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Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights

Big Elk 05 Nov 08 - 09:55 AM
Sooz 05 Nov 08 - 10:03 AM
Vic Smith 05 Nov 08 - 10:17 AM
GUEST,WorldlyWise 05 Nov 08 - 10:24 AM
GUEST,No Fixed Abode 05 Nov 08 - 10:38 AM
SunrayFC 05 Nov 08 - 10:47 AM
Big Elk 05 Nov 08 - 10:49 AM
theleveller 05 Nov 08 - 11:02 AM
Acorn4 05 Nov 08 - 11:03 AM
Dave Sutherland 05 Nov 08 - 11:18 AM
wysiwyg 05 Nov 08 - 11:30 AM
The Villan 05 Nov 08 - 11:55 AM
Banjiman 05 Nov 08 - 12:58 PM
SunrayFC 05 Nov 08 - 01:33 PM
Leadfingers 05 Nov 08 - 02:20 PM
GUEST,Howard Jones 05 Nov 08 - 02:28 PM
Terry McDonald 05 Nov 08 - 02:56 PM
Tim Leaning 05 Nov 08 - 03:03 PM
GUEST 05 Nov 08 - 04:41 PM
The Villan 05 Nov 08 - 04:43 PM
Girl Friday 05 Nov 08 - 05:07 PM
Bernard 05 Nov 08 - 05:08 PM
Anne Lister 05 Nov 08 - 05:16 PM
Bernard 05 Nov 08 - 05:28 PM
The Sandman 05 Nov 08 - 06:14 PM
GUEST,Howard Jones 05 Nov 08 - 07:26 PM
Bernard 05 Nov 08 - 07:39 PM
John MacKenzie 05 Nov 08 - 08:00 PM
Big Al Whittle 05 Nov 08 - 08:25 PM
Bernard 05 Nov 08 - 08:50 PM
Sorcha 05 Nov 08 - 09:01 PM
Melissa 05 Nov 08 - 09:05 PM
M.Ted 05 Nov 08 - 09:37 PM
Surreysinger 05 Nov 08 - 09:41 PM
Gervase 06 Nov 08 - 03:24 AM
GUEST,Suffolk Miracle 06 Nov 08 - 04:41 AM
GUEST,Howard Jones 06 Nov 08 - 04:44 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Nov 08 - 04:57 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Nov 08 - 05:03 AM
The Villan 06 Nov 08 - 05:05 AM
Surreysinger 06 Nov 08 - 06:19 AM
Bernard 06 Nov 08 - 06:48 AM
squeezebox-kc 06 Nov 08 - 06:55 AM
GUEST,MC Fat 06 Nov 08 - 07:16 AM
Big Elk 06 Nov 08 - 07:40 AM
The Villan 06 Nov 08 - 07:42 AM
GUEST,MC Fat 06 Nov 08 - 07:47 AM
Will Fly 06 Nov 08 - 08:05 AM
Folk Form # 1 06 Nov 08 - 08:11 AM
GUEST,Suffolk Miracle 06 Nov 08 - 08:20 AM
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Subject: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Big Elk
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:55 AM

I am a committee member and bookings officer of a folk club and some time MC.

On Monday we had the delight to hear Clive Gregson.

Regrettably I had the situation where 2 people had traveled over 2 1/2 hours each to support our booked guest.

These visitors had asked for floor spots only. Having investigated fully I find that both visitors had issued gig notices on their My Space blogg spots, one traveling from Bournemouth to Chesham and one from Stoke on Trent. The club has a policy of no support acts.

No doubt these visitors' blogg spots will soon include the clubs name as a past booking.

This situation left me with an embarrassing situation, the person who had requested a spot first finished the second half the last booked in finished the second half.

I turned away local singers who support the club = pissed of regulars

I badly upset of one of the visitors, who by my own admission I was rude to, but I tend to respond as I am treated.

Is this a new trend or have other people had the same experience.

I am in sales and I don't mind a pitch, but working on the Cuckoo Principle is for me a step to far. What is even more exasperating is that as a club we regularly book emerging artistes to do a feature night and we have established artistes who got their first gigs on the folk circuit with us this way.

Please play the game. If you want a gig contact folk club organisers, send a CD (not everyone has the internet), come on a singers night, people will afford a decent spot if you can show you have made an effort, but please do not create bogus support gigs.

Do it the right way and "if you are any good" you will get a real gig.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Sooz
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:03 AM

I quite agree. We have two pre-arranged floor spots on a guest night so everyone knows what is happening. When anyone I haven't heard of gets in touch for a booking I suggest they turn up on a singers night when they will get a fair hearing. After that, it depends if our regulars like them (or not).


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Vic Smith
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:17 AM

I had a similar experience last year when we booked Dave Swarbrick. Understandably, the evening was a sellout and there were a number of people there with instruments who obviously had it in mind to play if there was a spot, but I announced early on that on this occasion, unusually, I had arranged floor spots in advance as I wanted to present the highest standard that I could and on this occasion there would be no newcomers to the club.
The next day I received a MySpace request for friendship to the club's MySpace from a duo and when I looked at their site, I saw that they had advertised that fact that they were appearing at the Royal Oak in Lewes on the night that we had booked Swarb! They were not even claiming that they were playing a support spot.
I emailed them to asked about the honesty of this claim and they replied saying that they had turned up prepared to do a floor spot so they thought this was OK.
However they had not:-
* contacted me in advance saying that they wanted to play
* approached me on the evening for a floor spot
* asked whether they could advertise themselves as appearing at our club


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: GUEST,WorldlyWise
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:24 AM

Isn't the dark art of marketing all about lies and exaggeration, anyway?


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: GUEST,No Fixed Abode
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:38 AM

Maybe if it becomes a problem you could "name and shame" here on mudcat...guess that might stop this happening

Tony


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: SunrayFC
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:47 AM

naming and shaming is not always the best approach, as sometimes people consider they are justified in thinking there is a chance of a song spot.

At the Sunray we make it very clear that "walk-ins" are rare. We usually book all the slots well in advance. And this usually results in an excellent, well balanced evening.

Now I am sure (and I know) this doesn't go down well with some people. But we made a conscious decision and we are sticking with it.

And it seems to be working.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Big Elk
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:49 AM

Its not a question of name and shame. Its a question of people who aspire to be a proffesional being proffesional. There are lots of people with Talent who never make it. The marketing and selling is about proffesionalism and not selling yourself short or over selling.

Those with little tallent and good marketing frequently come and go in a brief flare of a spluttering flame.My Space is a tool and like all tools needs to be used with care and a mind for saftey, so that it does not turn round and hurt you when you least expect it.

The best way to get a name is to go out there and blow peoples socks off. Keep doing that and you will get bookings. Do good bookings and you get invited back, the name gets arround and you prosper.

Old fashioned I know, but good enough for the likes of Spires and Bowden, Show of Hands and Lau.

Big Elk


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:02 AM

We did a spot on the singer's stage at Cambridge FF a couple of years ago and were a bit embarrassed that we seemed to be the only 'amateurs' and the only ones who hadn't got a CD to push. The couple on after us later put on their website that, amongst their past gigs, they had played Cambridge Folk Festival.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Acorn4
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:03 AM

I think this has been touched on a bit in the "Folk Club Manners" thread.

In a way, it's bandwagon jumping as these people know that they will be performing in front of a bigger audience than they could ever hope to gather themselves, courtesy of the pulling power of the main guest.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:18 AM

I have to admit that prior to moving to the Midlands I was unaware of the practise of "booking floor spots". However if approached the answer is always the same at our club; everyone is welcome and we will do our greatest endevour to give you a spot(although on a packed guest night the chances are it will be only one item)as long as time allows. Thankfully it is a long time since I have been cornered by someone who has been miffed by being missed on such a night.
Leveller makes a valid point I have have seen recent biogs where artists claim to have supported a major name by virtue of playing at the same festival although not necessarilly on the same day.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:30 AM

In the US-- if I understand what happened to you-- there is nothing lower than a "booked no-show," ESPECIALLY if advertising has already been done. Unless there is a really grand reason for the no-show-- death, ER, ice storm preventing travel-- a no-show is expected to furnish a replacement for you to approve, and if they don't, word does go around-- tactfully-- what they did. One way it goes around is that bookers call an artist's past bookers to check reliability before offering a gig.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: The Villan
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:55 AM

All my support acts know well in advance, and it is very clear on Faldingworth Live website.
However, I must admit I do not check to see if the support acts state that they are supporting a main guest. Maybe its something I have to do as an organiser in future.
Walk ins do not happen at Faldingworth,no matter how good they are, unless of course the support act does not turn up.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Banjiman
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 12:58 PM

Les,

You'll be pleased to know that both Wendy's website and MySpace state 30 min supporting Bram Taylor at Faldingworth on Nov 15th, we tend to be pretty careful about this....... It is more difficult to describe the exact circumstances of your appearance at a festival though.

You can't really describe your place on a festival bill in the space allowed on MySpace (you know 50 mins between Blue fox & The Old Hens..... doesn't really work!)

Like Faldingworth I think KFFC is unlikely to have this problem as we don't do floor spots or "walk-in" supports. They are all booked well in advance.

Paul


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: SunrayFC
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 01:33 PM

Taking this one step further....I always look for new talent for the club and sometimes rely on "where they have recently played" and/or "who they have supported."
If people are not honest about their gig list, I run the risk of being misled.

I am particularly interested in the person who traveled from Bournemouth, as it is in my bailiwick.

And we always look for support artists to work with our excellent line up for the future.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 02:20 PM

Phoning / Contacting a club that you intend to visit is perfectly acceptable IF you are travelling any distance ! At least ,IF you have booked a Floor Spot , you know you are not wasting your time and money and being told you cant get on the list .
But putting a Floor Spot on My Space as a Gig is (IMNSHO) Not On .


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 02:28 PM

Just leave a comment on their Myspace page and show them up for the prats they are.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 02:56 PM

Tricky one - I simply put places where I'll be playing on the 'upcoming shows' bit, but where I say 'supporting Les Barker' at Ringwood Folk Club in January, it means just that. We, the Warwick Slade Collective, are the support act to Les, just as we were to Isambarde at Wessex Acoustic in August. At Milford on Sea, also in early January, we are the 'booked act.'


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 03:03 PM

Never thought of that.
Gonna go check me My space see If I am being misleading.
I mostly dont bother as we only play when our turn comes round.
But I do sometimes put that we will be playing at such and such and the date bu it isn't meant as a claim to be guesting and we dont actualy do gigs as we dont consider that we would be good value for paying customers is just a fun thing for us.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 04:41 PM

Phew think we are ok.
Villan get some great guests at his club and because he is kind,(and I cried a bit)he has let us play sometimes.
See I am sort of braggin online but not claimin anything more than what happened so I guess that is ok?


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: The Villan
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 04:43 PM

Tim
You can come on as a guest but you don't fool me LOL :-)


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Girl Friday
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 05:07 PM

I thank Big Elk for this thread as it has raised a point that has been puzzling me and one that I do need advice on from someone more qualified. We are club organisers and perform floor spots only. However, we were sought out by a London Club that have a policy of booking their floor singers, and calling them support acts. I have noticed this system popping up at a lot of other clubs too.Therefore, we say we have supported...
My partner has a very talented 15 year old son who wants to play professionally. He finalised in the New Roots Competition. Amongst his prizes was a 30 minute support spot at Redbourn. He then entered BBC Radio 2 Young Folk Award, got through to the semi-finals, but failed to go further. The selected finalists, though all quite young, had "Supported" this, that, and the other superstar. To raise Ben's profile I have made him a Resident at our Folk Club and Dartford Folk Club (his local club) have agreed that he can do several floor spots there, so can we say then, that he has supported x, y, and z ?

Clarification please, from someone who knows.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Bernard
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 05:08 PM

At Lymm we use a pool of 'residents' for support for guests, and only very occasionally allow someone to do a 'pre-raffle-ite' spot after the interval.

If a guest brings a friend along and asks if they can do a spot we will try to accommodate them, but our rule for a guest night is simple... the audience have paid to see the guest, so we must make sure we don't detract from that in any way.

I do remember a couple of years back that Allan Taylor brought a rather promising fiddler with him... Tom somebody or other... and we let him do a 'floor spot'. Oh yes... McConville...

Seriously, though, we've also had a 'floor spot' from Bob Fox (he was Vin Garbutt's 'driver' one time!) and a few other lesser-known names, but we would never suggest that they had been invited as 'support', and would take a dim view of them using that as publicity, just as Bob and Tom would probably be affronted if we suggested they had been doing support spots in our publicity.

I can understand people wishing to use club appearances as publicity/recommendation, but they should always seek permission from the club organiser, and clarify what they whould be saying.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Anne Lister
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 05:16 PM

If I'm visiting an area I will generally contact a club to see if a floor spot is a possibility, hoping the organiser will realise it's with a view to a gig in due course. It wouldn't occur to me to put that down AS a gig, or a support act, however, but I have seen it on other peoples' promo.

Anne


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Bernard
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 05:28 PM

That's fair enough, Anne - a professional approach that organisers would respect.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 06:14 PM

I think its the biggest load of bollocks I have ever heard,as far as I am concerned there is a difference between a floor spot,and a support act.
a floor spot is generally two or three songs,[ and unpaid].
a support act is half an hour,and I as understood it paid.[or should be]
anyone that puts foor spots in their publicity in an attempt to kid future organisers is dishonest.
call me old fashioned,but I think it is sad day,and a sad reflection of the current scene,when people indulge in this chicanery.it reflects the worst aspects of the pop scene.
I agree with Ann Lister,and that would be my Modus Operandi too
Girl Friday,I think you are making a mistake.,if support acts have become floor spots, and floor spots become support acts where is the kudos,no one is fooled.[please dont be offended,you asked for an opinion.
Personally I prefer to do floor spots,at clubs that have booked me in the past,as a way of saying thankyou.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 07:26 PM

I agree with the Captain. Another rule of thumb is, if you have ask to perform it's a floorspot.

To be a support act you would have to be invited in advance, and be advertised as such in the publicity. It should probably be paid, although in some circumstances it might be done just for the publicity.

A floorspot is never a "gig" and should never be described as such, and to try to claim some reflected glory from the booked guest who happesn to be on that night is just dishonest.

In my experience proper support acts are fairly unusual on the folk scene, most clubs seem to manage well enough with residents and floor spots not to need them. Or more likely, they can't afford to pay two guests on a single evening. Either way, anyone claiming to do a lot of support acts is probably being misleading.

Girl Friday, doing regular floor spots at a club will be good experience but worthless as publicity, he should follow Tabster's advice and go round a lot of clubs doing floor spots, making sure they're aware that he's hoping to get a gig out of it (without being too pushy)


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Bernard
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 07:39 PM

Yes... I'm doing 'support' for Chris While and Julie Matthews on Friday 7th November at Maghull Town Hall, which is part of the annual 'Maghull Day of Folk'. It's an advertised booking (I'm named on the flyers and website), and I'm being paid.

At Lymm, on the other hand, when I do 'support' for a guest (in my role as a 'resident'), it's unpaid - but then I don't pay to get in, either. Sometimes I'm even doing sound at the same time!!

It seems fairly clear cut... and a lot of it boils down to good manners.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 08:00 PM

If you're booked by the club in advance, not by yourself, and you get paid an agreed fee. Then you are a support act.
If you turn up announced or unannounced and sing unpaid floor spots, then you are just Tom Dick or Harry, with a big head, and an over inflated sense of your own importance, not to mention abilities.

JM


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 08:25 PM

What we're all dying to know is how you get to be one of the important ones. Its nothing to do with entertainment value. It nothing to do with the ability to fill a room on your reputation, Its nothing to do how many records you've sold. Nothing to do with getting good reviews in the few magazines where its not some sort of crummy media fix.

Its certainly nowt to do with getting a good reception when you turn up to do a floorspot.

When you've done with bleating about people who travel miles to work for you for nothing. Look at it from other side of the window.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Bernard
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 08:50 PM

I've been waiting forty years to be an overnight success...!


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:01 PM

The more of these folk club threads I see and read, the gladder I think I am that we don't really have them here! What a MESS!


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Melissa
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:05 PM

that's exactly what I think, Sorcha..


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:37 PM

I am having a difficult time understanding how one finds enough time in a evening to schedule two sets from a featured act, an opening act, and a few hat-in-handers playing three songs each--


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:41 PM

Interesting thread. It brings to mind one evening at Whitby Folk Week this year. A young man turned up with guitar on the door at the nightly Folk Club. On that occasion the MC for the night was Doc Rowe. Before the start of the evening the young man handed over a wodge of flyers advertising his gig list (which was exceedingly long) ; during the course of the evening, like everyone else who had put their name on the list, he performed one item with guitar accompaniment,(he was a good guitarist, but only an average to middling singer) and eventually left somewhere around three quarters of the way through the evening, He was not one of the four or five named artists on the so-called "bill" during the evening.

When proceedings finished, Doc happened to pick up one of the gig listing flyers ... on which it was found that the stranger had put down two entries for Folk Week. The first of these, on the day of the Folk Club event, showed him as gigging in the Main Tent at Whitby; the entry for the next day showed him as in "the Folk Tent". Much hilarity ensued in the room, and a certain amount of inevitable disbelief in the truthfulness of the rest of the very, very long list of "gigs". I suppose the moral of the story might be that, if you're going to tell porkies like that, at least make sure they're half way believable ones . Me personally, I'm still trying to work out where the Main Tent and Folk Tent at Whitby are ...

Personally I'm amazed (perhaps I'm too honest or too trusting) that anyone would seek to describe a floorspot, whether pre-booked or not, as being a support act. I'd always understood that to be something more substantial and advertised as such, as already argued.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Gervase
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 03:24 AM

The more of these folk club threads I see and read, the gladder I think I am that we don't really have them here!
But it's easy to make a folk club wherever you are in the world. Just put two cats in a sack with a terrier, chuck in a bottle of beer and a banjo, and shake well. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 04:41 AM

When Meatloaf and Harry Cox performed at the Imaginary Folk Club, both of them phoned me up and asked me to appear on the same night. I can legitimately advertise myself as a support act to both.

When Meatloaf and Harry Cox performed at the Imaginary Folk Club, Harry phoned me up and asked me to appear on the same night. I can legitimately advertise myself as a support act to Harry but not to Meatloaf.

When Meatloaf and Harry Cox performed at the Imaginary Folk Club the organiser asked me to do a spot, but without consulting either performer. I can legitimately advertise myself as a support act at concerts at the Imaginary Folk Club, but not using either person's name.

In all other circumstances I can legitimately advertise myself as a pretentious prat trying to look tall by scrambling onto the backs of giants.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 04:44 AM

"Much hilarity ensued in the room, and a certain amount of inevitable disbelief in the truthfulness of the rest of the very, very long list of "gigs".

Exactly, it's counter-productive. It will soon become very clear that the "artist" is bullshitting, and it won't do their "career" any good.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 04:57 AM

Well, anyone following another thread will know that at Swinton we have guest nights and singers nights. On a singers night we will accomodate everyone, even though there are so many on some nights they only get one or two songs each, so we will ignore singers nights. That leaves guest nights. We do not have 'support spots', Ie nothing advertised, although at times I have incorrectly refered to them as such. Just floorsingers.

Just as Bernard says the main point on a guest night is to try and get as much of the guest as possible so we have just 15 or 20 minutes in both halves in which to put on floor singers. We have no set 'policy' so it is rather complex but basicaly I will try to accomodate anyone new or who has travelled far, provided we have not already filled the floorspots with club residents. If anyone rings up and asks in advance I will try to make sure they get on. If anyone does not get on and complains I ask them to come back on a singers night where we will ensure they perform.

Back to topic - I would not see anyone advertising themselves as being on at the club as a problem necessarily. Provided they get bums on seats, realise that the extra money they bring in goes to the main artist and understand that they are only getting 2 songs at the most!

Hope this helps

DeG


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 05:03 AM

Oh - and that they pay their entry money as well:-)

D.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: The Villan
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 05:05 AM

We put on 1 support act, at the beginning and they get 30 minutes.
We always start promptly at 8:00pm.
The rest of the evening is for the main guest.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Surreysinger
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 06:19 AM

Villan - that sounds exactly what a support act should be ... certainly not a floorspot!!


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 06:48 AM

Okay, we've established there's a difference between floor singers and support/resident acts. What works for one club may be a disaster at another.

No-one has the right to decide what's best for a particular club other than the people who run the club, tempered by what their audience wants. It's certainly impertinent for someone who doesn't know the club to pontificate on 'rights' and 'wrongs'.

What an audience thinks they want, and what they really want, can be two different things, too! Sometimes the organiser has to go out an a limb (Lymm?!) and present a show. Persuading people to come to see something they think they won't like can be tricky...

It's just like the old 'I don't like Guinness, but I've never tried it' syndrome...


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: squeezebox-kc
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 06:55 AM

Years ago at the Singing Jenny Club Huddersfield Hamish Imlach turned up as booked guest and asked if the guy he brought with him could play a spot= Christy Moore rest is history. on the other hand Paul Simon turned up for a floor spot one night and the list was full


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 07:16 AM

I've heard about Hamish turning up with Eric Clapton as well and Eric being refused a spot. On the other hand at Newcastle Polytechnic Folk Club I refused Richard Digance a spot, he had been asked earlier and told the MC to f*ck off so when he decide he wanted to sing we told him exactly the same and a similar thing happened at Aylesbury with John Ottway


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Big Elk
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 07:40 AM

To pull back to the core of my original thread.

All singers should always be accommodated if feasible.

If a guest brings a singer with them. Fine accommodate if possible.

What stated me on this thread was people who had effectively invited themselves to the club who's diary page showed their visit as a support act booking.

A support act or a featured singer who has "been invited" and normally paid, no problem and we will stick them on our website as well.

To MC fat I am trying to work out who you are, especially as I could have claimed to have supported both Richard Digance and John Ottway in Aylesbury, using some people's doubtful yardstick. Are you the Scottish ex librarian?

Balance to all please discuss don't slag off, it's not nice.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: The Villan
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 07:42 AM

Well put Bernard


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 07:47 AM

I am the Scottish ex librarian Big Elk (who is you ?) The Richard Digance thing was in Newcastle. John Ottway was at the King's Head Aylesbury.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:05 AM

Simple rules I follow:

1. I never ask for a floor spot at a club with a booked guest act unless I know the organisers and I've been told in advance that it's OK.

2. Where I want to do a singers' night floor spot at a club I've never been to before, I always contact the organisers in advance to see if it's OK and to find out the "form".

3. If a floor spot seems to have gone OK, I give my details to the organisers so that, if they want to have me as a support or a guest act, it's their choice. Sometimes this pays off with a booking - sometimes it doesn't.

4. I never advertise floor spots I've done.

If you're keen to get on the circuit, as it were, it can be a hard slog sometimes, so I can understand why people make more of themselves. But, as has already been said it's counterproductive, in the end, to be a bullshitter.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:11 AM

Floor spots is a tradition that should be allowed to die. I am fed up of going to folk clubs to listen to such and such artists only to have to wade through a bunch on non-entities before I get to them.


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Subject: RE: Bogus Support Spots on Guest Nights
From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:20 AM

Guests is a tradition that should be allowed to die. I am fed up of going to folk clubs to listen to folk music only to have to sit through an overpaid undertalented selfopinionated non-entity instead.


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