most unusual, as it has no criminal or underworld connections.
Piyuts are Jewish paraliturgical songs, mostly written by medieval poets, but the tunes are folk tunes. The same tune could be used for many other songs as the words are what is important.
The main thread running through all of them is a sense of yearning, as well as a longing for forgiveness.

El Adon Al Kol Hamaasim.
A song extolling the virtues of the Lord.
www.piyut.org.il/tradition/192.html?section=morePerformances&currPerformance=433&playing=0

El Nora Alila.
Lord of Mighty Deeds is sung in supplication, to beg forgiveness on the Day of Atonement, before the Book of Life is sealed.
Sort of a last chance affair, the song expresses abject humility, that you know what you've done and don't even dare ask for forgiveness on your own merits, but beg that your brothers may be forgiven.
www.piyut.org.il/tradition/110.html?currPerformance=128

Yedid Nefesh.
One of the most important. Excellent information in English in that link, so I won't repeat it.
www.piyut.org.il/textual/english/16.html

Ye'iruni Ra'ayonai.
A man cannot sleep, but ponders the ways of the Lord and prays that the night will stand still and the dawn wait so he can continue to pray and ponder, pouring his heart out before it is time to deal with all the daily affairs.
The whole song is about longing for the Lord, longing to be in his presence.
www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/2584.html?currPerformance=3343

Ana Ve'ana Hoshia Na.
A Libiyan piyut, it pleads the Lord to save and bless.
Each verse uses a different title (Mighty, Blessed, Compassionate, that sort of thing) for the Lord, which ascends alphabetically.
www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/2475.html?currPerformance=3216

Im Ninalu.
A yemenite songwhich goes: even if the gates of the generous are closed, the gates of heaven are still open.
www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/117.html?currPerformance=430

Mezulzelet.
A Morrocan song.
www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/662.html?currPerformance=860

Finally, here is an example of a modern day piyut, that is, the melody is contemporary, the words I've mentioned above.
El Nora Alila - Meir Banai.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P0tnSgv-EE

This site is unbelievable. Hundreds of authentic recordings on top of all the texts.
www.piyut.org.il/english/

Anyway, would love it if people would contribute about other genres.


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:05 AM

Shanson is the Russian underworld and prison music.
The style owes a lot to French Chansons and to the Russian art music of the 19th century, as well as to tango and klezmer.
These are very popular, becuase at one point or another, a large segment of the Russian populatin has spent time behind bars, often for trivialities.

Taganka.
A love-hate ballad to the Taganka prison, one of the worst in the Russian Empire and Soviet Union, until Khrushchev tore it down.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFARFG4RYSQ

Here is a scene from the movie "Shtrafbat" about a penal battlaion in WW2. The penal battlaions were temporary formations made up of criminals, political undesirables and the disgraced. In the clip they found some moonshine and one of the Jews sings a shanson.
Here is a fuller version, slightly different.
www.nesueta.net/download/songs/raz_poshla_na_delo_berenson.mp3


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:11 AM

Volgadon - as a complete ignoramus about the stuff you've described, what part, if any, does Kletzmer play in all this?


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:15 AM

Interesting - when we sing El Nora Alila toward the end of Yom Kippur at our synagogue, the mood is very far from "abject humility." The tune we use is very upbeat.

Will Fly, klezmer has very little to do, directly, with what Volgadon is writing about. Klezmer is secular, piyutim are religious; klezmer is (traditionally) instrumental, piyutim are vocal. Today's klezmer bands do play vocal music, and some of it is certainly very sad, and maybe could be thought of as blues, but they don't do piyutim.


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:49 AM

Thanks for that, Gerry. I have to say that, secular or not, and whether instrumental or not, some klezmer music that I've heard does sometimes have a feel to it which is not a million miles away from a blues feel. Of course, if this thread is essentially about words and feelings, then instrumental genres of music will obviously be excluded...


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 08:57 AM

Volgadon ,here are the hyperlinks for those examples along with the descriptions that you wrote:

El Adon Al Kol Hamaasim.
A song extolling the virtues of the Lord.
www.piyut.org.il/tradition/192.html?section=morePerformances&currPerformance=433&playing=0

El Nora Alila.
Lord of Mighty Deeds is sung in supplication, to beg forgiveness on the Day of Atonement, before the Book of Life is sealed.
Sort of a last chance affair, the song expresses abject humility, that you know what you've done and don't even dare ask for forgiveness on your own merits, but beg that your brothers may be forgiven
www.piyut.org.il/tradition/110.html?currPerformance=128

Yedid Nefesh.
One of the most important. Excellent information in English in that link, so I won't repeat it.
www.piyut.org.il/textual/english/16.html

Ye'iruni Ra'ayonai.
A man cannot sleep, but ponders the ways of the Lord and prays that the night will stand still and the dawn wait so he can continue to pray and ponder, pouring his heart out before it is time to deal with all the daily affairs.
The whole song is about longing for the Lord, longing to be in his presence
www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/2584.html?currPerformance=3343

Ana Ve'ana Hoshia Na.
A Libiyan piyut, it pleads the Lord to save and bless.
Each verse uses a different title (Mighty, Blessed, Compassionate, that sort of thing) for the Lord, which ascends alphabetically.
www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/2475.html?currPerformance=3216

Mezulzelet.
A Morrocan song.
www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/117.html?currPerformance=430

[A]n example of a modern day piyut, that is, the melody is contemporary, the words I've mentioned above.
El Nora Alila - Meir Banai.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P0tnSgv-EE

This site is unbelievable. Hundreds of authentic recordings on top of all the texts.
www.piyut.org.il/english/

Taganka.
A love-hate ballad to the Taganka prison, one of the worst in the Russian Empire and Soviet Union, until Khrushchev tore it down.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFARFG4RYSQ

Here is a fuller version, slightly different
www.nesueta.net/download/songs/raz_poshla_na_delo_berenson.mp3


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 09:12 AM

Btw, here's how I make hyperlinks on Mudcat when I have already found the URL {address for a website}"

1.Go to the "Edit" feature [the second feature found on the tool bar at the top of the page]

2.Click Edit.

3.Click "copy" {found in the list of options that appear}

4.Copy the website's URL {run your mouse over the entire URL and click} Sorry I'm not sure how else to explain how to do this. But I remember that when I was learning how to do this that I had difficulty understanding how to do this part.

5. Click on "Make a link {blue clicky} that is found on beneath this box

6. Follow the instructions that appear. Remember that "paste" is found in the same Edit feature as "copy". Also, remember to copy all of the link that appears, including the http:// and this symbol at the end of the link > If you don't, your hyperlink won't work.

In addition, it's a good idea to test a hyperlink to see if it works before pasting it into your comment. Not that I do that often.

:o)


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 09:34 AM

This is off-topic, but I wanted to note that the "hit" contemporary African American gospel song "I Call You Faithful" composed by Donnie McClurkin uses a similar pattern for its verses as the description given for Ana Ve'ana Hoshia Na.
"A Libiyan [Libyan?]piyut, it pleads the Lord to save and bless.
Each verse uses a different title (Mighty, Blessed, Compassionate, that sort of thing) for the Lord, which ascends alphabetically."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YHnF9J-6Nc&feature=related
Donnie McClurkin - I call you Faithful (Psalms Hymns and Spiritual Hymns)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdtXGdK1MMA&feature=related
Donnie McClurkin - I call you Faithful 2 (Psalms Hymns and Spiritual Hymns)


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 09:49 AM

By the way,Volgadon, I don't agree with your definition that the Blues songs only express "pain and longing". For example, see this excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues :

"Although the blues gained an association with misery and oppression, the blues could also be humorous and raunchy as well:

"Rebecca, Rebecca, get your big legs off of me,
Rebecca, Rebecca, get your big legs off of me,
It may be sending you baby, but it's worrying the hell out of me."
From Big Joe Turner's "Rebecca", a compilation of traditional blues lyrics

Hokum blues celebrated both comedic lyrical content and a boisterous, farcical performance style. Tampa Red's classic "Tight Like That" is a sly wordplay with the double meaning of being "tight" with someone coupled with a more salacious physical familiarity. Lyrical content of music became slightly simpler in post war-blues in which focus was often almost exclusively on singer's relationship woes or sexual worries".
-snip-

But, putting that aside, I'm interested in reading examples that you posted and others posts about "Blues But Not" music from other cultures.

**

Also, Will Fry, with regard to your 30 Oct 08 - 07:49 AM comment, as I'm sure you're aware to quote a sentence from that article whose link I just gave}, "the Blues is a vocal and instrumental form of music". end quote Therefore, it seems to me that this thread could also feature examples of instrumental music.


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:05 AM

Here's a link to a video clip of the Malian guitarist/vocalist Ali Farka Toure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Nem-PNHLY

In this clip, Ali Farka Toure's talks about the African roots of Blues. His comments are translated into English and shown on the video. Corey Harris is the African American man who is learning from and singing with this great Malian musician/vocalist. A summary of this same clip with Toure's words translated into another language [?] indicated that this video is from the Martin Scorsese film "The Blues Feel Like Going Home".


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:49 PM

No, what I said about klezmer has nothing to do with piyutim, I meant Russian shansons. About a third of Odessa, a city on the Black Sea, was Jewish. Among them were many Jewish gangsters and they were often at the forefront of the underworld. Isaac Babel wrote some very good stories about their life and mentality. In those stories is a detail I found surprisingly modern. Benya Krik, known as the King, and his friends ride through the streets (this is 1910 or so) in a fancy new red car, playing the latest hits on a grammophone.
Another thing worth remembering is that because there was a lot of poverty, Jews who could play an instrument would sit out on the streets, waiting to be hired by anyone who needed music for a party or wedding. Most celebrations, Jewish as well as Christian, featured Jewish musicians. Very interesting cross-fertilisation.

Where piyutim are concerned they usually influenced klezmer, the musicians tried to imitate the sounds of the religious singers, but it was not unheard of to sing piyutim to a popular tune.

Absolutely fine with me to discusss instrumental music.

Thanks Azizi, you're a dear. I just can't get blickies to work on this computer.

You are right that blues aren't only sadness and pain, and neither is each and every song in the genres I've mentioned. I think that what they have most in common is the tough backgrounds they sprung out of.


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: bald headed step child
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:44 PM

Blues is the music of life,both good and bad. There is a lot of blues out there that celebrates the good and often comedic sides of life. Unfortunately the commercial aspects seem to focus more on the down sides. Many of the old country blues are very uplifting. Try listening to guys like Frank Stokes, Sylvester Weaver, Mississippi John Hurt, Lonnie Johnson (almost always a comedic twist even in darkest songs), on up thru the Chicago blues of the 50's and 60's.

Much of the music being discussed here is also music of life, hence the blues feel.

What you are discovering now, which most people do eventually if they have a somewhat open mind, is that there isn't as much difference in the various forms of music as the pop culture wants you to believe there is.

As many have said here before, there are only two kinds of music, good and bad.

Once you have come to this conclusion you are truly on the path to enlightenment.

This will only have a positive effect on your own music as you will now be able to draw more inspiration from all types of music, and quit all the petty bickering about the labels.

IMHO,

BHSC


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Les from Hull
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:30 PM

Azizi - sadly Ali Farke Toure died in 2006. His final album 'Savane' (made while he knew he was dying of cancer) is wonderful. His son Vieux Farke Toure plays in a somewhat similar style.

BBC report on the death of Ali Farke Toure

Here's a link to some other 'Mali Blues' performers


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Azizi
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 05:16 PM

Yes, Les, I was aware of that. But like other musicians, he lives on through his music.

Thanks for adding those hyperlinks to this thread.


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 03:35 AM

Ali Farke Toure is fascinating, and I think it's fascinating how Africa and America influenced each other back and forth. The music brought to Africa by Afro-American missionaries must have had a profound influence.


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 15 Feb 10 - 10:05 AM

I was trying to follow Guest Volgadon's links, as well as Azizi's fixes, but couldn't - so hopefully corrected links below. I'll have a listen now and hopefully add some more of my own later! Note that to get the Piyut links to play I had to click the "Quality sound" link (but that might just be my computer).

Pete.


Subject: Blues But Not
From: GUEST,Volgadon - PM
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 11:03 AM

I thought it would be interesting to start a thread about the 'blues' of different cultures around the world. I think that every culture has something similar. Music that expresses pain and longing, that grips and doesn't let go.
Rebetiko and fado are probably the best known, but I'll leave them to more knowledgeable posters.
The first kind of music I want to talk about is probably the most unusual, as it has no criminal or underworld connections.
Piyuts are Jewish paraliturgical songs, mostly written by medieval poets, but the tunes are folk tunes. The same tune could be used for many other songs as the words are what is important.
The main thread running through all of them is a sense of yearning, as well as a longing for forgiveness.

El Adon Al Kol Hamaasim.
A song extolling the virtues of the Lord.
http://www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/192.html

El Nora Alila.
Lord of Mighty Deeds is sung in supplication, to beg forgiveness on the Day of Atonement, before the Book of Life is sealed.
Sort of a last chance affair, the song expresses abject humility, that you know what you've done and don't even dare ask for forgiveness on your own merits, but beg that your brothers may be forgiven.
http://www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/110.html

Yedid Nefesh.
One of the most important. Excellent information in English in that link, so I won't repeat it.
http://www.piyut.org.il/textual/english/16.html

Ye'iruni Ra'ayonai.
A man cannot sleep, but ponders the ways of the Lord and prays that the night will stand still and the dawn wait so he can continue to pray and ponder, pouring his heart out before it is time to deal with all the daily affairs.
The whole song is about longing for the Lord, longing to be in his presence.
http://www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/2584.html

Ana Ve'ana Hoshia Na.
A Libiyan piyut, it pleads the Lord to save and bless.
Each verse uses a different title (Mighty, Blessed, Compassionate, that sort of thing) for the Lord, which ascends alphabetically.
http://www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/2475.html

Im Ninalu.
A yemenite songwhich goes: even if the gates of the generous are closed, the gates of heaven are still open.
http://www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/117.html

Mezulzelet.
A Morrocan song.
http://www.piyut.org.il/tradition/english/662.html

Finally, here is an example of a modern day piyut, that is, the melody is contemporary, the words I've mentioned above.
El Nora Alila - Meir Banai.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P0tnSgv-EE

This site is unbelievable. Hundreds of authentic recordings on top of all the texts.
http://www.piyut.org.il/english/

Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: GUEST,Volgadon - PM
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:05 AM

Shanson is the Russian underworld and prison music.
The style owes a lot to French Chansons and to the Russian art music of the 19th century, as well as to tango and klezmer.
These are very popular, becuase at one point or another, a large segment of the Russian populatin has spent time behind bars, often for trivialities.

Taganka.
A love-hate ballad to the Taganka prison, one of the worst in the Russian Empire and Soviet Union, until Khrushchev tore it down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFARFG4RYSQ

Here is a scene from the movie "Shtrafbat" about a penal battlaion in WW2. The penal battlaions were temporary formations made up of criminals, political undesirables and the disgraced. In the clip they found some moonshine and one of the Jews sings a shanson.
Here is a fuller version, slightly different.
(Couldn't do this link because the file isn't there any more)


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 15 Feb 10 - 12:11 PM

I should have stated above why I re-opened this thread - I was looking for examples of "blues" from around the world. Here's some of mine....

Macedonia: Esma Redzepova

Szelem Szelem

Morocco:

Gnawas home songs

Pakistan: Sain Zahoor

Allah Hoo

India: Rajrupa Sen

Bageshree

Mali: Tinariwen

Lulla

That'll do for now - lets hear some of yours.

Pete.


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: celticblues5
Date: 15 Feb 10 - 08:52 PM

Thanks to everyone for all of the great links & diversions!


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 16 Feb 10 - 03:25 PM

This is a really nice tribute to Ali Farke Toure - on Oud and (I think) darbuka

Bamako Blues

Pete.


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Subject: RE: Blues But Not
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 04:37 PM

African Blues on kora, sanshin, and tricone...


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