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BS: Teenager stoned: A Story, which beggars belief

alanabit 03 Nov 08 - 09:05 AM
Paul Burke 03 Nov 08 - 09:10 AM
Big Mick 03 Nov 08 - 09:13 AM
Bee 03 Nov 08 - 09:19 AM
artbrooks 03 Nov 08 - 09:21 AM
SINSULL 03 Nov 08 - 09:25 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 09:26 AM
Rapparee 03 Nov 08 - 09:35 AM
jacqui.c 03 Nov 08 - 09:39 AM
Midchuck 03 Nov 08 - 09:41 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 09:43 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 09:48 AM
Wesley S 03 Nov 08 - 09:57 AM
alanabit 03 Nov 08 - 10:05 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 10:06 AM
GUEST,leeneia 03 Nov 08 - 10:12 AM
Wesley S 03 Nov 08 - 10:12 AM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Nov 08 - 10:17 AM
Bee 03 Nov 08 - 10:20 AM
alanabit 03 Nov 08 - 10:20 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 10:21 AM
jacqui.c 03 Nov 08 - 10:23 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 10:25 AM
Wesley S 03 Nov 08 - 10:28 AM
Big Mick 03 Nov 08 - 10:28 AM
Manitas_at_home 03 Nov 08 - 10:29 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 10:29 AM
Little Hawk 03 Nov 08 - 10:31 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 10:32 AM
Wesley S 03 Nov 08 - 10:32 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 10:41 AM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Nov 08 - 10:41 AM
catspaw49 03 Nov 08 - 10:56 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 11:00 AM
bobad 03 Nov 08 - 11:03 AM
Little Hawk 03 Nov 08 - 11:19 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 11:19 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 11:20 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Nov 08 - 11:42 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Nov 08 - 11:43 AM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 11:51 AM
Little Hawk 03 Nov 08 - 11:53 AM
artbrooks 03 Nov 08 - 11:55 AM
Little Hawk 03 Nov 08 - 12:00 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 03 Nov 08 - 12:52 PM
Jean(eanjay) 03 Nov 08 - 01:38 PM
Big Mick 03 Nov 08 - 01:42 PM
CarolC 03 Nov 08 - 02:24 PM
Wesley S 03 Nov 08 - 02:32 PM
Big Mick 03 Nov 08 - 02:35 PM

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Subject: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: alanabit
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:05 AM

As our bombs and rockets rain down on Muslim families in more than one country, I doubt whether these people need any lectures on morality from us. However, this story beggars belief.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:10 AM

Horrible. Not Islamic. Men asserting authority over women.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:13 AM

Friend Alan, I am beyond speechless. This barbarism is beyond rationalization under any circumstances. Anyone who makes any correlation to any other war, or act by a government, or in any way attempts to mitigate this cruel murder is beneath contempt.

I find myself sitting here with tears running down my face thinking of the last hour of this child's life.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Bee
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:19 AM

I agree essentially with Paul. All around the world are cultures which do not value women, and treat them cruelly in many cases. Some of them are Islamic, some not.

But Islam bears some of the blame here, because Islamic religious leaders do not speak out and condemn it.

I read about this yesterday, and like Mick was moved to tears. Thirteen years old! A thousand people watched!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:21 AM

The Somali jihadis somehow make the Taliban at their worst look good.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:25 AM

Her last hour. Her last few days. There is nothing to say.


How do families protect their children in a world like that.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:26 AM

How do we know that Islamic leaders do not speak out and condemn it? One thing I've definitely noticed about claims like that one is that they are usually not true. Usually Islamic leaders have spoken and continue to speak out against it, but nobody has bothered to notice that they have.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:35 AM

And nobody seems to listen.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:39 AM

How awful. We should be grateful that we live in a society that protects us from this sort of abomination. IMHO fundamentalists of any stripe are the biggest threat to the wellbeing of any country.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Midchuck
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:41 AM

These are not human beings. Period. They have been born human, and rejected their humanity by their own choice.

P.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:43 AM

I wouldn't say nobody listens, but certainly the Muslim-hating West and the perpetrators of crimes like that one do not listen.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:48 AM

It hasn't anything whatever to do with politics. It has to do with not being willing to stand by and watch people spread hate. Certainly the crime that is discussed in the opening post is a horrendous one. But an even bigger crime and tragedy is when people generalize the crimes of some people and hold an entire group responsible for them. I would have thought that any moral person would know this.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:57 AM

Speaking up is NOT enough. What's called for is to stop the stoning.Stand in front of the stones being thrown if need be. So in my eyes these "leaders" should accept part of the blame. It was a stupid cruel waste of an innocent life.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: alanabit
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:05 AM

"Inside the stadium, militia members opened fire when some of the witnesses to the killing attempted to save her life..."

There were not only bad people in that stadium.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:06 AM

My last post was in response to a post that has been removed. I don't want people to think I just threw that comment in there for no particular reason. A Mudcat moderator has been removing my posts in explanation of my last post, apparently for personal reasons, and not because of any infractions of Mudcat rules.


How can people who are nowhere near the scene of that crime be expected to stand in front of the stoners? And why were the people posting in this thread not standing in front of the stoners and making it stop? Why do we only generalize the crimes of people who call themselves Muslims but not any other group? The religion being practiced by these particular barbarians is Islam. There are barbarians committing horrendous crimes who belong to other religions, too. Let's not use this crime as an excuse to justify and commit further crimes.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:12 AM

I doubt if Islam or any code of behavior, no matter how bizarre, had anything to do with it.

The al-Shabab militia wished to send the people a message 'Do not complain to anybody of any crimes by our members, or you will suffer for it.'

It was an act of oppression, pure and simple.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:12 AM

Make us aware of crimes like this from other religious groups and we'll object to those too. This is on a case by case basis { stupid is as stupid does - F.Gump } . But a defense of these people - if it should be considered a defense at all - goes hand and hand with the type of folks who believe "My country right or wrong".


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:17 AM

"Inside the stadium, militia members opened fire when some of the witnesses to the killing attempted to save her life, and shot dead a boy who was a bystander."


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Bee
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:20 AM

CarolC, you seem not to be reading posts which actually have pointedly noted that Islam is not the only group that treats women badly.

If this were a Hindu honour killing, it would be condemned, along with whatever it is in their culture which condones such acts.

If this were an honour killing or acid attack in Brazil, it would be condemned, along with the woman-hating male culture that supports such acts.

In this case, Muslims killed this child and used Islam as an excuse.

But Imams and Muslims have access to the internet as we do, if not in Somalia, certainly everywhere else, yet I have found one Imam or Mullah speaking out about this kind of crime online, just one. They should be crying out in loud choruses about such evil, not meekly sitting back and saying nothing.

I have found one Australian Islamic religious leader speaking out about the treatment of women.

http://www.islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1663&Itemid=96


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: alanabit
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:20 AM

I was not there. I have on occasion stepped in to stop an act of bullying. Whether or not I would have the magnificent courage of those, who tried to stop this atrocity, I would hesitate to boast.
Fortunately, very few of us are ever called to respond to a situation of horror on this scale. It is not fair that we should ever have to. It is even less fair to abandon this child to her fate. I have never been asked to face that sort of test. I don't feel smug about it though - not at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:21 AM

Nobody's defending the people who committed the crime, which I would think is quite obvious by the language I've been using when referring to the crime and the people who committed it.

The people I am defending are the more than a billion other people, who did not commit this crime, who are being held responsible for it.

When we in the US hear people denigrating all Black people because some Black people commit crimes, we quite rightly call the people who do that "racists". I would say it's no less racist to hold all Muslims responsible for the behavior of some Muslims.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:23 AM

But an even bigger crime and tragedy is when people generalize the crimes of some people and hold an entire group responsible for them.

I'm sorry Carol, but you are doing the same thing when you say I wouldn't say nobody listens, but certainly the Muslim-hating West and the perpetrators of crimes like that one do not listen.. I am part of the west but I don't hate Muslims and nor do the majority of the people that I know. I hate injustice and cruelty wherever it arises and wish that I had the courage to do more than just feel dismayed when things like this happen.


Amnesty said al-Shabab had created a climate of fear in which government officials, journalists and human rights activists faced death threats and killing if they spoke against the militia.

When it is the men with the guns who are perpetrating these outrages it is difficult for others to stand against them. As was stated in the article that I read, these 'men' opened fire on those who protested, killing one person. It is the governments that condone these actions that have to be held accountable but, it seems, unless there is a perceived financial advantage, other governments will just turn their backs and walk away.

It must take a lot of courage for any one person to stand against the might of a force of armed men. How many in Germany were against the treatment of the Jews and other minority groups, but were afraid to speak out in case they were treated in the same way? How many in the Soviet Union looked the other way? How many of us, if faced with a similar situation, would stand in front of the stones or guns or hide a fugitive from an oppressive regime?

Right now there are no reports of Islamic leaders condemning the murder, but that may be because there is only a basic report coming out, it seems, via Amnesty. What more we will hear will depend upon how important the media consider this story to be. Unfortunately. my cynical side thinks that this will, like other stories of its type, be a short lived item with very little follow up so we will probably never find out the degree of disgust and disapproval displayed by Islamic leaders.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:25 AM

What I am criticizing is the statement that no Islamic leaders have criticized this crime. I would challenge anyone who would make such a statement to take the trouble to find out what Islamic leaders have had to say about it before making such a statement (I've never run across anyone who says things like that who has actually bothered to find out what Islamic leaders have said before they make such a statement).

The fact is, most of the time, Islamic leaders do criticize such crimes, but we in the West aren't interested in hearing them when they do that, because it doesn't conform to our prejudices about Muslims.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:28 AM

So far I haven't read any posts on this thread that would attempt to blame this on Muslims in general. Just whatever animals were there at the time. And yes - I will label the people who did this as animals - no matter what twisted religious beliefs they may hold.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:28 AM

THIS THREAD ISN'T A DISCUSSION ABOUT ANTI MUSLIM PREJUDICES!!! IT IS ABOUT A LITTLE GIRL KILLED BY THUGS, AND A THOUSAND FOLKS WATCHED IT HAPPEN.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:29 AM

Or because we don't read Arabic newsgroups?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:29 AM

How do we know there are no reports of Islamic leaders criticizing this crime? Really... how do we know this?

Every single time I have seen someone make a statement like that one, and I've taken the time to find out, I have found that the person making such a statement simply hasn't bothered to find out. It doesn't help that our media consistently refuse to report when Islamic leaders condemn such acts. But that is a manifestation of the anti-Muslim prejudice that I am talking about that we see here in the West.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:31 AM

Ignorance and fear have been problems in this world ever since Og bashed in Mog's head with a club, back in 986,000 B.C.

If you hear about it, it's very upsetting. Now just stop and consider about all the similarly horrible things that happened today which you will probably never hear about. They won't make the news. They will have been crimes committed by Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, atheists, agnostics, soldiers, police officers, criminals, guerrilla fighters, Americans, Russians, Peruvians, men from any variety of places, and probably even a few women, and maybe some children.

And you won't hear a peep about 99% of them.

And then, on the other hand, a simply vast number of people will behave decently and lovingly today and will harm no one.

You won't hear about them either, will you?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:32 AM

When people make prejudicial statements about Muslims in a thread like this one, the thread becomes about anti-Muslim prejudices. Any time people us a thread like this one to promote anti-Muslim prejudices, it becomes about anti-Muslim prejudices.

Perhaps if more people would examine their prejudices, threads like this one could just be about the crime and not about the group to which the criminals belong.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:32 AM

So far that antimuslim prejudice hasn't shown up on this thread has it?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:41 AM

Yes it has. When people say that no Muslim leaders have spoken up about this crime, the person saying that is displaying an anti-Muslim prejudice. One has to pre judge the Muslim leaders of the world in order to imagine that one knows that they have not spoken up about it.

As I said before, every time I've seen people say that Muslim leaders have not spoken up about a particular horrible thing, and I've then taken the trouble to find out whether or not this is true, I have found that the person making that statement has simply made it up out of thin air, without ever bothering to take the time to find out whether or not Muslim leaders have said anything about it. Because invariably, I have found that Muslim leaders have unequivocally condemned the act in question.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:41 AM

"KILLED BY THUGS, AND A THOUSAND FOLKS WATCHED IT HAPPEN. "

or, putting it another way,

"Killed by armed thugs, who fired on people from the crowd who tried to stop it happening, and killed at least one of them."


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:56 AM

A very sad thread in many ways...............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:00 AM

Yes it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: bobad
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:03 AM

Is stoning women to death, mandated by Koran or Islam?
Pooja (Who am I?) | Apr 30 2007

Women and girls in Iraq live in constant fear of violence as the conflict intensifies and insecurity spirals. Within their own communities, many women and girls remain at risk of death or injury from male relatives if they are accused of behavior held to have brought dishonor on the family.

Recently, in Bashika, Mosul, hundreds of men beat and stoned a 17 year old woman named Du'a Khalil Aswad to death, in a gruesome example of collective 'honour killing'. The woman, a member of the Yezidi religion, which is practiced by Kurds in Northern Iraq, ran away from her family to join an Arab Muslim man with whom she had fallen in love and had been meeting secretly, but who rejected her. Damned under the 'honour' code, for running away, for choosing outside her own community and for being ultimately rejected, Du'a had nowhere to go.

For a couple of days, she had put up with a local Yezidi tribal leader but to live in peace was not in her destiny. She was abducted and brutally murdered in front of hundreds of men by her relatives — who stripped her body, beat and kicked her, and killed her by crushing her body with rocks and concrete blocks. The police officials too participated in the disgusting communal murder.

Stoning: Is it the part of culture in Iraq?

Death by stoning is slow and painful. Islamic code prescribes that 'the stone should not be so big as to kill the offender with one or two stones' and 'nor should it be as small as pebbles'.

The Islamic groups resort to every possible method to terrorize Iraqi women. Today, stoning is only practiced in order to maintain the submission of its women and those in the lower cast. Also, those impoverished or socially unimportant are punished by stoning.
stoning_22_50

Silent Killings

There are frequent reports of 'honor crimes' in Iraq - in particular in the predominantly Kurdish north of the country. Most victims of 'honor crimes' are women and girls who are considered by their male relatives and others to have shamed the women's families by immoral behavior.

Often grounds for such accusations are flimsy and no more than rumor.

What is the situation like?

The government's failure to protect women, and enforce laws against criminals, has created a situation where thousands of women become victims of so called honor killings. Violence has risen as a result of patriarchal and religious traditions.

In the 21st century, for such crimes to be carried out in broad daylight is not only a shame on society as whole, but most of all, it is a shame on a government that is unable to protect women from such inhumane and backward practices.

With officials largely silent on the issue except to deny that it occurs, it is unclear how many more women in the province are stoned to death.

The barbaric and violent practice of stoning will continue as long as people will water the cult of Islam, MuHAMmad, which has put his hands everywhere especially in this inhuman practice of 'stoning women to death' and in imposing uncivilized Sharia Law upon human culture.

It forces me to ask a question, can women in Muslim countries ever expect to breathe in the air of self- approbation?

http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/is-stoning-women-to-death-mandated-by-koran-or-islam/


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:19 AM

Stoning is clearly mandated in the Old Testament by Mosaic Law for certain specific crimes, as defined in that ancient society. The books of the Old Testament are part of the sacred scriptures of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

When Jesus gave his teachings he supplanted the old "eye for an eye" philosophies of the Old Testament with his new doctrines of forgiveness and nonviolence...which very clearly would forbid stoning people.

Christians claim to follow Jesus' teachings. If they did, they would definitely not stone people, burn them at the stake, or do other horrible things to them, but some Christians have historically done many such horrible things.

Muslims revere Jesus as a true prophet of God and claim to believe in his teachings. If they did, they would definitely not stone people or do other horrible things to them, but some Muslims have historically done many such horrible things.

The Jews (as a religious community) never accepted Jesus as a true prophet of God and do not include the New Testament in their teachings. Therefore it appears to me that the Jews are the one group among those 3 great religions who could, if they so desired, stone people without clearly violating their own stated religious beliefs and the teachings they claim to follow!

Ironical, isn't it?

The fact is, a lot of people in this world think they are following the teachings of some religion or other, but all they are really following is what some local authority figure or their own selfish nature told them to do. They are hypocrites...or they are just plain ignorant...or they are both. Probably both, I'd say.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:19 AM

From the Global Campaign to Stop Killing and Stoning Women...


# Have Islamic authorities spoken out against stoning?

Many Muslim clerics, religious scholars, and political leaders have spoken out against the practice of stoning, deeming it "un-Islamic." Ayatollah Nasser Makarem Shirazi, Ayatollah Yousef Saneii and Ayatollah Seyyed Mohamamd Mousavi Bojnourdi have all spoken out against the practice. Some Muslim clerics such as Ayatollah Hussein Mousavi Tabrizi argued that stoning should be stopped as a response to the demands of modern age. Others decry that any punishment, including stoning, that defames, embarrasses or depicts a bad picture of Islam is harmful to the religion and should be discontinued. Nobel Peace Prize winner Shirin Ebadi, in her discussion of the practice, point out that many religious leaders see stoning as an "endorsement" law that can be changed, as opposed to a "constitutional" law; and that many other Muslim countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia, Tunisia, Morocco, and Algeria do not condone stoning.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:20 AM

From the same site...

# Is stoning a tenet of "Islamic" law?

Stoning is a highly debated issue among Muslim religious clerics, and there is no consensus within the global Muslim community over the validity of the practice as "Islamic Law." Although there is no mention of stoning in the Quran, many Muslim clerics cite instances in the Hadith, the acts and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, when discussing the legitimacy of the practice of stoning in Islam. In the Hadiths (the collected traditions of the Prophet), the Prophet Muhammad is said to have prescribed stoning explicitly for Jews who had been found guilty of adultery. Although the Quran (24:2 Surah al-Nur) only stipulates 100 lashes for adultery, the Prophet Muhammad reportedly had a number of men and women stoned in his time, hence giving evidence to those who argue for the codifying of this punishment as Shariah, or Islamic Law. After the Prophet Muhammad's death, the first generation of Muslim legal scholars included adultery as one of the six major offences in Islamic law for which the penalty is fixed by God and Quran (Hudud.) However, because the justification for stoning relies completely on the Hadith and not on the Quran, many scholars question its label as Hudud, the very definition of such being "punishments mandated by God." Such inconsistencies between the Hadith and Quran have been a source of confusion and remain controversial to this day.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:42 AM

She wasn't an adulterer. She was 13 years old and she was raped - by three men.

How is that just cause for her to be executed in the most inhuman way possible?   

What happened to the rapists?

What 'beggars belief' even more than the story is that a woman can choose to ignore the heinous crime that's been perpetrated by these fruitcake animals, and expend a huge amount of energy blathering on about how prejudiced we all are.

Some people have a very weird, skewed view of the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:43 AM

should have said inhumane, not "inhuman".


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:51 AM

Nobody in this thread has said that there was any just cause for what was done to this girl. To suggest otherwise is dishonest. Nobody in this thread has made any excuses whatever for the behavior of the people who committed this crime. To suggest otherwise is dishonest. Nobody in this thread has ignored the crime that was done to this girl. To suggest otherwise is dishonest.

The question of whether or not what was done to the 13 year old girl is a right or wrong is an entirely separate question than whether or not people are using this crime as an excuse to promote hate towards people who had nothing whatever to do with the crime in question.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:53 AM

Well, I know we all share your disgust at what happened, Backwoodsman, but what now? We are not in any position to influence what goes on among some ignorant and fearful tribal people in Somalia, are we?

All we can do is yell about how awful it makes us feel and express our horror and disbelief that people can act that way. Then what?

And whatever happened to those pirates who were holding that ship for ransom, by the way?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:55 AM

Among the comments (admittedly cherry-picked) in Al Jazeera's coverage of this story:

TG Ethiopia
                
It is really very sad to hear a 13 year old raped girl stoned in the name of faith. I am also sorry on the Aljzeera it self, for the media which transmits a suside bomb blasts on daily basis like a soccer game the coverage given for this inoccent girl was was much more lower. I call all muslim brothers & sisters to disclose and strongly oppose this crime & inhumen act in the name of Islam.


Yaska Somalia

S/alaykum, I am from Somalia and what has happened in Kismayo was not fabricated and it was true. That little innocent girl was stoned badly to death by militias who are practicing unfairly. I am not aganist my religion Islam but strongly appose the way they have carried out the execution. She was stoned by fifty men to death and taken out from the execution hole 3 times to make sure her death. I was so heartbroken by what has happened in Kismayo.

Mohamed Somalia
                
Shocking and Bizzare that such brutal acts are happening now. The girl was 13 and there is no islamic that will allow an innocent child to brutally killed! I am somali and I know some of the relatives of that innocnet child who knew the girl from her bith. I hope those bastards including the devil Sheikh who claims to have judged the girl with her consent will be punished. The men who raped the girl are happily going in the streets of kismaayo coz they come from majority & an armed clan.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:00 PM

This is just another case of a bunch of heavily armed bandits doing what they want to do in a lawless land, putting the onus on someone else shifting the blame. It is not indicative of anything about religion, it is indicative of lawlessness itself and the exercise of brutal power by brutal men.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:52 PM

This crime has nothing to do with Islam. It's an example of what happens when people with low regard for humanity achieve positions of power. The rapists were militia members, the girl's family complained, the militia used Islam as a smokescreen to "punish" the girl. Their real message was simply "We're in charge and we'll do anything we damned well please. Don't like being raped? See how you like being dead." If they weren't nominally Islamic, they would probably have killed the girl anyway. Their "religion" simply gave them a way to do so in a spectacular fashion that allowed them to get their message across to thousands instead of just a handful.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 01:38 PM

I feel so sad having read this.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 01:42 PM

There are people in this thread who always find a way to twist the thread around to them and their agenda. Not once has this person expressed outrage at the death of a 13 year old little girl, for the crime of allowing herself to be raped by criminal thugs. Not once has this person mentioned her anger at 1000 people standing by, nor at the "jihadi" that claim to be doing this to enforce the will of a Supreme Being. Instead, this person, in typical self centered fashion, wants to turn this into a discussion that suits the politic that this person professes.

This isn't about anti Muslim prejudice. It is about the death of a little girl.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 02:24 PM

I have no agenda other than to speak out against hate. If some people have a problem with that agenda, I would say that says far more about them than it does about me.

My feelings about what happened to the girl in question in this thread are my business, and I don't share the need that some people apparently have of making a big public show about them. Some people seem to think that the only way to have feelings is to make a big exhibition of them.

But when I see people using human rights issues as an excuse to promote hate, I consider that them moment when it is my responsibility to say something about it publicly.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 02:32 PM

Carol - What happened to that little girl is everyones business. She's a perfect example of a victim of hate. You can see that can't you??


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Subject: RE: BS: A Story That Beggars Belief
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 02:35 PM

That is the phoniest post yet. Read the title of the thread, and the first post. You immediately hijacked the thread, and have made only passing comments as to the girl, instead turning it to the same old crap. No one on this thread was promoting hate, but you are using a tragedy, and a crime by thugs, to attempt to further your agenda. And once again I point out, you have not once made a comment about the poor little girl.

I have said my peace, and am done with this thread.


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