Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: GUEST,Charley O'Neill
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 01:25 PM

Just returned from a highly disapointing sunday at sheffield folk fest. 2 sessions and a singaround listed to be happening at 2pm, this is what I found between 3 and 3.30pm -

Kelham Island Tavern - Two blokes sat having a chat - instruments in cases

Fagans - Another two blokes sat, instruments in cases, one woman swanking off about her life, one bloke stating( when he could get a word in edgeways), ' we consider ourselfs to be the real festival'

New Barrack Tavern - Nothing.

People have stated on this thread that other nights were good, so what went wrong on the sunday , Where was everyone ??? I had travelled a fair distance for this. What went wrong ???

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: GUEST,Mortimer Planno
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 03:14 PM

Sounds like the organisers need to organise Charley...

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: Les from Hull
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 06:18 PM

As I've said on the main Sheffield Festival thread, we had a smashing time on Saturday at Fagans and the University Arms. I'm amazed that nothing happened on the Sunday. But there's no point in blaming the organisers. They provide a venue and give it publicity in the programme, but surely their responsibility ends there. Numbers help, but personally I've had some amazing sessions with 4-6 people. Of course, you need the right people.

For our own part, we left on Saturday evening because we wanted to go to the new monthly session in Hull. And we had another great time with songs and tunes, although there was only about eight of us.

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: r.padgett
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 04:05 AM

WEll I was there doing singarounds on Friday night in the University Arms with excellent singers including Dave Howdon, Tegwin, Dave from Rotherham, Sue, Iona and a few more

The few singers gave us all a chance to sing some songs

The Old Timey downstairs was well attended including my mates from Barnsley fc [String Theory]

Saturday in Fagans was packed to the gunnels!!

Sat evening early at University Arms led by Les and Maggie was brill and we finished in the Red Deer in freezing weather at 11.15

Kelham Tavern I believe was open until very late on Sunday am and was heaving

I went home for a bath! Sunday am and went to a brill song and music and song session at Wakefield (first in the month)in the afternoon

As I have said elsewhere Jim and his team did a great job in a short space of time. Hope this continues as a fixed date and 12 months now to muster the troops for a better well attended festival!!

Ray

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:45 AM

Sheffield FF has always been proud of it's fringe and as has been stated the 'Welcome Session' on Friday at the Barracks was well attended and the sessions on Saturday that I saw were excellent including leaving at 2am from Kelham Island Tavern. As for Sunday we provide the space and the venues. I can't make people go, but the platform is there. There is a problem that some people who come from afar pack up and go home (like Ray). There is perhaps a case for booking session leaders and perhaps we can look into that but there the factor is cost. Paraphrasing what Malcolm Douglas said in the other thread these are 'free' events so I think whinging about the organisers getting it wrong is not correct. We may have got some things wrong (but not much) but I don't believe that actively supporting the fringe and session events is one of them.

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 08:04 AM

I too travelled a fair way on Sunday and came away disappointed. But you can't blame the festival organisers, they put on the venues and it's not their fault if nobody turned up.

However it might have helped if the sessions had been a bit more targeted. Both kelham Island Tavern and New Barrack Inn were advertised as "mixed sessions", which frankly can mean anything. Last year I went to a fantastic English tunes session, English dance music seems to be very strong around Sheffield. Making it a bit clearer what was expected at each of the sessions might have encouraged people to go along.

But I agree with the OP's question, where was everyone? It seems particularly surprising as there is a strong session scene in and around Sheffield.

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:06 AM

I know that a lot of the English/French melodeon crowd were away, it's the downside of being on at half term. Crucible were on tour in Austria for example. Like I've said perhaps in future we will have to look at having a 'session leader' or a 'booked festival artist' who could draw in a certain crowd, but then you have that perrenial problem if the session is free who pays for the session leader.

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: Rapscallion
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:53 AM

Well, I was disappointed on Sunday, but for a different reason.
Went to the survivors session at the Hillsborough, where it appears that you have to be a good mate of the session leader to get a song or a tune - I got one song whilst others were given 5 or 6.
I suppose I could have elbowed my way in in one of the quiet spells, but I don't like to breach session etiquette.
If someone sets themselves up as a session leader then he or she should be looking at ways of welcoming people, especially newcomers (I don't live in Sheffield).
Like I said, a disappointment, and I wouldn't be in a hurry to repeat the experience.
On the good side, the festival was really good, especially the Sunday concert (probably where all the session customers were). Well done the Burton Street team, who made the whole thing work.

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: GUEST,sessioner
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:06 AM

ah, session etiquette. it's a tricksy beast. not all sessions have an etiquette whereby you are treading on toes if you start a tune or song without being asked... some session leaders expect that their job is to just gently keep things going - by starting things themselves or encouraging the people around them to do so if there are gaps but otherwise by just being there. and that might seem like they're favouring their mates.

yep, you'd hope that people would be welcoming. But one person's idea of welcoming can be another person's idea of overbearing. I know people who don't like going to sessions where they get 'put on the spot' by a gentle invitation to do a song, because it makes them feel under pressure to perform whereas they just want to join in at the back and only start something once in a blue moon in their own time.

that said, I wasn't there, so maybe the sheffeidl survivors was one of the unfortunate cases where it's a closed clique...

a suggestion though, if you find that sort of thing happens at another session you're at in future. Just quietly & friendlily (is that a word?) ask 'what's the etiquette here - do I just start tunes or wait to be asked or what?' and 99 times out 100 that'll help the leader and any others there realise that you're not feeling sure about whether you're welcome or not...

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: Rapscallion
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:12 AM

You speak words of wisdom, Sessioner.
I don't think I misjudged it, 'cos the leader did keep a pretty tight rein on things.
But I take your point.

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:33 AM

I'm not repeating myself. I don't run cliques but Shoz fails to mention that he didn't arrive till late. he didn't express any uspset before the end ,he carried on playing after the official end (it is a hotel and we have to repect that there are guests sleeping there) and he was rude to me on the way out

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:03 AM

Don't get drawn in Jim
These people who come along for nowt, sit down and think you uwe them the earth, and are rude to you as well should get Red Cards.
Maybe Shoz can do a better job eh! Maybe Shoz will help next year eh!
Stop your whinging Shoz

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:06 AM

Oops just noticed a spelling mistake. It should be owe not uwe
Les Worrall

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: MC Fat
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:06 AM

Suppose you're right Villan but even the barmaid commented as I was waiting for a taxi at how out of order he was but then I suppose she's a mate as well !!!

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: GUEST,No Fixed Abode
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:14 AM

Hi Jim,
       Thanks for last night we enjoyed the evening and it was nice to meet some people we have not seen for a long time. Sorry if we caused you some problems re Shoz I guess you can not please all the people all the time. Well done with keeping the festival going and see you somewhere down the road.

Una and Tony

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: Rapscallion
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:23 PM

Well, to answer a few of the above points -
-We didn't get there dead on the start, sure enough, but it certainly wasn't late.
-I don't think anyone owes me the earth, I'd just like a fair crack of the whip.
-I've been doing this sort of music a long time, including running sessions.
-Yes, I was rude, which perhaps isn't always the best way to react, but I was well p****d off by that time, and Jim could have picked that up. If you set yourself up to run a session, then run it.
- and perhaps I will help next year - If I'm made to feel welcome!

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: MC Fat
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:50 PM

I'm not going to get involved in a slagging match. If you (Shoz)feel that you didn't get a fair chance then it was not purpose it was by accident. But you are right that being rude to me was not the answer. I know one thing you won't be rude again to me. I will not respond any further to this thread

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:53 PM

>>and perhaps I will help next year - If I'm made to feel welcome! <<
Shoz, I am sure any organiser would welcome any help especially if they know how to MC at singarounds/sessions. I don't know anybody in the folk world that wouldn't welcome you with open arms and make you feel very welcome.
Your argument with Jim, is a personal thing and should as such be dealt with outside of this forum.
Cheers
Les Worrall

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 01:01 PM

There you go, people like you Shoz do nothing to keep organisers and helpers wanting to carry on doing these jobs.
I know that I can't please everybody at my club all of the time, but I will go out of my way to try and put things right for people who are not happy, if it is possible. What I won't do, is support them if they go around publically slagging people off who have given their time up to do their best to help everfybody else to hopefully have a good time.
At this moment in time, you probably represent about .005% of the people that went to Sheffield. You are skating on this ice.

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 01:21 PM

Running stuff is really hard. That's why I'm happy to let Maggie do most of the work if we're asked to run something! In a fair-sized singaround, you might get round the room once.

But on a positive note, if only two or three people turn up for a session, they should make a start. Then if others turn up they'll see something happening and stay. Otherwise they're only there for ten seconds, see there's 'nowt happening', and try somewhere else. And so there's people wondering the streets looking for a session, rather than getting in and playing.

If there's only two people, you can teach each other stuff, try out new things, attempt to resurrect stuff you did years ago, and meanwhile anybody sticking their head round the door will find something going on.

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 01:22 PM

Went to the Kelham for the Sunday afternoon session - arrived 1:40 only to be told the room was booked for a private party at 3:00. Posters on walls showed the folk session as 14:00 till 17:00 but altered in ink to read 13:00 till 15:00. Barman said this year's festival "was a joke - no-one turned up on Friday".

Walked up to Fagan's - saw Charley O'Neill there who didn't say a word but was able to pick up on me saying we considered ourselves part of the real festival (referring to the Whitby "fringe" and not to the Sheffield festival) but missing out on my wry smile and the nod to irony following my comment that according to the Whitby festival schedule we don't really exist.

And so on to the Fat Cat & back to the Kelham - a washout really.

Disappointed, but fair play to the organisers - not their fault.

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: GUEST,Mortimer Planno
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 03:15 PM

Oh Mr Jameswright with your oh so hilarious name and oh so smug and clever bit about being part of the real whitby (delievered with, da daah ! a wry smile no less!), aren't we the man! Where were your friends my friend ? Where were your friends ?

Subject: RE: Sunday at Sheffield , a disapointment !
From: GUEST,Whippet
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 04:27 AM

Sunday a dissapointment !!! Should have gone to the concert it was great. Followed by Johnny and the Prison didn't Help Boys free at the barracks and a great Survivors session at the Hillsborough. I don't know how Jim did it run a session and talk to the press bloke who was poncing about taking photos.